Would you want Ben Simmons on the Celtics?

Would you take Ben Simmons on the Celtics?

  • Yes, for any deal not involving the Jay’s

    Votes: 39 18.1%
  • Yes, but only for Smart and filler/picks

    Votes: 71 33.0%
  • Yes, but Jay’s and Smart are off limits

    Votes: 30 14.0%
  • Not interested at any price

    Votes: 68 31.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 1.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 1.4%

  • Total voters
    215

BigSoxFan

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This is purely a hypothetical exercise since there is a 0.000001% chance Morey would deal him to Boston. But, given what we’ve seen from this saga, how interested would you be in having him on the Celtics? Feel like there is a decent chance of polarizing responses here so here we go…
 

bankshot1

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A few weeks ago I posted a hyothetical Smart/filler trade in the Simmons thread, and my original thought was it would solve Philly's problems immediately, yielding them a PG who plays great D, who can shoot 3s, and is a dynamic player with a lot of intangibles, least of which is carrying a chip on his shoulder with something to prove, while the Celts might have a higher potential ceiling with Simmons and the Js, all dependent upon whether Ben can spread the floor and shoot beyond the paint.
 

JCizzle

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I’m not the biggest Smart fan, so I’d definitely do it for something at that price. No chance of happening.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Simmons makes $31.6M, meaning the Celtics would need to ship out $25.2M in salary to bring him in, and they would have to commit to paying the tax. The only way that makes sense is if Simmons is Celtics star #3 and ther goal is to win with the Jays and Ben.

Let's say Ime says "yes, I can win with that!"

The Celtics would need to ship out $25.2M in salary.

Here is how I would do that:

Josh Richardson ($11.60) + Juan Hernangomez ($7.01) + Enes Kanter ($2.64) + Bruno Fernando ($1.78) + Grant ($2.61) = $25.64 M.

I think I'd do that deal if Philly would take it. I assume Philly would pass, but I'd take Simmons if Ime wanted him and Philly would taker that offer.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The Jays and Simmons would win championships. I don't care if Simmons never shoots anything but layups. Their defense would be redonkulous. Sign me up.

edit: Simmons, Jays, TL, and Horford with PP, AN, and RL coming off the bench? That would be so fun to watch.
 

JM3

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I would consider Smart + filler + picks, but it depends what kind of picks & who the filler is.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Smart+JRich+Juancho plus one first is where I'd be. Simmons immediately puts you in title contention, so I'd be willing to give up Nesmith or Romeo as well, just on a value level, if it wasn't Philly we're trading with. Don't want to see one of them killing us for the next however many years.

But yeah, if he's still available come January when Marcus can be traded, get it done Brad.
 

moondog80

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No, but only because of his salary. If it was just a matter of giving up Smart and a protected pick, I'd be all over it. But I'd be terrified of the downside of being committed to that contract.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I don't think there's any restriction on trading Smart. According to this website - https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/09/players-who-cant-be-traded-until-december-15-5.html - that restriction only applies to FAs who sign with a team.

For the Cs that would be Schroder and Kanter.
Spotrac has him as untradeable until January 17. I was going off of that. No idea which site is right here.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/

Edit: fell down a Google hole and Forbes and Masslive both say he can't be traded until January as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisgrenham/2021/08/17/what-does-marcus-smarts-contract-extension-mean-for-the-boston-celtics-future/

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/08/how-celtics-trade-options-are-impacted-by-luxury-tax-restrictions.html
 

Cellar-Door

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Spotrac has him as untradeable until January 17. I was going off of that. No idea which site is right here.
Yeah December 15 is the day for guys who got signed in FA, Smart is January because of when he signed his extension.

No, but only because of his salary. If it was just a matter of giving up Smart and a protected pick, I'd be all over it. But I'd be terrified of the downside of being committed to that contract.
I wouldn't worry too much about the money, you're breaking close to even year 1, and while 2-4 you're paying more, you were going to be over the cap anyway, and the only way it's a truly bad contract is if he falls off quite a bit, in which case you get free space a year earlier than Smart which is nice since it lines up with the player option Tatum is going to decline.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Spotrac has him as untradeable until January 17. I was going off of that. No idea which site is right here.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/

Edit: fell down a Google hole and Forbes and Masslive both say he can't be traded until January as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisgrenham/2021/08/17/what-does-marcus-smarts-contract-extension-mean-for-the-boston-celtics-future/

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/08/how-celtics-trade-options-are-impacted-by-luxury-tax-restrictions.html
Thanks, I sit corrected and I finally found the applicable rule. Apparently, if a team extends a player so that the contract is for more than 3 total years or more than 5% raises, the team is prohibited from trading that player to get around the "extend and trade" restriction. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q95

Typically that period is six months. It looks like that this season the deadline was shortened but I can't confirm the date (I note that the MassLive article says "end of January.").
 

Cesar Crespo

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The Jays and Simmons would win championships. I don't care if Simmons never shoots anything but layups. Their defense would be redonkulous. Sign me up.

edit: Simmons, Jays, TL, and Horford with PP, AN, and RL coming off the bench? That would be so fun to watch.
It'd be pretty on D. I wonder how Simmons and TL would work on the court together.

But yeah, anything but the Jays all day every day.
 

JM3

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What's the best anything but the Jay's offer?

3 1sts, 3 pick swaps, Smart, TL, PP, AN, RL & BERGARIN?

I'm out on that, so I can't be clicking that option.

Smart + JRich + Jabari + lottery protected 1st? Super in.
 

Cesar Crespo

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well yeah, I wouldn't do that. I was thinking non ridiculous offers.

Smart, TL and a pick, sure.
 

JM3

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I'm a bit confused about what salary # to use for the extension guys. ESPN trade machine has Smart at $14.3m & TL at $3.7m.

Obviously if that's accurate, that's not close to enough $.

RW 4/$48m kicks in next year & same with Smart 4/$76m.

Even using the '22/'23 #s that's still only a combined $27.3m.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm a bit confused about what salary # to use for the extension guys. ESPN trade machine has Smart at $14.3m & TL at $3.7m.

Obviously if that's accurate, that's not close to enough $.

RW 4/$48m kicks in next year & same with Smart 4/$76m.

Even using the '22/'23 #s that's still only a combined $27.3m.
Smart will be his salary.
TL is a poison pill, he counts as his base salary going out (3.7M) for the Celtics, but as the average of all years incoming for PHI.

So Smart TL would need Juancho and about... 2.7M? more filler.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Smart will be his salary.
TL is a poison pill, he counts as his base salary going out (3.7M) for the Celtics, but as the average of all years incoming for PHI.

So Smart TL would need Juancho and about... 2.7M? more filler.
Yeah, I'd still do Smart, TL, Juancho, Grant and a pick.

Juancho and Grant are the definition of salary filler to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, I'd still do Smart, TL, Juancho, Grant and a pick.

Juancho and Grant are the definition of salary filler to me.
Yeah I would too, I think Grant isn't enough, but then again, if he isn't you could add something like Jabari for Paul Reed
 

Van Everyman

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Not that any of this is reality based anyway, but Jabari was waived yesterday. Assuming his salary doesn’t count.
 

Sprowl

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“Not interested at any price” is the vote leader? What planet am I on?
It looks like Smart + filler / picks is in the lead by a nose.

That's my choice, anyway. Simmons would be an excellent third star to complement the Jays -- he loves to set up shotmakers, he's a defensive savant who can switch onto anybody anytime, and he doesn't want to shoot the ball.

Make that: absolutely refuses to shoot the ball.
 

radsoxfan

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“Not interested at any price” is the vote leader? What planet am I on?
The planet where Ben Simmons is due 145M over the next 4 years, hasn't gotten any better since his rookie year, still can't shoot, refuses to work on his game, and has quit on his team. I don't deny there is still some upside there, but there is serious downside too.

If you looked purely at his on court current value and ignored his career trajectory and off court weirdness....he is barely worth his contract. Throw in the extra nonsense, Hard pass. Unless you are dumping some mediocre contracts on Morey, no reason to take on Simmons.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The planet where Ben Simmons is due 145M over the next 4 years, hasn't gotten any better since his rookie year, still can't shoot, refuses to work on his game, and has quit on his team. I don't deny there is still some upside there, but there is serious downside too.

If you looked purely at his on court current value and ignored his career trajectory and off court weirdness....he is barely worth his contract. Throw in the extra nonsense, Hard pass. Unless you are dumping some mediocre contracts on Morey, no reason to take on Simmons.
I find it hysterical that people have no problem paying that contract to their young stars with the hopes he grows into a Top 20-30 player yet Simmons is run out of town and not wanted by many for already being at that level. Strange times from my seat.
 

Euclis20

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I dislike Simmons' current and future prospects as much as anyone, but a 6'11 25 year old who averages 15/7/7 and plays 1st team level D would get a max contract from any team in the league with the cap space. Even with his depressing lack of offensive improvement, history of vanishing in the second round of the playoffs and clear attitude issues, he's a top 3 player on just about any team in the league.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I voted yes for any deal that doesn't feature either Jay. I assume this whole thing is predicated on both being onboard with Simmons and that they are fine with anyone else going out. I'm a process person so if buying low on Simmons fails because his shooting reticence is an ongoing issue, I will live with the outcome.
 

Sille Skrub

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I find it hysterical that people have no problem paying that contract to their young stars with the hopes he grows into a Top 20-30 player yet Simmons is run out of town and not wanted by many for already being at that level. Strange times from my seat.
The dude is a malcontent due a ton of money with a phone in his shorts at practice that wouldn’t engage in the fourth quarter of playoff games. I find it hysterical that anyone would want to give up any serious capital for the guy.

We just went through the Kyrie nightmare, nobody wants that again. And on top of whatever is going on in his head, the lack of any serious offensive improvement in four years is a huge red flag.
 

lovegtm

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Ben Simmons wasn't a malcontent until his coach and the franchise player threw him under the bus and basically demanded he be traded.

If you can acquire him for any reasonable non-Jays price, you do it. That's an incredibly easy core to slot different players in on the defensive side. On the offensive side, you just need to not base things around a high-volume post player and you can make it work.

You couldn't do this all regular season, but Simmons-at-center death lineups would be elite on both ends, against all but a couple matchups.

Is there any significant way in which Ben Simmons is worse than Draymond Green, aside from the couple unguarded 3s Draymond takes per game that teams are happy to give him? I'd trade for 4/$147M of young better Draymond in a heartbeat, provided that my team wasn't built around a posting center.
 

lovegtm

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The only thing in all this, as much as I'd like to get Simmons, is I don't see how someone like Minny doesn't top any offer the Cs make. Just Russell + picks/swaps seems better for the Sixers.

I guess if Nesmith or Langford just came tearing out of the gate there might be something interesting, but I don't see that happening to anywhere near the degree required.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The dude is a malcontent due a ton of money with a phone in his shorts at practice that wouldn’t engage in the fourth quarter of playoff games. I find it hysterical that anyone would want to give up any serious capital for the guy.

We just went through the Kyrie nightmare, nobody wants that again. And on top of whatever is going on in his head, the lack of any serious offensive improvement in four years is a huge red flag.
I wouldn’t give up serious capital either. The question in the poll was whether you would want Simmons on your team under any circumstance. The kid obviously had a rough time in the playoffs last year which was followed by his star center and head coach behind a mic throwing him under the bus…….I wouldn’t call him a malcontent but someone who is desperately wanting out of a situation where he isn’t supported and being held hostage by Morey.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I dislike Simmons' current and future prospects as much as anyone, but a 6'11 25 year old who averages 15/7/7 and plays 1st team level D would get a max contract from any team in the league with the cap space. Even with his depressing lack of offensive improvement, history of vanishing in the second round of the playoffs and clear attitude issues, he's a top 3 player on just about any team in the league.
I agree with you and HRB. The NBA is a talent league, and while there's lots of questions about Simmons they don't change that he is a top-end talent and performer even with all the shortcomings.

The NBA is different, in particular, than the NFL on this point---I truly do believe a guy with Simmons' profile who is a WR or CB can be a legit no-go for an NFL team. But in the NBA, smart teams virtually never pass on talent because most of winning a title is about your top 3-4 guys abilities.
 

Rustjive

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It's pretty funny to not at least offer a Smart-based package when so many of the criticisms of Smart actually point to people just wanting him to be Simmons in essence:

- "Smart sucks at shooting, people don't even guard him tight, I'd rather him not shoot because he takes shots from the Jays"
- "It's so important for your point guard to be able to attack the rim and Smart just doesn't have a good first step"
- "Smart guarding 2-5 is nice but he doesn't have the quickness to match up with opposing guards"

This isn't to say that Simmons is an upgrade on Smart in every single way - just that sometimes the thinking focuses only on the negatives and it's hard to see the player you actually have. That and Simmons probably represents a bizarro worst-case 'be careful what you wish for'.
 

Jimbodandy

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"Smart plus" solves a problem for both teams. They get rid of Simmons' softness and bring in a guy from the other end of the spectrum. And he'll shoot. We get a taller, more athletic defender who's a much better passer and doesn't need shots. I'm getting a semi just thinking of the transition opportunities.

As long as the "plus" isn't too stupid, LFG.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I find it hysterical that people have no problem paying that contract to their young stars with the hopes he grows into a Top 20-30 player yet Simmons is run out of town and not wanted by many for already being at that level. Strange times from my seat.
Ben Simmons is the JD Drew litmus test. People who think Ben Simmons wouldn't get a max today are casual fans or something. It's comical.
 

bsj

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I defer to those who know Simmons better than I. I honestly don't know much about his game except people say he doesnt shoot enough. Seriously I rarely watch Sixers games.

I do know ZERO chance if a Jay is involved.

Would a 3 some of Tatum, Brown, and Simmons, plus the young talent be enough to elevate us to being a title contender? If no, would adding Simmons make Beal less or more likely?

I'll hang up and listen.
 

Cellar-Door

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Ben Simmons is the JD Drew litmus test. People who think Ben Simmons wouldn't get a max today are casual fans or something. It's comical.
It's all about cheap recency bias and narrative. Last year in Jan the board was discussing such things as: Should PHI trade Simmons for Harden and "who would you rather have Simmons or Jaylen". He had 1 bad series, otherwise he's the same player he was... a guy who has a ton of skills, won't shoot 3s and is a poor FT shooter and can't be counted on to score late in games, particularly in the playoffs.
 

johnmd20

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I wouldn’t give up serious capital either. The question in the poll was whether you would want Simmons on your team under any circumstance. The kid obviously had a rough time in the playoffs last year which was followed by his star center and head coach behind a mic throwing him under the bus…….I wouldn’t call him a malcontent but someone who is desperately wanting out of a situation where he isn’t supported and being held hostage by Morey.
Simmons threw himself under the bus by taking a total of 0 shots in the 4th quarter of 4 straight playoff games. He passed up a dunk in one of the worst basketball plays in the entire 2021 season.

At some point, you have to call it as you see it. And Simmons, as Doc saw it, is a player who cannot win a title.

Simmons is a baby. Doc was just a frustrated human being. I don't think Simmons' play this eason would have changed if Doc said nothing. Simmons was checked out and scared. If Doc's words are why Simmons wants out, it basically proves Doc's point.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Simmons threw himself under the bus by taking a total of 0 shots in the 4th quarter of 4 straight playoff games. He passed up a dunk in one of the worst basketball plays in the entire 2021 season.

At some point, you have to call it as you see it. And Simmons, as Doc saw it, is a player who cannot win a title.

Simmons is a baby. Doc was just a frustrated human being. I don't think Simmons' play this eason would have changed if Doc said nothing. Simmons was checked out and scared. If Doc's words are why Simmons wants out, it basically proves Doc's point.
Doc, Embiid and Simmons are all babies and have proven it time and time again.