Who's on Third? I don't know

Merkle's Boner

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Farrell's move last night struck me as a plea to DD to get rid of Pablo and bring up someone, either Marrero or Devers, who hit another HR last night. To not allow Sandoval to hit right-handed, knowing it would mean having Vazquez play 3B, had to be JF sending a signal that he's done with Pablo.
 

joe dokes

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Farrell's move last night struck me as a plea to DD to get rid of Pablo and bring up someone, either Marrero or Devers, who hit another HR last night. To not allow Sandoval to hit right-handed, knowing it would mean having Vazquez play 3B, had to be JF sending a signal that he's done with Pablo.
The overall point is probably the same, but Farrell's been platooning Sandoval pretty much full time. I guess the fact that he wouldn't make an exception even here is noteworthy, but his "feelings" towards Sandoval seem pretty evident. He starts against RHPs and comes out after 6 if the game is remotely close and the Sox have a living breathing replacement.
The Marrero platoon stablized things for a bit, but that went south when Johnson and EdRod got hurt in quick succession.

I was in the "he's still young, he seems to have made an effort, so give him some rope" camp. But no peep out of me if he gets an unconditional release tomorrow.
 

joe dokes

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And Farrell was aware of that?
Not sure what your point is. Is it PH for Sandoval, or not changing the roster?
Down by 2, lefty on the mound, Sandoval with an almost zero chance of doing anything at the bat; Young with (historically, anyway) significantly more than zero chance; then take your chances at 3B.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Not sure what your point is. Is it PH for Sandoval, or not changing the roster?
Down by 2, lefty on the mound, Sandoval with an almost zero chance of doing anything at the bat; Young with (historically, anyway) significantly more than zero chance; then take your chances at 3B.
Tactically. the move is absolutely defensible.

And yet, it's absolutely terrible strategic roster management not to have dropped a pitcher to AAA - even if the only optionable bullpen arms are Matt Barnes and Joe Kelly - in order to have a defensively useful bench heading into the KC series.

The fact that didn't happen after Pedroia was coughing up blood, leaving only Young and Leon as fallback options, was idiotic.
 

joe dokes

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Tactically. the move is absolutely defensible.

And yet, it's absolutely terrible strategic roster management not to have dropped a pitcher to AAA - even if the only optionable bullpen arms are Matt Barnes and Joe Kelly - in order to have a defensively useful bench heading into the KC series.

The fact that didn't happen after Pedroia was coughing up blood, leaving only Young and Leon as fallback options, was idiotic.
Oh sure, the roster was a problem. I thought thee was a suggestion that that was on the manager.
Also not sure I agree with losing Kelly or Barnes for 10 days, though, if they think Pedroia is out for 3.
Marerro isn't yet eligible to return. Other than Travis, what other IFs are on the 40?
 

phenweigh

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Tactically. the move is absolutely defensible.

And yet, it's absolutely terrible strategic roster management not to have dropped a pitcher to AAA - even if the only optionable bullpen arms are Matt Barnes and Joe Kelly - in order to have a defensively useful bench heading into the KC series.

The fact that didn't happen after Pedroia was coughing up blood, leaving only Young and Leon as fallback options, was idiotic.
Looks idiotic, but the non-idiots running this team decided it was worth the risk given the other options (or lack thereof). There isn't a middle infielder available on the 40-man, and the pen is getting stretched. I would have brought up Marrero when Johnson was sent to the DL, but when that move wasn't made, I think staying pat yesterday was a reasonable decision.

Changes are apparently coming today, and I'm quite interested to see what they are.
 

judyb

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Brock Holt isn't on the 60 day DL yet even though he's already been on the 10 day for close to 60 days, so the 40 man spot isn't a problem. Mike Miller probably makes the most sense for now, in case something happens to another MI.
 

phenweigh

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Brock Holt isn't on the 60 day DL yet even though he's already been on the 10 day for close to 60 days, so the 40 man spot isn't a problem. Mike Miller probably makes the most sense for now, in case something happens to another MI.
To be clear, I'm not saying there weren't other reasonable options, I just don't think standing pat yesterday was idiotic.
 

AB in DC

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I would hope that they could make a move before today's game. Nothing against Austin Maddox, but with Sale pitching today and an off-day Thursday, there's absolutely no reason to keep 13 pitchers on the active roster.
 

Byrdbrain

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The small move is Maddux down, Holt to 60 day and Miller added to 40 man and brought up.
Another option is to DL Pedey, they say he'll just miss this series but he sounded pretty banged up another week of might not be a bad idea. In that case you could bring up Marerro early.
DFAing Pablo right now doesn't look like it is in the cards when the roster is so short of guys that can play in the IF right now. What would change that is if they picked up someone from another org to play 3B.
 

TeddyBallgame9

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Just did a quick scan of the Pawsox roster and there are 5 (FIVE!) players listed as third basemen. Ryan Court, Matt Dominguez, Heiker Meneses (7-day DL), Steve Selsky and Jantzen White. Seems excessive, and they all appear to be AAA fodder. Can anybody following them closely chime in on how many of these guys are actually getting playing time at 3B?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Just did a quick scan of the Pawsox roster and there are 5 (FIVE!) players listed as third basemen. Ryan Court, Matt Dominguez, Heiker Meneses (7-day DL), Steve Selsky and Jantzen White. Seems excessive, and they all appear to be AAA fodder. Can anybody following them closely chime in on how many of these guys are actually getting playing time at 3B?
Per Baseball Reference, Dominguez is the primary 3B at 50 games played. Jantzen White is second with 13 games. Then Sandoval (6), Holt (3), and Rutledge (2), with Ryan Court having made one appearance there. That's all that have played.

Selsky was used at 3B when he was with the Red Sox earlier in the year, but he's primarily an OF. Meneses is a utility infielder who has played 3B in the past but has not done so in 2017.
 

Byrdbrain

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Dominguez and Witte are the main 3B on the team and neither are doing anything worth giving them an opportunity.
Selsky is an OF who played a little 1B and 3B in the spring but he shouldn't even be listed.
Court has looks to be a utility guy who has actually hit OK but I don't know how much 3B he has played.
Meneses, as you stated is on the DL but he is a utility guy.

I see RedHawks essentially covered this but I wrote it so here it is.
 

C4CRVT

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The fangraphs article was pretty damning. Pablo, it's time to go.

I still remember the advice from some of our resident Giants fans (during the "Oh cool, we're getting Panda" times) that this would not end well. I thought that they were just being turds in the punchbowl. No-sir. They were spot on. Galegirl maybe? Anyway, Pablo seems like a decent enough fella, wish him well but he sure didn't do much to help us win many games. And he sure got paid.

If only my skill set were worth 95 million to do really really badly. He's played a total of 161 games (620 PA) for us with an aggregate line of .237/.286/.360. OPS .648. That's like paying for a 5 year lease of a BMW M5 and having a Chevy Cavelier with 200k miles on it show up. After three years of underperforming and spending half the time in the shop it's time to send him off to the scrap heap.
 
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DeadlySplitter

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Pete tweeted last night like something major was happening. I don't want to read into it too much but it's possible he saw Panda was cleaning out his locker or something.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
This is super weird. As far as I can tell, 12 hours later PeteAbe is still the only quasi-knowledgeable person who has said anything about this alleged roster move, even though the wording of his tweets made it sound as if it was a fait accompli and we were just waiting for the details.
 

Merkle's Boner

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Dominguez and Witte are the main 3B on the team and neither are doing anything worth giving them an opportunity.
Selsky is an OF who played a little 1B and 3B in the spring but he shouldn't even be listed.
Court has looks to be a utility guy who has actually hit OK but I don't know how much 3B he has played.
Meneses, as you stated is on the DL but he is a utility guy.

I see RedHawks essentially covered this but I wrote it so here it is.
If they were to do something like this, I would prefer them calling up Devers from Portland. If only for a week before sending him to Pawtucket, where he should rightfully be.
 

C4CRVT

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Given how many other things would need to go right for this season to be a championship season, trading good prospects to fill in the black hole at 3d seems like throwing good money in after bad. Given his history, I'm very nervous about Dombrowski's next move. If Porcello and Price start pitching lights-out baseball, then we're in business but until then, there's no reason to put more chips in the middle of the table.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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If they were to do something like this, I would prefer them calling up Devers from Portland. If only for a week before sending him to Pawtucket, where he should rightfully be.
No sense in starting his service time clock and burning an option year if it's a temporary call-up. No way do they call up Devers before mid-August unless they intend to keep him up.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Per Farrell...Marrero and Travis back up, Maddox sent down and Sandoval to the DL.


Edit to add: Sandoval has the flu. Ooookay.

 

moondog80

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The fangraphs article was pretty damning. Pablo, it's time to go.

I still remember the advice from some of our resident Giants fans (during the "Oh cool, we're getting Panda" times) that this would not end well.
End well? It didn't even start well.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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How would Moreland look at 3rd?
But seriously....

No, but really seriously.... I've been against calling Devers up in '17 in general but recently his hot streak (as the weather is heating up coincidentally) has me rethinking it. They really should get this kid to Pawtucket and if he can show little to no drop in production through July and half of August and they're still in the thick of the race, I'm all for it now.

But seriously.... Moreland at 3rd?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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How would Moreland look at 3rd?
But seriously....

No, but really seriously.... I've been against calling Devers up in '17 in general but recently his hot streak (as the weather is heating up coincidentally) has me rethinking it. They really should get this kid to Pawtucket and if he can show little to no drop in production through July and half of August and they're still in the thick of the race, I'm all for it now.

But seriously.... Moreland at 3rd?
Left handed third baseman?

Seriously?
 

Merkle's Boner

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I think that might be the last we see of Panda. And I can't imagine they go with Marrero and Rutledge the rest of the way. Probably a trade coming but I really hope they don't give up too much just to save an option year.
 

genoasalami

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I think that might be the last we see of Panda. And I can't imagine they go with Marrero and Rutledge the rest of the way. Probably a trade coming but I really hope they don't give up too much just to save an option year.
I agree ..I think Panda will never take the field again for the Sox. They were forced to play a catcher at 3B last night due to his ineptness. Today he is on the DL with an 'ear infection'? That's all you need to know.
 

Pandemonium67

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ESPN Boston's Scott Lauber is reporting that it's an ear infection that's sending Pablo to the DL. Makes sense, as ear infections are well-known byproducts of the Hellenic Flu.

I too would vote for giving Devers some time in the bigs as a stop-gap while the Sox are short-handed, then sending him down when Pedey is ready to go. For that matter, I'd consider a 10-day DL for Pedey. Give him a rest and let him recover fully; there's a lot of baseball still to go.
 

MikeM

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An ear infection huh? Our inability to cut the cord on a sunk cost of that magnitude continues I guess.

A change of scenery and cash only Plouffe flyer was probably there for weeks with a simple phone call before that TB grab. Hope that doesn't come back to haunt us.
 

joe dokes

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A change of scenery and cash only Plouffe flyer was probably there for weeks with a simple phone call before that TB grab. Hope that doesn't come back to haunt us.
Sandoval's 692 OPS vs RHP this year is better than only a handful of 3Bmen. One is Josh Rutledge. Another is Trevor Plouffe, who has a carer 691 vs RHPs. I suppose he can field better than Sandoval.
 

MikeM

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Sandoval's 692 OPS vs RHP this year is better than only a handful of 3Bmen. One is Josh Rutledge. Another is Trevor Plouffe, who has a carer 691 vs RHPs. I suppose he can field better than Sandoval.
Yeah, the ability to actually field the position with some everyday confidence does indeed come in handy at times.

Plus your flyer there is only banking that Plouffe manages to hit at his decent career averages while here, which you don't have to dig all the way back to 2014 in order to find.
 

joe dokes

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Yeah, the ability to actually field the position with some everyday confidence does indeed come in handy at times.

Plus your flyer there is only banking that Plouffe manages to hit at his decent career averages while here, which you don't have to dig all the way back to 2014 in order to find.
I was probably a bit too snarky there, but Plouffe has been declining since 2014. Like you said, a free flier isn't likely to be a bad thing. It was pretty much 50/50 as to who would suck less, and the coin seems to have landed on its edge.
 

MikeM

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I was probably a bit too snarky there, but Plouffe has been declining since 2014. Like you said, a free flier isn't likely to be a bad thing. It was pretty much 50/50 as to who would suck less, and the coin seems to have landed on its edge.
I'd honestly put the odds on Plouffe being better then Panda here at a heck of a lot better then 50/50, with the added upside potential that Plouffe actually had a chance at being a plus value guy. Again, especially considering that you have to dig pretty far back in time to find the last time Pablo took the field as a decent baseball player.

Point being that if you don't want rush Devers or trade assets away in an attempt at trying to upgrade, DD pretty much stood pat while the best reality option on the table (imo) just passed right by him.
 

E5 Yaz

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As noted above and for cash considerations that Cots has listed as a little over $1m, with the A's picking up the rest.
Sorry, didn't see it. Thought folks were still discussing getting him from Oak

My bad
 

tonyarmasjr

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Dominguez and Witte are the main 3B on the team and neither are doing anything worth giving them an opportunity.
Selsky is an OF who played a little 1B and 3B in the spring but he shouldn't even be listed.
Court has looks to be a utility guy who has actually hit OK but I don't know how much 3B he has played.
Meneses, as you stated is on the DL but he is a utility guy.

I see RedHawks essentially covered this but I wrote it so here it is.
I've followed Witte a little bit since he was drafted, though haven't really kept up this season. He's been solid, if unspectacular, throughout his minor league career. He's a 27yo corner IFer (apparently also seeing time at 2B this year, and I believe he played a bit of SS at TCU) with a .765 career OPS across all levels. He's played slightly older than age-appropriate, since he was a redshirt college guy. A couple injuries have limited his playing time - 85 and 111 G the last two years. Very little HR power for a corner IFer, but decent contact and plate discipline skills. Hitting LHP has been the strong side of his split in the past, but he has a .364(!) OPS against them this year. Current AAA line is .232/.350/.329. He's an adequate fielder at 3B with a good arm. That said, I'd much rather see him at 3B than Pablo at this point. Assuming his performance against LHP turns around, I don't think an OBP-heavy .700-ish OPS is unrealistic. And he can run around the bases and field a ground ball. I think he's another name to mix in with Marrero and Rutledge - a useful piece with options, especially in the event of an injury.

Dominguez would seem to be first in line if they went this route, since he has ML experience and was with the big club in ST. But he's sporting a .205/.236/.305 line on the year.

I'm on the Devers needs to be in Pawtucket sooner rather than later train. He's the solution we want, but having him clubbing at AA for another two months isn't going to get any closer to figuring out if he can be the solution this year.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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I'm on the Devers needs to be in Pawtucket sooner rather than later train. He's the solution we want, but having him clubbing at AA for another two months isn't going to get any closer to figuring out if he can be the solution this year.
Sure it is, because at this point defense is the greater consideration.

Devers, no matter how dominant he is against AA pitching, is going to have an adjustment period at the plate against extended MLB pitching, just like Xander and Beni.

However, if he's solid enough defensively, then you can keep running him out there even after he's struggling through an 0-for-30. He can reach that point defensively just as well in Portland as in Pawtucket. Maybe moreso.

What the Sox can't do is set him on a pedestal as the anti-Panda messiah. He should be a great long-term solution, but the emphasis has to be on the long term.
 

Sampo Gida

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Vazquez was probably not much of a defensive downgrade from Pablo. No complaints with that move.

Too bad Hanley cant play 3B. Oh well.

I really see no downside to trying out Devers. He looks like a future Panda in the making physically so lets not wait too long on him. He cant be worse than what he have and maybe the juiced ball in the MLB allows him to surprise us.
 

DJnVa

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An ear infection huh? Our inability to cut the cord on a sunk cost of that magnitude continues I guess.
Oh, we're cutting the cord. The 10 day DL gives the FO a chance to see if anyone anywhere would want him and how much freight we'd have to pay. He'll get a rehab stint to show he's "healthy".

If no one wants him at that point, I imagine they'll cut him.