I was all for the Shaw for Thornburg trade at the time (hindsight!), but Shaw did get banged up in mid-July last year. Pretty bad foot contusion (or, as bad as they can be?) that he said was making it hard to get lift off. He didn't get DL'd for it, but I think it might've played into his second half down turn. I also thought his first half was a mirage, so hindsight got me twice.
I know, and I guess I shouldn't post, b/c summer is my busiest time. I have so much to do in the garden and processing strawberries, I am exhausted. He had an injury to his foot in early July. X-rays negative.Lots of players do play hurt----note Moreland this year, and their production is often hurt by it, even if they don't go on the DL. As for the remarks about Thornburgh and Smith, earlier in the year, when I had more time, I looked and couldn't find who had made those remarks. But I know that I either read or heard both of them. Edit: Sorry for the repetition, I see paulb0t covered the injury.
How'd Aaron Judge do in the second half of last season? Too bad the Yankees didn't take that small sample size and trade him for a middle reliever.
There was nothing precluding them from having Shaw and Panda on the roster for a couple days until Panda went down with his latest pulled fat.
Except DD was trying to fill a hole in his team (middle relief) while trading from perceived excess (whether it ended up being true or not). At that point of the winter, he had Pablo, who was going to start no matter what because of that contract, Shaw, Holt, and Hernandez available to play 3rd. Shaw had the most trade value of those options, so he tried to turn that into MR help. It hasn't worked out. Guess what? That happens with all teams. Things don't always work out as planned. It looks like a shitty trade now, but things can change. And it's likely they won't. But the process made sense. No one knew that the top 3 options would ALL be out at this point.
To be fair, he can regress to below All Star level and still be a.) a valuable major league regular for cheap over many years of control, and b.) still a hell of a lot better than Panda/Marrero. Including his terrible second half last year, and great first half this year, he now has over 1,000 PAs in the majors, and has actually been pretty consistent in terms of BB and K rates, with a BABIP in the normal range all three seasons, and slightly above average defense. Sure, his value in a given season will fluctuate with ISO a bit as a power hitter, but it's hard to doubt that he has pop, or that his glove is about average.
Imagine where we'd be today if it had occurred to someone to sign third baseman Hanley Ramirez to play third base.
It looked like a shitty trade from the moment it was announced. The only reason anyone on this Board is arguing any differently is because of hometown bias or ignorance. A starting third baseman and 3 other prospects for a middle reliever. If this were the MLB forum and that trade had been made by any of 29 other GMs the trade would be a SoSH punchline.
And this means what?
outside of 2011, almost all of that could be explained by the league wide drop off in offense. And most people here hated the signing the day it happened anyway.
Nothing. I liked the Shaw trade. I just don't think Marco Hernandez should be counted on for anything.
Teams often times make one-sided deals when they are working from a (presumed) position of strength and dealing to fill a hole. However, the fact that they are giving up "more total value" than they are receiving does not necessarily mean it's a shitty trade.
There wasn't a complete drop in offense in the NL because it went from .710 to .718 from 2011 to 2012. But the fact of the matter is that his age went from 24 to 27 in that period. Shouldn't a player be getting better (at least compared to league-average) as he approaches his "prime" years?
Hanley was pretty widely recognized to be hitting the market as a third baseman in the 2014-15 offseason, on this board and elsewhere.
And very widely not as a left fielder. 3b was the next logical spot for a not good fielding shortstop regardless of lack of prior experience at the position.
Solarte would seem to fit with an organizational shift toward hitting for contact. He's got a 86.1% contact rate from 2015-17, 3rd among MLB third basemen with >300 PAs.
The context makes this a bit confusing--are you saying that Seager's solid track record means the Mariners won't sell him, or that they won't be looking to replace him if they turn out to be buyers? I think both are true, but I wasn't sure which you meant.
I meant the former but agree both are true. They need him. I was just adding the M's to the list as potential playoff contenders.
Considering they have to fit a very specific criteria here, namely minor league deals and/or guys with options (barring going big we can't risk forcing our hand on Pablo's roster spot), it's not like beggars can be choosers either.
Uh, has he been proven right? There's still four years of control left on both players and a lot to be hashed out before we can make any kind of grade on it, no? It's certainly not working out this season, but that doesn't mean it ends up a bad trade and thats before we even get into the prospects cited.
The deal is good or bad at inception, irrespective of what happens later on. David Price was a good move that isn't working out quite as well as we hoped. This deal was terrible ex ante. That it isn't working out at all due to an injury is just the fresh turd in the old shit sandwich.
I think most people here would agree that if there had been no ambiguity whatsoever at the end of last year about the applicability of the bolded phrase to Travis Shaw, it would have been an obviously bad deal.
I don't really see the point of rehashing the deal again but if we must this is the key. The Sox obviously didn't view Shaw as a starter and neither did most here. After an additional half a season of data if appears we may have been wrong about that.
"And the trades were done on a Tuesday"?
The injury has ended a lot of pitching careers, including those of Chris Carpenter, Shaun Marcum and Noah Lowry. You're right that it's a pretty grim prognosis.
Tzu-Wei Lin, obviously.
To me, the answer is clearly yes. But what makes it a yes isn't the relative value that has changed hands, but the underlying premise that we did not need third base depth and were dealing from strength.
