What should the Sox do with Swihart when Hanigan returns?

[MakMan44]

So Hanigan return is approaching quickly, as the season continues to get closer to another lost year. 
 
Swihart is posting a 53 wRC+ created, and a .562 OPS. Bad numbers, but he's been slightly better in June posting a .641 OPS & a wRC+ of 77. So has he shown enough on offense AND defense that's earned the starting spot even when Hanigan returns? Maybe you think he should be the back up instead? Or should he just be sent back to AAA with Leon remaining as the back up to Hanigan. Personally, I think the season is circling the drain, so I don't see the harm in continuing to let him adjust in the bigs, but I haven't watched many games this season so maybe he looks REALLY bad in games RE: his approach at the plate and on defense and I'm just not seeing it. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I'd probably send him down too. His OPS+ is 57. His defense hasn't been that great in terms of controlling the running game. The plan wasn't to have him in The Show this year (at least not until September). He's struggling pretty badly.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I think unless there's a question of his defense that is better addressed with more work in the minors, you let it ride with Swihart getting 3/5 starts the rest of the year.  The bat is a bonus, not a necessity to him sticking in the bigs, and he's showing improvement at the plate as he goes along.  I like his approach from what I've seen of him.

 

[pokey_reese]

Yeah, I think that you have to send him down. He is young, wasn't supposed to be up starting this year if not for the injury, and hasn't shown that he is such an advanced hitter at this point that he shouldn't be sent down. Unless you think that the most important remaining part of his development is familiarity with this particular set of pitchers (and the way that this season is going, who knows how many of them will be around next year), everything else he can work on in the minors with less pressure, plus he can gain familiarity with Brian Johnson, Owens, etc., who are almost as likely to be pitching to him next year as Joe Kelly or Buchholz.

 

[jasail]

With Vaz's status unknown for next year, Hannigan's current injury and Leon being horrendous, I'd keep Swihart up and give him an opportunity to continue to work with the MLB pitching staff and face MLB pitching. I'm not sure if there's that much of a benefit to sending him down for a maximum of 6-8 weeks for seasoning. Plus he may benefit from working with a pro like Hannigan and the lesser workload Hannigan will afford him.

 

[threecy]

His hitting has been improving, so that's encouraging.
His May OPS was .524 (.320 BABIP) while his June OPS is .641 (.231 BABIP).  He went from striking out 28% of the time in May to 16.6% of the time in June.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Send him down. he can't hit MLB pitching yet. This is not good for him. Bringing him up is just another bad part of this crappy season.

 

[amfox1]

I would send him down in order consolidate his gains from his MLB experience and to keep his service time down.  Bring him back on Sept 1.

 

[gryoung]

I think unless there's a question of his defense that is better addressed with more work in the minors, you let it ride with Swihart getting 3/5 starts the rest of the year.  The bat is a bonus, not a necessity to him sticking in the bigs, and he's showing improvement at the plate as he goes along.  I like his approach from what I've seen of him.[/

Keep him here and split time with Hanigan when he's back. He's the best in the system and sending him back to AAA won't do much to improve him. Seems to be getting better ab's so let him continue to see major league pitching.

 

[Super Nomario]

I think unless there's a question of his defense that is better addressed with more work in the minors, you let it ride with Swihart getting 3/5 starts the rest of the year.  The bat is a bonus, not a necessity to him sticking in the bigs, and he's showing improvement at the plate as he goes along.  I like his approach from what I've seen of him.[/

Keep him here and split time with Hanigan when he's back. He's the best in the system and sending him back to AAA won't do much to improve him. Seems to be getting better ab's so let him continue to see major league pitching.

Do you think in general that AAA is waste of time in terms of development, or specifically for Swihart?
 
In general I suspect that, as in most human endeavors, the right amount of challenge is the best for development, and in Swihart's case that looks like AAA right now.

 

[trekfan55]

I personally think Swihart should be sent down.  He really was not supposed to be up this year, but the Hannigan issue forced their hand.  It is noteworthy that when Vazqquez went down for the year they signed Sandy Leon instead of promoting Swihart (Hannigan was supposed to be the backup for Vazquez).  Once Hannigan is back Swihart should go back to AAA and use the time spent in the majors as a learning experience.
 
What happens in 2016 if Vazquez returns to full health is another story.

 

[threecy]

Send him down. he can't hit MLB pitching yet. This is not good for him. Bringing him up is just another bad part of this crappy season.

He's cut his K rate and increased his OPS, despite having a lower BABIP in the process.  If he sustains or builds upon his June numbers, he's a league average catcher offensively already.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

In the spirit of "throwing shit against the wall," has there ever been discussion of trying Swihart at 1st (or 3rd)? Yes, I realize that he's more valuable as a catcher, and that he'll probably never hit as well as a prototypical slugging 1B. But the position is looming as a potential black hole (assuming Hanley is serious about not wanting to play there), and if Vazquez comes back healthy, he's a starting-caliber catcher, and I'm not sure it makes sense to hang on to two of those with so many potential holes elsewhere on the diamond. Probably not a consideration for this year at the MLB level anyway, but I don't hate the idea as much as I probably should.

 

[phenweigh]

It looks like Blake has been through the worst of being over-matched as a hitter.  The bat is improving as the SSS stats indicated, but I think he looks better as well, so I'm inclined to think the stats are correctly showing that he is indeed improving.  I think this also indicates his psyche hasn't been harmed by being called up too early, and matches what I see in his general demeanor.  More importantly, working with the major league pitching staff and learning from Hanigan seems like it's better for his development at this point.
 
This is certainly guesswork on my part, and if the Sox decide AAA is better I wouldn't bat an eye.

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

Swihart is a good example of how comparisons to established stars do young players no favors. Being compared to Posey set fan (and maybe front office) expectations for Swihart that really were not fair. He should be back in AAA learning how to be a catcher. Ultimately, I think this time in the big leagues will be good for him. Take that experience and tear up AAA competition for awhile.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

In the spirit of "throwing shit against the wall," has there ever been discussion of trying Swihart at 1st (or 3rd)? Yes, I realize that he's more valuable as a catcher, and that he'll probably never hit as well as a prototypical slugging 1B. But the position is looming as a potential black hole (assuming Hanley is serious about not wanting to play there), and if Vazquez comes back healthy, he's a starting-caliber catcher, and I'm not sure it makes sense to hang on to two of those with so many potential holes elsewhere on the diamond. Probably not a consideration for this year at the MLB level anyway, but I don't hate the idea as much as I probably should.

 
That strikes me as a cross the bridge when they get to it kind of scenario.  Before they can consider it, at least two things have to happen that probably won't be known by the end of this season: 1) Swihart has to prove he can hit not just competently but hit well at the big league level (there are signs of life, but he's not there yet) and 2) Vazquez has to prove he can handle a full time load as a starter, both physically (in terms of his elbow) and at the plate.
 
If the Red Sox find themselves in a situation where they have two starting-caliber catchers on the roster, moving Swihart to a corner infield position may be a viable alternative.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

The correct answer to this is, of course, wherever Swihart's development is best served. And this is something that should be left up to the professional talent evaluators in the FO. I certainly don't claim to have any insight into whether he's better off learning in the Show or in AAA.

If it WAS left up to me I'd keep him in Boston. His offense does seem to be coming around and you don't learn to hit major league pitching in Pawtucket. His defense has been at least adequate if not better. But that's just me.

 

[TomRicardo]

Send him down. he can't hit MLB pitching yet. This is not good for him. Bringing him up is just another bad part of this crappy season.

 
Completely disagree here.  He is coming around on major league pitching.  He has reduced his K% since coming up and he is starting to look like a legitimate MLB bat.
 
Swihart is steadily improving as he plays.  Unless he hits a major set back is better off adjusting to MLB pitching on a team going no where 

 

[leftfieldlegacy]

Given the way he is responding now, I don't see any benefit in sending him back to Pawtucket. I think there is more confidence to be gained by finishing a full season in Boston than tearing up minor league pitching for a couple of months. The important thing is that he has shown that he doesn't feel over matched in the bigs.
 
He plays the toughest and most intellectually demanding position in baseball and is handling it well.  He will need more days off than a veteran player but a platoon with Hanigan should take care of that and keep him fresh into September.  

 

[nothumb]

I think I lean towards keeping him up because there is a decent chance that Vaz is rusty and really struggles at the plate next year (like, even to the point that it's a problem if his defense is 100% back). Having Blake ready to carry the heavy half of a catching platoon, and having as many ML at-bats as possible under his belt, can only help.
 
If you keep him up I think you have to commit to playing him a fair bit though, and probably try him out at 1B or DH from time to time to let him hit as much as possible.

 

[jasail]

To expand a bit on the hitting piece, he's not a guy who seems to be lacking in approach, but rather a young player would has not faced pitching as good as MLB pitching is and has struggled at first shot to adapt. I'm not certain this improves at all by sending him to AAA. First, there is an apparent gulf between pitching at the AAA and MLB level (due to both talent and strike zone), as evidenced by both the struggles of recent highly touted offensive prospects (e.g., Xander and Mookie), as well as articles written and comments on this subject by knowledgable baseball writers (Joe Sheehan, Grantland, Gammo and Speier to name a few). Second, there may be an even wider gulf between AAA and MLB pitching during the 2nd half of the season when the more seasoned and MLB ready pitchers may now be pitching on MLB teams and AAA rotations feature not-quite-ready prospects, retreads and recent AA promotions. Instead, I'd continue to give him a shot at the MLB level, which if he is capable of dealing with the failure may be the best place for him to learn to hit MLB level pitching and manage an MLB strikezone. 
 
Edit: The argument for sending him back down, imo, is best highlighted if there is a certain defensive issue they want him to work on or if they want him to learn a second position (e.g., 1B). 

 

[pokey_reese]

Given the way he is responding now, I don't see any benefit in sending him back to Pawtucket. I think there is more confidence to be gained by finishing a full season in Boston than tearing up minor league pitching for a couple of months. The important thing is that he has shown that he doesn't feel over matched in the bigs.

 
He has a career .769 OPS in the minors, and was at .774 before he was called up this year. He once had an .840 OPS in a half season at AA, but I am not at all worried about him tearing up the minors for any length of time. I could only see that as a positive, given that he has mainly been a 'potentially' great hitter in his career thus far, in large part because he was focused on learning the defensive side of the position.

 

[radsoxfan]

Keep him up as long as he is holding his own out there.  If he plays like he has over the past few weeks, that would be just fine.
 
Leon is putrid, and Hanigan certainly doesn't need to play more than twice a week.  Swihart can get plenty of valuable experience this season, and already seems to be improving at the major league level.
 
On an unrelated and selfish note, watching a Leon/Hanigan platoon the rest of the season would be thoroughly nauseating. 

 

[grimshaw]

I would definitely keep him up.  He needed to work on his play calling in AAA and other aspects of his defense.  Learning how to get AAA hitters out isn't going to help that aspect of his game.  Maybe splitting time with Hanigan will give him a mental break and he can focus on his bat more.
He is getting better overall too.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

He is getting a bit better, but he's still got a 560 OPS, showing little power, and striking out 5x as often as he is walking. With just 150 AAA plate appearances, I think he could use more. I would assume they start next season with the incomparable Vazquez and Hanigan, and make Swihart force his way on the roster. He's had a taste of the majors, but he needs more seasoning.

This is all true, yet regardless what the Sox do with him, this season is a lost cause. Considering his improvement at the plate, I think he would benefit more long-term as an asset for future seasons by prepping and catching at the MLB level now, rather than going back to the 'Bucket.

 

[Plympton91]

This is all true, yet regardless what the Sox do with him, this season is a lost cause. Considering his improvement at the plate, I think he would benefit more long-term as an asset for future seasons by prepping and catching at the MLB level now, rather than going back to the 'Bucket.

 
Since starting 2 for 22 with 1 2B and 1 BB and 10 K's, Swihart is 22 for 82, with 4 2B, a HR, 5 BB, and 17 K's.  That's hitting at least as well as Vazquez did while playing everyday last season, so I say leave him in the majors.  When coupled with the fact that Leon is quite possibly one of the worst players to ever wear a Red Sox uniform, this is a no brainer.  You DFA Leon and let Swihart catch 5 of every 8 games, with Hannigan taking the rest. 

 

[The Mort Report]

Well his service clock has started, so unless the team feels he's not ready for the bigs, he should definitely stay up.  Having him split time with Hannigan is the best way to go.  People can knock his OPS of .562 all they want, but Leon is a career .488 guy.  He's already better at the plate even though we all view him as failing at some degree, but this team is obviously dearly lacking in offense, which he gives the team a better option.  Plus can't Hannigan fix his offense just as easily as a washing machine?

 

[Bigpupp]

His service time is paused if he gets sent down, though. If sending him down means having him another year then I'm all for it.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

His service time is paused if he gets sent down, though. If sending him down means having him another year then I'm all for it.

At the point where the team will have to make this decision, Swihart will have been up for two months. That means to extend control for an extra year over what they already have, he'd have to stay in Pawtucket for an equivalent period next year to "make up" the time. His time in AAA in April was enough to get them the "bonus" year that was all the rage with JBJ two years ago.

So unless they're convinced he needs extensive time in Pawtucket next year, the service time factor is somewhat moot.

 

[threecy]

If Vazquez is healthy, isn't significant time in AAA for Swihart next year quite likely?

Not if Swihart continues to improve while in the big leagues.
 
Vazquez is one year and change older than Swihart and has 22 more MLB games.  Neither have a full season of AAA.  Vazquez has a couple dozen more AA games than Swihart.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

If Vazquez is healthy, isn't significant time in AAA for Swihart next year quite likely?

Given how high many seem to be on Vazquez, I don't see why you'd keep Swihart up as a backup- and his offense certainly is not at the point where playing anywhere else makes sense.

 
I'm assuming that even if he's medically cleared to throw and play with no restrictions/limitations, Vazquez is going to be rusty from having a full year off and will benefit from starting the year in Pawtucket himself.  Which would necessitate Swihart beginning the year on the big league roster with Hanigan.  Doesn't rule out switching the two players if Vazquez looks ready and Swihart is struggling.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

If Vazquez is healthy, isn't significant time in AAA for Swihart next year quite likely?

Given how high many seem to be on Vazquez, I don't see why you'd keep Swihart up as a backup- and his offense certainly is not at the point where playing anywhere else makes sense.

 
If Swihart continues to make improvements in his hitting at the MLB level, he's shouldn't get significant time in AAA.
 
In terms of driving the ball, he already seems much better than Vazquez, who put up pesky at-bats and flicked a lot of singles to RF, but still had only a .240/.308/.309 line. Swihart's .559 isn't really that far off that pace, and is trending up as his strikeout rate improves.
 
The Sox should let it ride with Swihart, slot Hanigan into the backup role he was supposed to have when he's able, and send Leon packing to RI or wherever. Let next year's decisions be made after this season.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
I'm assuming that even if he's medically cleared to throw and play with no restrictions/limitations, Vazquez is going to be rusty from having a full year off and will benefit from starting the year in Pawtucket himself.  Which would necessitate Swihart beginning the year on the big league roster with Hanigan.  Doesn't rule out switching the two players if Vazquez looks ready and Swihart is struggling.

 
To expand on this, there's no guarantee that Vazquez is coming back in 2016 or at all.  So, unless there's a short term FA catcher available, we may be best off letting Swihart face MLB pitching for the rest of the season *and* work on his handling of the ML pitching staff.  If we had a perfect ML stop-gap, I can see the argument that Swihart would benefit from a full, lower-pressure, season in AAA.  But if he's likely (or very likely) to come up next year, perhaps playing out the season is the best preparation. 
 
Plus, even though he's struggling, he's improving, and he may like it here and may develop his skills more quickly than he would at AAA.  Some guys thrive on the challenge of being in somewhat over their heads.  (This last bit is pure speculation on my part - I don't know anything about his make-up, but it's worth mentioning.)

 

[joe dokes]

 
Since starting 2 for 22 with 1 2B and 1 BB and 10 K's, Swihart is 22 for 82, with 4 2B, a HR, 5 BB, and 17 K's.  That's hitting at least as well as Vazquez did while playing everyday last season, so I say leave him in the majors.  When coupled with the fact that Leon is quite possibly one of the worst players to ever wear a Red Sox uniform, this is a no brainer.  You DFA Leon and let Swihart catch 5 of every 8 games, with Hannigan taking the rest. 

 
This is about where I am. Not sure how to split the time between Hanigan and Swihart, but let's not forget, it's Ryan Hanigan coming back off the DL, not someone who could reasonably be expected to play  8 of 10 games while Swihart only plays once a week..   More than a little bit of this is based on just how bad Sandy Leon has looked. Even putting aside the fact that I dont know shit about major league catching, the fact that the Sox have played a rookie barely out of AA in 75% of the games since he was called up says what the Sox think of Leon.  It's like Lavarnway 2013.

 

[gryoung]

Do you think in general that AAA is waste of time in terms of development, or specifically for Swihart?
 
In general I suspect that, as in most human endeavors, the right amount of challenge is the best for development, and in Swihart's case that looks like AAA right now.

AAA has it's role for player development, but not for Swihart anymore in my opinion. As others have posted, he's showing progress offensively and appears to have the makeup to play in the bigs. His defense is acceptable and should only improve with more reps and coaching.

How Vasquez recovers is an unknown. Best case is he returns to his pre-injury form (which is excellent defense and mediocre offense). Swihart has the potential to be close to him defensively while having significantly more offense impact.

 

[Super Nomario]

AAA has it's role for player development, but not for Swihart anymore in my opinion.

Why not? It's not like he played 100 games there - he has just 36.
 

As others have posted, he's showing progress offensively and appears to have the makeup to play in the bigs. His defense is acceptable and should only improve with more reps and coaching.

Leaving aside whether a .216/.275/.351 line really constitutes improvement, we're talking just 40 PAs. That's a tiny sample size and too soon to conclude there's any real change here. For the whole year, he's hitting .222/.263/.296, which is bad.
 

How Vasquez recovers is an unknown. Best case is he returns to his pre-injury form (which is excellent defense and mediocre offense). Swihart has the potential to be close to him defensively while having significantly more offense impact.

I agree with this. I don't know how comfortable I am with either of them as the starting catcher in 2016, however.

 

[threecy]

Leaving aside whether a .216/.275/.351 line really constitutes improvement, we're talking just 40 PAs. That's a tiny sample size and too soon to conclude there's any real change here. For the whole year, he's hitting .222/.263/.296, which is bad.

If 40 PA sample is too small to conclude he's improved, then perhaps the other 75 PA sample is also too small to conclude he's bad at this point.

 

[Super Nomario]

If 40 PA sample is too small to conclude he's improved, then perhaps the other 75 PA sample is also too small to conclude he's bad at this point.

I'm not looking at just the 75, but, as is most often prudent, the whole sample - which, at 115 PAs, still isn't a lot. But since he has limited exposure above AA and is only being forced into action due to two injuries in front of him, the data points to him not being ready for MLB. That's not a commentary on his future outlook, of course.

 

[jscola85]

He's 23 and was called up as an emergency measure.  I'm not viewing his status long-term any different after this initial MLB exposure, as it is clear he is not ready for prime time yet.  He has a 5:1 K:BB ratio, his ISO is under .100 and he's probably gotten a bit lucky with a .295 BABIP relative to how weak his contact usually has been.  For a guy whose reputation was a bat-first catcher most of his time in the minors, I actually have felt his glove is far further along right now.
 
Send him down to AAA, get him regular plate appearances and let him focus on improving his batting eye and how to drive the ball a bit better.

 

[Cumberland Blues]

We're 10 games under .500 - surely there's a team whose season hasn't already been torpedoed that could use a solid veteran defensive catcher w/ some on base skills.  Trade Hannigan, keep Swihart in Boston.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

We're 10 games under .500 - surely there's a team whose season hasn't already been torpedoed that could use a solid veteran defensive catcher w/ some on base skills.  Trade Hannigan, keep Swihart in Boston.

 
Why trade Hanigan when the easier thing to do is jettison the waste of space that is Sandy Leon?  Hanigan has value to the team beyond this season since he's locked up for two more years (club option in '17).  He's good insurance against one of or both Swihart and Vazquez not being ready for full time big league action.

 

[MuzzyField]

As RHF points out...
 
If keeping Swihart up, I'd rather dump Sandy and keep Hanigan.  He'd be a much better mentor and allow Blake to get enough days off to digest the mental side of his transition.  
I'm glad JF is still playing the corpse of SL as often as he is and not forcing Blake to play too much.  Let Hanigan replace the corpse.

 

[TigerBlood]

im glad I don't make the decisions for this team because I would basically disregard every variable in this equation besides how much I loathe having to watch Sandy Leon.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

As RHF points out...
 
If keeping Swihart up, I'd rather dump Sandy and keep Hanigan.  He'd be a much better mentor and allow Blake to get enough days off to digest the mental side of his transition.  
I'm glad JF is still playing the corpse of SL as often as he is and not forcing Blake to play too much.  Let Hanigan replace the corpse.

 
On the mentor thing...Leon is 26.  He had all of 34 games of MLB experience prior to this season (or roughly 60% of Vazquez's total games played in MLB).  He brings less to the table than Kevin Cash did, and we had Cash at his career offensive peak.  Think about that.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

 
Why trade Hanigan when the easier thing to do is jettison the waste of space that is Sandy Leon?  Hanigan has value to the team beyond this season since he's locked up for two more years (club option in '17).  He's good insurance against one of or both Swihart and Vazquez not being ready for full time big league action.

 
Because he might bring back a lottery ticket that pays out better than Will Middlebrooks.
 
Besides, with his thumb injury you wouldn't believe the backlog of bathroom remodeling jobs that's building up.

 

[MuzzyField]

 
On the mentor thing...Leon is 26.  He had all of 34 games of MLB experience prior to this season (or roughly 60% of Vazquez's total games played in MLB).  He brings less to the table than Kevin Cash did, and we had Cash at his career offensive peak.  Think about that.

I'm looking for Hanigan to mentor and Leon to disappear. I'm happy JF has avoided the temptation to play Blake more and still put Leon in the lineup to give Blake time off.

 

[radsoxfan]

im glad I don't make the decisions for this team because I would basically disregard every variable in this equation besides how much I loathe having to watch Sandy Leon.

I agree with this, as I alluded above. Leon is abysmal. I don't think I could make any decision that leads to more playing time for him, regardless of downstream effects. Good thing I'm not in charge I guess.

The major issue at the heart of this, as it pertains to Swihart, is how much does it matter if someone develops at AAA or the majors?

I think everyone agrees he isn't a finished product. Those who advocate sending him down I assume feel like he will develop there better than doing the same thing at the major league level. This may be true in some cases, but my guess is that most of the time the same thing can be accomplished in the majors as long as his confidence isn't shot (like JBJ).

Since none of the other choices seem to be better options to help the major league team win now anyway, Id just leave Swihart up (barring a complete offensive collapse).

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

If 40 PA sample is too small to conclude he's improved, then perhaps the other 75 PA sample is also too small to conclude he's bad at this point.

No, no! You don't understand. Small sample sizes are only meaningless when they call into question a Bosox player's real value. If a small sample size shows improvement over some previously established baseline, that's a meaningful change that points directly to future superstardom.

 

[Chief_Macho]

I don't know the answer, but I have zero interest in watching Leon or Hanigan play.   Both are backups to me. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

With Vaz's status unknown for next year, Hannigan's current injury and Leon being horrendous, I'd keep Swihart up and give him an opportunity to continue to work with the MLB pitching staff and face MLB pitching. I'm not sure if there's that much of a benefit to sending him down for a maximum of 6-8 weeks for seasoning. Plus he may benefit from working with a pro like Hannigan and the lesser workload Hannigan will afford him.

This is where I'm at as of today. Swihart has a track record of slow starts and taking a couple months to adapt to the next level. He's shown improvement offensively in June against MLB pitching and we should see if this continues rather than sending him down to not know the answer heading into 2016. Also, working with the MLB pitching staff, coaching staff, and observing Hanigan can only help which will not occur in Pawtucket. If his offense regresses to where it was in May the change can always be made later but I'd want to see if he can continue to progress as he has.