What do you want Pats to do with #3?

[Cellar-Door]

Why not? Unless you're spreading yourself too thin, it's just due diligence because you never know how things might unfold on draft night or what opportunities might be available.

I think bringing them all in as a group is a little weird since I would think you'd want to spend as much time as possible doing 1 on 1 with your top options. I think the Schefter thing that Daniels and his agent were lead to believe it was a 1 on 1 thing only to find out day of it was 20 guys... that's weird and if it's a "annoy our potential franchise QB to see how he reacts" thing I think it's dumb because all it really does is make your potential franchise QB (and his agent) think that you;re running a clownshoes amateur hour operation, especially a 1st time GM working for new owners in what has long been the worst run franchise in the league.

 

[TC]

Why not? Unless you're spreading yourself too thin, it's just due diligence because you never know how things might unfold on draft night or what opportunities might be available.

Well for one it's unprecedented to see all these guy together. Why is that necessary?

For another, we're a week away from the draft now. Your team should probably know who they want at #2 at this point. I can't imagine the presumed pick would be happy about it.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Again: they desperately need a QB, by far the most important position on the team. There are three (maybe four depending on one's view of McCarthy) outstanding QB prospects in this draft. They draft #3, so they can get one of those three without having to lift a finger.

Need meets opportunity perfectly.

If they screw this up, a lot of us will rightly be pissed.

I vigorously disagree that there are 3 or 4 outstanding prospects. People can be pissed but wait 3-4 years and see if they should have been imo.

Interesting, good to know. So in other words, if Maye goes #2 would you advocate trading back and accumulating picks/players?

I'm also interested in your Daniels take. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but if Hurts is a comparison, that still seems pretty good? I know the Eagles built a great team around him, but if Daniels could be some approximation of Hurts that seems worth the #3 pick, no?

Ultimately I'm... not sure what I'm rooting for? There are so many glaring needs across the roster that I'm sympathetic with the view that we need to accumulate picks and not laser focus on QB... but going into 2024 with a journeyman at QB and no high level prospects in the QB room behind him just feels so depressing.

If it goes Williams, Maye then trade back, get assets for 2025 and potentially 2026 to help you get a QB then. I would trade back, get one of Odunze, Nabers, or MHJr, and then trade up for an OT. IMO I think Amarius Mims could easily be the best LT or RT in this entire class. Health needs to check out but I would snag him. If you come out of this draft with a top notch WR and OT prospect with more picks for next year? We're good to go. Taking a QB at 3 only makes sense if there is a QB worth taking. If you take one just to take one you'll just be back here in a few years.

So as for Hurts the idea is you want to take a guy you think can be an above average starter at 1,3. Hurts was more of an average starter build who could maximize his talent with the right scheme and supporting cast. Daniels is an outlier of a profile, especially as a pocket passer, who I would bet against all the time. 5th year starter, scrambles too much, takes too many sacks, doesn't hang in the pocket, doesn't read or progress well (same with JJM). He's old too. If he's this bad mentally at soon to be 24? Don't see guys like him getting drafted highly too often. 4 years of starts too and his pocket presence is garbage.

 

[astrozombie]

I vigorously disagree that there are 3 or 4 outstanding prospects. People can be pissed but wait 3-4 years and see if they should have been imo.



If it goes Williams, Maye then trade back, get assets for 2025 and potentially 2026 to help you get a QB then. I would trade back, get one of Odunze, Nabers, or MHJr, and then trade up for an OT. IMO I think Amarius Mims could easily be the best LT or RT in this entire class. Health needs to check out but I would snag him. If you come out of this draft with a top notch WR and OT prospect with more picks for next year? We're good to go. Taking a QB at 3 only makes sense if there is a QB worth taking. If you take one just to take one you'll just be back here in a few years.

So as for Hurts the idea is you want to take a guy you think can be an above average starter at 1,3. Hurts was more of an average starter build who could maximize his talent with the right scheme and supporting cast. Daniels is an outlier of a profile, especially as a pocket passer, who I would bet against all the time. 5th year starter, scrambles too much, takes too many sacks, doesn't hang in the pocket, doesn't read or progress well (same with JJM). He's old too. If he's this bad mentally at soon to be 24? Don't see guys like him getting drafted highly too often. 4 years of starts too and his pocket presence is garbage.

My preference is Maye at 3, but I have also started coming around on the idea - if Maye is gone - of trading for more draft capital and getting some combo of receivers/Oline/TE this draft and taking a chance on a QB in 2025. That would give the 2024 class some time to adapt to the NFL level and then you're not throwing a QB into a tough situation and getting the Mac Jones experience all over again. For what it's worth, even if the Pats do draft Maye, I hope he is not a week 1 starter and can sit and learn a bit while the offense continues to get overhauled and he can go into a better situation.

 

[E5 Yaz]

If anyone's interested in some light reading, here's a link to an academic paper about the value of staying with a high draft pick vs trading down. It was the basis for a recent story on The Athletic, which was behind a paywall
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w11270/w11270.pdf

From the abstract "...It is also a domain in which multiple psychological factors suggest teams may overvalue the “right to choose” in the draft – non-regressive predictions, overconfidence, the winner’s curse and false consensus all suggest a bias in this direction. Using archival data on draft-day trades, player performance and compensation, we compare the market value of draft picks with the historical value of drafted players. We find that top draft picks are overvalued in a manner that is inconsistent with rational expectations and efficient markets and consistent with psychological research."

Here's the story
https://theathletic.com/5416007/2024/04/16/nfl-drafting-methods-insight-massey-thaler/

 

[Cellar-Door]

If anyone's interested in some light reading, here's a link to an academic paper about the value of staying with a high draft pick vs trading down. It was the basis for a recent story on The Athletic, which was behind a paywall
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w11270/w11270.pdf



Here's the story
https://theathletic.com/5416007/2024/04/16/nfl-drafting-methods-insight-massey-thaler/

Yeah Massey Thaler is pretty well known and a good refutation of the old Jimmy Johnson chart. One thing worth noting that even they have mentioned since is... They don't really have a good way to evaluate positional value, particularly for QBs(to be fair the chart didn't either and it's a reason everyone agrees that QB trade ups always generate a lot more value)

Massey Thaler is a good argument for trading back over taking a non-QB... Not so much if you like the QB.

 

[SMU_Sox]

If anyone's interested in some light reading, here's a link to an academic paper about the value of staying with a high draft pick vs trading down. It was the basis for a recent story on The Athletic, which was behind a paywall
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w11270/w11270.pdf



Here's the story
https://theathletic.com/5416007/2024/04/16/nfl-drafting-methods-insight-massey-thaler/

^^ Great read and great find, E5!

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'm still too early to say for sure.
I know what I definitely do not want (any non-QB at #3, but particularly a WR, using a premium pick on Penix/Nix, McCarthy... well it would depend who was on the board).

I want Caleb the most, but by all accounts CHI won't even consider moving that pick unless they get a truly unprcedented haul, and that is probably too rich for me.
Still figuring out how I rank Maye/Daniels, but so far I'd be happy with either I think.
As to trading down, if for some reason the remaining QB is a bad choice, I can see one or more trade-downs making sense, pick up extra ammo, get a premium prospect at OT preferrably.

So since it's less than a week out and outside of some weird out of the box thing I can't see my mind changing..... time to look all the way back to the first page to see how much my thoughts changed.

So stayed the same...
I want Caleb most.
Chicago is not moving that pick.
Trading down for a QB is bad.
If they really don't like the QB on the board a trade down for a haul and grabbing an OT makes sense.
I'd be happy with Drake Maye.
I don't see it with Penix/Nix/McCarthy

What changed....
I'm less sure I'd be happy with Daniels, I've soured on him after watching more and seeing some of the charting and breakdowns.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So since it's less than a week out and outside of some weird out of the box thing I can't see my mind changing..... time to look all the way back to the first page to see how much my thoughts changed.

So stayed the same...
I want Caleb most.
Chicago is not moving that pick.
Trading down for a QB is bad.
If they really don't like the QB on the board a trade down for a haul and grabbing an OT makes sense.
I'd be happy with Drake Maye.
I don't see it with Penix/Nix/McCarthy

What changed....
I'm less sure I'd be happy with Daniels, I've soured on him after watching more and seeing some of the charting and breakdowns.

I'd like to think I've been very consistent with draft Drake Maye at 3 since the season has ended. Hope it comes to fruition.

 

[DJnVa]

I'd like to think I've been very consistent with draft Drake Maye at 3 since the season has ended. Hope it comes to fruition.

I want Maye, but I can't say I would be disappointed if I got to watch Jayden Daniels streak for a 60 yard TD on 3rd and long against the Jets next season.

 

[AB in DC]

Trading down for a QB is bad.

It really depends on whether the McCarthy-to-Pats rumors have any legs. If the Pats really like him, they should try to trade down to, say #6 (Giants) where McCarthy would still be available. JJM at #3 seems like a massive waste.

 

[Cellar-Door]

It really depends on whether the McCarthy-to-Pats rumors have any legs. If the Pats really like him, they should try to trade down to, say #6 (Giants) where McCarthy would still be available. JJM at #3 seems like a massive waste.

I still think it's bad for two reasons:
1. You have no idea if he makes it to 6
2. I don't think he's worth the 6th pick.

 

[Justthetippett]

I wonder if some of the Daniels noise is about Minnesota moving up to #2 to draft him. It's been mentioned here and elsewhere that he's the kind of guy you need to build around in specific ways. Minnesota is much more advanced than the other QB deprived teams.

That's not a deal that makes much sense for Washington since they need someone too, but who knows. They could consider themselves to be on a longer rebuild with new owners etc.

I just hope Maye is there for the Pats.

 

[nighthob]

I vigorously disagree that there are 3 or 4 outstanding prospects. People can be pissed but wait 3-4 years and see if they should have been imo.

I'm with you on this, I've warmed on Maye due to age (there's at least the chance he can outgrow the Favrian tendencies), but I'm still sour on the other two. I can see Daniels RGIIIing his way out of the league.

If it goes Williams, Maye then trade back, get assets for 2025 and potentially 2026 to help you get a QB then. I would trade back, get one of Odunze, Nabers, or MHJr, and then trade up for an OT. IMO I think Amarius Mims could easily be the best LT or RT in this entire class. Health needs to check out but I would snag him. If you come out of this draft with a top notch WR and OT prospect with more picks for next year? We're good to go. Taking a QB at 3 only makes sense if there is a QB worth taking. If you take one just to take one you'll just be back here in a few years.

That's where I am, build out the infrastructure to the extent that a Penix type could step in and have some success.

Zincman on SoSH asked: Here's a little game to play. Every year there are the top 5 QBs (whether they suck or not). Taking the top 5 for the last 4 years where would you place the projection of this years top 5 ... 19.Love 20.Hurts ... 11. Mac, 12. Hurts

Love Hurts, Mac Scars.

 

[NomarsFool]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

 

[Pesky Pole]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

The thing with #3 is it only takes one team paying a haul to move up and they don’t have to move up for Daniels or Maye. It could be MHJ. The Vikings picking up that second pick seem to be signaling they’ll move up. And the situation is Minnesota is certainly different and maybe more desperate for a QB given their roster construction (Although they need some OL help too).

i also think we’re all talking ourselves into Maye being better because he’s who we think we’re getting. Obviously, we have a few experts who I greatly appreciate saying the same (force ranking at least, not necessarily saying it’s 3rd pick value). I’m just happy to have a draft where I won’t be staying up until 10:45 only to see a trade down.

 

[Curt S Loew]

i also think we’re all talking ourselves into Maye being better because he’s who we think we’re getting.

I wanted Maye before Daniels shot up. I didn't think we would get him. I don't think there is any way he is going lower than #3.

 

[Justthetippett]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

I would be concerned that a trade would not net the three R1 picks in value that we'd hope/expect. You'd basically be relying on LV or Minn to make that trade. The market would not be huge.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

I've seen on another board (which I give far less credence to than this board) lots of people who think Daniels will be better than Maye, so I'm guessing opinions vary even all the way up the ladder to the pro scouts. Meaning, there will probably be teams that would like a crack at Daniels at 3.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I've seen on another board (which I give far less credence to this board) lots of people who think Daniels will be better than Maye, so I'm guessing opinions vary even all the way up the ladder to the pro scouts. Meaning, there will probably be teams that would like a crack at Daniels at 3.

This is correct. Some even have Daniels #1.

As BB said recently on Pat McAfee, "Every team has a different board. It's not going to look like ours or any other team"

 

[DJnVa]

I wonder if some of the Daniels noise is about Minnesota moving up to #2 to draft him. It's been mentioned here and elsewhere that he's the kind of guy you need to build around in specific ways. Minnesota is much more advanced than the other QB deprived teams.

A month ago it was about Minnesota moving up to take Maye because he played for McCown, their QB Coach, in high school.

#sillyseason

 

[j44thor]

I wonder if some of the Daniels noise is about Minnesota moving up to #2 to draft him. It's been mentioned here and elsewhere that he's the kind of guy you need to build around in specific ways. Minnesota is much more advanced than the other QB deprived teams.

That's not a deal that makes much sense for Washington since they need someone too, but who knows. They could consider themselves to be on a longer rebuild with new owners etc.

I just hope Maye is there for the Pats.

WAS GM has basically said he isn't trading. Sure if someone offers him 5 1sts or something crazy they would reconsider but they seem to have their pick locked in at this point.

 

[E5 Yaz]

"But we only need one team to be complicit, and hopefully we can find that team. I may or may not have sent a nice bouquet of flowers to Robert Kraft the other day.” -- Kevin O'Connell
https://nesn.com/2024/04/kevin-oconnell-sends-subtle-message-to-patriots-robert-kraft/

 

[tims4wins]

"But we only need one team to be complicit, and hopefully we can find that team. I may or may not have sent a nice bouquet of flowers to Robert Kraft the other day.” -- Kevin O'Connell
https://nesn.com/2024/04/kevin-oconnell-sends-subtle-message-to-patriots-robert-kraft/

11, 23, 2025 1st, 2026 1st, deal.

 

[nighthob]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

I think a bigger issue might be that Daniels (and McCarthy) might just be guys that need a lot of help around them to be effective, whereas a guy like Williams elevates the quality of your receiving corps by himself. A team like the Vikings might be better suited to carry those two guys than a team like New England.

 

[BaseballJones]

Jayden Daniels sure is polarizing. We have folks like our esteemed @SMU_Sox (who is really good at this) saying that Daniels is not an elite prospect, and then articles like this that have him ranked ahead of Maye (and has Maye at #23 behind McCarthy!).

Here's what he says about Daniels: "Daniels threw 40 TD passes and four interceptions in his 2023 Heisman Trophy-winning season, averaging a FBS-high 11.7 yards per attempt. He also rushed for 1,184 yards and 10 TDs last season. Daniels' slight frame might concern some teams, especially since he doesn't shy away from contact. But he plays with awareness, possesses high-end decision-making skills and maintains consistent accuracy all over the field. Some NFL personnel executives have Daniels graded as high as Williams."

So yeah, I have no idea who REALLY is a top level prospect and who is not. It seems like it all depends on who you ask.

 

[Auger34]

I think the Kingsbury offense is a great fit for Daniels' strengths and weaknesses..... but.... Daniels is not a perfect fit for Kingsbury's offense (which he ideally does not want to be 1 read and run).

Kingsbury's ideal QB doesn't really look like Jayden Daniels, or even Kyler.... he looks like Caleb Williams. Able to run RPO, able to scramble for gains, but also able to just say F' it and run around and play backyard football while the WRs just get open. He talked earlier this year about wanting to do more play action than traditional air raid, and that he wouldn't say he is an air raid system.

I think if they draft Daniels, Kingsbury will be happy, he'll put more designed runs in the playbook, and reduce the route concepts.

If the draft Maye... Kingsbury will be happy, he'll add more PA deep shots and more route concepts over the middle, more bootlegs, etc.

Both guys have strenghts that play well into components of the offense but also areas that aren't perfect fits.

The ideal Kingsbury QB is (as he has said).... Patrick Mahomes. He wants to have a guy who CAN run on some plays, but escaping to throw is also a component he really wants, he doesn't want to run Greg Roman's pass concepts.

I mean….everyones ideal QB right now is Patrick Mahomes. He could be the best ever. That’s not unique to Kliff.
Same with the ideal in this class being Caleb Williams…he’s the undisputed best QB and #1 player. Everyone would take him first. Neither of these really mean anything

The question is Daniels or Maye in that offense. I maintain that Kliff’s offense is better suited to Daniels by a decent amount than Maye.

Yes, he can add components, but the basic offense is RPO and first read. The Solak piece that you posted has Daniels as by far the best QB hitting his first read. Maye is better after the first read.

 

[Bowser]

11, 23, 2025 1st, 2026 1st, deal.

Does 23 plus Justin Jefferson for 3 get it done? Because that's what happened in this mock draft.

Edit: I say no. But Jefferson + 11? I say yes.

 

[tims4wins]

Does 23 plus Justin Jefferson for 3 get it done? Because that's what happened in this mock draft.

No. What’s the point of that? Just draft Harrison and pay him like 30% of what Jefferson makes.

11, 23, and Jefferson… maybe

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean….everyones ideal QB right now is Patrick Mahomes. He could be the best ever. That’s not unique to Kliff.
Same with the ideal in this class being Caleb Williams…he’s the undisputed best QB and #1 player. Everyone would take him first. Neither of these really mean anything

The question is Daniels or Maye in that offense. I maintain that Kliff’s offense is better suited to Daniels by a decent amount than Maye.

Yes, he can add components, but the basic offense is RPO and first read. The Solak piece that you posted has Daniels as by far the best QB hitting his first read. Maye is better after the first read.

I noted Caleb because they were together last year and Kliff had some influence on the offense he ran.

The big difference we have in our views is I don't think Kliff's offense is really 1st read, early in ARI he may have cut it down to help cover Kyler's weaknesses particularly over the middle. But I think he wants to run more USC stuff with multiple reads at multiple levels and an emphasis on a QB who can throw on the move (where Daniels struggles).
It's less that I think Daniels isn't a fit at all than that either guy fits well, Daniels a bit more explosive on the RPO, Maye better on the move and throwing middle crossers.
I think Kliff's offense is not going to be a major factor in the QB pick at all, and this idea that Kliff means Jayden no matter what is flawed.

 

[Auger34]

I noted Caleb because they were together last year and Kliff had some influence on the offense he ran.

The big difference we have in our views is I don't think Kliff's offense is really 1st read, early in ARI he may have cut it down to help cover Kyler's weaknesses particularly over the middle. But I think he wants to run more USC stuff with multiple reads at multiple levels and an emphasis on a QB who can throw on the move (where Daniels struggles).
It's less that I think Daniels isn't a fit at all than that either guy fits well, Daniels a bit more explosive on the RPO, Maye better on the move and throwing middle crossers.
I think Kliff's offense is not going to be a major factor in the QB pick at all, and this idea that Kliff means Jayden no matter what is flawed.

how is his offense going not going to be a major factor at all? That makes 0 sense. They just hired the guy, and actually chased after him since he accepted the Raiders OC position first. Clearly that’s the offense Dan Quinn wants to run. And if you chase a guy to be your OC, and pay him enough to back out on an offer that he already accepted, then hes obviously going to have a seat at the decision table.

And again, Daniels to the WFT has been pretty widely reported by very trustworthy sources.

 

[Cellar-Door]

how is his offense going not going to be a major factor at all? That makes 0 sense. They just hired the guy, and actually chased after him since he accepted the Raiders OC position first. Clearly that’s the offense Dan Quinn wants to run. And if you chase a guy to be your OC, and pay him enough to back out on an offer that he already accepted, then hes obviously going to have a seat at the decision table.

And again, Daniels to the WFT has been pretty widely reported by very trustworthy sources.

I think you miss my point... Either QB works for the system, Kliff will have some say, but it's not like Penix is in the mix or something. Both guys are good fits for Kliff. Sure.. Good sources say Daniels... But offense fit is almost certainly not a major factor.

Edit- they pursued Kliff because they want him to run the offense, not Because they picked a QB and decided Kliff's offense fit that guy

 

[Auger34]

I think you miss my point... Either QB works for the system, Kliff will have some say, but it's not like Penix is in the mix or something. Both guys are good fits for Kliff. Sure.. Good sources say Daniels... But offense fit is almost certainly not a major factor.

Edit- they pursued Kliff because they want him to run the offense, not Because they picked a QB and decided Kliff's offense fit that guy

Ok, we just are talking past each other at this point. If they want him to run an offense then it matters what guy fits his offense better. If they went out of their way to hire him, then I imagine that offense fit will 100% be a major factor.

It doesn’t seem like you’re going to budge from your opinion and I’m not either

and about your edit..that makes no sense. They hired the dude early in the draft process…so you’re mixing up the timeline to prove a point. They hired him to run the offense and to give input on the draft as to which QBs help him run that offense…..they obviously didn’t decide they wanted Daniels and then hired Kingsbury after.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Kingsbury is a talented offensive coordinator/playcaller. The idea that they’d take a guy whose skill set (physical/mental) they evaluate as worse simply because he’s a “better fit” when the two options are both guys who have the requisite skills to succeed in the scheme is questionable at best.

They’re going to take the guy who they think has the best chances of becoming a star regardless of Kingsbury’s presence. Kingsbury then can make whatever tweaks he needs to in order to cater to his specific QB.

Adam Peters isn’t going to draft Daniels on the basis of being “better for Kliff” because there’s a very good chance Daniels (if he succeeds) would outlast Kliff.

Unless the two prospects are graded out virtually identically or the physical profiles are radically different, I can’t imagine any GM using scheme fit as the deciding factor for a QB simply because of the value in ensuring you have the most talented possible guy at that position. Kingsbury made his offense work with Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, Davis Webb and to a lesser extent Nic Shimonek. Those guys are all over the place in terms of physical tools and play styles and none of them are really carbon copies of Daniels. The idea that his scheme requires one specific type of player or that Daniels would be a perfect fit and Maye wouldn’t be doesn’t really make sense given Kingbsury’s experience coaching and developing different types of guys.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

It's going to be Drake Maye and we're either gonna love him or we're gonna hate him. No in-between.

 

[E5 Yaz]

It's going to be Drake Maye and we're either gonna love him or we're gonna hate him. No in-between.

We're going to love him ... then we're going to hate him

 

[Ferm Sheller]

We're going to love him ... then we're going to hate him

Yes. Been there, done that.

 

[Willie Clay's Big Play]

Kingsbury is a talented offensive coordinator/playcaller. The idea that they’d take a guy whose skill set (physical/mental) they evaluate as worse simply because he’s a “better fit” when the two options are both guys who have the requisite skills to succeed in the scheme is questionable at best.

They’re going to take the guy who they think has the best chances of becoming a star regardless of Kingsbury’s presence. Kingsbury then can make whatever tweaks he needs to in order to cater to his specific QB.

Adam Peters isn’t going to draft Daniels on the basis of being “better for Kliff” because there’s a very good chance Daniels (if he succeeds) would outlast Kliff.

Unless the two prospects are graded out virtually identically or the physical profiles are radically different, I can’t imagine any GM using scheme fit as the deciding factor for a QB simply because of the value in ensuring you have the most talented possible guy at that position. Kingsbury made his offense work with Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, Davis Webb and to a lesser extent Nic Shimonek. Those guys are all over the place in terms of physical tools and play styles and none of them are really carbon copies of Daniels. The idea that his scheme requires one specific type of player or that Daniels would be a perfect fit and Maye wouldn’t be doesn’t really make sense given Kingbsury’s experience coaching and developing different types of guys.

Well said. The number 2 pick in the draft will not come down to scheme fit. Picks made much later, sure.

I fell into this thinking earlier on in the off-season and attributed it to my familiarity with BB making picks based on fit. Some worked, some didn’t. BB had much more security than anyone picking at the top of the draft to make his picks based on fit.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Kingsbury is a talented offensive coordinator/playcaller. The idea that they’d take a guy whose skill set (physical/mental) they evaluate as worse simply because he’s a “better fit” when the two options are both guys who have the requisite skills to succeed in the scheme is questionable at best.

They’re going to take the guy who they think has the best chances of becoming a star regardless of Kingsbury’s presence. Kingsbury then can make whatever tweaks he needs to in order to cater to his specific QB.

Adam Peters isn’t going to draft Daniels on the basis of being “better for Kliff” because there’s a very good chance Daniels (if he succeeds) would outlast Kliff.

Unless the two prospects are graded out virtually identically or the physical profiles are radically different, I can’t imagine any GM using scheme fit as the deciding factor for a QB simply because of the value in ensuring you have the most talented possible guy at that position. Kingsbury made his offense work with Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, Davis Webb and to a lesser extent Nic Shimonek. Those guys are all over the place in terms of physical tools and play styles and none of them are really carbon copies of Daniels. The idea that his scheme requires one specific type of player or that Daniels would be a perfect fit and Maye wouldn’t be doesn’t really make sense given Kingbsury’s experience coaching and developing different types of guys.

Yeah this is a better worded version of what I was trying to say.

 

[Jimbodandy]

We're going to love him ... then we're going to hate him

If everything goes well, we'll hate him and then love him.

 

[chilidawg]

Pats Pulpit had an article with this quote from Dan Quinn re Daniels and Maye:

“[LSU] had concepts, and looks, and different things that Jayden has been able to really process things quickly,” he said. “He may not run as much as Drake does… but he has real decision making process, like fast.”

As for Maye, Quinn said: “I think what you see is the ability to create and get outside on the run. When the protection break down — boom, he create and can go. That’s one of his super powers, for sure.”

Another important trait the head coach looks for in his evaluation: experience. And entering the draft, Daniels has totaled 3,418 snaps compared to Maye’s 1,998.“You know what else helps, just playing experience. For anyone who plays quarterback, just having snaps - like thousands of snaps, that’s a big deal, man,” Quinn added. “You don’t want to take somebody who doesn’t have a lot of snaps. You want to have been in the fight, see the game.”

https://www.patspulpit.com/2024/4/21/24135159/sunday-patriots-notes-commanders-quarterback-nfl-draft

 

[MikeM]

The consensus, if there is one, on this board is that Maye is better than Daniels. There’s also a good bit of opinion out there that if Maye is gone, the Pats should trade #3 “for a haul” because Daniels isn’t worth #3.

I know we don’t like the idea, but if Maye goes #2, are we really getting a haul for #3? Maybe other teams also think Daniel’s isn’t worth #3?

Far to many people are just adopting this necessary to the narrative implication that Minny will be equally interested in making a godfather offer regardless what QB falls to 3. Assuming that they are even indeed *that* interested in trading up in the first place.

From a reality standpoint I don't believe that is probably the case at all.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Far to many people are just adopting this necessary to the narrative implication that Minny will be equally interested in making a godfather offer regardless what QB falls to 3. Assuming that they are even indeed *that* interested in trading up in the first place.

From a reality standpoint I don't believe that is probably the case at all.

yeah I think it seems clear from the KOC comments, the McCown connection and various reporting by MIN people that they want Maye. Maybe they'd move up for one of the others, but I don't think they'd want to move as high or be as motivated.

 

[DJnVa]

Dude on Ringer NFL Draft pod: "Williams and Maye are the next Mahomes and Allen."

 

[BaseballJones]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-draft-rumors-this-nfl-coach-says-its-a-no-brainer-hed-take-jayden-daniels-over-caleb-williams/

...one NFL head coach who doesn't need a quarterback wouldn't take Williams first overall. This coach wouldn't even take North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye overall, a player many view as the 2024 draft's second-best quarterback prospect. He would go with LSU fifth-year quarterback Jayden Daniels, the 2023 Heisman Trophy winner, over both Williams and Maye if his team had control over the first overall pick.

"It's a no-brainer to me," an anonymous head coach said, per ESPN. "Jayden looks like the best guy in this draft."



So YMMV.... LOL I have no idea what to think about any of these guys anymore.

 

[j44thor]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-draft-rumors-this-nfl-coach-says-its-a-no-brainer-hed-take-jayden-daniels-over-caleb-williams/

...one NFL head coach who doesn't need a quarterback wouldn't take Williams first overall. This coach wouldn't even take North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye overall, a player many view as the 2024 draft's second-best quarterback prospect. He would go with LSU fifth-year quarterback Jayden Daniels, the 2023 Heisman Trophy winner, over both Williams and Maye if his team had control over the first overall pick.

"It's a no-brainer to me," an anonymous head coach said, per ESPN. "Jayden looks like the best guy in this draft."



So YMMV.... LOL I have no idea what to think about any of these guys anymore.

What is the point of interviewing a HC who doesn't need a QB what he thinks about the QB class? Did he google stats after the question was asked and inform his opinion then?

 

[BaseballJones]

What is the point of interviewing a HC who doesn't need a QB what he thinks about the QB class? Did he google stats after the question was asked and inform his opinion then?

I would assume that every NFL HC is pretty familiar with the top QBs in every draft class.

 

[j44thor]

I would assume that every NFL HC is pretty familiar with the top QBs in every draft class.

Being familiar doesn't mean scouted to the extent their opinion is worthwhile especially when they aren't looking at the QB position in the first place and certainly aren't looking at the QBs available at the very top of the draft. I just don't understand why every media outlet has to find alternative opinions just to post for clicks. This guy didn't even say why he would take Jayden just that he "looks" the best whatever that means. Click farming at this time of year is just over the top. 99 execs like Caleb #1 so let's find an anonymous source that thinks someone else should be #1 and run with that.

 

[BaseballJones]

Being familiar doesn't mean scouted to the extent their opinion is worthwhile especially when they aren't looking at the QB position in the first place and certainly aren't looking at the QBs available at the very top of the draft. I just don't understand why every media outlet has to find alternative opinions just to post for clicks. This guy didn't even say why he would take Jayden just that he "looks" the best whatever that means. Click farming at this time of year is just over the top. 99 execs like Caleb #1 so let's find an anonymous source that thinks someone else should be #1 and run with that.

Well they are in the business of generating clicks, right?

 

[Justthetippett]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-draft-rumors-this-nfl-coach-says-its-a-no-brainer-hed-take-jayden-daniels-over-caleb-williams/

...one NFL head coach who doesn't need a quarterback wouldn't take Williams first overall. This coach wouldn't even take North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye overall, a player many view as the 2024 draft's second-best quarterback prospect. He would go with LSU fifth-year quarterback Jayden Daniels, the 2023 Heisman Trophy winner, over both Williams and Maye if his team had control over the first overall pick.

"It's a no-brainer to me," an anonymous head coach said, per ESPN. "Jayden looks like the best guy in this draft."



So YMMV.... LOL I have no idea what to think about any of these guys anymore.

Could also be a coach in the NFC East that is blowing smoke. Who knows. I kind of think all of this stuff is BS and gamesmanship.