Week 2 - Miami: Let’s Groove Tonight

[CFB_Rules]

1000%

Potentially, the biggest takeaway from this loss may be whether or not perhaps the vast majority of us actually know how spotting the ball works.

All eyes on @CFB_Rules …

I’ll go ahead and tell you right now there’s one crew that doesn’t spot the ball on a line and they have extra measurements and wonky stats.

The “official” NFL policy is to always spot the ball exactly where it is (of course). But this is a little trick of the trade that is near-universal (aside from the one crew mentioned above).

 

[Just a bit outside]

Dungy calling out the Pats for only having 1 LB in the box on the Mostert long TD run.

You would almost think a former coach would realize they were playing small to stop the long pass and might get burned against the run. I guess not.

 

[Justthetippett]

Agreed that they were bad spots. The only real difference was whether you could see the ball.

The "irrefutable evidence" standard is weirdly subjective sometimes. If someone says they're 6 feet tall but you can easily see with your naked eye from their surroundings that they are 5' 6" at most, but they aren't standing next to a measuring tape so you can't conclusively prove it, is that sufficient evidence? I doubt the rulebook answers that.

I think subjective is "jag-off sitting in Secaucus".

 

[Dewey's 'stache]

Stop trying to be the one honest cop in the town full of homers, some of you. Irrefutable evidence is the standard. That wasn’t in the fucking neighborhood of that. Who knows whether they would’ve capitalized, and they are completely pedestrian, blah team, at least offensively. And did plenty to earn the loss. But that was a fucking atrocious application of the replay rule. And robbed them of a chance.

This. I concur

 

[E5 Yaz]

ehn, too cheap

 

[cornwalls@6]

Or some of us just are realists? Not in the neighborhood? Do you have a different angle of the making it seem like it was close?

No, I watched the angles provided by NBC several times, and all were close, could’ve gone either way. But the call on the field was first down. I saw nothing that would irrefutably reverse that.

 

[lars10]

Idk. The reason they get hung up on these is that the angles can get very distorting without nearby field markings. From the angle shown, he was definitely short, but who knows if the camera was actually 90 degrees from the play. I'm sure we would have found another way to not score, but it's a shitty way for the game to end.

I think Collinsworth even said that they weren't near a hash so it was a lot harder to spot where he actually was.

 

[bankshot1]

50 ways to lose a ballgame.

Get down both feet Pete
Make the line of gain Wayne
Complete a throw Joe

We may see them all this year.

 

[shawnrbu]

I’ll go ahead and tell you right now there’s one crew that doesn’t spot the ball on a line and they have extra measurements and wonky stats.

The “official” NFL policy is to always spot the ball exactly where it is (of course). But this is a little trick of the trade that is near-universal (aside from the one crew mentioned above).

Gotta be Hochuli or Bogar.

 

[Rosey Ruzicka]

If that's the Jets instead of the patriots its 100 percent a first down.

 

[Dollar]

How about we paint every yard line in glow in the dark paint and turn off the lights to see if it's a first down?

 

[lars10]

Agree to disagree. This team is a good faith competitive also-ran. Sometimes that's what life deals you as a fan.

They've also played two very good teams and had both games end within inches of a first down on a drive that could have either tied or won the game. Anyone saying the Pats are the most boring team in the NFL aren't watching about 16-20 of the teams in the NFL.

 

[CFB_Rules]

Gotta be Hochuli or Bogar.

Boger got let go

 

[Dave Stapleton]

This team needs to make more plays. That is my point. The teams that were successful didn’t dominate other than 2007. There is a small margin and the Pats didn’t make mistakes. If they don’t turn the ball over the are likely 2-0 and at worst 1-1.

The D held Hill and Waddle to a total of 130 yds. They had the ball with a chance to win/tie two games in a row agains teams currently favored to win their division.

 

[Reverend]

Boger got let go

 

[E5 Yaz]

Agree to disagree. This team is a good faith competitive also-ran. Sometimes that's what life deals you as a fan.

The "Patriots are boring" narrative is a national media talking point this year. Heard a bunch of times

 

[ManicCompression]

No, I watched the angles provided by NBC several times, and all were close, could’ve gone either way. But the call on the field was first down. I saw nothing that would irrefutably reverse that.

Great. I watched it a dozen times too and every single time strange’s knee goes down as the ball is behind the line. “Irrefutable” is a fudgy word but it seemed clear to me that the ruling on the field was wrong.

It has nothing to do with being “an honest cop.” It’s just the reality of what happened, and the Rhamondre play was quite different and less clear. Fine if you don’t agree, but I don’t need to pass your fan cred test because I don’t fall in line with your need to play pretend.

 

[lars10]

The "Patriots are boring" narrative is a national media talking point this year. Heard a bunch of times

Well if the national media said it..

 

[The Social Chair]

They've also played two very good teams and had both games end within inches of a first down on a drive that could have either tied or won the game. Anyone saying the Pats are the most boring team in the NFL aren't watching about 16-20 of the teams in the NFL.

Boring doesn't mean bad. Close games aren't always exciting either.

The Patriots are stylistically dull on offense, with no elite skill players, and an aggressively mediocre QB who throws a bad ball. Defense is fun to watch though.

 

[lars10]

Great. I watched it a dozen times too and every single time strange’s knee goes down as the ball is behind the line. “Irrefutable” is a fudgy word but it seemed clear to me that the ruling on the field was wrong.

It has nothing to do with being “an honest cop.” It’s just the reality of what happened, and the Rhamondre play was quite different and less clear. Fine if you don’t agree, but I don’t need to pass your fan cred test because I don’t fall in line with your need to play pretend.

The call was a first down on the field. The whole intent of 'irrefutable' is to make it have to be 100% clear that the call on the field was wrong. We've all seen the call on the field be clearly wrong, but the NFL use the 'irrefutable' line to not overturn. To overturn based off of camera angles without measuring just seems to be outside of that standard.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

The "Patriots are boring" narrative is a national media talking point this year. Heard a bunch of times

They are “boring” in the sense that they don’t score of a lot of points and they don’t have any stars on offense.

The national media has always valued flashy players over solid fundamentals, it’s why the Pats were underrated for years during the first part of the Brady era. (Not comparing those teams with this one, just saying for most casual fans/media members the “fun” and “good” teams are the ones with the most players who might be on someone’s fantasy team.)

 

[Justthetippett]

If the cr

The "Patriots are boring" narrative is a national media talking point this year. Heard a bunch of times

If the criteria is a big play offense, then yes, they are boring. But this team plays very entertaining games.

 

[luckiestman]

If that's the Jets instead of the patriots its 100 percent a first down.

wait, what?

 

[Groovenstein]

Boring doesn't mean bad. Close games aren't always exciting either.

The Patriots are stylistically dull on offense, with no elite skill players, and an aggressively mediocre QB who throws a bad ball. Defense is fun to watch though.

These are many of the same people who said SB 53 was boring. Meh.

 

[ifmanis5]

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1703619411410657764

"Can't play everybody." - Bill Belichick when asked about Demario Douglas not getting any offensive snaps after the fumble.

 

[ifmanis5]

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1703617571990233378

Lot of frustration in the #Patriots locker room as you’d expect. Biggest message going around is better starts and how tough it is to play from behind. More the story than the failed comeback.

 

[ManicCompression]

The call was a first down on the field. The whole intent of 'irrefutable' is to make it have to be 100% clear that the call on the field was wrong. We've all seen the call on the field be clearly wrong, but the NFL use the 'irrefutable' line to not overturn. To overturn based off of camera angles without measuring just seems to be outside of that standard.

I’m well aware of the rule. And we’d all be saying how irrefutable it is right now if the call was the same on a Miami player. People in this thread thought that Mapu shouldn’t have been called for a personal foul. Hardly objective.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1703619411410657764

"Can't play everybody." - Bill Belichick when asked about Demario Douglas not getting any offensive snaps after the fumble.

Some things never change…

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I don't think Schooler or Pop Douglas or Mac on a roll out is boring. I don't think their TEs are boring.

The only really boring aspect to the team is what opposing pass rushers are doing to the Pats OL.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

I’m well aware of the rule. And we’d all be saying how irrefutable it is right now if the call was the same on a Miami player. People in this thread thought that Mapu shouldn’t have been called for a personal foul. Hardly objective.

If you go on social media now it seems pretty split between those who think he got it and those who don’t. Not that social media is the be-all end-all but this isn’t a situation where the ONLY people who think it should have stood are die-hard Pats fans.

And if it’s debatable, the call on the field should stand. But that’s never how the NFL has actually done it.

 

[lars10]

I’m well aware of the rule. And we’d all be saying how irrefutable it is right now if the call was the same on a Miami player. People in this thread thought that Mapu shouldn’t have been called for a personal foul. Hardly objective.

Bolded has absolutely zero to do with what we're talking about.

edit: you also said 'irrefutable' was sort of a sketchy word.. what I'm saying is that by the standard that the NFL has set up that that call isn't overturned. To try and turn around and say that Pats fans aren't being objective.. seems weak.

 

[wpilsbury]

What happened to the run game? That was the alleged strength of this offense coming into the season. Mondre and Zeke were 20 for 63yds against a team that gave up 200 yards last week.

 

[catomatic]

The NASA metaphor finds still apter application: I just watched that replay 17 times and genoasalami is oscarmayerbologna, there was nothing irrefutable about that evidence. You’d need Sine, Cosine and Tangent on the camera angle in relation to the hash mark in order to call that irrefutable. To argue otherwise is unsupportable. NFL has no skin in the game but their spots for the Patriots happened to blow chunks repeatedly tonight. The right call was made on the field and was a new series of downs. Anything else is faux certitude and moreover lacks all valor.

 

[luckiestman]

Here is why the Pats are not boring to me. I think their talent is below average. I figure they will be close to winning but I don’t know how they will do it, so it’s like watching Columbo or something. Tonight we got the awesome show zero but rush to fill the slant before the ball gets there followed up by the in motion special teams shenanigans.

 

[ManicCompression]

Bolded has absolutely zero to do with what we're talking about

It does because people disagreeing with calls are “honest cops.”

 

[ManicCompression]

And if it’s debatable, the call on the field should stand. But that’s never how the NFL has actually done it.

so if it’s never how the nfl has done it, because it has to be irrefutable to one person rather than a collection of people, why should we be surprised that it’s overturned?

 

[Dave Stapleton]

I’m well aware of the rule. And we’d all be saying how irrefutable it is right now if the call was the same on a Miami player. People in this thread thought that Mapu shouldn’t have been called for a personal foul. Hardly objective.

I think the frustration for the Mapu play is the rule. Mapu clearly didn’t intend to hit him in the head. He started his move before the ball was dislodged. The rule is intent doesn’t matter. Like the rules official said “strict liability”. It’s frustrating when something that doesn’t involve someone doing something intentionally against the rules or making a mistake Impacts the game. That is what I think you saw.

Not sure what he doesn’t differently if he’s trying to prevent a completion. Doesn’t mean it’s not a penalty but still frustrating.

 

[Just a bit outside]

It does because people disagreeing with calls are “honest cops.”

I think the problem is irrefutable. Was he short? Probably, more likely than not, beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes to all those. Is it irrefutable? I would say no.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

so if it’s never how the nfl has done it, because it has to be irrefutable to one person rather than a collection of people, why should we be surprised that it’s overturned?

I’m not surprised at all that it was overturned. I said it would be probably be overturned before they announced it. But that doesn’t mean it’s the RIGHT call.

 

[lars10]

What happened to the run game? That was the alleged strength of this offense coming into the season. Mondre and Zeke were 20 for 63yds against a team that gave up 200 yards last week.

Both weeks they've been playing from behind by 14+ points.. hard to run when you're playing catch up. Also.. their O-Line isn't all that good at the moment.

 

[ManicCompression]

I think the problem is irrefutable. Was he short? Probably, more likely than not, beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes to all those. Is it irrefutable? I would say no.

irrefutable to who? All people on earth or just the ref? Because it is irrefutable to a number of people, including apparently the ref.
It’s a badly worded rule but some of this shit has to be subjective. The weird fan cred test being pushed on posters who saw the replay and thought it was rightfully overturned is just weird and thats what I’m responding to.

 

[shawnrbu]

Did anyone ask BB if he planned to go for 2 if it was 24-23?

 

[shawnrbu]

Tyreek Hill has things to say about Patriots fans:

View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1703622742229017081?s=46&t=ZAV_cHcUClrN1Zdq09T1Aw


“Those fans are probably some of the worst fans in the NFL, and I’m gonna stand on that.
They are real nasty and some of the things they were saying, I wouldn’t say in church.”

 

[catomatic]

irrefutable to who? All people on earth or just the ref? Because it is irrefutable to a number of people, including apparently the ref.
It’s a badly worded rule but some of this shit has to be subjective. The weird fan cred test being pushed on posters who saw the replay and thought it was rightfully overturned is just weird and thats what I’m responding to.

Rhamondre could only have been short if he was carrying the ball between his thighs. Their standard sucks, is inconsistent and they do nothing to improve on it. People are right to be pissed.

 

[cornwalls@6]

It does because people disagreeing with calls are “honest cops.”

And those disagreeing with your view of the replay are “playing pretend”. And are homers would be screaming if it were the dolphins with the ball. And something about Mapu. Neat.

 

[Dave Stapleton]

Tyreek Hill has things to say about Patriots fans:

View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1703622742229017081?s=46&t=ZAV_cHcUClrN1Zdq09T1Aw


“Those fans are probably some of the worst fans in the NFL, and I’m gonna stand on that.
They are real nasty and some of the things they were saying, I wouldn’t say in church.”

I am sure they are aware of his history and let him know that.

 

[Just a bit outside]

Tyreek Hill has things to say about Patriots fans:

View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1703622742229017081?s=46&t=ZAV_cHcUClrN1Zdq09T1Aw


“Those fans are probably some of the worst fans in the NFL, and I’m gonna stand on that.
They are real nasty and some of the things they were saying, I wouldn’t say in church.”

Why would you say nasty things in church? I’m not a churchgoer but that seems like a strange comparison.

 

[8slim]

Tyreek Hill has things to say about Patriots fans:

View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1703622742229017081?s=46&t=ZAV_cHcUClrN1Zdq09T1Aw


“Those fans are probably some of the worst fans in the NFL, and I’m gonna stand on that.
They are real nasty and some of the things they were saying, I wouldn’t say in church.”

Does Tyreek beat his girlfriend and hit his kid in church?

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Rhamondre could only have been short if he was carrying the ball between his thighs. Their standard sucks, is inconsistent and they do nothing to improve on it. People are right to be pissed.

They should just get rid of the ability to review/overturn the spot of the ball at all. It’s about as accurate as back when they toyed with being able to review PI.

 

[ManicCompression]

And those disagreeing with your view of the replay are “playing pretend”. And are homers would be screaming if it were the dolphins with the ball. And something about Mapu. Neat.

Not quite. You’re entitled to your opinion. Expecting me to go along with it because I shouldn’t be an “honest cop” would be playing pretend.