The drive after the strip sack set the tone. They didn’t fold and came right back and punched Philly in the mouth.
Week 10 Game Thread
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Probably a blessing in disguise for Philly. The undefeated noise would have just gotten louder as the season went on.
Yes, although if you're going to drop a random game, you wouldn't want it to be one in the division.
1. Heinecke’s pass didn’t make the line of scrimmage. Difference of 20+ yards.
2. Personal foul for hitting a ball carrier while he was literally still in-bounds. 15 yards.
3. Miss an obvious face mask penalty. Should have been Philly ball +15 yards instead turnover.
4. The ridiculous game-ending flop.
Philly earned the L themselves but none of that shit helped matters.
2. Personal foul for hitting a ball carrier while he was literally still in-bounds. 15 yards.
3. Miss an obvious face mask penalty. Should have been Philly ball +15 yards instead turnover.
4. The ridiculous game-ending flop.
Philly earned the L themselves but none of that shit helped matters.
I thought it did
helmet 2 helmet
true
obvious penalty
…..
I thought the dpi to set up TD wasn’t that clear, both guys pushy/grabby
I don't remember the Heinicke pass. The face mask miss was egregious. You're wrong about the fourth one - Graham took three steps at a guy who was on his knees having given himself up and piled into him. It wasn't a CRUSHING blow, and yes Heinecke played it up a little, but Graham had every opportunity to not hit him at all.
This is the moment Heinicke's knee hits the ground to give himself up. Notice where Graham is:
Graham is higher on the screen than #53 for Washington. That's a good five yards away. And this is the moment (having run it forward and backward several times to make sure) when Heinicke's knee is down.
From this point, Graham takes a step with his right foot, a step with his left foot, another step with his right foot, and dives at Heinicke.
It wasn't the worst, crushing hit ever, obviously, but it was ENTIRELY avoidable, and he chose not to avoid it. One of the easiest calls the refs had to make all night long. (Unfortunately for Philly, one of the OTHER easiest calls they had all night was the face mask on Goedert that they missed.)
Here's the play again:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6BQVfM1Yeo
Attachments
I think it's probably the right call. However, I think Graham's argument is probably that he was touching Heinicke down. There was no whistle until right before the hit and Heinicke was moving some. Graham didn't hit him hard. Most likely trying to get the clock stopped as soon as possible. Nonetheless while Heinicke didn't slide, it was pretty clear he was giving himself up. Close call but in this day and age, that hit is going to draw the flag more often than not.
The whistle came and Graham took two more steps. I know the speed of the game is really fast, but this was a no-brainer call by the refs. They'll call that every time.
I’m sorry but this is simply not true. The whistle had not blown by the time Graham was into his slide. Literally no whistle until then. I just watched it again to make sure. I’d find the video and post it here but I’m on my phone.
Graham accepted responsibility for the penalty post game. The reporters tried to get him to say something controversial but the closest he would come is to say he was just trying to get him down and he thought he was trying to get up. I can believe a scenario where Graham is rushing a QB, sees him on the ground, sees his left leg moving from a kneeling to a getting up position, hears no whistle, and slides in to touch him down. All within like a second during a make or break play.
That whistle at that moment was bullshit.
Agreed except for (2). That was for helmet-to-helmet. Aikman - who appears to be against all player safety penalties despite getting knocked silly in his career - missed that.
I understand the point people are trying to make on "they always call that", but a QB taking a knee 3-4 seconds into a play is incredibly uncommon, and Heinicke (sp?) totally flopped. I am biased, admittedly, but I don't think that the cause of player safety was well served on this one. Graham was clearly into his hit, did everything he could not to hit him hard and didn't hit him hard at all. Heinicke sold it, and the refs bought it.
The Eagles played a poor game and as a result, bad calls were able to make a difference. There you go.
Not an Eagles fan, but one of my exes is—she is a dyed and bleeding green fanatic since Larry Bowa flirted with 300 and luzinski stomped Schmidt in the dinger race. I’d been pulling for her stupid team against the astros and NOW!!
she agrees with Monsignor yam bag above.
Unless Corey Clement is involved and then it’s easy but the wrong call made for sport.
I chalk last night's egregious officiating to karmic retribution for Yammer's hubris in the Pats franchise thread. But he's not wrong: it was def. atrocious.
There is some fault to the official on that last play in that they really needed to blow the whistle as soon as his knee hit the ground. It was clear he was attempting to give himself up and the refs should be quicker on that.
But, players are allowed to take a knee to give themselves up anywhere on the field. The defense needs to know that and act accordingly. The hit was simply way too late.
Dre Greenlaw got ejected for a hit that had less intent than the one on the sideline. It was a helmet-to-helmet. That was just a bad job by the announce team continually claiming it was for a late hit. That's a foul in today's NFL.
But, players are allowed to take a knee to give themselves up anywhere on the field. The defense needs to know that and act accordingly. The hit was simply way too late.
Dre Greenlaw got ejected for a hit that had less intent than the one on the sideline. It was a helmet-to-helmet. That was just a bad job by the announce team continually claiming it was for a late hit. That's a foul in today's NFL.
Whistles don't kill the play, and it's basically impossible to blow it in time for players to avoid late action. The Referee blew it dead almost immediately, and it was before contact. Players near the ball carrier need to be aware of when the ball is dead.
I have stopped taking any complaints about the 2017 season playoff officiating seriously ever since this forum nearly burned down claiming that Alshon Jeffery wasn't on the line during the Philly Special.
Agree to disagree. I am generally VERY much on the side of player safety calls. Every hit to the head or QB slaughter means that we get fewer kids being allowed to play football every year. But this one was a bad call. It was a 100% flop. Heinicke didn't even pretend to be mildly hurt, he immediately went into high energy going for the flag. Calls like that and the Brady Roughing the Passer early in the season give meatheads ammo that we need to kill these rules, and right now those rules are keeping the game on life support at lower levels.
Can you imagine dying and having God tell you that the Red Sox didn't win for all those years because your grandfather refused to wear the green socks that he thought were unlucky, but he forgot that he got a great job the same night that the Celtics lost so he thought they were unlucky? I think about this a lot. Like....what if stupid superstitions are way more determining than we think?
People are also questioning the non-grounding call after the bad snap, saying the ball didn't cross the line of scrimmage. Yet on the replay, the ball is seen going past the yard marker. What were your thoughts on that play?
Players that give themselves up don't need to be touched down either do they?
I was way more torch and pitchfork about the catch in the back of the end zone that had been ruled an incompletion all season up until Riveron decided to enforce next year’s rule change a few months early. But after five rings and everything it took to get there, there may have been some karmic retribution of our own going on.
This would be a great thread topic actually.
If Heinicke doesn't play it up I don't think he gets the flag. It was obvious Graham was trying to avoid contact albeit much too late and people celebrate touchdowns together more physically than that (is the name of the penalty "roughing" still relevant?) but as football takes one step towards soccer and basketball with the flopping ... the real losers here were neutral (kinda) fans like me missing the excitement of a final drive. Jalen throwing a pick six with zero on the clock would have been preferable
All of this week’s excitement had been rolled into the Vikings-Bills game. The owners deliberated but decided they couldn’t spare any more.
I think they blow it dead pretty quickly. It's just
That flag was coming regardless of Heinicke's reaction imo. I think Heinicke was probably hoping to induce conduct and he did. Maybe he flopped. He certainly wasn't hurt but I think the flag was getting thrown no matter what.
No. That's kind of the whole point of giving yourself up. Stop the play before you get hit. Defensive player needs to be aware. Graham was trying to get there and get the quick stop but he knows he needs to be more aware there.
That flag was coming regardless of Heinicke's reaction imo. I think Heinicke was probably hoping to induce conduct and he did. Maybe he flopped. He certainly wasn't hurt but I think the flag was getting thrown no matter what.
Which I think had even worse officiating. NFL referees really do their best to kill an excellent product.
Maybe it was his excessive celebration like he had just thrown the winning touchdown after coming back from 28-3 when all he did was merely induce a roughing penalty that supremely irked me.
You got fucking barely touched by some guy's bad decision Chad.
The missed face mask play gets worse for Eagles fans. Dallas Goedert is going to miss extended time with a shoulder injury.
Oh, I agree it was excessive and annoying. Probably not a factor in the call but over the top.
That's a big piece of this for me. He literally appealed for the flag and then ran around like he had done something athletically challenging. Roughing the Passer and similar penalties are important in keeping the game safe. Flopping to draw a flag is a terrible precedent.
We know that the audio from the announcers is often on less of a delay than the video. Does that include the audio from the field of play? I am very hesitant to base any opinion on when the whistle blew because I assume the sync with the video is off.
Then go by when Heinicke gives himself up. Graham takes three more steps and hits him.
Honestly, it was a pretty no brainer call. I’d have been STUNNED if they didn’t throw a flag in that.
Yawn. Here is my party line, copied from another site: "The Super Bowl was clearly refereed very loosely. It was that way from the first drive to the last. The league had been hammered all year for refs deciding games and clearly the crew wanted to minimize their presence. Anyone who wants to find "that (non-hold/non-PI/whatever) was a penalty all year long!!!" can find plenty of material. But it was refereed consistently for both sides and it was a masterpiece of a game. Tom Brady played his greatest SB and the game hinged on great plays that were well designed. Stop whining."
I don't think it would. Hearing about everyone's superstition(s) would make me want to set my eyes on fire. But I am a harsh critic of my own content, you know?
Look, not everyone is used to their players playing that dumb and it causes all sorts of weird shit to happen in their brain. I am used to it; it is sort of a superpower for seeing the world clearly.
Honest question- how many times have you seen a QB take a knee (two, actually) after scrambling around with no defender around him? I don’t mean TB12 or Manning going to the ground to avoid a hit, I mean like QB us trying to make a play then just gives up even though he’s not under immediate pressure.
I think a more fair representation is that Graham clears the OL guy, sees TH on his knees with no Eagles around him, hasn’t heard a whistle and slides down towards him to touch him down. And you can add in that TH is indeed appearing to get up (watch his left leg).
No idea if it’s within the rules but it would have been great if the zebras penalized TH for taunting or excessive celebration and had the penalties offset with a replayed down. Although dead ball foul vs live ball wouldn’t really let that happen.
Every victory formation is a qb taking a knee. What does it change that TH ran around for a hot minute before he kneeled?
This reminds me of one of my least favorite plays, when Peyton Manning fell to the ground and seemed to give himself up, but the refs didn’t blow the play dead. He then got up and made a big throw.
View: https://youtu.be/Rk8wdxgj_xY
View: https://youtu.be/Rk8wdxgj_xY
Because in once scenario it's 100% expected, and in the other it's 100% not. Had TH been in victory formation and BG slid in and hit him I guess I'd be okay with that but like that's not what happened?
Usually the refs blow the whistle immediately as he takes the knee whereas here it took them over a second to do so.