Watson to Cleveland

joe dokes

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We're talking about Jimmy Haslam here. Guys like him *never* admit mistakes. At some point soon, he will double down on his support for Watson and cement their ride-or-die relationship.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I just have a nagging suspicion that the league let the Browns know prior to a trade what a punishment would look like for Watson. I have such a hard time imagining any team - even the Browns - are committing 5 years and a quarter of a billion to Watson without having some kind of idea what the league was going to do.

The league gives him 8 games, the Browns know that trading and signing a franchise QB for 5 years is worth the 8 games, and everyone wins. Texans get a boatload of picks, league gets another franchise QB to sell tickets, Browns get a franchise QB.

The only losers are the women who were raped.
 

JCizzle

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I just have a nagging suspicion that the league let the Browns know prior to a trade what a punishment would look like for Watson. I have such a hard time imagining any team - even the Browns - are committing 5 years and a quarter of a billion to Watson without having some kind of idea what the league was going to do.

The league gives him 8 games, the Browns know that trading and signing a franchise QB for 5 years is worth the 8 games, and everyone wins. Texans get a boatload of picks, league gets another franchise QB to sell tickets, Browns get a franchise QB.

The only losers are the women who were raped.
It looks like it will probably be a full season, pending appeals and such.

NFL to seek ‘significant’ suspension of Deshaun Watson - The Washington Post

The league “probably” will seek a suspension of one full season for Watson, a person on Watson’s side of the case said Friday. A person familiar with the league’s view of the case cautioned to be “careful” about specifying a precise length at this point for the suspension the NFL will seek. But that person also said: “Significant would be the proper term.”
 

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johnmd20

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When it comes to public relation crises, I believe 0% of what I hear. Sending out feeler reports to gauge public response has become standard practice for the NFL Illuminati.

Nothing in their history has shown a willingess to prioritize morality of the bottom line.
Yeah, but Watson getting a slap on the wrist is more of a PR disaster than the alternative. The bottom line will be hurt more by a weak suspension because people will rightfully lose their minds.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Yeah, but Watson getting a slap on the wrist is more of a PR disaster than the alternative. The bottom line will be hurt more by a weak suspension because people will rightfully lose their minds.
My recollection is that Big Ben and Elliot (6 games each) are the only two players to be suspended without criminal charges relating to the personal conduct policy. Winston, Hunt, Ward, and a few others were suspended without convictions, but the charges were created and then dropped.

Suspending Watson for a full year despite a grand jury declining to indict would be 3x longer than any "comparable" cases, and would be another lengthy legal battle (that the NFL would win) that the league has no interest in.

If he gets a full season, I'd be shocked. Barring any further changes, I'm still guessing 8 games. Gives them the appearance of a hard line - "longest suspension without a criminal indictment!" - and everyone goes on their merry way.

Again. Unless you were fucking raped.
 
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johnmd20

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My recollection is that Big Ben and Elliot (6 games each) are the only two players to be suspended without criminal charges. Winston, Hunt, Ward, and a few others were suspended without convictions, but the charges were created and then dropped.

Suspending Watson for a full year despite a grand jury declining to indict would be 3x longer than any "comparable" cases, and would be another lengthy legal battle (that the NFL would win) that the league has no interest in.

If he gets a full season, I'd be shocked. Barring any further changes, I'm still guessing 8 games. Gives them the appearance of a hard line - "longest suspension without a criminal indictment!" - and everyone goes on their merry way.

Again. Unless you were fucking raped.
What is that last line?

Hunt had one incident. Over 20 women have come out against Watson. It's a really significant different. And Ben R was in 2010. And it wasn't 25 people either. Needless to say, the world is a little different about sexual assault in 2010.

Maybe Watson doesn't get a year, I am not sure. But it wouldn't be good for the NFL if it was 8 games, at least in the short term. The press would be angry and rabid and incessant. (rightfully so) But once the games start, people will watch. They always watch.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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What is that last line?

Hunt had one incident. Over 20 women have come out against Watson. It's a really significant different. And Ben R was in 2010. And it wasn't 25 people either. Needless to say, the world is a little different about sexual assault in 2010.

Maybe Watson doesn't get a year, I am not sure. But it wouldn't be good for the NFL if it was 8 games, at least in the short term. The press would be angry and rabid and incessant. (rightfully so) But once the games start, people will watch. They always watch.
But in the eyes of the legal system, Watson has done nothing illegal. At least not worth indicating him for. The NFL won't care if it's one woman or 100. They can look at him as innocent and proceed accordingly.

With no smoking gun or criminal charges, I see no reason why the league would make a moral stand now. Yeah, Kareem Hunt was one incident, but he was also undeniably guilty based on the video we all saw of him stomping on a woman's head. There's a non-zero chance that Tyreek Hill ends up killing his fucking wife or kid, and the league couldn't give a shit.

Watson lines their wallets significantly more than either of them.
 
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mauf

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But in the eyes of the legal system, Watson has done nothing illegal. At least not worth indicating him for. The NFL won't care if it's one woman or 100. They can look at him as innocent and proceed accordingly.

With no smoking gun or criminal charges, I see no reason why the league would make a moral stand now. Yeah, Kareem Hunt was one incident, but he was also undeniably guilty based on the video we all saw of him stomping on a woman's head. There's a non-zero chance that Tyreek Hill ends up killing his fucking wife or kid, and the league couldn't give a shit.

Watson lines their wallets significantly more than either of them.
Pretty big difference between the NFL doing nothing about Tyreek Hill when his victim wants nothing more than for everyone to pretend it didn’t happen, and the NFL doing nothing about Deshawn Watson when two dozen victims are seeking justice in the courts.

I don’t know what assurances the league office gave the Browns, but if I’m in Goodell’s shoes, Watson doesn’t take the field until his legal issues are substantially behind him.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Pretty big difference between the NFL doing nothing about Tyreek Hill when his victim wants nothing more than for everyone to pretend it didn’t happen, and the NFL doing nothing about Deshawn Watson when two dozen victims are seeking justice in the courts.

I don’t know what assurances the league office gave the Browns, but if I’m in Goodell’s shoes, Watson doesn’t take the field until his legal issues are substantially behind him.
Well, the victim was a three year old AND his wife, but...When has the NFL ever cared about the victims? Not to relitigate the Hill situation, but he pleaded guilty to choking and hitting his pregnant girlfriend in 2014. The same women claimed he broke his 3 year olds arm. The DA stated that he, "believed a crime occured" but couldn't move forward without harder evidence.

Like civil courts, the NFL doesn't need the burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt." They absolutely could have moved forward with punishment.

Instead they issued a mealymouthed response that "based on the evidence presently available" they wouldn't suspend him. Which is their way of saying:

"Remember when we knew Ray Rice knocked his wife out in an elevator and we only suspended him two games? And then the video went public and we pretended we never saw the video? And then a bunch of independent sources said we DID see the video but only suspended him two games because we thought the video was with the police and would never see the light of day? And then we paid a completely impartial investigator named Robert Mueller - yes, that one - to investigate ourselves? And then the guy we paid a boatload of money to somehow found that, no, we actually had never seen the video and there's nothing to see here? What? We did the same thing when we paid "independent" investigators to determine if we were guilty during deflategate? No, not true. We'll even hire an independent firm to research that and tell you so."

Fuck. I got distracted...

Their statement on Hill was to absolve themselves if anything were to go public, like what happened to Rice. They absolutely could have and should have suspended him, and they don't need the permission of his wife to suspend him for snapping his 3 year olds arm. But the NFL doesn't give a shit about women or kids. Like the time they suspended Peterson a year for whipping his kid with a switch - because there were criminal charges - but pretended they didn't see the interview 3 years later when he admitted he still occasionally beats his kid with a fucking belt.

As to if Goodell will suspend Watson...well, I've already made my opinions known.
 
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mauf

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Well, the victim was a three year old AND his wife, but...When has the NFL ever cared about the victims? Not to relitigate the Hill situation, but he pleaded guilty to choking and hitting his pregnant girlfriend in 2014. The same women claimed he broke his 3 year olds arm. The DA stated that he, "believed a crime occured" but couldn't move forward without harder evidence.

Like civil courts, the NFL doesn't need the burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt." They absolutely could have moved forward with punishment.

Instead they issued a mealymouthed response that "based on the evidence presently available" they wouldn't suspend him. Which is their way of saying:

"Remember when we knew Ray Rice knocked his wife out in an elevator and we only suspended him two games? And then the video went public and we pretended we never saw the video? And then a bunch of independent sources said we DID see the video but only suspended him two games because we thought the video was with the police and would never see the light of day? And then we paid a completely impartial investigator named Robert Mueller - yes, that one - to investigate ourselves? And then the guy we paid a boatload of money to somehow found that, no, we actually had never seen the video and there's nothing to see here? What? We did the same thing when we paid "independent" investigators to determine if we were guilty during deflategate? No, not true. We'll even hire an independent firm to research that and tell you so."

Fuck. I got distracted...

Their statement on Hill was to absolve themselves if anything were to go public, like what happened to Rice. They absolutely could have and should have suspended him, and they don't need the permission of his wife to suspend him for snapping his 3 year olds arm. But the NFL doesn't give a shit about women or kids. Like the time they suspended Peterson a year for whipping his kid with a switch - because there were criminal charges - but pretended they didn't see the interview 3 years later when he admitted he still occasionally beats his kid with a fucking belt.

As to if Goodell will suspend Watson...well, I've already made my opinions known.
I’m certainly not suggesting that the NFL’s reasoning is consistent or morally sound. I’m suggesting that it’s different — perhaps morally, but certainly from a PR standpoint — when there are two dozen victims actively and publicly seeking justice than when the victims are immediate family members who, wisely or not, have chosen the path of reconciliation (or had it chosen for them, in the child’s case).

I don’t see how the NFL can let Watson play until there is closure on most/all of these claims. The Browns surely sought some assurances from the league office before trading for Watson and signing him to that contract, but I’d be surprised if Goodell is bound by anything. And I have to believe the league and the Browns both expected Watson to keep quiet and work diligently to bring these matter to legal closure — which the guaranteed money from the Browns should only help facilitate.

Long story short, it’s possible that what we’re witnessing is brinksmanship on the eve of a comprehensive deal that resolves these cases, but if not, I think Watson and his lawyer have misread the room and are overplaying their hand.
 

JM3

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Look at his numbers. He's had one okay season out of 4. Why on earth would anyone want that? Especially someone who still seems to think they are a "franchise quarterback".

His future is as a clipboard jockey.
Depends on how much draft capital they staple to him.
 

RedOctober3829

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Looks like Watson has settled all but 4 of his lawsuits.

"Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has reached a confidential settlement with all but four of the 24 women who sued him and accused him of sexual misconduct during massage sessions in 2020 and early 2021, the women’s attorney said Tuesday.

The settlements end the women’s litigation against him nearly 15 months after most were filed in 2021.

“Today I announce that all cases against Deshaun Watson, with the exception of four, have settled,” plaintiffs attorney Tony Buzbee said in a statement. “We are working through the paperwork related to those settlements. Once we have done so, those particular cases will be dismissed. The terms and amounts of the settlements are confidential. We won’t comment further on the settlements or those cases.”



View: https://twitter.com/Schrotenboer/status/1539274056888832002?s=20&t=IiMsNfOh-movzH7AYubY4w
 

findguapo

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The NFL has a pretty easy out if they want to look tough without actually being tough. They can suspend him something like a year and a half, backdated to when he played his last game. The headline would be that he is suspended a year and a half, but he would only miss 8 games.
 

djbayko

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The NFL has a pretty easy out if they want to look tough without actually being tough. They can suspend him something like a year and a half, backdated to when he played his last game. The headline would be that he is suspended a year and a half, but he would only miss 8 games.
I’ve been toying with this idea of “time served” in my head. One problem with that idea is that Watson was still being paid, which kind of defeats the purpose of a suspension. What happens there in this hypothetical scenario?

They’ll also look incredibly weak. MLB really set the standard here. Watson is public enemy #1. I have no idea why the NFL would be in a rush to get him on the field. But they somehow manage to bungle every disciplinary decision, so we’ll see.
 

sodenj5

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The NFL has a pretty easy out if they want to look tough without actually being tough. They can suspend him something like a year and a half, backdated to when he played his last game. The headline would be that he is suspended a year and a half, but he would only miss 8 games.
Yea Watson wasn’t suspended or on the Commissioner’s Exempt List. He started a holdout for a trade and then all hell broke loose with the lawsuits.

He was basically on an extended vacation for a year, got the trade he wanted, and got the largest sum of 100% guaranteed money in NFL history.

If they don’t come down on him hard, the NFL will look extremely weak. Manfred truly set the bar, and in my opinion, Watson’s behavior is far more egregious than Bauer’s.

This is Watson trying to avoid a truly severe penalty, because 4 lawsuits sounds a lot different than 24 lawsuits.
 

djbayko

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These women deserve to settle their cases however they want, but I do wish that at least one of them desires to see things through trial. Watson deserves lengthy, public humiliation and dissemination of information rather than getting out of trouble by writing a check for some small fraction of his record, guaranteed contract.
 

axx

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“Today I announce that all cases against Deshaun Watson, with the exception of four, have settled,” plaintiffs attorney Tony Buzbee said in a statement. “We are working through the paperwork related to those settlements. Once we have done so, those particular cases will be dismissed. The terms and amounts of the settlements are confidential. We won’t comment further on the settlements or those cases.”
Was thinking about this couple days ago...Both sides have a big incentive to settle if you figure that Buzbee probably gets nothing if Watson gets charged criminally since you figure Watson doesn't get any of the extension. I bet this settlement is dependent on Watson not getting charged. No idea how much $$$ we could be talking about but I bet the lawyers get most of it.

They’ll also look incredibly weak. MLB really set the standard here.
Again, Bauer's suspension has nothing to do with his case. It's about getting the Dodgers out of paying the remainder of his contract.
 

djbayko

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Was thinking about this couple days ago...Both sides have a big incentive to settle if you figure that Buzbee probably gets nothing if Watson gets charged criminally since you figure Watson doesn't get any of the extension. I bet this settlement is dependent on Watson not getting charged. No idea how much $$$ we could be talking about but I bet the lawyers get most of it.
How can a civil settlement depend on the outcome of criminal prosecution? One has nothing to do with the other. In fact, I imagine having such terms in a civil settlement would come dangerously close to witness tampering.
Again, Bauer's suspension has nothing to do with his case. It's about getting the Dodgers out of paying the remainder of his contract.
Whether that's true or not, it's now a benchmark for the public.
 

SoxinSeattle

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These women deserve to settle their cases however they want, but I do wish that at least one of them desires to see things through trial. Watson deserves lengthy, public humiliation and dissemination of information rather than getting out of trouble by writing a check for some small fraction of his record, guaranteed contract.
Yep. It's their choice to do what they want but god damn another rich dude pays his way out of a mess. Disgusting.
 

Mystic Merlin

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And odds are that the remainder (even after taxes) is life-changing money to many of the victims, without having to relive everything in an extremely-public trial.
And it’s now out there that Watson plausibly assaulted them, and he’s not gonna shake that perception completely for the rest of his life.
 

E5 Yaz

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And it’s now out there that Watson plausibly assaulted them, and he’s not gonna shake that perception completely for the rest of his life.
I don't know about that. Some uber-talented guys who have paid off victims -- and never get in trouble again -- have no problem being revered. Kobe and Ben come to mind.
 

sodenj5

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I don't know about that. Some uber-talented guys who have paid off victims -- and never get in trouble again -- have no problem being revered. Kobe and Ben come to mind.
Kobe is a good example, but Ben isn’t, IMO. Because it’s one of the first things people still mention when they bring up Roethlisberger.

Watson will have this attached to his name forever. He’s paying to make it go away so he can resume his lifestyle of no consequences and sexually assaulting masseuses.

I’m sure he’ll find almost ¼ of a billion ways to forget about people’s perception of him, but he went full Cosby. Publicly revered good guy to complete snake overnight.
 

jezza1918

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I don't know about that. Some uber-talented guys who have paid off victims -- and never get in trouble again -- have no problem being revered. Kobe and Ben come to mind.
While true, I think there are two potential differences that could keep this on Watson's shoulders while he remains in the NFL: 1. the amount of victims 2. the timing - 2021/22 is a world of difference between what happened in 2003/2010 WRT to social media and just how long stories like this might follow him. Or maybe (likely) I'm just hopeful that these kinds of actions prevent reverence going forward.
 

E5 Yaz

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That’s true, but 24 women?
I mean, I'll always think of that first when his name comes up. But the national perspective has a way of changing, and Watson's young enough that by the time he retires the view of him could change.

I mean, we live in a society where 40-50% of people can look at a heinous act of the highest order and think nothing wrong happened.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Kobe is a good example, but Ben isn’t, IMO. Because it’s one of the first things people still mention when they bring up Roethlisberger.

Watson will have this attached to his name forever. He’s paying to make it go away so he can resume his lifestyle of no consequences and sexually assaulting masseuses.

I’m sure he’ll find almost ¼ of a billion ways to forget about people’s perception of him, but he went full Cosby. Publicly revered good guy to complete snake overnight.
Sure. Right after his SB wins and his future induction into Canton.

People may bring it up, but it seems to matter very little.

While true, I think there are two potential differences that could keep this on Watson's shoulders while he remains in the NFL: 1. the amount of victims 2. the timing - 2021/22 is a world of difference between what happened in 2003/2010 WRT to social media and just how long stories like this might follow him. Or maybe (likely) I'm just hopeful that these kinds of actions prevent reverence going forward.
He'll be getting paid hundreds of millions and cheered everytime he throws a TD. The amount of women doesn't matter. The media will talk about it the same way they talk about Tyreek Hill or Jameis Winston. Briefly and quietly. Fans will call him a rapist when they see him on the TV, but it'll impact him and his life as much as any other insult a rival fan might shout at their television.

The biggest impact is that he most likely loses money from sponsors. Everything else? Basically the same.
 

jezza1918

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Sure. Right after his SB wins and his future induction into Canton.

People may bring it up, but it seems to matter very little.



He'll be getting paid hundreds of millions and cheered everytime he throws a TD. The amount of women doesn't matter. The media will talk about it the same way they talk about Tyreek Hill or Jameis Winston. Briefly and quietly. Fans will call him a rapist when they see him on the TV, but it'll impact him and his life as much as any other insult a rival fan might shout at their television.

The biggest impact is that he most likely loses money from sponsors. Everything else? Basically the same.
yeah I think your response to my comment makes a lot of sense. Worth noting I do know four Browns fans, all of whom have sworn off spending money on the team (though will watch) while Watson remains on the team. For now I'll naively cling to this anecdote.
I do wonder what his life outside of football is like compared to Ben or Kobe? My point about social media was that my gut tells me exponentially more people know about what Watson did than the other two. We know & followed those stories because we are sports fans, did large swaths of non sports fans follow those stories closely? At least compared to the Watson stuff? Should note that in no way/shape/form am I claiming to be "right" here. Just throwing some (possibly shitty) theories at a wall here.
 

E5 Yaz

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I do wonder what his life outside of football is like compared to Ben or Kobe? My point about social media was that my gut tells me exponentially more people know about what Watson did than the other two. We know & followed those stories because we are sports fans, did large swaths of non sports fans follow those stories closely?
When Kobe received his Oscar, the bulk of the audience gave him a standing ovation. When he passed the row where Jane Fonda was seated near the end, she said something to the effect of "i thought we stopped giving these out to rapists."

I think it comes down to what has always been the case: The rich and famous always will be perceived differently.
 

sodenj5

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When Kobe received his Oscar, the bulk of the audience gave him a standing ovation. When he passed the row where Jane Fonda was seated near the end, she said something to the effect of "i thought we stopped giving these out to rapists."

I think it comes down to what has always been the case: The rich and famous always will be perceived differently.
I think the contrast between Kobe and Deshaun is extremely stark.

Kobe had one incident, apologized publicly, and to my knowledge, walked the straight and narrow as a husband and father eventually.

Deshaun claims he never did anything wrong, apologized to the Cleveland Browns for being a distraction, and just cut about 20 7-figure checks to make his problem go away. He has shown not a single ounce of contrition.
 

djbayko

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I think the contrast between Kobe and Deshaun is extremely stark.

Kobe had one incident, apologized publicly, and to my knowledge, walked the straight and narrow as a husband and father eventually.

Deshaun claims he never did anything wrong, apologized to the Cleveland Browns for being a distraction, and just cut about 20 7-figure checks to make his problem go away. He has shown not a single ounce of contrition.
Didn't Kobe's team release the victim's name and trash her? I still haven't received MY huge diamond ring in exchange for his acceptance.

Also, I don't really want to get into comparing degrees of sexual assault, but what Kobe was accused of doing was pretty violent in nature. One time should be enough to be branded for life.
 

sodenj5

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Didn't Kobe's team release the victim's name and trash her? I still haven't received MY huge diamond ring in exchange for his acceptance.

Also, I don't really want to get into comparing degrees of sexual assault, but what Kobe was accused of doing was pretty violent in nature.
Oh, I don’t mean to defend Kobe or his actions, but I just wanted to point out that he at least showed some contrition and apologized.

While Watson’s accusations may be of a less violent nature, the sheer volume of women filing complaints and his complete lack of contrition make him look like a far more sinister dude.
 

djbayko

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Oh, I don’t mean to defend Kobe or his actions, but I just wanted to point out that he at least showed some contrition and apologized.

While Watson’s accusations may be of a less violent nature, the sheer volume of women filing complaints and his complete lack of contrition make him look like a far more sinister dude.
Is there really that much difference? Neither of them is ever going to apologize for rape/assault. They've both only apologized around the edges. Kobe didn't pay off his accuser because he didn't have to.

It comes down to Kobe being an all time great + lifetime PR campaign. We'll see what happens with Watson in this era, but it's going to take quite some time to get a clear view.
 

Preacher

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Oh, I don’t mean to defend Kobe or his actions, but I just wanted to point out that he at least showed some contrition and apologized.

While Watson’s accusations may be of a less violent nature, the sheer volume of women filing complaints and his complete lack of contrition make him look like a far more sinister dude.
Kobe's apology boiled down to, "I'm sorry you feel like I raped you." He didn't issue the apology until after the charges were dropped (which is completely justifiable - just pointing out the timeline) and he didn't issue the apology until he received an assurance it wouldn't be used against him should there be a future civil suit. The apology was the start of a PR campaign to turn around his image which really amounted to him changing his number, embracing the mamba/NBA badboy image, adopting a me vs. the world attitude. Basically, a complete heel turn and it worked. It's an interesting approach to take after being accused of sexual assault but I guess leaves a roadmap that Watson could follow. Embrace the hate until they love you for it.
 

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Kobe's apology boiled down to, "I'm sorry you feel like I raped you." He didn't issue the apology until after the charges were dropped (which is completely justifiable - just pointing out the timeline) and he didn't issue the apology until he received an assurance it wouldn't be used against him should there be a future civil suit. The apology was the start of a PR campaign to turn around his image which really amounted to him changing his number, embracing the mamba/NBA badboy image, adopting a me vs. the world attitude. Basically, a complete heel turn and it worked. It's an interesting approach to take after being accused of sexual assault but I guess leaves a roadmap that Watson could follow. Embrace the hate until they love you for it.
Might work in LA. Won't for the Browns.
 

E5 Yaz

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Did I miss a report that the Niners would want him?
LOL ... I don't have espn insider, so I don't have access to the story, but I thought it was funny

According to ESPN’s Jake Trotter, Cleveland could continue looking outside the organization for quarterback help. He suggested that a Baker Mayfield-for-Jimmy Garoppolo trade could be a viable option.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/21/browns-could-pursue-quarterback-trade-jimmy-garoppolo-deshaun-watson-suspension
 
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Oh, I don’t mean to defend Kobe or his actions, but I just wanted to point out that he at least showed some contrition and apologized.
He did initially apologize, though it's reasonable to assume that it was a term of the settlement. And over the years his story changed and "the incident in Colorado" became a trial he had to overcome, and essentially cast himself as a victim.
 

Marciano490

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Kobe was also a cultural icon, referenced in Biggie songs and Chapelle Show skits. I wouldn’t recognize Watson if he was sitting next to me. At best, he can be Ben, a disgusting person whose past isn’t much discussed but never really forgotten.

If a year from now, announcers are talking about all Watson overcame, as they sometimes do in similar situations, that’d probably drive me away from the NFL, unless the Pats or my fantasy teams are doing well.
 

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5,155
Harker Heights, TX
He did initially apologize, though it's reasonable to assume that it was a term of the settlement. And over the years his story changed and "the incident in Colorado" became a trial he had to overcome, and essentially cast himself as a victim.
Happened after the criminal charges were dropped and before the settlement (after he was assured the apologize wouldn’t be used against him in the settlement).

-BREAK-

As an aside, and not trying to add any credulity to either situation, but getting a sexual assault victim to file a criminal report is very difficult in general. It’s something they come to on their own or with a lot of prodding from an outcry friend or family member. Most criminal jurisdictions have little interest in pursuing delayed reports because it makes the cases harder to prove (no SANE report, no DNA, lack of injuries observed ! - even with extensive injuries observed in the SANE of Kobe’s victim) Also, the prevailing thought is that real victims report immediately. Why would they wait? A good victim goes to the cops immediately and subjects herself to an invasive SANE. Do you know what a SANE entails? She surrenders her clothes and poses naked for photos, hops in the stirrups, and agrees to have her genitalia photographed in great detail by a complete stranger. Swabbing intimate areas for the possibility of semen or other DNA like saliva. Swabbing the mons pubis area, labia, then speculum insertion and then vaginal swabs, cervical swabs. And she gets to leave in hospital clothing. I’m giving you the highlights of a 4-6+ hour exam because it’s a lot more than that. An exam Kobe’s accuser went through. If anyone ever says a SANE is like an annual gynecological exam, they have no idea what it’s like. Reporting a rape “the right way” is incredibly difficult. Imagine your wife or daughter going through that and then questions being raised about her relationship to the accused or her motive to fabricate (she was probably drunk and stepped out on you and lied about it to cover it up).

Meanwhile, if my wallet were stolen, I’d call the cops, report the description of my wallet to include contents and be automatically deemed a legit reporter and not questioned on why I was where I was or how much I had to drink. They would seek out they person I claimed stole my wallet. They would not ask me to surrender my clothing or swab by body. They wouldn’t even care if I was having dinner with my mistress

Unfortunately, rape myths permeate our criminal justice system and culture at large. Failure to report immediately means it’s not true. Not fully complying with law enforcement means it’s not true. Trying to get money when you’re told it’s likely there will be no conviction means it’s not true. So many similar parallels to domestic violence cases here. The old power and control wheel at play again. I’m sorry for the tangent. There’s a lot of people out there telling the truth but you’re second guessing because they didn’t act the way you expected them to act.
 

Cotillion

lurker
Jun 11, 2019
3,362
Happened after the criminal charges were dropped and before the settlement (after he was assured the apologize wouldn’t be used against him in the settlement).

-BREAK-

As an aside, and not trying to add any credulity to either situation, but getting a sexual assault victim to file a criminal report is very difficult in general. It’s something they come to on their own or with a lot of prodding from an outcry friend or family member. Most criminal jurisdictions have little interest in pursuing delayed reports because it makes the cases harder to prove (no SANE report, no DNA, lack of injuries observed ! - even with extensive injuries observed in the SANE of Kobe’s victim) Also, the prevailing thought is that real victims report immediately. Why would they wait? A good victim goes to the cops immediately and subjects herself to an invasive SANE. Do you know what a SANE entails? She surrenders her clothes and poses naked for photos, hops in the stirrups, and agrees to have her genitalia photographed in great detail by a complete stranger. Swabbing intimate areas for the possibility of semen or other DNA like saliva. Swabbing the mons pubis area, labia, then speculum insertion and then vaginal swabs, cervical swabs. And she gets to leave in hospital clothing. I’m giving you the highlights of a 4-6+ hour exam because it’s a lot more than that. An exam Kobe’s accuser went through. If anyone ever says a SANE is like an annual gynecological exam, they have no idea what it’s like. Reporting a rape “the right way” is incredibly difficult. Imagine your wife or daughter going through that and then questions being raised about her relationship to the accused or her motive to fabricate (she was probably drunk and stepped out on you and lied about it to cover it up).

Meanwhile, if my wallet were stolen, I’d call the cops, report the description of my wallet to include contents and be automatically deemed a legit reporter and not questioned on why I was where I was or how much I had to drink. They would seek out they person I claimed stole my wallet. They would not ask me to surrender my clothing or swab by body. They wouldn’t even care if I was having dinner with my mistress

Unfortunately, rape myths permeate our criminal justice system and culture at large. Failure to report immediately means it’s not true. Not fully complying with law enforcement means it’s not true. Trying to get money when you’re told it’s likely there will be no conviction means it’s not true. So many similar parallels to domestic violence cases here. The old power and control wheel at play again. I’m sorry for the tangent. There’s a lot of people out there telling the truth but you’re second guessing because they didn’t act the way you expected them to act.
This just needs to be seen again.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
12,092
If anything close to "indefinite suspension, 1 year minimum" ends up happening, how did these teams get it so wrong? It wasn't just the Browns...Carolina, Atlanta, New Orleans too.

These teams wouldn't have been desperate to give up a ton of money and 1st round picks for him with a 1 year suspension looming would they? He's good but it's not like he alone is going to take you to a Super Bowl. Plus the terrible publicity.

Just strange all the way around.
 

Yaz4Ever

stumps for Trump
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Happened after the criminal charges were dropped and before the settlement (after he was assured the apologize wouldn’t be used against him in the settlement).

-BREAK-

As an aside, and not trying to add any credulity to either situation, but getting a sexual assault victim to file a criminal report is very difficult in general. It’s something they come to on their own or with a lot of prodding from an outcry friend or family member. Most criminal jurisdictions have little interest in pursuing delayed reports because it makes the cases harder to prove (no SANE report, no DNA, lack of injuries observed ! - even with extensive injuries observed in the SANE of Kobe’s victim) Also, the prevailing thought is that real victims report immediately. Why would they wait? A good victim goes to the cops immediately and subjects herself to an invasive SANE. Do you know what a SANE entails? She surrenders her clothes and poses naked for photos, hops in the stirrups, and agrees to have her genitalia photographed in great detail by a complete stranger. Swabbing intimate areas for the possibility of semen or other DNA like saliva. Swabbing the mons pubis area, labia, then speculum insertion and then vaginal swabs, cervical swabs. And she gets to leave in hospital clothing. I’m giving you the highlights of a 4-6+ hour exam because it’s a lot more than that. An exam Kobe’s accuser went through. If anyone ever says a SANE is like an annual gynecological exam, they have no idea what it’s like. Reporting a rape “the right way” is incredibly difficult. Imagine your wife or daughter going through that and then questions being raised about her relationship to the accused or her motive to fabricate (she was probably drunk and stepped out on you and lied about it to cover it up).

Meanwhile, if my wallet were stolen, I’d call the cops, report the description of my wallet to include contents and be automatically deemed a legit reporter and not questioned on why I was where I was or how much I had to drink. They would seek out they person I claimed stole my wallet. They would not ask me to surrender my clothing or swab by body. They wouldn’t even care if I was having dinner with my mistress

Unfortunately, rape myths permeate our criminal justice system and culture at large. Failure to report immediately means it’s not true. Not fully complying with law enforcement means it’s not true. Trying to get money when you’re told it’s likely there will be no conviction means it’s not true. So many similar parallels to domestic violence cases here. The old power and control wheel at play again. I’m sorry for the tangent. There’s a lot of people out there telling the truth but you’re second guessing because they didn’t act the way you expected them to act.
Perhaps the best non-baseball post I’ve seen on SoSH ever, and I’m one of those who in the early days of the Cosby downfall questioned the legitimacy of claims from a few women who “waited so long”. He had so much more power and prestige than just about anyone ever accused of rape/sexual assault on top of the demeaning and humiliating process of undergoing a SANE test. The process for these women to “prove” their claims is about equal to the trauma of the incident itself in many respects.