Watson to Cleveland

ifmanis5

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View: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1560301991246667776

Breaking News: Deshaun Watson, the Cleveland Browns quarterback accused by more than two dozen women of sexual misconduct, agreed to an 11-game suspension. The NFL had sought a yearlong ban, but reached a deal after an arbitrator recommended six games.

I read that his contract is guaranteed if he plays 6 games. 11 games seems a specific number to tailor to that. Coincidence?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm not shocked the NFL set this up so they can look like the good guys here.
They settled. I guess nobody cares or will even notice. But that's a terrible look, to me. Five more games? Take your chances with the appeal and then say "we tried."

I have said this with varying degrees of seriousness over the last few years but I seriously don't know if I can continue to support the NFL. I'm so sickened. I guess it's just part of a general sickening with the rest of the world too so it gets diluted, but man.

This world and this country just fucking hate women. It's insane. When does it stop?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Wow. I guessed 8. They went craaaazzzzyyy and gave him 11 games. Thoughts and prayers to the Watson family.
 

mauf

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I thought the logical deal was a one-year suspension. Watson gets the certainty of knowing he’ll be allowed to resume his career; the NFL gets to keep him off the field for two full years.

On reflection, though, this 11-game ban probably works better for the NFL. Watson will return to a team that will be (presumably) out of the race, and he’s sure to be booed mercilessly in his first game back. And by the time training camp opens for the 2023 season, it will be an old story.
 

Shelterdog

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Wow. I guessed 8. They went craaaazzzzyyy and gave him 11 games. Thoughts and prayers to the Watson family.
I had thought it was going to be 4-6 but the Bauer suspension made them have to go somewhat higher.

I will say it's an unusual case in that, because of the sheer number of victims, people think that Watson's -- obviously terrible -- conduct is actually far worse than what's been alleged. The vast majority of the victims have alleged conduct that may not even be properly chargeable as a criminal offense in texas, most of the rest have alleged conduct that's likely a misdemeanor. There are a small number of serious sexual assault allegations (quickly re-reviewing it I think two, but I may have missed one) and those alone, in a just world, would lead to his imprisonment if true. But the number of NFL players and coaches with sexual assault allegations agains them is larger than just this guy. It was a long time ago but Matt Patricia was indicted for sexual assault, for example.
 

Cellar-Door

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So.... DeShaun seems to have violated the terms of the settlement within minutes of it being announced.

If I were the NFL, just to scare him a bit I'd send a letter to his reps and the NFLPA saying that we were looking into whether he had violated the terms of the settlement and whether that would require re-opening the matter (and possibly broadening the investigation)
 

RedOctober3829

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I also know folks who spent time there. That is a no fuck around place.

What's the story with Roth?
Was it part of his punishment in 2010?

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was suspended Wednesday for six games for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy, the league announced.

Commissioner Roger Goodell handed down the punishment a week after prosecutors decided not to charge Roethlisberger in a case involving a 20-year-old college student who accused him of sexually assaulting her in a Georgia nightclub in March.

Roethlisberger also was ordered to undergo a comprehensive behavioral evaluation. Goodell will look at Roethlisberger's progress before the season and might consider reducing the suspension to four games.

However, a failure to comply with the NFL's ruling might lead to a longer suspension.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121614
 

ManicCompression

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I have said this with varying degrees of seriousness over the last few years but I seriously don't know if I can continue to support the NFL. I'm so sickened. I guess it's just part of a general sickening with the rest of the world too so it gets diluted, but man.
What is the right amount of punishment in your eyes? I'm not pushing back against your overall point, just trying to understand what would be the punishment that would make you not feel guilty about supporting the NFL, or why it would superior for them to extend out a battle with a players union and possibly end up with a pyrrhic victory that results in him missing less games or paying a lower fine.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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What is the right amount of punishment in your eyes? I'm not pushing back against your overall point, just trying to understand what would be the punishment that would make you not feel guilty about supporting the NFL, or why it would superior for them to extend out a battle with a players union and possibly end up with a pyrrhic victory that results in him missing less games or paying a lower fine.
I think the NFL should take a stand. We don't stand for this. So we're going to push the appeal. Not settle.

My problem is not 6 versus 11 versus 17. It's with settling. Actually, it's about the fact that the NFL didn't give a shit about anything but appearances to start with. The whole thing has been orchestrated and Machiavellian, as documented pretty well in this thread.

In terms of number of games, there was never going to be a satisfactory outcome here. This guy should fuck right off and never be allowed to play. But, you know, that's not the world we live in. So the only way for a victory that I would be happy with would be for there to be something symbolic. For the NFL to say, you know what, we've been shitty on this in the past. But we're going to stand for what is right, now. Better late than never. The arbitrator was right. We have in the past wrongly, by our actions, equated being generally aware of deflating footballs (or whatever) with kicking the shit out of women on video. But no mas. We're pushing this one to the end. If we lose, so be it. But he should not play this year and he should be suspended indefinitely until he has convinced us that he is sorry and won't do it again, and we're going to fight until we win or go down in flames trying.

Put another way, if the NFL had said or done the right thing here from the start instead of the thing it wanted to be perceived as right, and then settling to try to claim a why-can't-we-just-move-on win, I wouldn't care if the suspension stood at 6 games. It's not about the number of games.
 

djbayko

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Just boys being boys. They probably should have forgone all press conferences on the subject and referred everyone to press release(s).

View: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1560309913791827968

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
In the middle of questions about Deshaun Watson's behavior, Jimmy Haslam says: "It's important to remember Deshaun Watson is 26-years old, and he's a hell of an NFL quarterback."
{VIDEO OF HASLAM QUOTE}
 
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snowmanny

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Huh. Interesting that McLean is possibly the hospital used in his case.
McLean and MGH have a lot of psychiatrists and behavioral health specialists who have their own niche areas of expertise. It’s been awhile since I worked at McLean but when I was there they did have a couple of folks who specialized in what we call paraphilias. I doubt you’d need to be admitted into the hospital itself for the evaluation.
 

JM3

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I don't think that's enough games for them to take on James G's salary, so I think the Niners are out of options in terms of a trade.

That backloaded deal is going to work out perfectly for him and the Browns. Smartest thing they've done in a while - so gross.
How does it work out for the Browns to pay him more?
 

snowmanny

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I don't think that's enough games for them to take on James G's salary, so I think the Niners are out of options in terms of a trade.
Don't they have lots of cap space? $25Million for 11-12 games of QB play doesn't seem terrible. If it is the difference between 7-5 and 5-7 it would be worth it, of course.
 

Ralphwiggum

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No shit he’s 26 and a hell of an NFL QB, Jimmy, that’s why you traded for him and gave him a quarter of a billion guaranteed dollars. He’s also, you know, a serial sexual assaulting scumbag who has shown zero indication that he thinks he’s done anything wrong.

The Browns can’t lose enough games as long as Haslam and Watson are associated with the franchise.
 

snowmanny

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The problem is that there is a rising pile of AFC teams I want to see lose every week.
 

Preacher

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What’s the treatment program like for a serial sexual abuser?
Step 1 is understanding what he did was wrong. He doesn’t seem to be there yet. I’ve watched a lot of treatment sessions of serial sexual abusers (both adult and child victims). These people had already served their sentences and had been in treatment for some time but watching someone calmly explain how they groomed child victims or isolated/groomed adult victims is pretty disturbing.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Step 1 is understanding what he did was wrong. He doesn’t seem to be there yet. I’ve watched a lot of treatment sessions of serial sexual abusers (both adult and child victims). These people had already served their sentences and had been in treatment for some time but watching someone calmly explain how they groomed child victims or isolated/groomed adult victims is pretty disturbing.
Have you ever seen anyone actually come back from something like this, like actually realize that what they did was wrong, show true remorse, and try to do better? I’m asking honestly, I don’t know.
 

Preacher

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Have you ever seen anyone actually come back from something like this, like actually realize that what they did was wrong, show true remorse, and try to do better? I’m asking honestly, I don’t know.
So the doctor I’ve worked with, who was the therapist in all these sessions, told me that with intense therapy and with everyone basically watching them (sex offender registration) many can be successful at suppressing their urges. I don’t deal with them after the prosecution and I have no idea what happens to them when they get out. But the feelings don’t go away, they just have to learn how to control them and live with them. Of course, there are degrees to these things so maybe some find it easier to suppress than others.
 

Reverend

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Huh. Interesting that McLean is possibly the hospital used in his case.
McLean and MGH have a lot of psychiatrists and behavioral health specialists who have their own niche areas of expertise. It’s been awhile since I worked at McLean but when I was there they did have a couple of folks who specialized in what we call paraphilias. I doubt you’d need to be admitted into the hospital itself for the evaluation.
Most likely, it’s totally obnoxious. MacLean’s is elite—world wide elite—and I’m thinking they got them to look at Roethlisberger to draft off their rep. But as @Preacher notes, treatment doesn’t even qualify as pro forma if the person doesn’t buy in. So any time spent on that jackass—and I do hope they didn’t waste a bed in him—is time wasted that could be spent on someone in need of help. Hopefully (most likely?) they made the NFL pay out the nose for the privilege of name dropping them and put the money to good use.

But man, something about the NFL being able to just ring up MacLean’s in support of their ongoing PR campaign with respect to the criminals they employ… just… ick.
 

snowmanny

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Most likely, it’s totally obnoxious. MacLean’s is elite—world wide elite—and I’m thinking they got them to look at Roethlisberger to draft off their rep. But as @Preacher notes, treatment doesn’t even qualify as pro forma if the person doesn’t buy in. So any time spent on that jackass—and I do hope they didn’t waste a bed in him—is time wasted that could be spent on someone in need of help. Hopefully (most likely?) they made the NFL pay out the nose for the privilege of name dropping them and put the money to good use.

But man, something about the NFL being able to just ring up MacLean’s in support of their ongoing PR campaign with respect to the criminals they employ… just… ick.
Well, McLean has special beds on a small discrete unit for particularly elite situations, so in the hypothetical they aren't taking a bed away from Joe from Dracut. But, again, it is doubtful he would have been an inpatient.

I am confident the money was put to use.
 

Van Everyman

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I think one of my least favorite aspects of this story is the number of dudes who insist some number of these women were rub and tug prostitutes posing as professional masseuses. It’s been said outright a number of times but also has been alluded to over and over. It’s infuriating.
 

snowmanny

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I think one of my least favorite aspects of this story is the number of dudes who insist some number of these women were rub and tug prostitutes posing as professional masseuses. It’s been said outright a number of times but also has been alluded to over and over. It’s infuriating.
Someone in this thread pointed out that Watson could have simply hired women more amenable to a sexual interaction, but he specifically didn't, presumably because the act of coercion was part of the thrill.
 

Marciano490

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I think the NFL should take a stand. We don't stand for this. So we're going to push the appeal. Not settle.

My problem is not 6 versus 11 versus 17. It's with settling. Actually, it's about the fact that the NFL didn't give a shit about anything but appearances to start with. The whole thing has been orchestrated and Machiavellian, as documented pretty well in this thread.

In terms of number of games, there was never going to be a satisfactory outcome here. This guy should fuck right off and never be allowed to play. But, you know, that's not the world we live in. So the only way for a victory that I would be happy with would be for there to be something symbolic. For the NFL to say, you know what, we've been shitty on this in the past. But we're going to stand for what is right, now. Better late than never. The arbitrator was right. We have in the past wrongly, by our actions, equated being generally aware of deflating footballs (or whatever) with kicking the shit out of women on video. But no mas. We're pushing this one to the end. If we lose, so be it. But he should not play this year and he should be suspended indefinitely until he has convinced us that he is sorry and won't do it again, and we're going to fight until we win or go down in flames trying.

Put another way, if the NFL had said or done the right thing here from the start instead of the thing it wanted to be perceived as right, and then settling to try to claim a why-can't-we-just-move-on win, I wouldn't care if the suspension stood at 6 games. It's not about the number of games.
I think this is the right answer. We probably shouldn’t be a society that permits someone who’s done what Watson’s done and failed to show remorse or acknowledge guilt the way he has to make tens of millions of dollars in a high profile career. But, we are that society and any suspension short of permanent ban was always going to be an uncomfortable but passing reminder of that.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Have you ever seen anyone actually come back from something like this, like actually realize that what they did was wrong, show true remorse, and try to do better? I’m asking honestly, I don’t know.
Quite a different set of dreadful acts, but Michael Vick seemed to recognize how wrong dog fighting was. A quick skim of Wikipedia doesn’t suggest he got his life back together after football, although those two things may not be related.
 
I'm now waiting for Haslam to invoke the Otter Defense and blame the whole collegiate system for fostering a sense of entitlement in Watson - I mean, he was given everything (and presumably everyone) he wanted at Clemson, so it's not his fault that he turned into a sexual predator, right? You can punish Watson all you want, but I'm not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!

View: https://youtu.be/ROxvT8KKdFw?t=64
 

Jungleland

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I would love to be optimistic about that, but the largely unsaid unstoppable force at play here is how much the league just wants the story to go away. I have a hard time seeing them reopen the discussion when it means they'd be stepping back into the media's crosshairs.

Fwiw, I think they’ve miscalculated pretty badly there. They're going to deal with loud and deserved criticism the entirety of this season now, whereas a year or indefinite suspension would have (in my best guess) kicked some negative attention to next August, but minimized how long it's the number 1 NFL headline in the news. (While there would always be people calling for a lifetime ban, and from a moral standpoint I don't disagree, I think there was likely a non-infinite duration that would have felt less disgusting than 11 games.) I find that aspect of the 11 games extra shocking - Goodell got a month to read the tea leaves and they seemingly indicated the public wants longer, and yet he and the league went light anyways.
 

cornwalls@6

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I would love to be optimistic about that, but the largely unsaid unstoppable force at play here is how much the league just wants the story to go away. I have a hard time seeing them reopen the discussion when it means they'd be stepping back into the media's crosshairs.

Fwiw, I think they’ve miscalculated pretty badly there. They're going to deal with loud and deserved criticism the entirety of this season now, whereas a year or indefinite suspension would have (in my best guess) kicked some negative attention to next August, but minimized how long it's the number 1 NFL headline in the news. (While there would always be people calling for a lifetime ban, and from a moral standpoint I don't disagree, I think there was likely a non-infinite duration that would have felt less disgusting than 11 games.) I find that aspect of the 11 games extra shocking - Goodell got a month to read the tea leaves and they seemingly indicated the public wants longer, and yet he and the league went light anyways.
I have to disagree a little bit on your second paragraph. Not your moral position, but the impact on the league. The games will start for real in a couple of weeks, and I think this will fade away. When Watson returns, I’m sure there will be a flare up of public and media criticism, but by the playoffs it’s gone. And I think by next year, it’s largely over. I doubt this affects their ratings or bottom line one bit. Short of a lifetime ban, no decision was going to come without criticism. I think they know and accept that bad publicity isn’t the same as damage to their business, which at this point is about as bullet proof as a business can be.
 

Saints Rest

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October is the month where the league has everyone wear pink, right? The 6 game suspension would have ended in October. The league needed to get Watson's return as far from then as possible to limit the incredibly ugly juxtaposition that would have done to their PR. And as many have said, the way they have teated Watson has been all about PR.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think that's enough games for them to take on James G's salary, so I think the Niners are out of options in terms of a trade.

That backloaded deal is going to work out perfectly for him and the Browns. Smartest thing they've done in a while - so gross.
I disagree. You can’t take a quality team and play 70% of the season without a starting quality QB then rely on a guy who hasn’t played in 2 years for the remaining 30% and expect to make the playoffs. Maybe the Browns will try to hold off until Jimmy is waived but they really need to get this done especially since Jimmy’s history would suggest he’s not certain to be available when Watson returns.
 

Harry Hooper

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It's because he was paid, and not put on the Commisioner's List. The Texans carried him on the 53 but essentially made him inactive each week.
It's amazing how often in radio and print commentary in the last week or so I have come across references to Watson being on the Commissioner's list in 2021.

Does the NFL give a shit about promoting a Week 11 game between the Browns and Texans? Isn't the more likely explanation is that it splits the difference between the original sentence and a full season?
Apologies to the poster upthread ( I can't find it now.) who noted that Watson has to play in 6 games this season to have his contract become fully guaranteed. If that's accurate, then Watson likely would have agreed to pay a TON more than $5 million in a fine to be able to play 6 games this season (17-11=6).
 
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Awesome Fossum

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Apologies to the poster upthread ( I can't find it now.) who noted that Watson has to play in 6 games this season to have his contract become fully guaranteed. If that's accurate, then Watson likely would have agreed to pay a TON more than $5 million in a fine to be able to play 6 games this season (17-11=6).
OK, I buy that as an impetus way more than anyone wanting to set the table for Browns-Texans.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Apologies to the poster upthread ( I can't find it now.) who noted that Watson has to play in 6 games this season to have his contract become fully guaranteed. If that's accurate, then Watson likely would have agreed to pay a TON more than $5 million in a fine to be able to play 6 games this season (17-11=6).
Florio says that isn't accurate. "The 11-game suspension doesn’t toll his contract. (Some are suggesting that a 12-game suspension would have delayed his contract by a year. Without getting into the specific details, that’s incorrect.)"

I've seen other pieces that state that Watson would have had to been suspended for more than a year for the contract to toll. That makes much more sense. E.g., if Watson played in even one game this year, it doesn't make any sense why that year wouldn't count.