Washington Football Team Name Change

Old Fart Tree

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I'm not Irish, but I am from Boston and that's been my experience. I'd be fine with changing even the Celtics if I saw any indication it offended Irish-Americans. But I don't.
My father and I have long been offended by the simian Punch Magazine caricature of the drunken brawling Irishman advanced by Notre Dame. It would be like having the mascot be the Money Counting Jews of Brandeis. Is it the most important thing in the world to get upset about? No. But it is offensive as hell.
 

YTF

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Synder could easily score some very much needed goodwill as well as show the world he has integrity. So of course, he won't. I'm guessing FedEx and those investment firms will not put up with Synder's bullshit any longer.

Synder is the Donald Sterling of Jerry Richardsons.
Late to the thread, but IMO that ship has sailed long ago. Snyder has been asked to change the team's name probably since the day he's owned the franchise. Not only has he been resistant, but I can't recall him at anytime even offering to consider a change and IIRC he's flat out said that he would never change the team's name. The only reason this is happening is because for the first time there has been strong financial pressure placed on him. He'll be extended no goodwill because he has no integrity.
 

jose melendez

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My father and I have long been offended by the simian Punch Magazine caricature of the drunken brawling Irishman advanced by Notre Dame. It would be like having the mascot be the Money Counting Jews of Brandeis. Is it the most important thing in the world to get upset about? No. But it is offensive as hell.
Im with you then. Also, I hate nd
 

Old Fart Tree

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I think the Celtics logo is fine. It's the ND apelike brow and drunken brawler stance (he's literally a FIGHTING Irishman) that I think sucks. (Comparison below) As a result, my father would never, ever have let me attend Notre Dame even if I had wanted to. A lot of Irish Americans - probably most of them, frankly - don't find it offensive, and that's their prerogative; I don't need to be a fragile flower about it. But since you asked, I think it sucks and it's evocative of the NINA days over here and the Punch Magazine dehumanization of the Irish across the pond. As I said, there are far more important things to be upset about these days. Like, for example, the Washington redskins.

323123231332314

I'll stop the thread hijack now.
 

bankshot1

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Will the Chicago Blackhawks be next?
It seems they should be likely goners in the Chief Wahoo-caricature class of offensive.

While I can see the argument for it being changed, I do not think it racist or demeaning, but WTF do I know, and its not my ox.

I've read the name was meant originally to honor both a local Illinois tribe and a US Army division (86th Infantry) which the team founder fought for in WW1.

From a purely aethestic perspective, I really like their red-away jersey.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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They dropped the yellow helmet, but they never changed the colors back. I guess the burgundy/maroon/red has ebbed and flowed a bit, but the gold has been yellow ever since.
Sorry, I meant like it’s officially their scheme, burgundy, white and gold. Anyway I lived down there for about fifteen years, I’d never heard ketchup and mustard, which is why I asked. All good.

 

Montana Fan

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No. I have, however, spoken to Lakota Sioux and Odjibwe and they think the Redskins logo and name is trash. And they are also a “resilient people.” I wouldn’t for a moment presume to think that they speak for all American Indians, though, because that would be really stupid.
Exactly. Which is why I’m ridiculing the snowflakes who are bellyaching on behalf
of a populace that, after 20 years of polling, shows a strong lack of desire for the name to be changed.

And by the way, if the name changes it matters not one whit to me. The team could be renamed the Washington Snowflakes for all I care.
 

snowmanny

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Well I’m bellyaching on behalf of the belief that in 2020 it’s generally offensive to have a team nickname that is based on people’s skin color. YMObviouslyVs.
 

cleanturtle

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Feb 2, 2007
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Exactly. Which is why I’m ridiculing the snowflakes who are bellyaching on behalf
of a populace that, after 20 years of polling, shows a strong lack of desire for the name to be changed.

And by the way, if the name changes it matters not one whit to me. The team could be renamed the Washington Snowflakes for all I care.
What you are saying is factual incorrect. Please read the study I posted and the piece written by Fawn Sharp. There has been long-term and widespread opposition from within the American Indian community.

What you appear to be doing is virtue signaling, ridiculing those who care about the issue in an attempt to demonstrate that your not caring is more virtuous. If you truly do not care, why are you posting? If you do care, then please take the time to read the evidence contradicting your claims.
 
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mauf

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My father and I have long been offended by the simian Punch Magazine caricature of the drunken brawling Irishman advanced by Notre Dame. It would be like having the mascot be the Money Counting Jews of Brandeis. Is it the most important thing in the world to get upset about? No. But it is offensive as hell.
Being upset about the Fighting Irish is more like getting upset about a rap group calling themselves N.W.A. than it is like the names we’re discussing.
 

Old Fart Tree

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Being upset about the Fighting Irish is more like getting upset about a rap group calling themselves N.W.A. than it is like the names we’re discussing.
...I guess, if you feel like the mascot was meant to reclaim the Punch stereotype. I guess I could see that, although Im not sure I agree. I mean, I only responded to someone saying “no Irish people are offended by the ND mascot to my knowledge” by pointing out “well, some of us are, but NBD.” It is definitely different than Dan Snyder claiming the Redskins is not an offensive name, sure.
 

bankshot1

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"The three minority owners of the Washington Redskins are attempting to sell their stakes in the National Football League franchise, people familiar with the deliberations told the Washington Post. According to one of those people, the owners — Robert Rothman, Dwight Schar and Frederick Smith — hired an investment banking firm to conduct the search for potential buyers, in large part because they are ‘‘not happy being a partner'' of majority owner Daniel Snyder."

If the 3 partners change their minds and rescind their decision to sell would they...

NM
 

uncannymanny

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What’s something else Irish people don’t have in common with various POC? Oops gave it away!
 

Lose Remerswaal

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"The three minority owners of the Washington Redskins are attempting to sell their stakes in the National Football League franchise, people familiar with the deliberations told the Washington Post. According to one of those people, the owners — Robert Rothman, Dwight Schar and Frederick Smith — hired an investment banking firm to conduct the search for potential buyers, in large part because they are ‘‘not happy being a partner'' of majority owner Daniel Snyder."
The timing on this is weird. To announce this only after Snyder first said he'd consider a name change makes it look like they are against changing the name.
 

Awesome Fossum

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I don't think it was announced, just reported. Frederick Smith is Fred Smith, the FedEx founder and CEO.

Thursday’s statement from FedEx, the company founded by Washington minority partner Fred Smith, opposing the name of the team stunned many around the league. However, the public assault on a name that Washington owner Daniel Snyder had said would never change wasn’t the result of an epiphany for Smith. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Smith had been trying to get Snyder to change the name for “years.”
 

Hoya81

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The most offensive name in the world of sports is Ole Miss Rebels. And for some reason no one cares about that one.
Ole Miss has taken a more incremental approach in an attempt not to piss off the reactionary elements of the fanbase. They hid the Confederate mascot starting in ‘03(although still featuring him on merch for a few more years) switching to a black bear in ‘10 and now to shark since ‘17. There was a tongue in cheek campaign to make Admiral Ackbar the mascot, which made its way into an ESPN bit:
View: https://youtu.be/8Xq3mVgqlQg
 

Cotillion

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View: https://twitter.com/sportslogosnet/status/1280917585538748418




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This post has now been updated with a report that the new Washington Redskins name could be selected in as little as two weeks, as well as some details on what sort of name they're considering as a replacement.
so they’ve just been sitting on this till forced to do it? Makes sense as good corporate planning probably identified this as an issue they needed contingency for and Snyder might have been smart enough to allow them to plan for it.
 

Hoya81

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FedEx playing hardball, will remove their branding from the stadium if the team does not change the name.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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FedEx playing hardball, will remove their branding from the stadium if the team does not change the name.
Bold move for them now. But it was OK when they first put their name on the place?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Would you rather them stick with their original poor decision?
No, but what has changed in the interim? The name was just as shitty when they were happy to pay the rights. Now they are just covering their asses
Is it even a bold move now? The name change has been almost certainly a fate accompli for the better part of a week. Aren't we just waiting for what the new one will be?
I was being sarcastic. I originally had "Bold move, Cotton" but changed it. Shouldn't have changed it. And nothing with Snyder is a fate accompli. If it were, why did the minority owners all decide to sell NOW, after he announced he was going to look into changing the name?
So they aren't allowed to try to rectify a mistake? Just execute them and be done with it?
They are welcome to do so, but it doesn't change the fact that they thought it was a good investment then. I'd like to see them do something to help the Native Americans to show a big more good faith than just trying to erase their mistake
 

loshjott

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Is it even a bold move now? The name change has been almost certainly a fate accompli for the better part of a week. Aren't we just waiting for what the new one will be?
FedEx apparently put the screws on a couple weeks ago which is what partially led to the endgame we're at now. As for the military connections to whatever new name is chosen, word is both Snyder and especially Ron Rivera want that due to the DC location and Rivera being a military brat himself.

The dysfunction in this organization is astonishing, even as they are finally trying to do something about the name. There is basically no non-football decision-making outside of Dan Snyder and a couple toadies who technically work for his outside companies, not the team. Ron Rivera came in as the Head Coach, hasn't coached a down for the team, and he's being asked to make important non-football decisions already.
 

cornwalls@6

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Mia culpa, I think I may have had the timeline wrong. I knew they were getting corporate pressure from various places, but miss-took the FedEx threat to have happened yesterday, after the news earlier this week that a change was imminent. Was thinking it was after the fact, PR grandstanding by them. Agree with all regarding what a clown show Snyder and the organization is, and that nobody should have any confidence that they won’t still fuck this up.
 

loshjott

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Mia culpa, I think I may have had the timeline wrong. I knew they were getting corporate pressure from various places, but miss-took the FedEx threat to have happened yesterday, after the news earlier this week that a change was imminent. Was thinking it was after the fact, PR grandstanding by them. Agree with all regarding what a clown show Snyder and the organization is, and that nobody should have any confidence that they won’t still fuck this up.
You're not wrong, the detail about FedEx writing to Snyder about dropping their name from the stadium was reported today. But the letter was sent a while ago.
 

Winger 03

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Former season ticket holder here (keep the jokes to yourself please).

Like many things that one grows up with, you do not give it a second thought. I was 5 and watched football with my father; his team was the Redskins and so was mine. I never gave it a thought that the term meant anything other than the name of the football team. Football = Redskins to me and to many Washingtonians. Similarly, the name of a street in Northern Virginia (Lee Highway named for Robert E. Lee) was always just a street in NoVa. Heard it on the traffic reports every day - a crash on Lee Hwy, what else is new. I do not think that any malicious thought was given when the Redskins or Lee Hwy were named.

Even if Redskins was a slur at one time, maybe it is not now - can't the meaning of words evolve. When was the last time you heard someone (other than a football player for Washington) called a Redskin, and done so in a negative manner? As an example I offer a word whose meaning has changed. That word is niggardly. Originally meaning stingy or miserly, its origin is from the Middle Ages. Over time, a derivation of it was used in a derogatory (to say the least) sense since the mid 1500's and really picked up steam in the 1700's. In modern times, one cannot use the word niggardly without it being confused with it's derivation. In fact there are a few incidences where niggardly was used correctly in public but was misunderstood to mean something else and the user faced serious repercussions. Its use by a Washington DC aide to Mayor Williams in the late 1990's ended up getting the aide fired (though was offered his job back) for using that word in reference to official DC business. Interestingly enough, Julian Bond (then chairman of the NAACP) was taken aback by the backlash of the use of that word and reportedly said "You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding".

Up-thread, someone mentioned "how many need to be offended to change the name". That is a great question. How many is the right amount, and how does one determine that amount? I'd venture to guess you can get 10% of any group to object to something. Further, you might be able to drill into most any team name to find something objectionable - where is the line drawn? American history is littered with great stories of Cowboys - but who was involved to a large degree with the destruction of the Native Americans? Rangers is a nice name for a team, yet there are many stories of Texas Rangers lynching Latinos, some as recent as the early 1900's. Should the Rangers look for a new name? The Redskins are tops on most everyone's list for team names to change. So it looks like it will eventually get changed - then what is next: Indians / Chiefs / Warriors / Braves - get rid of all Native American names and imagery. OK, fine. Then what is next after that - where is the line? Cowboys, Rangers, Canucks, Fighting Irish - anyone else?

So what is my stance on the name change? To be honest, I am indifferent. Change it, don't change it, whatever happens will happen. If they are changing - go to some sort of an animal - anythign else will just kick the can of "change the name" a little further down the road.
 

8slim

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The constant hand-wringing from some about "What's next? Where do we draw the line?!" is so ridiculous. We draw lines all the time in society. And when, over time, we realize that we need to move said lines, we do so.

"Redskins" is gross. It just is. St. John's dumped "Redmen" 26 years ago, and that name wasn't even originally intended to mean Native Americans (it was because the team wore red, the same reason Syracuse adopted the nickname "Orangemen"). But the school associated the name with a Native American mascot decades prior, and the whole thing was just icky.

The name can be changed, and it doesn't mean that next week we're going to have to rename the Packers because some random guy who worked in a meat packing plan once committed murder. I don't see many people trying to change the nickname of Golden State, because "Warriors" can apply to many peoples, and they don't have some pudgy, middle-aged dope, running around their arena doing the Tomahawk Chop.
 

Super Nomario

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The constant hand-wringing from some about "What's next? Where do we draw the line?!" is so ridiculous. We draw lines all the time in society. And when, over time, we realize that we need to move said lines, we do so.
Yep. Slippery slope arguments are pure intellectual laziness.

The name can be changed, and it doesn't mean that next week we're going to have to rename the Packers because some random guy who worked in a meat packing plan once committed murder. I don't see many people trying to change the nickname of Golden State, because "Warriors" can apply to many peoples, and they don't have some pudgy, middle-aged dope, running around their arena doing the Tomahawk Chop.
Whoa whoa whoa, Dahmer worked in a chocolate factory, not meat packing.
 

BaseballJones

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Yep. Slippery slope arguments are pure intellectual laziness.
If used properly, slippery slope arguments can get us to the heart of the principle at stake, so they're not always "pure intellectual laziness". Sometimes they're a great way to really help someone focus their thinking.