I watched all the angles of replay during the game, IMO Soto has every right to the base there and was on there by the time contact occurred. But yeah, honestly I don't care either, it's over.
Unusual plays
- Thread starter AB in DC
- Start date
Close call sports just uploaded the video on the NYY play and how it is different from what happened in Chicago
View: https://youtu.be/tAQrHlvGKCI?si=QACh-unYgD10zng4
View: https://youtu.be/tAQrHlvGKCI?si=QACh-unYgD10zng4
Is that really true? If the fielder doesn’t catch the ball, and, by extension, just leaves it there or it hits a pebble or a base and bounces away, the runners are allowed to try to advance, after tagging up, so you won’t want to leave the ball alone. And most players aren’t as smart as Russo letting the grounder hit him and aren’t going to let the ball lane. There is also zero benefit to them in doing so. In fact, the smart player makes sure he bumps the runner to get the DP.
Edit: just watched the above video, it Is the first time I saw it other than live, and it definitely looks like Soto interfered with the play. Had it bounced off the SS’s glove, the runner on third might have scored. Had Soto returned a half second earlier he is on the base and isn’t called out. But he wasn’t back when the contact occurred
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The ball isn't "dead" on an IFR, it's just that the batter is out. If the fielder boots the ball the runners still have the ability to advance.
What's dumb about it? It's in place to prevent cheap double plays and has been effective at doing that for 130 years.
The infield fly rule itself is fine. IMO once the ump calls it, the play should just be dead, the runners shouldn't be allowed to advance or be caught off the base, the fielder shouldn't have to catch the ball, the batter should be out and the runners at the same bases. As it is, it is kind of unfair to the runners, who have to react not just to the play but to what an ump calls while the ball is in the air.
That's not possible. The IFF is only in effect if the ball is fair. The call actually is "infield fly if fair." If it's foul, the rule doesn't apply. So when do you declare a dead ball? A foul ball caught is a live play with 0 or 1 outs.
Otherwise, I see your point but disagree. The IFR is designed to avoid the intentional drop double play but nothing more. In all other respects, it treats the play exactly as it would be but for the one specific thing it's trying to protect.
Imagine: Amazing nearly unhittable closer comes into the game. Bases loaded, one out, walk off situation. Ricky Henderson style speed on third. Third base coach says we're tagging on any pop up. It's our best chance. If it's farther than 100 feet from home plate, you're going. If the catcher has to turn around to catch it in foul territory, you're going. A foul ball near the dugouts, you're going. Infielders at DP depth. Pop up about 20 feet behind first base. If you call it a dead ball, the runner on third cannot advance on a caught ball. Why should that option be taken away?
I agree with your overall point, but I don't think a popup 20 feet behind first would be called an infield fly.
For the base runners it's exactly the same for any shallow hit ball in the air that's expected to be caught – get back and stay on the bag so you're prepared to tag if the defense screws up. That's the only reaction required. There's no excuse to still be wandering around the area when the infielder is already camped under it preparing to make a catch.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder-not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. Theinfield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire's judgment must govern, and thedecision should be made immediately.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1bt6qcp/infield_fly_rule_called_on_a_popup_that_fell_in/
Those are very good examples of what I find to be bad calls by the umpire! But they're also of SS's ranging into the OF, not 1B doing so.
This call definitely is more correct than the interference call the previous week in the White Sox versus Orioles game the previous week.
Cleveland just got screwed on this. Justin Turner took off for second base on a pitch that bounced in front of the plate. David Fry's throw down to second had him by a mile, but Turner's helmet fell off during a head-first slide and was caught under his chest and chin. The tag made contact with and stayed on the helmet. He was initially called out because the throw and tag so obviously beat him to the base, but on review the helmet was pinned between the tag and his chest and blocked direct contact until after he had reached the base with his hand. The rule is that the helmet is no longer part of the body and he was ruled safe on review. Maybe it's a case of avoiding unintended consequences, but the rule should favor the defense in that case… he made a poor decision to go and was rewarded for not being able to keep his equipment on.
Getting the top of his bald head exposed on TV is punishment enough for Turner.
The Phillies turned a 1-3-5 triple play thanks to bad baserunning by Tigers. The first of its kind since 1929. That one also involved the Tigers.
https://www.mlb.com/news/aaron-nola-phillies-turn-triple-play-against-tigers
https://www.mlb.com/news/aaron-nola-phillies-turn-triple-play-against-tigers
Second run didn't count
My buddy is at this game and texted me wondering why the second run didn't count. There was no explanation given at the stadium. My guess is because the other player touched/helped him? Or possibly the ump said the second runner passed the first, but the first runner already had scored. I was curious what the smart folks here could tell me?
My buddy is at this game and texted me wondering why the second run didn't count. There was no explanation given at the stadium. My guess is because the other player touched/helped him? Or possibly the ump said the second runner passed the first, but the first runner already had scored. I was curious what the smart folks here could tell me?
Yeah the second runner missed home and then the first runner grabbed him while the play was still live, so it was called interference and the second runner was out.
I figured it was something like that, but I wasn't sure the exact rule. Thanks!
The video on mlb.com cuts off early, so here's the replay video:
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSAthletics/status/1806065529817649219
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSAthletics/status/1806065529817649219
Not a home run. It’s a sacrifice with two (or three?) errors, no? I can’t even count the errors!
Three errors I can see. Error on the throw to first (batter reaches). Error on the RF when he failed to pick up the ball (batter advances to 3B). Error on the throw home (batter scores). I've always heard this sort of play referred to as a Little League home run. Apparently they've just dropped the "Little League" part.
I enjoyed the part where the pitcher just watched it all happen after he messed up the initial play
If he covers home, that guy doesn't score
I like when the pros mess up, gives me something to show the kids I'm coaching of what not to do and also show them that it's a tough game to learn
If he covers home, that guy doesn't score
I like when the pros mess up, gives me something to show the kids I'm coaching of what not to do and also show them that it's a tough game to learn
Gimenez and Brennan just teamed up for a 4-9 flyout.
View: https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1812230506085498971?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1812230506085498971%7Ctwgr%5Ebb4d91da3c470252dae57556448a3d29b7b48781%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fguardians%2F2024%2F07%2Fwhat-a-play-andres-gimenez-will-brennan-combine-on-highlight-reel-catch.html
View: https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1812230506085498971?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1812230506085498971%7Ctwgr%5Ebb4d91da3c470252dae57556448a3d29b7b48781%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fguardians%2F2024%2F07%2Fwhat-a-play-andres-gimenez-will-brennan-combine-on-highlight-reel-catch.html
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Last night the Reds had nine hits. Nine players each had one hit.
That can’t happen very often, no? Trying to figure out how to search for those, but stathead isn’t very helpful.
That can’t happen very often, no? Trying to figure out how to search for those, but stathead isn’t very helpful.
We have better than the Bat Signal for things like this. Call for @Brand Name ! Jess, we need your magic!
This list is a start, games with most batters getting at least one hit. But then you’d have to scroll to the ones with nine such batters and see how many team hits there were. And there’s a lot!
https://stathead.com/baseball/player-batting-game-finder.cgi?request=1&match=team_player_count_game&timeframe=seasons&ccomp[1]=gt&cval[1]=1&cstat[1]=b_h
Don't you also need to take into account whether any of those players did not start the game, like someone who gets a pinch hit late in the game for a starting player who was 0 for 3?
Good point.
You'd take this list (many games!) of exactly 9 hits and 9 batters used:
https://stathead.com/tiny/PJIJM
And compare it to this list of teams with most hitters of exactly one hit:
https://stathead.com/tiny/NOHPc
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE202209300.shtml?__hstc=205977932.e52e3290bc4fbd0358eadcf559645a19.1685451793353.1721937785575.1722352390794.240&__hssc=205977932.9.1722352390794&__hsfp=1399665375
This appears to be the most recent, Cleveland beat the Royals 6-3 on 9/30/2022.
And this is the only time in Sox history, 7/14/1940, beat the Browns 7-3 in only 7 innings. This was the second game of a double-header and the Sox did bat in the bottom of the 7th, so I'm guessing it was called on account of darkness or weather.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS194007142.shtml?__hstc=205977932.e52e3290bc4fbd0358eadcf559645a19.1685451793353.1721937785575.1722352390794.240&__hssc=205977932.11.1722352390794&__hsfp=1399665375
Hah, thanks...
93rd time since 1901 every single starter gets exactly 1 hit. First time for the Reds since 2016, and 10th time for Cinci to do so since 1901.
That February cruise isn't going to pay for itself, heh.
Fair ball clears the fence without touching the ground, is it a homerun?
No, it’s not. Seemed the Padres tied the game yesterday when Kim hit a ball off the top of the wall, then off of the leaping fielder’s glove who knocked it over the fence. But no, the dumb rule makes it a double. Pads failed to score and lost 7-6.
No, it’s not. Seemed the Padres tied the game yesterday when Kim hit a ball off the top of the wall, then off of the leaping fielder’s glove who knocked it over the fence. But no, the dumb rule makes it a double. Pads failed to score and lost 7-6.
Okay...videos are even better
https://www.mlb.com/video/gavin-williams-in-play-out-s-to-willi-castro?partnerId=web_video-playback-page_video-share
I understand it's unusual to see a 7-5 forceout, but unless I'm missing something, that's a very likely play to make an out on
I didn't see Kwan do anything special to deke the runner
However, I'd ask resident stat finder specialist @Brand Name to work their magic and see how often we actually see 7-5 forceouts
Thanks much! They do seem to be quite rare but come in clusters, as I guess is the nature to some extent of likely similarly batted balls, you'd see clustering in that data and its output. August 5, 2015 had one with Pirates/Cubs.
Then the Giants July 8, 2015. Last one before that? Came exactly a year before, with LA's Andre Either.
Also found one by Joe Inglett in July 2006. That one has an interesting player backstory as Ronnie Belliard was the player out there--his final moment with Cleveland before being traded to St. Louis.
Thanks Jess
And maybe it seems more common to me, coaching travel ball, especially at the younger ages, I guess we'd see more plays like that happen somewhat regularly
A home run is when a ball “in flight“ clears the fence. A ball is in flight until it hits anything other than a defensive player (which is why the ball off Canseco’s head was a home run). But hitting the top of the wall counts the same as a fence, and is no longer in flight therefore not a homerun.