Unusual plays

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,714
I have no dog in this pony show, so I won't drag it any further,,, but I feel you have a very...interesting take om what actually happened.
I watched all the angles of replay during the game, IMO Soto has every right to the base there and was on there by the time contact occurred. But yeah, honestly I don't care either, it's over.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Also they called the infield fly rule on that ball, the ball should be dead as soon as the ump calls that. The infielder didn't need to catch the ball once that was ruled.
Is that really true? If the fielder doesn’t catch the ball, and, by extension, just leaves it there or it hits a pebble or a base and bounces away, the runners are allowed to try to advance, after tagging up, so you won’t want to leave the ball alone. And most players aren’t as smart as Russo letting the grounder hit him and aren’t going to let the ball lane. There is also zero benefit to them in doing so. In fact, the smart player makes sure he bumps the runner to get the DP.

Edit: just watched the above video, it Is the first time I saw it other than live, and it definitely looks like Soto interfered with the play. Had it bounced off the SS’s glove, the runner on third might have scored. Had Soto returned a half second earlier he is on the base and isn’t called out. But he wasn’t back when the contact occurred
 
Last edited:

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,839
Alamogordo
Also they called the infield fly rule on that ball, the ball should be dead as soon as the ump calls that. The infielder didn't need to catch the ball once that was ruled.

I'm not complaining to be clear, NY won the game (barely), I just dislike rules that don't make sense.
The ball isn't "dead" on an IFR, it's just that the batter is out. If the fielder boots the ball the runners still have the ability to advance.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,714
What's dumb about it? It's in place to prevent cheap double plays and has been effective at doing that for 130 years.
The infield fly rule itself is fine. IMO once the ump calls it, the play should just be dead, the runners shouldn't be allowed to advance or be caught off the base, the fielder shouldn't have to catch the ball, the batter should be out and the runners at the same bases. As it is, it is kind of unfair to the runners, who have to react not just to the play but to what an ump calls while the ball is in the air.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
The infield fly rule itself is fine. IMO once the ump calls it, the play should just be dead, the runners shouldn't be allowed to advance or be caught off the base, the fielder shouldn't have to catch the ball, the batter should be out and the runners at the same bases. As it is, it is kind of unfair to the runners, who have to react not just to the play but to what an ump calls while the ball is in the air.
That's not possible. The IFF is only in effect if the ball is fair. The call actually is "infield fly if fair." If it's foul, the rule doesn't apply. So when do you declare a dead ball? A foul ball caught is a live play with 0 or 1 outs.

Otherwise, I see your point but disagree. The IFR is designed to avoid the intentional drop double play but nothing more. In all other respects, it treats the play exactly as it would be but for the one specific thing it's trying to protect.

Imagine: Amazing nearly unhittable closer comes into the game. Bases loaded, one out, walk off situation. Ricky Henderson style speed on third. Third base coach says we're tagging on any pop up. It's our best chance. If it's farther than 100 feet from home plate, you're going. If the catcher has to turn around to catch it in foul territory, you're going. A foul ball near the dugouts, you're going. Infielders at DP depth. Pop up about 20 feet behind first base. If you call it a dead ball, the runner on third cannot advance on a caught ball. Why should that option be taken away?
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,682
Pittsburgh, PA
That's not possible. The IFF is only in effect if the ball is fair. The call actually is "infield fly if fair." If it's foul, the rule doesn't apply. So when do you declare a dead ball? A foul ball caught is a live play with 0 or 1 outs.

Otherwise, I see your point but disagree. The IFR is designed to avoid the intentional drop double play but nothing more. In all other respects, it treats the play exactly as it would be but for the one specific thing it's trying to protect.

Imagine: Amazing nearly unhittable closer comes into the game. Bases loaded, one out, walk off situation. Ricky Henderson style speed on third. Third base coach says we're tagging on any pop up. It's our best chance. If it's farther than 100 feet from home plate, you're going. If the catcher has to turn around to catch it in foul territory, you're going. A foul ball near the dugouts, you're going. Infielders at DP depth. Pop up about 20 feet behind first base. If you call it a dead ball, the runner on third cannot advance on a caught ball. Why should that option be taken away?
I agree with your overall point, but I don't think a popup 20 feet behind first would be called an infield fly.
 

Sad Sam Jones

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
2,696
For the base runners it's exactly the same for any shallow hit ball in the air that's expected to be caught – get back and stay on the bag so you're prepared to tag if the defense screws up. That's the only reaction required. There's no excuse to still be wandering around the area when the infielder is already camped under it preparing to make a catch.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
I agree with your overall point, but I don't think a popup 20 feet behind first would be called an infield fly.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder-not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. Theinfield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire's judgment must govern, and thedecision should be made immediately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1bt6qcp/infield_fly_rule_called_on_a_popup_that_fell_in/
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,682
Pittsburgh, PA
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder-not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. Theinfield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire's judgment must govern, and thedecision should be made immediately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1bt6qcp/infield_fly_rule_called_on_a_popup_that_fell_in/
I am sure Braves fans would agree with you--

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-6ujbLknUc
Those are very good examples of what I find to be bad calls by the umpire! But they're also of SS's ranging into the OF, not 1B doing so.
 

richgedman'sghost

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2006
1,925
ct
That's a bad angle, Soto had come to a stop on the base and the fielder flopped backwards over his leg. It was probably the right call by the book but MLB needs to tweak the rule to include common sense judgments by the ump.
This call definitely is more correct than the interference call the previous week in the White Sox versus Orioles game the previous week.
 

Sad Sam Jones

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
2,696
Manny Ramirez's helmet flew off his head all the time. I'm imagining a scenario where a fielder tagged the helmet as it was falling off Manny's head.
Cleveland just got screwed on this. Justin Turner took off for second base on a pitch that bounced in front of the plate. David Fry's throw down to second had him by a mile, but Turner's helmet fell off during a head-first slide and was caught under his chest and chin. The tag made contact with and stayed on the helmet. He was initially called out because the throw and tag so obviously beat him to the base, but on review the helmet was pinned between the tag and his chest and blocked direct contact until after he had reached the base with his hand. The rule is that the helmet is no longer part of the body and he was ruled safe on review. Maybe it's a case of avoiding unintended consequences, but the rule should favor the defense in that case… he made a poor decision to go and was rewarded for not being able to keep his equipment on.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
8,245
Boston, MA
Cleveland just got screwed on this. Justin Turner took off for second base on a pitch that bounced in front of the plate. David Fry's throw down to second had him by a mile, but Turner's helmet fell off during a head-first slide and was caught under his chest and chin. The tag made contact with and stayed on the helmet. He was initially called out because the throw and tag so obviously beat him to the base, but on review the helmet was pinned between the tag and his chest and blocked direct contact until after he had reached the base with his hand. The rule is that the helmet is no longer part of the body and he was ruled safe on review. Maybe it's a case of avoiding unintended consequences, but the rule should favor the defense in that case… he made a poor decision to go and was rewarded for not being able to keep his equipment on.
Getting the top of his bald head exposed on TV is punishment enough for Turner.
 

normstalls

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 15, 2004
4,556
Second run didn't count

My buddy is at this game and texted me wondering why the second run didn't count. There was no explanation given at the stadium. My guess is because the other player touched/helped him? Or possibly the ump said the second runner passed the first, but the first runner already had scored. I was curious what the smart folks here could tell me?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,714
Second run didn't count

My buddy is at this game and texted me wondering why the second run didn't count. There was no explanation given at the stadium. My guess is because the other player touched/helped him? Or possibly the ump said the second runner passed the first, but the first runner already had scored. I was curious what the smart folks here could tell me?
Yeah the second runner missed home and then the first runner grabbed him while the play was still live, so it was called interference and the second runner was out.
 

normstalls

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 15, 2004
4,556
Yeah the second runner missed home and then the first runner grabbed him while the play was still live, so it was called interference and the second runner was out.
I figured it was something like that, but I wasn't sure the exact rule. Thanks!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,608
Maine
Not a home run. It’s a sacrifice with two (or three?) errors, no? I can’t even count the errors!
Three errors I can see. Error on the throw to first (batter reaches). Error on the RF when he failed to pick up the ball (batter advances to 3B). Error on the throw home (batter scores). I've always heard this sort of play referred to as a Little League home run. Apparently they've just dropped the "Little League" part.
 

santadevil

wears depends
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
6,595
Saskatchestan
I enjoyed the part where the pitcher just watched it all happen after he messed up the initial play

If he covers home, that guy doesn't score

I like when the pros mess up, gives me something to show the kids I'm coaching of what not to do and also show them that it's a tough game to learn