According to the article, that disagreement had little to do with medical opinion and everything to do with who pays for the surgery and what it would do to Schilling's contract.
Trevor Story had surgery on his right UCL and is expected to miss time
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Would it hurt to do a few courtesy tosses in December? Check in on the ol' elbow before January at least, Trevah. (/s)
My low expectations have been lowered. Oh well.
This almost feels a bit like the Lugo signing where the GM was in love with the idea of the player and when they came available they convinced themselves it was a good play despite the red flags.
4-6 months is May to July. A one-year deal with a SS means the Sox would have 1-3 months of Arroyo (etc.) filling in for Story at 2b and then otherwise have the infield set. If people think Story's surgery changes the SS picture, I dunno, I never saw a clear indication that he'd move there. We always needed a full-time player at one of the two spots, with SS making way more sense. So Story's surgery just means we need to add temporary, full-time coverage at 2b.
Would have preferred for a trade or a deal to be done prior to this announcement at least. Maybe other GM's and/or agents know all this info... but it doesn't leave the Sox too much leverage.
Why? Is there something in the numbers suggesting that getting outside of Petco and the NL West will be a boon to his hitting? Can this team really afford to trade assets (and they'd have to be real assets not EEI assets) to get a guy that's had one season of slightly above average offense? In a year where they're likely to be cellar dwellars again?
Meister had the room next to mine at 700 my frosh year at BU.
His uncle was Grandpa Al Lewis.
For whatever leverage it might be worth (I don't think it's much), I think the game might have been given up if the Sox suddenly ramped up their interest or urgency to get such a trade/signing done before word got out.
Because his defense is so extraordinary and the offensive of approach is very solid suggesting more potential from his KBO days.
It's not like optimal for this season, but I think signing Andrus to play SS with an Arroyo/Valdez platoon at 2B is fine & mortgaging the future to paper over a Story injury seems suboptimal.
Enmanuel had a .996 OPS against righties last year in the minors & Arroyo was .777 against lefties last year in the Majors (MLB average last year was .706). I think that could be pretty workable (I'd use different #s, but Fangraphs seems to be down).
ETA: Fangraphs up, Arroyo had a 114 wRC+ against lefties last year, 97 against righties.
Enmanuel had a .996 OPS against righties last year in the minors & Arroyo was .777 against lefties last year in the Majors (MLB average last year was .706). I think that could be pretty workable (I'd use different #s, but Fangraphs seems to be down).
ETA: Fangraphs up, Arroyo had a 114 wRC+ against lefties last year, 97 against righties.
I’m prone to be a defender of the medical staff and management. But the truth is the issue causing a change in velocity was known. I’ve posted that throwing from 2B isn’t going to make the problem go away or protect from further injury. This is just poor asset management on the Sox and Story.
Far too easy to lay this at the feet of the Sox. If Story wanted to ride it out with rest and rehab it was his choice.
Far too easy to lay this at the feet of the Sox. If Story wanted to ride it out with rest and rehab it was his choice.
Hilarious. Sale waited forever to get his TJ too. I know it’s a last resort - but this is such a Sox thing to happen lately. At least he gets 20+ million to rest on.
Come on down Jeter Dow— oh
Come on down Jeter Dow— oh
I have no inside info on Story’s specific situation other than knowing that his elbow has been something of an issue in the past, but it is possible that when it became clear that he might be in line to play more SS this year after the Bogaerts loss, he started doing more throwing in line with SS throws and his elbow wasn’t up to it. It’s also possible it was just gonna happen sometime and this was the offseason when it didn’t respond to the usual rest. The good news is that this type of procedure has a shorter rehab than “formal” TJ surgery and as a position player his timeline is a lot shorter than a pitcher.
Shitty, shitty timing tho.
Shitty, shitty timing tho.
PM’d you $10 - but could this potentially get his velocity up to where he can be a SS? Like could this injury explain the loss in velocity causing him to alter mechanics?
Absolutely- like a pitcher who has TJ and comes back “throwing stronger than ever” - they don’t actually get faster than they were, it’s just that prior to having the surgery they were slowly, imperceptibly losing velocity and having the surgery resets them to where they were before they started having issues
Chaim Bloom on the Trevor Story timeline: “While ramping up throwing, Trevor experienced pain in his elbow. This was just before Christmas. … It was not something we contemplated at the end of the season.”
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1612918504553848864
Mac Cerullo
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1612918504553848864
Mac Cerullo
View: https://twitter.com/MacCerullo/status/1612918805956534281
Well, this is a bummer. I felt strongly that we needed another high-impact bat *with* Story playing. Now we need another. This lineup has the potential to be pretty anemic unless Cassas has a RotY type season and Turner mashes like its 2019.
He should be back by the ASB and this should clear up any throwing issues to the point where he can play SS if he wants to/the Sox want him to
Reports are 4-6 months. Bloom apparently is operating like he won't be back this season but won't rule out that he'll be back. Seems a prudent approach.
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1612918734158438416
Yeah, missing almost 75% of the first two years of the contract is not a great start...
The worst thing about this is that Story is a unicorn; a middle infielder with a middle-of-the-order bat. We're not going to be able to replace that with what's on the scrap-heap. Somebody in another thread was talking about how we don't have a lot in the way of power, as none of our projected outfield are power bats.
Fun! We're the 1965 Dodgers. (The HR leaders were Jim Lefebvre and Sweet Lou Johnson with 12 each.) Of course, we don't have Koufax, Drysdale and Claude Osteen as our 1-2 and 3.
Fun! We're the 1965 Dodgers. (The HR leaders were Jim Lefebvre and Sweet Lou Johnson with 12 each.) Of course, we don't have Koufax, Drysdale and Claude Osteen as our 1-2 and 3.
Fortunately we aren’t replacing a lot of him since we only had him 90 games last year.
We might be looking at 1992 territory when Tom Brunansky lead the team with 15 round trippers.
This news about Story really sucks.
Well, this sucks but I guess it could be worse. We needed a shortstop regardless and now we just need Arroyo/someone else to manage second until he’s able to return. Christian is perfectly fine as a placeholder while he rehabs. Fingers crossed that everything progresses well and he can return on the earlier end of the timetable.
Maybe it ends up being a blessing in disguise, the elbow has been a concern for a while and now it’s getting rectified. I tend to err on the side of significant optimism, though.
Maybe it ends up being a blessing in disguise, the elbow has been a concern for a while and now it’s getting rectified. I tend to err on the side of significant optimism, though.
Not specific to Story, but in general, if a player and the team both agree he needs off season surgery, is it up to the player or the team to decide when that surgery occurs?
We as fans want it to happen immediately after the season ends so they will be ready as early as possible for the next season. The player may want some time to rest, go on vacation, spend time with the family, etc, before being incapacitated by surgery and then going through the grind of rehab. If the guy wants a vacation early in the offseason first, and then do the surgery and rehab later "on company time" can the team do anything about that?
We as fans want it to happen immediately after the season ends so they will be ready as early as possible for the next season. The player may want some time to rest, go on vacation, spend time with the family, etc, before being incapacitated by surgery and then going through the grind of rehab. If the guy wants a vacation early in the offseason first, and then do the surgery and rehab later "on company time" can the team do anything about that?
A devoted band of Bloom loyalists have repeatedly described the team's depth as a strength, and written of their expectations that oft-injured players will somehow be immune from injury in 2023. This injury underscores how thin we are, and offers vivid evidence of the dangers of assuming healthy prognoses in the absence of evidence. I would worry that, a year from now, this injury will be trotted out by Bloom's most devoted fans as reason to grant him a mulligan for 2023; I do, however, have enough faith in this ownership group that another last-place finish will lead to Bloom's dismissal.
History suggests it's entirely up to the player. A team cannot force a player to do anything he doesn't want to do.
Couldn’t this be good long term? A fully healthy Story with his old arm is a steal for us for the rest of his contract and it’s not like this was a viable season anyways.
I'm sure Devers will still hit 25-30 homers, assuming he plays a full season.
After that, who knows?
Not until spring training starts though, you can't put guys on the 60 day IL until the first day of spring training. It's a pretty dumb rule.
The Sox could really use a break.
I wish we’d done what the Twins did at the beginning of the offseason, which was to trade a 35+ FV minor league relief arm waaaayyyy down on their prospect list to the Reds for Kyle Farmer, an adequate defensive shortstop with decent pop. Or even nabbed Urshela instead of the Angels in that salary dump deal.
I wish we’d done what the Twins did at the beginning of the offseason, which was to trade a 35+ FV minor league relief arm waaaayyyy down on their prospect list to the Reds for Kyle Farmer, an adequate defensive shortstop with decent pop. Or even nabbed Urshela instead of the Angels in that salary dump deal.
Red Sox returning home run leaders from '22 with Story out...
Devers 27
Dalbec 12
Verdugo 11
Arroyo 6
Hernandez 6
Refsnyder 6
Casas 5
Duran 3
Reese 3
Wong 1
Of course, the missing from that list aren't that impressive either...
X 16
Story 16
JD 15
Franchy 8
Vaz 8
Pham 6
JBJ 3
Almonte 1
Downs 1
Plawecki 1
Devers 27
Dalbec 12
Verdugo 11
Arroyo 6
Hernandez 6
Refsnyder 6
Casas 5
Duran 3
Reese 3
Wong 1
Of course, the missing from that list aren't that impressive either...
X 16
Story 16
JD 15
Franchy 8
Vaz 8
Pham 6
JBJ 3
Almonte 1
Downs 1
Plawecki 1
This stinks, but at a certain level if you weren't bullish on the 2023 team already (raises hand), it's not THAT catastrophic.
As plenty of people on here have pointed out, the window for the team is more likely 2024(25)-2027 and this shouldn't have any real bearing on that. As someone whom didn't think this team had done really anything to dislodge New York, Toronto, Tampa Bay and Baltimore for this season, Story missing time doesn't change the equation all that much. I guess it makes it less likely we beat out Baltimore to be 4th in the division, but beyond that, while MAYBE the 2023 Red Sox looked better than the 2022 Red Sox, they didn't look better than the 2022 (or 2023) Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays or Orioles, with or without a full season from Story.
Get the elbow fixed, and hope that means he's able to play short stop the way he did in Colorado because that gives more flexibility but to the core of the Red Sox and the 2025-27 window, this really doesn't have much bearing.
As plenty of people on here have pointed out, the window for the team is more likely 2024(25)-2027 and this shouldn't have any real bearing on that. As someone whom didn't think this team had done really anything to dislodge New York, Toronto, Tampa Bay and Baltimore for this season, Story missing time doesn't change the equation all that much. I guess it makes it less likely we beat out Baltimore to be 4th in the division, but beyond that, while MAYBE the 2023 Red Sox looked better than the 2022 Red Sox, they didn't look better than the 2022 (or 2023) Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays or Orioles, with or without a full season from Story.
Get the elbow fixed, and hope that means he's able to play short stop the way he did in Colorado because that gives more flexibility but to the core of the Red Sox and the 2025-27 window, this really doesn't have much bearing.
Yup. That's most definitely true. That 1992 roster was bad though and I doubt that the 23 roster will match it for its ineptitude. But this is shaping up to be a not-so-great year.
At this point, they should just punt and trade anything not nailed down at the deadline.
I am at total loss as to why you though it was a good idea to tear into posters here at SoSH not once but twice in a single post. What do the opinions of "Bloom loyalists" have to do with understanding Story's situation? I don't see how that contributes anything valuable to the thread or what your point is.
Next, whom are you targeting with the "assuming healthy prognoses" statement? What evidence did this mysterious group lack ("absense of evidence") exactly? What should "they" have done?
As was noted a number of times earlier in this thread, the Sox front office had medical evidence, but we do not know what it indicated exactly. However, also discussed was how "rest before surgery" is a commonly held position by many physicians. Are you saying the Sox front office did not know this?
Please keep up with the thread.
I would like Andrus for a limited time at short and Duvall for a year in the outfield. Duvall could give the outfield a little pop that seems lacking. He may be done but it’s worth a shot imo.
Seriously dude, no idea what you're talking about. Also don't really think they'll fire Bloom over injuries. That's a fundamentally stupid way of doing business. Is there another GM they could bring in whose presence in the building would result in fewer injuries? Story was signed at a reduced rate because of the injury risk. In the midst of all the other changes they are making, as part of a long-term organizational plan, they took some risk on a guy who, once he heals, will probably be a decent bargain offensively and defensively. All the freaking out is some talk radio shit. You don't fire someone unless you have someone who will do a better job. Bloom's job is to build a long-term contender. I get that a bunch of fans have no patience for anything and want to scream at someone because of whatever happened in the last 24 hours, but the success of Bloom won't be measurable for a while.
So the Red Sox bet $140 million on Story's elbow holding up and it didn't, and it ended up giving out because instead of paying Bogaerts, they decided that it was smarter to have Story be the backup plan despite the fact that his elbow was so compromised that he needed surgery after all of a month of working out as a shortstop. Perfect.
Last edited: