TMQ Thread

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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But does he drive a Dodge Stratus? Are people afraid of him??

On a serious tip, TMQ haters will surely enjoy this complete and utter destruction of his inaccurate analysis of Oregon's offense. But he gets a pass, because he's like a totally successful author and stuff.
Actually, he gets a pass because the guy who wrote the column doesn't understand what "a variation on" and "incorporates elements of" means. When a guy is tearing apart Easterbrook for his analysis of the Oregon offense and writes repeatedly "I haven't watched a lot of Oregon football" well....it stands for itself.

But yeah, totaly gave him the gas face!!!!!! You know who else should get the gas face from Braves and Birds (both really passionate fan bases by the way, great site)? P W Botha!

Good job you!
 

Rough Carrigan

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I really like Easterbrook. His odd little astrophysics digressions are interesting. And he makes a lot of great points about bullshit like college football coaches having to have multiple state troopers around them as some sort of vanity detail.

And I hadn't really thought about it in such clear terms before but he makes great points about what chickenshit babies NFL coaches usually are and how terrified of criticism they apparently are.

To compare him to Posnanski is unfair to Easterbrook and, frankly, stupid. It's like complaining that some piece of classical music isn't as jumpy and energetic as some piece of pop music that you like. It's not supposed to be. They're not the same thing. And I wonder if the form of his column upsets people. He writes about whatever he feels like discussing. Easterbrook's doing something you simply couldn't do until the advent of the internet. Imagine what the Glob would have done if one of their sportswriters in the 80's had inserted a paragraph speculating on the history of the planet Venus and how its fate is a harbinger of the earth's.

I like his openness to ideas.
 

johnmd20

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Joe Posnanski is not a fair comp to anyone. He is, at this point, getting in the GOAT discussion. he is an incredible beat writer (more daily columnist, but stick with me here) for the Royals. He is a fantastic blogger. He is a tremendous columnist (obviously an understatement). I have read a bunch of Red Smith (gifts from well meaning relatives) and obviously while you need to adjust for the times it is hard to say that he is better than Posnanski.

Posnanski is the Michael Jordan, Jack Nicklaus, Joe Montana, Wayne Gretzky and Babe Ruth all rolled up into one chubby guy from Cleveland of sportswriting. He is now the only writer who writes more than twice a week who I read every word he puts out there.
Funny that Pos comes up here. This was taken from Posnanski's message board from the first posting of his "What's Coming" Column.

"An in depth look at NPR and the political scene in America (no, I'm just joking)"

Thank God. TMQ used to be one of my favorite columns but around this time in the football season you start to notice that the guy has only got like 7-8 different talking points and in fact has had the same ones since the column started. I mean yeah what's going on with NPR is interesting but in a football column?
So which one of you wrote that? It was posted by anonymous.
 

Alternate34

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I really like Easterbrook. His odd little astrophysics digressions are interesting. And he makes a lot of great points about bullshit like college football coaches having to have multiple state troopers around them as some sort of vanity detail.

And I hadn't really thought about it in such clear terms before but he makes great points about what chickenshit babies NFL coaches usually are and how terrified of criticism they apparently are.

To compare him to Posnanski is unfair to Easterbrook and, frankly, stupid. It's like complaining that some piece of classical music isn't as jumpy and energetic as some piece of pop music that you like. It's not supposed to be. They're not the same thing. And I wonder if the form of his column upsets people. He writes about whatever he feels like discussing. Easterbrook's doing something you simply couldn't do until the advent of the internet. Imagine what the Glob would have done if one of their sportswriters in the 80's had inserted a paragraph speculating on the history of the planet Venus and how its fate is a harbinger of the earth's.

I like his openness to ideas.
Sure they're not the same thing, but I can't say it's stupid to compare them. Some of the thing you imply as differences (not sure if you woudl assert them as differences) aren't. Easterbrook chooses to write about what he feels like, Posnanski often does too. Posnanski probably has more freedom in choosing within the sports realm, but he ventures outside that often enough. I don't think they are really so different in character that comparison is futile and pointless. But then, I would compare classical music to pop music as they are not too different (well sometimes).

The form is probably my main criticism. In general, it can aid his football writing, but when he starts writing about the science stuff, it is generally uninteresting to me. He doesn't add anything new and refreshing. He doesn't add much understanding of the subject. And he doesn't really bring any sort of expertise. Alot of times, he sounds like he is attempting to be ahead of the curve on some intellectual idea which has little merit but maybe it does!

Beyond that, his form is repetitive. Some repetition is inevitable, but obsessing over bad punts is pretty old. Worse, his criticisms could use added depth and more reflection, which he is entirely capable of. Pats made a bad play call is fine, but he has the intelligence to go beyond because the defenders are geared up to penetrate and attack the line of scrimmage. I mean, football outsiders, a source I trust far more, didn't consider it so bad as a run play is more likely to gain positive yards and even a defense geared up to stop the run will often give up one yard.

I don't think he sucks. He still is an interesting read, but I don't go to his articles first because I know exactly what I will get.
 

johnmd20

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And I wonder if the form of his column upsets people. He writes about whatever he feels like discussing. Easterbrook's doing something you simply couldn't do until the advent of the internet. Imagine what the Glob would have done if one of their sportswriters in the 80's had inserted a paragraph speculating on the history of the planet Venus and how its fate is a harbinger of the earth's.

I like his openness to ideas.
I think what upsets people is that Easterbrook always goes off on Belichek and The Pats over Spygate.(and assorted other Patriot ramblings) The closed mindedness people have towards TMQ is similar to the closed mindedness TMQ has towards the Pats. So it's fitting, I guess.
 

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I think what upsets people is that Easterbrook always goes off on Belichek and The Pats over Spygate.(and assorted other Patriot ramblings) The closed mindedness people have towards TMQ is similar to the closed mindedness TMQ has towards the Pats. So it's fitting, I guess.
I don't really think that's accurate, at least not any more. He's been pretty effusive in his praise of Belichick's football coaching ability over the years and often holds him up as an example compared to the Dick Jaurons of the world. I honestly can't remember the last time TMQ mentioned Spygate. I don't think he likes Belichick as a person, but a lot of people don't and that's really beside the point.

No, Alternate's mention of the repetition is TMQ's columns is more key to the problems I have with him; very often I get the strong sense that he's trying to force-fit the facts into his little catch phrases and narratives to make his points stronger. Sometimes they fit well, sometimes they don't at all. It often reads like cherry-picking.

I skip over 90% of his non-football stuff. Just not that interesting to me, or if the topic is interesting I'd rather read from someone a bit more versed in whatever field he's touching upon.
 

Soxy

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Actually, he gets a pass because the guy who wrote the column doesn't understand what "a variation on" and "incorporates elements of" means. When a guy is tearing apart Easterbrook for his analysis of the Oregon offense and writes repeatedly "I haven't watched a lot of Oregon football" well....it stands for itself.
That's kind of the point. He hasn't watched a lot of Oregon football, but he's not pretending to be an expert on their offense either. Easterbrook hasn't watched a lot of Oregon football and he is pretending to be an expert on their offense, while also using incorrect terminology to describe this offense he's pretending to know about.

But yeah, totaly gave him the gas face!!!!!! You know who else should get the gas face from Braves and Birds (both really passionate fan bases by the way, great site)? P W Botha!
I don't know what this means.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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That's kind of the point. He hasn't watched a lot of Oregon football, but he's not pretending to be an expert on their offense either. Easterbrook hasn't watched a lot of Oregon football and he is pretending to be an expert on their offense, while also using incorrect terminology to describe this offense he's pretending to know about.
No. The guy takes quotes where Easterbrook talks about elements of the Oregon offense (why do you assume that Easterbrook doesn't watch much Oregon football?) and the guy uses asinine analysis to try to disprove. e.g. He claims that Easterbrook is wrong about Oregon using the pistol set because he didn't see them use it in the one game he watched (Stanford). In addition, he claims that they aren't using the Franklin offense because he hasn't seen instances where Oregon's offense has been described that way.......I mean...seriously???? Easterbrook has analyzed the Franklin offense in his columns, he scouts high school football games, he has been a coach of youth football for years....if nothing else, does anyone really think he doesn't "get" the Franklin offensive elements (which aren't all that complex, which is the beauty of Franklin's high school football offensive system) when he sees them?

The Braves have shitty fans. The Falcons have shitty fans. It is fitting that you posted a shitty, poor piece of analysis from a site for their fans.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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But yeah, totaly gave him the gas face!!!!!! You know who else should get the gas face from Braves and Birds (both really passionate fan bases by the way, great site)? P W Botha!
Hey! What the hell?
 

URI

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Please, Yammer don't hurt 'em
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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No. The guy takes quotes where Easterbrook talks about elements of the Oregon offense (why do you assume that Easterbrook doesn't watch much Oregon football?) and the guy uses asinine analysis to try to disprove. e.g. He claims that Easterbrook is wrong about Oregon using the pistol set because he didn't see them use it in the one game he watched (Stanford). In addition, he claims that they aren't using the Franklin offense because he hasn't seen instances where Oregon's offense has been described that way.......I mean...seriously???? Easterbrook has analyzed the Franklin offense in his columns, he scouts high school football games, he has been a coach of youth football for years....if nothing else, does anyone really think he doesn't "get" the Franklin offensive elements (which aren't all that complex, which is the beauty of Franklin's high school football offensive system) when he sees them?
Chris Brown from Smart Football, who certainly has seen a lot of the Oregon offense and knows as much as any writer about Xs and Os in the college game, had this to say. The original piece may have been lacking in some respects, but I'm going to trust Brown that the overall point was accurate: Easterbrook was wrong in all sorts of ways and is out of his league in these discussions.

Braves & Birds does an excellent job demolishing Gregg Easterbrook’s incompetent attempt to explain the Oregon offense. Easterbrook is a bright guy, but he’s incapable of seeing what is perfectly obvious on the field. I don’t know if it’s from watching too many years of NFL football that he cannot see things common to college and high school football, or what. It’s bizarre because he’s trying to be up to speed on the new trends but just has no idea what he’s talking about. It’s like he’s heard the words midline option, no-huddle, pistol, and fly pattern and he put them into a random number generator and produced an article.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Chris Brown is a great, great football blogger.....who is also incredibly thin-skinned and anti "Mainstream Media Guys" (this has, oddly enough, gotten worse since he started writing for the Times). Not for nothing, but I doubt Chris actually read the BravesandBirds article and was happy to take a shot at Easterbrook. That is just Chris being Chris.

Having said that though, folks should spend time on Chris' site and read his stuff that appears here and there around the web (he does guest appearances on a fwe blogs), and his stuff in the Times is massively watered down and doesn't do as good a job as his online stuff, but it is still decent.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Chris Brown is a great, great football blogger.....who is also incredibly thin-skinned and anti "Mainstream Media Guys" (this has, oddly enough, gotten worse since he started writing for the Times). Not for nothing, but I doubt Chris actually read the BravesandBirds article and was happy to take a shot at Easterbrook. That is just Chris being Chris.

Having said that though, folks should spend time on Chris' site and read his stuff that appears here and there around the web (he does guest appearances on a fwe blogs), and his stuff in the Times is massively watered down and doesn't do as good a job as his online stuff, but it is still decent.
I don't know enough about Oregon's offense, or about whether Brown really digested the Braves and Birds article, to judge the particulars of this case. But I definitely second the recommendation of his site, which is fantastic.
 

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From this week's column:

"For Skins coach Mike Shanahan, the decision to yank Donovan McNabb at the two-minute warning was sour. McNabb was playing poorly, on his previous two series heave-hoeing an interception into double coverage and then being sacked on fourth down. But Grossman hadn't been in an NFL game in a year and hadn't started a game in two years. Afterward, Shanahan said he inserted Grossman because, unlike McNabb, he was with the Redskins in 2009 and therefore "knew the terminology" of the Washington two-minute offense. But in 2009, Sherman Smith was the Skins' offensive coordinator and the system was West Coast; now Kyle Shanahan is offensive coordinator, and the system has changed. It's inconceivable that Mike Shanahan, who boasts elaborately of his offensive prowess, kept the same terminology as used by a 2009 offense universally perceived as a flop."

You can't say that the guy who wrote this paragraph is a good football writer. There must be ten major mistakes in this.
 

dirtynine

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The Pats must have played a near-flawless game to get almost no mentions at all (positive or negative) in the column.
 

dcmissle

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He could have and perhaps should have written,

*I was watching the game in my study in Bethesda, and with 1:54 remaining, it became immediately apparent that the Redskins' chances had gone up in smoke."
 

Shelterdog

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I topped out at nine.
Seven. I'll stick with seven.

1.) The big one is the idea that the Shanahans are not West Coast coordinators. Mike Shanahan found a lot of success with the 49ers and has always run what's usually referred to as a modified or run-heavy west coast offense.

2.) The idea that Shanahan would necessarily switch terminology because last year's offense was bad (and would do so because of his ego). Shanahan is going to use the terminology he always uses irrespective of what his predecessor did. If Shanahan and Smith were close enough on the same coaching tree they might use the exact same terminology and scheme even if they applied it differently-that's actually a reason teams sometimes intentionally bring in a guy who used similar terminology (e.g. Mangini replacing Romeo).

3.) Related to point two, the idea that the Shanahans would definitely use different terminology than Sherm Smith. Different coordinators use the same or virtually identical terminology all the time. I personally didn't know if the Zorn/Smith west coast offense uses much of the same terminology as the Shanahan system, so I looked it up and found an article where Kyle Shanahan says his offense uses some of the same terminology and concepts as the Zorn offense. http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Kyle_Shanahan__New_Offense_To_Have_Similar_Foundation_105982.jsp

4.) That Grossman was on the Redskins last year.

5.) That Grossman didn't throw a pass last year. Yeah he only threw 9 (and in Decemember so within the year) but still.

6.) That Grossman wouldn't know the Shanahan terminology better. Since Grossman was on the Texans with Kyle Shanahan as offensive coordinator he actually probably did know the terminology fairly well.

7.) It's not wrong but it's misleading to describe Sherm Smith as OC. It was Zorn's offense, Zorn called the plays, and then Sherm Lewis took over. This was highly publicized.

That's all I can think of but it's a huge number of mistakes for one paragraph.
 

dwightinright

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Rex Grossman rules.

Every single year that he has been in the NFL and QB'ed more than 8 games his team has gone to the Super Bowl. EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
 

Shelterdog

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Rex Grossman rules.

Every single year that he has been in the NFL and QB'ed more than 8 games his team has gone to the Super Bowl. EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
That's why his comment was so stupid. He's gilding the lily and adding a bunch of extraneous, factually incorrect detail to the pretty basic point that, with 2 minutes to go, benching a possible hall of famer for Rex freaking Grossman is probably a dumb idea.
 

Burt Reynoldz

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From today's column:

Suddenly the Raiders are a hot ticket. Oakland has not beaten any team that would make the playoffs if the postseason began today, so TMQ is not yet sold on the Raiders.
I know they aren't great, but Seattle is in first in the NFC West so I'm pretty sure they'd make the playoffs if they started today. Did he not even scan the standings?
 

Shelterdog

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I know they aren't great, but Seattle is in first in the NFC West so I'm pretty sure they'd make the playoffs if they started today. Did he not even scan the standings?
He's always wrong on stuff like that. The bigger problem is that it's just a stupid metric at this point in the season; there's too much randomness in team's records and schedules to make anything of this.
 

Shelterdog

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So you are pretty confident that the Raiders are a good team?
No, but their failure to beat a team that would have make playoffs if the season ended November 16 isn't the reason (as TMQ wrote) or only Seattle (as was actually the case).

By that metric the Raiders got better when they lost to Pittsburgh because KC would now make the playoffs and the Raiders beat KC.
 

Myt1

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Soooooooooo it's Randy Moss's fault that Cortland Finnegan and Andre Johnson got into a fight.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Soooooooooo it's Randy Moss's fault that Cortland Finnegan and Andre Johnson got into a fight.
Well, it's the first principle of statistics that correlation equals causation, thus his point about Moss was both reasonable and intelligent.
 

dcmissle

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Odd that he writes a column suggesting that the Colts' trajectory may be down long term (echoing one of our posters here) and it's not just because of injury -- but a lot of the stuff he cites is injury related.

Yeah, injuries are a fact of life in the League, but for every team like Green Bay that triumphs over them, there are at least 10 teams that fall flat on their faces when faced with what Indy has endured.

Also, I understand that Easterbrook does not like bullies. I hate them too. But I don't believe that Bill Polian has "worn out his welcome" -- and if he has, there are probably 20 teams in the League that would beat down his door if he left the Colts.
 

pvg44

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edit: never mind, I thought he wrote it today.
 

Shelterdog

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Also, I understand that Easterbrook does not like bullies. I hate them too. But I don't believe that Bill Polian has "worn out his welcome" -- and if he has, there are probably 20 teams in the League that would beat down his door if he left the Colts.
Yeah, even if Polian were fired tomorrow (and he won't be) it's hard to say that a guy who has lasted 13 years wore out his welcome.

Also, the booing TMQ harps on at the start of his column was because of the uncalled PI on Weddle, not because Indy fans hate Peyton.

The Colts are exactly where the Pats were in 2008: a still good or even very good team having a down year, and probably trending down, because of a few consecutive crappy drafts (a possibility for the best team given the randomness of the draft), some bad injury luck, and some bad free agent signings/resignings. A good off-season or two and they're moving in the right direction again.
 

dynomite

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Soooooooooo it's Randy Moss's fault that Cortland Finnegan and Andre Johnson got into a fight.
You forgot that it's also Randy's fault that the Titans are 0-3 since he got there.

The Vince Young and Kerry Collins injuries and Rusty Smith's abject suck? Child's play compared to the destructive whirlwind caused by a moody wide receiver. "Sure, the Titans might have been mediocre to begin with and might be starting a 3rd string rookie taken in the 6th round at QB, but when TMQ saw Randy Moss get mixed up on a play he wrote Game Over in his notebook. Then creepily oogled over-makeuped cheerleaders."
 

Jimy Hendrix

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You forgot that it's also Randy's fault that the Titans are 0-3 since he got there.

The Vince Young and Kerry Collins injuries and Rusty Smith's abject suck? Child's play compared to the destructive whirlwind caused by a moody wide receiver. "Sure, the Titans might have been mediocre to begin with and might be starting a 3rd string rookie taken in the 6th round at QB, but when TMQ saw Randy Moss get mixed up on a play he wrote Game Over in his notebook. Then creepily oogled over-makeuped cheerleaders."
Also, he got angry at a Christmas tree.
 

Shelterdog

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Also, he got angry at a Christmas tree.
And superhero movies because the comic book spiderman's homemade-by-a-high school student-web-shooters are WAY more realistic than the mutation he had in the movie, and plus the real Wolverine isn't as strong as they made him in the movies.
 

loshjott

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TMQ's love-hate feelings toward Belichick are on full display today.

Money quote:

Bill Belichick is hard to take on many levels, especially his indifference to ethics, but he's the best football coach of his generation in terms of production. He is the personification of America's love-hate relationship with sports: really good at what he does, yet setting such a bad example you wouldn't want your kids to emulate him. New England this season has no offensive coordinator and no defensive coordinator. This is Belichick's latest challenge to himself: Can he outcoach not only the other team's head coach but the other team's entire staff? Apparently the answer is yes. If only Belichick were admirable as a person.
Full link.
 

BrotherMouzone

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TMQ's love-hate feelings toward Belichick are on full display today.

Money quote:



Full link.
Says the guy who once wrote this in a blog about Jews in the media:

Set aside what it says about Hollywood that today even Disney thinks what the public needs is ever-more-graphic depictions of killing the innocent as cool amusement. Disney's CEO, Michael Eisner, is Jewish; the chief of Miramax, Harvey Weinstein, is Jewish. Yes, there are plenty of Christian and other Hollywood executives who worship money above all else, promoting for profit the adulation of violence. Does that make it right for Jewish executives to worship money above all else, by promoting for profit the adulation of violence? Recent European history alone ought to cause Jewish executives to experience second thoughts about glorifying the killing of the helpless as a fun lifestyle choice.
 

Shelterdog

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TMQ's love-hate feelings toward Belichick are on full display today.
Spygate was obviously a big mistake, but other than that why isn't Belichick admirable?

He's serious about his job, he's very, very good at it, and he works very hard at it. He's humourless but polite, generally self effacing, apparently quite charitable with both his time and money in private. When he performs well he credits others first (unlike, say, Rex Ryan, who frequently talks about how good his defensive schemes are and how he's always top ten in the league in defense); Belichick blames himself first when his team performs poorly. He's a sourpuss on the sidelines but every coach is-it's a high stress environment.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Yeah, Belichick isn't someone you want your kids to admire. Hard-working, no-nonsense, a great leader, equally attentive to details and the big picture....

Wait, he's basically a great CEO!

TMQ illustrates a great pet peeve of mine here. He conflates adults' perspective of Belichick with those of kids. Look - kids don't understand or probably even know anything about Belichick's affair/divorce. All they see is a guy coaching a winning team with lots of hard-nosed players. Kids like winning. They're not looking to 'emulate' Belichick any more than I tried to 'emulate' Parcells when he shot his way out of NE a week before SB XXXI. Kids don't care about that shit. They like wearing Wes Welker's jersey and laughing at Wilfork's girth.

So, uh, fuck off, TMQ.
 

In Vino Vinatieri

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Spygate was obviously a big mistake, but other than that why isn't Belichick admirable?
Not that it makes it any better, but TMQ routinely harangues people for what he perceives to be poor sportsmanship, and Belichick is a frequent offender. He seems to create feedback loops where one factor will make another negative factor look worse, and then the second factor increasing in magnitude makes the poor sportsmanship have more importance. And then an increased importance of the displays of poor sportsmanship make the other thing look worse... ad infinitum.

Good sportsmanship can be a very positive trait, but lacking it isn't the end of the world. TMQ acts as if poor sportsmanship would make the entire spygate scandal a deliberate attempt for Belichick to show how the rules don't apply to him and it's all about Belichick figuratively flipping-the-bird to everyone else in the world. Sorry TMQ, but Belichick lacks some social grace because he watches coaches film in all of his free time. He probably writes schemes out on napkins when he takes his wife/girlfriend out to dinner. Storming off the field before shaking hands, or wearing a hoodie with the arms cut off half-way aren't part of some grand master-plan to flaunt the rules, he's just a nerd who is intensely devoted to his chosen profession.

I'm positive part of the "he's not a good example" with regards to Belichick is the poor sportsmanship he often seems to show. It is a recurring topic in TMQ's columns.
 

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I'm just gonna go on the record today and predict that TMQ will mention the Jets coach who tripped up the opposing player, say how horrible it was but at the same time say that Spygate was worse.

TMQ just won't be able to help himself.
 

doc

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I'm just gonna go on the record today and predict that TMQ will mention the Jets coach who tripped up the opposing player, say how horrible it was but at the same time say that Spygate was worse.

TMQ just won't be able to help himself.
Close, never mentions the Jets coach tripping a player, yet hits the spygate rehash button here:

All the above make New England the NFL's best team of the moment -- the only on-field criticism I can think of is they may be peaking too soon. But this being the Patriots, there's a dark side. In 2007, Belichick admitted to years of what seemed to everyone except him as cheating. If New England returns to the Super Bowl, the sports world might have to relive Spygate -- including the unresolved questions of why Belichick wouldn't come clean until forced, and why he never really apologized. If the Patriots win this year's Super Bowl, people might wonder if they are cheating still. Probably not, but considering the elaborate, systematic nature of their previous clandestine efforts, this can't be ruled out. Many football enthusiasts, including in the league front office, might not mind if the Patriots are knocked off early in the playoffs, and Spygate: The Sequel doesn't happen.
What a tool.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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loshjott mentioned TMQ's "love-hate" feelings towards Belichick, and that's on full display today. Doc's posted paragraph above comes after SIXTEEN paragraphs just gushing about the Patriots, Belichick, and Brady. You won't find a more positive column about the Pats anywhere for the first sixteen paragraphs. So Easterbrook clearly deeply admires what the Patriots have done this year, but he appears to be unable to let Spygate (now 3 years in the past) go at all because he finishes it up with the Spygate stuff.

Weebs nailed it: he can't help himself. He's got to mention it.

He's a pretty conflicted guy.