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One of those subsets bring in revenue. The other doesn't.

Didn't we go through this debate when the staff complained to begin with and a lot of people actually in the journalism profession here weighed in that it's what you signed up for? I'm not entirely sure how they're trapped? One thing Simmons really shouldn't take heat over is finding talent and promoting it.
 

Leskanic's Thread

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I guess since it came out before 1980 nobody at The Ringer has ever seen The Friends of Eddie Coyle, the actual most Boston movie ever and one of the best crime films of the 70's if not ever.
This made me think of Mitchum bellowing "Numbah 4, Bobby Orr," which reminded me that my choices for "best movie Boston accent by a non-Bostonian" finalists are him in Eddie Coyle and Renner in The Town.
 

johnmd20

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Until she has to entertain Zoe Simmons for an hour in the third or fourth episode.
I don't understand this. Simmons does 2 or usually 3 episodes a week, not including his visits to a variety of other podcasts like the Rewatchables. So let's just say he's done around 100 episodes this year. Zoe has been on 1. She is a presence in that she is not a presence at all.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm sure there is a non-compete in their contract prohibiting personal podcasts.
Yeah, I doubt it. If they don't view the employee as a potential on-air talent (and if they're not given opportunity to be on a company podcast, what other view could they have?), I don't think they will stop them from producing their own.

That said, the employee doesn't necessarily need to put the podcast out to prove themselves. Recording an episode or three to demonstrate their concept and show they have the chops to host might be enough. It's certainly better than sitting quietly in their office grumbling about Jackie Mac getting a shot before them.
 

kenneycb

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I don't understand this. Simmons does 2 or usually 3 episodes a week, not including his visits to a variety of other podcasts like the Rewatchables. So let's just say he's done around 100 episodes this year. Zoe has been on 1. She is a presence in that she is not a presence at all.
Yeah but if she wasn’t on that one episode for 15 minutes Micah Peters (or insert name here) would totally have his own podcast at this point.
 

8slim

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I listened to the Usual Suspects episode of The Rewatchables over the weekend. It was great, aside from the first few minutes where Simmons talked about "cancel culture". Thankfully Chris Ryan was able to quickly course-correct the discussion, and they got into an "art vs. artist" conversation. But man, can someone at Ringer HQ tell Bill he needs to not let the words "cancel culture" come out of his mouth? Like, ever again. I love Bill's presence on The Rewatchables, but he just isn't equipped to have that conversation.
 

Leather

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The way people write about Simmons is so judgmental and condescending. It's so weird.
I think the way people rush to point out a nonexistent double standard is, if anything, weirder.

Name a national or high profile, sports writer who doesn’t get criticized for doing/saying stupid shit. Peter King, Dan Shaughnessy, Barstool, even Joe Posnanski has taken his knocks.
 

kenneycb

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Oh yay, the same Simmons discussion from the same people using the same talking points.

For the record I was just trying to be cheeky.
 

johnmd20

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I think the way people rush to point out a nonexistent double standard is, if anything, weirder.

Name a national or high profile, sports writer who doesn’t get criticized for doing/saying stupid shit. Peter King, Dan Shaughnessy, Barstool, even Joe Posnanski has taken his knocks.
It seems like people make it a lot more personal with Simmons. A line like, "He just isn't equipped to have that conversation," is just so judgmental and condescending. If anything, Simmons is more equipped, because he's actually seen what can happen, even when you're doing your best. He's actually built a content creation company. Nobody is perfect. Message boards want perfection and perfection only. Anything less and it's, "You just aren't equipped." I can't imagine being that quick to judge but maybe it is just me.

Obviously, taking shots at his daughter for being on one podcast in 2020 was extremely petty. Again, making it weirdly personal. I guess Simmons put his daughter in the public eye, so it's fair. But it doesn't seem fair, it seems oddly resentful.
 

8slim

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It seems like people make it a lot more personal with Simmons. A line like, "He just isn't equipped to have that conversation," is just so judgmental and condescending. If anything, Simmons is more equipped, because he's actually seen what can happen, even when you're doing your best. He's actually built a content creation company. Nobody is perfect. Message boards want perfection and perfection only. Anything less and it's, "You just aren't equipped." I can't imagine being that quick to judge but maybe it is just me.

Obviously, taking shots at his daughter for being on one podcast in 2020 was extremely petty. Again, making it weirdly personal. I guess Simmons put his daughter in the public eye, so it's fair. But it doesn't seem fair, it seems oddly resentful.
Are you the same poster I read in V&N, or are there two people managing one account?
 

8slim

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And again, Bill stinks at talking about "cancel culture". He's great at talking about many, many other things. But when he leads a podcast with "Can we like a Kevin Spacey movie because of cancel culture?" you know you're in for a rough minute, until Chris Ryan bails him out. It's OK, Tom Brady got critiqued when he threw picks, no one is perfect.
 

johnmd20

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Are you the same poster I read in V&N, or are there two people managing one account?
Donald Trump is a piece of shit human being, criminal, failure, rapist, money launderer and tax cheat who is doing quite possibly irreparable damage to this country and the US democracy. I am extremely comfortable judging him. But you make a point.
 

Leather

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It seems like people make it a lot more personal with Simmons. A line like, "He just isn't equipped to have that conversation," is just so judgmental and condescending. If anything, Simmons is more equipped, because he's actually seen what can happen, even when you're doing your best. He's actually built a content creation company. Nobody is perfect. Message boards want perfection and perfection only. Anything less and it's, "You just aren't equipped." I can't imagine being that quick to judge but maybe it is just me.

Obviously, taking shots at his daughter for being on one podcast in 2020 was extremely petty. Again, making it weirdly personal. I guess Simmons put his daughter in the public eye, so it's fair. But it doesn't seem fair, it seems oddly resentful.
Yeah, I guess I see the criticisms of Simmons as a result of people knowing (and even caring) about him so much. People are so familiar with him, and his way of thinking about the world, that they are quick to recognize his foibles and lapses in logic.

Another part of it, though, is that Simmons' media personality is built on letting his readers/listeners into his personal life, and to be privy to his personal thoughts. There may not be a single media personality (aside from Stern, maybe) who has made his/her personal history, or opinions, so central to their content. It's nearly impossible to be critical of Simmons without, in some way, commenting negatively on his personality or personal history. We *know* the kinds of movies he adores, the kind of music, the comments he's made about actresses, the company he keeps, etc... because that's what he's chosen to tell us. That's what made him appealing in the first place! The downside to that is now he's laid the groundwork for certain inferences, and to allow fans to place his current comments in a larger context.

So I think when 8Slim says "It's cringeworthy to hear Bill Simmons complain about cancel culture", it's fair to presume that's because Simmons feels personally threatened by "cancel culture" because he's made it abundantly clear over the years that he likes the stuff that's being cancelled! And that's leaving aside his history of producing or being involved in some stuff that's perhaps not "cancel" worthy, but certainly adjacent. And the fact that he'd rather complain about it rather than reflect and maybe evolve a little bit, makes it just a little harder to respect the guy. It would be easier, as a fan of his, if he just refrained from addressing it at all.
 

8slim

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And the fact that he'd rather complain about it rather than reflect and maybe evolve a little bit, makes it just a little harder to respect the guy. It would be easier, as a fan of his, if he just refrained from addressing it at all.
FWIW, I actually think Simmons has reflected on things, and has evolved to a decent extent. I relate to that because, as someone roughly his age with similar pop-culture sensibilities, I have as well. So I'm not taking a personal shot at the guy, and I'm certainly not asking for "perfection". My comment was entirely about him being lousy at articulating a coherent take re: "cancel culture". Once Ryan moved them into a discussion about separating art from the artist, it was much more interesting and productive. But he needed help to get there.
 

PedroKsBambino

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That's a fair comment and a good point about his style, Leather.

I think what some of us find distasteful, or at least disproportionately applied to Simmons relative to other writers, is the constant attacks on his motives. He has plenty of flaws as a writer/talent manager. But some have tried to argue he isn't innovative or successful---that's simply preposterous. Some WEEI-caller level posters here chased him when he was here to play "gotcha" and that's lame. Some others made legit points about inconsistency with his posts and thin-skinned defensiveness, but ones not always made about other posters. Those continue for years since he left too.

It can (and I think pretty clearly is) true at the same time that Simmons is thin-skinned and quite imperfect especially as his profile heightens and that there's a set of posters here who are unable to see or comment on him in any balanced and objective way.
 
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FWIW, I actually think Simmons has reflected on things, and has evolved to a decent extent. I relate to that because, as someone roughly his age with similar pop-culture sensibilities, I have as well. So I'm not taking a personal shot at the guy, and I'm certainly not asking for "perfection". My comment was entirely about him being lousy at articulating a coherent take re: "cancel culture". Once Ryan moved them into a discussion about separating art from the artist, it was much more interesting and productive. But he needed help to get there.
Can you spell out what a coherent cancel culture take is? Isn't it, by nature, muddled and difficult to figure out because each individual draws their own lines around what they wish to "cancel"? I feel like one of the problems was that Bill is uncomfortable with his own line, which includes doing a podcast about the Usual Suspects starring Kevin Spacey and directed by Bryan Singer, because of how quick the twitter-verse is to jump on him for being an insensitive bigot.
 

luckiestman

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I don't know if others care but I would prefer if the general examination of Bill's life took place in the thread that already exists for that topic.
 

johnmd20

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Man alive, can Simmons stop fucking up the audio on his podcasts? The rewatchables is tough because you either keep it loud enough to hear Simmons, and then get your ear torn off by Greenwald and Ryan, or keep it low enough not to get your ear torn off but then you can't hear Simmons.

How hard is it to check your audio levels?
 

Domer

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That seems to be the result of Bill hiring his nephew to hit the record button instead of an actual producer
 

TheGazelle

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I'm still struggling to understand how Sal lives in LA without air conditioning, which was my main takeaway from the most recent Parent Corner.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I think the way people rush to point out a nonexistent double standard is, if anything, weirder.

Name a national or high profile, sports writer who doesn’t get criticized for doing/saying stupid shit. Peter King, Dan Shaughnessy, Barstool, even Joe Posnanski has taken his knocks.
Did Pos get shit for something other than Paterno? (genuine question). Barstool is easy, that's their goal and brand. Shank, I don't think outside of the Boston market many people would even know who he is, he's not Bob Ryan; again genuine question does he do the PTI/ATH the shows often? I haven't seen those in years. King does, but I think that's somewhat specific to here, like Simmmons.

I think johnmd is 100% correct, it's weird how much crap he takes here; I wasn't a member when he was here I don't think, but I have to think that is part of it. He doesn't aspire or pretend to be a Pulitzer winning journalist, he's a content creator and he's damn good at it. And he finds talent - Lowe, Greenwald, Browne, Ryan Fennessey, Serrano, Lambert, Litman, Rubin, Barnwell, Morris, you can probably give him Klosterman too...am I missing anyone? And they all love him. That's a pretty damn respectable stable of people he either discovered or turned over reins to and nurtured their creativity.

As to Simmons and Burke, I don't think he should get too much shit over that. She was indeed very early to the game as far as national broadcasts as a woman calling men's professional sports. It also was 15 years ago. Does that make her incapable inherently? Of course not and had he said that he should get tons of crap for it, it's patently absurd, but I'm not sure that's the point he was trying to convey. If anything is true, it's that he's not concise and he's fully self-admitted that. The WNBA thing I think should get more heat, but that's possibly because I personally don't care for Burke very much. Frankly if Sarah Thomas wasn't a down judge I'm sure many people (not necessarily here, in general) would at least be like "whoa, is that I female NFL ref?"

I gotta disagree with you man, apologies, but I don't think it's a nonexistent double standard, I think there's a large subset here that have a genuine dislike for for what ever reason, likely that he started out on Digital City as a schlub himself and now is friggin loaded - I think I've read more about how many houses he has from here than even from him. I do agree his tropes are old and tired. If I hear about Teen Wolf one more time I might smack him. But just scroll back a handful of pages and you've seen him criticized as a parent, as an uncle, as sexist, as ignorant (the cancel culture thing was poor form, but overblown), he got shit about his staff wanting to unionize or get more pay, etc. King only really gets crap for Springsteen and Goodell in reality along with his silly Things I Think I Think type crap.
 

luckiestman

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I was late to it, but I am finding Rusillo's podcast to be really good lately.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Russillo’s Life Advice > Parent Corner
I kind of want to see someone slip in an anonymous Parent Corner for Rusillo to take as a Life Advice email, just to unknowingly say "You're just an asshole" to Bill like he did to the homewrecker guy on today's pod.
 

luckiestman

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Russillo’s Life Advice > Parent Corner

I don’t feel the need to rank them, I love them both but ......since you started it, I would agree with you on average but peak Parent Corner is better than peak Life Advice.
 

ifmanis5

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That seems to be the result of Bill hiring his nephew to hit the record button instead of an actual producer
He also ran the live read for Se7en during the Kicking and Screaming pod. But hey, not open mic night.
The Kicking and Screaming pod is thankfully very good, though.

Ringer Union is making a strong push today to have their demands met...
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We want to ensure that everyone responsible for The Ringer’s great content is treated with respect, given equal opportunities for advancement, and paid fairly. Ahead of tonight’s game, we’re asking you to support our fight for a more equitable workplace by sharing this message.
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jmcc5400

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Just getting to the Kicking and Screaming Rewatchables and literally laughed out loud at this line by Andy about Chris from the early days of their friendship in the '90s:

"One of the foundational things of my relationship with Chris is that he was always reading the first page of Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow."
 

Spelunker

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Just getting to the Kicking and Screaming Rewatchables and literally laughed out loud at this line by Andy about Chris from the early days of their friendship in the '90s:

"One of the foundational things of my relationship with Chris is that he was always reading the first page of Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow."
It was so specific and perfect that it almost hurt. Granted, I was in a very similar place with Ulysses, so it cut deep.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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I think anyone who has attempted Gravity's Rainbow has found themselves in that same place. I remember picking it up reading ten pages and having to go back and re-read it all because I had no idea what happened.
 

nattysez

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The messaging around today's NBA Desktop implies it was the last one. That'd be a shame -- I'm curious what would drive that decision.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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The messaging around today's NBA Desktop implies it was the last one. That'd be a shame -- I'm curious what would drive that decision.
Dammit, *Emmy-winning* NBA Desktop was great viewing. Must be Gallagher or Concepcion leaving the Ringer soon. Jason Concepcion and Shea Serrano are doing the enjoyable Connect podcast which doesn't seem to be concluding just yet, but perhaps those are banked.

Edit: Reading between the lines, Concepcion's two main collaborators, Jason Gallagher and Mallory Rubin, are Creative Editor and Editor in Chief respectively who do not sign under the Ringer Union letters while Jason C. does. With his work on Binge Mode and NBA Desktop, if and when Jason C is a free agent and not being offered a lot to stay with the Ringer he can make bank somewhere else.
 
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thebtskink

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They've been teasing the next season of Binge Mode the past three weeks, so I think Conception isn't leaving but probably gonna be tied up.
 

johnmd20

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Maybe they are going to change their mind, but it's clear that was a series finale. Which is odd because it seems like it's pretty popular. Or maybe it just has a very vocal, but small, fanbase.

edit - hell, Jason C won an emmy for this show. There must be a good reason to get rid of this. I'd guess Gallagher might be leaving. He is a talented dude.
 

johnmd20

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Was wishing for Tolkien myself, but I'll listen to every episode regardless. I love their knowledge and hilarity, it's a great podcast and it does not hurt that I've seen every movie multiple times and that is only in the last two years. It'll be extra fresh.

That said, hopefully the screaming is less aggressive.
 

luckiestman

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There was a part of the Spotlight Rewatchables where Bill compares Cardinal Law getting promoted in Rome after the Pedophile Priest scandal to, I think, Steve Javie getting put on some referee committee after the Donaghy scandal. I was walking through a grocery listening to this and had to stand to the side and stop for a second to register the appreciation I had for Bill in the moment.