The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

[lexrageorge]

The Jones pick, as bad as it was, isn't the reason the Pats lost the game. It's the fact that the Pats had 5 drives end in punts.

Without Bourne and Parker (who I don't think is any good, but still....), the WR corps transforms from merely below average to possibly the worst unit in the NFL, and it's not particularly close either.

 

[8slim]

The Jones pick, as bad as it was, isn't the reason the Pats lost the game. It's the fact that the Pats had 5 drives end in punts.

Without Bourne and Parker (who I don't think is any good, but still....), the WR corps transforms from merely below average to possibly the worst unit in the NFL, and it's not particularly close either.

Yeah, the pick was merely the cherry on top of an overall lousy performance. And as I keep saying, it’s a comprehensive offensive disaster. Every unit stinks.

Also, when the Pats WR corps is at full strength, what unit is worse?

 

[Traut]

The only team with a worse point differential is the Giants -92. The Patriots are at -90. The Patriots have scored the fewest points in the AFC at 118. Only the Giants have scored fewer points in the NFL at 95.

This is a terrible team. The offense is worse than anything they have rolled out since the days before Robert Edwards.

There is not a single player on the offensive side of the ball, including Mac Jones, who will be here the next time this organization is relevant. I'm not even sure how many guys, including Jones, would start on other teams.

If the Vikings, in light of Kirk Cousin's achilles going all Aaron Rodgers, offered up a 4th round pick for Jones - they should jump all over it.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The Mac INT yesterday is because (once again) he doesn't have an NFL arm. For that throw to be completed it must be thrown with pace, and Mac doesn't have the ability to throw it in there with pace.

This is a problem that is unfixable. It will cost him his career.

 

[mikeford]

The Mac INT yesterday is because (once again) he doesn't have an NFL arm. For that throw to be completed it must be thrown with pace, and Mac doesn't have the ability to throw it in there with pace.

This is a problem that is unfixable. It will cost him his career.

Might've helped if he both stepped into the throw and thrown it a second and a half earlier when Ramsey was breaking in the opposite direction to cover the WR running the post route.

More than any physical limitations, he doesn't have an NFL QB brain. He was staring the receiver down the entire way after the pump fake.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Might've helped if he both stepped into the throw and thrown it a second and a half earlier when Ramsey was breaking in the opposite direction to cover the WR running the post route.

More than any physical limitations, he doesn't have an NFL QB brain. He was staring the receiver down the entire way after the pump fake.

Part of the reason he doesn't have an NFL arm is because his footwork is always terrible. He never steps into throws all that well.

 

[lexrageorge]

Regarding the interceptions:

There are 7 QB's tied for the lead league with 8 picks, including Mac Jones. Of the other 7, we have:

Jimmy G, who is having a poor season and is likely seeing the results of multiple major injuries catch up to him. He's also 32. Would not be surprised if this is his last season as a designated starting QB; could even be his final NFL season.

Jordan Love, who is no better than Mac Jones, and may even be worse.

Sam Howell, for whom the jury is still out. He had one really bad game with 4 picks against the Bills, but has been otherwise statistically better than Mac. There is also a fair question as to whether he will last the season, having been sacked 41(!!) times already.

Jalen Hurts, who is otherwise having a decent season and has thrown the ball much better than Mac.

Josh Allen, who typically does throw his fair share of picks. To be fair, his INT numbers are a bit inflated due to his 3 pick game to open the season against the Jets. But he'll also probably be known as the QB that "almost gets there but throws a killer interception late".

And Patrick Mahomes, who is being hurt by his support cast (non-Kelce division), and so is having what for him is a down season statistically. But he's also thrown 44 more passes than Mac, and completing 36 more of those attempts.

Given that the premise of Mac was that he was supposed to be able minimize mistakes, he has consistently failed to do so this season. There is no 4-pick game we can point to that is inflating his numbers.

 

[mikeford]

Part of the reason he doesn't have an NFL arm is because his footwork is always terrible. He never steps into throws all that well.

100% agreement, that to me is also an example of his lack of QB brain. We're in year 3 here, you should know how to do these things by now if you're gonna make it.

He's not gonna make it. When he's done here, he'll be out of the league.

 

[BaseballJones]

The Mac INT yesterday is because (once again) he doesn't have an NFL arm. For that throw to be completed it must be thrown with pace, and Mac doesn't have the ability to throw it in there with pace.

This is a problem that is unfixable. It will cost him his career.

I don't think any NFL QB completes that throw. Ramsey had it ALL THE WAY, and had time to make the pick even if it was thrown harder. It was just a terrible throw by Mac, because of a terrible decision by Mac.

 

[sezwho]

nm - just saying that Mac is still potentially rebuilding his confidence and field presence. It’s clearly better than it was, and it’s still possible the ceiling is higher than appears. The arm is weak but the pick throw wasn’t planted.

Not many seats on Mac bus and im pretty sure they’re evacuating Mac Island.

 

[rodderick]

I don't think any NFL QB completes that throw. Ramsey had it ALL THE WAY, and had time to make the pick even if it was thrown harder. It was just a terrible throw by Mac, because of a terrible decision by Mac.

Yeah, maybe the Herberts or Allens of the world throw that ball with such velocity that Ramsey is only able to break the pass up instead of easily catching it, but Mac was baited the whole way AND threw it late across the field after being baited. The fact that the ball took 3 minutes to get there was just the corn kernel on the shit cake.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yeah, maybe the Herberts or Allens of the world throw that ball with such velocity that Ramsey is only able to break the pass up instead of easily catching it, but Mac was baited the whole way AND threw it late across the field after being baited. The fact that the ball took 3 minutes to get there was just the corn kernel on the shit cake.

Eh....I don't know. High level NFL CBs intercept hard-thrown passes all the time. That play had no chance. Just like Tua's interception (by Dugger) had no chance.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I don't think any NFL QB completes that throw. Ramsey had it ALL THE WAY, and had time to make the pick even if it was thrown harder. It was just a terrible throw by Mac, because of a terrible decision by Mac.

I think he throws it earlier and harder it's an easy completion, Bourne starts drifting upfield because when he turns for the ball Mac hasn't even looked at him yet. Now maybe he doesn't get to the sticks that way, but Bourne turns to look for the ball at the 20, Ramsey is at the 10, moving the wrong direction.... Mac then throws a late floater that gets picked at the 15.

I assume that was supposed to come out right away ideally then Bourne is asked to make Ramsey miss, or at least get as much YAC as he can... if the pass doesn't come he's to make his way towards the sticks and if the CB stays cleared out get the longer completion.

 

[rodderick]

Eh....I don't know. High level NFL CBs intercept hard-thrown passes all the time. That play had no chance. Just like Tua's interception (by Dugger) had no chance.

I'm not talking about Ramsey possibly finding the catch itself hard to make due to the velocity, just that if the ball arrives much sooner, maybe he's not even in position to get two hands on it in the first place. The Tua pick was completely different, Dugger was basically sitting there underneath.

 

[BaseballJones]

The sad thing is that we've said this (what @rodderick is saying above) to WAY too many Mac passes the last couple of years. Just bad decisions and poor throws that are pretty easy interceptions for the defense.

-sigh-

 

[rodderick]

The sad thing is that we've said this (what @rodderick is saying above) to WAY too many Mac passes the last couple of years. Just bad decisions and poor throws that are pretty easy interceptions for the defense.

-sigh-

Yeah, I'm not in the "with his physical tools Mac could never be successful" camp, just that the smaller margin of error they provide make it so his processing miscues become turnovers very consistently. He'd need to be much more advanced in his anticipation and reaction times post snap to minimize the arm.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The sad thing is that we've said this (what @rodderick is saying above) to WAY too many Mac passes the last couple of years. Just bad decisions and poor throws that are pretty easy interceptions for the defense.

-sigh-

What's so frustrating is that on the field he's a goddamn idiot, and football processing was supposed to be one of his strengths. He thinks he's still playing for a powerhouse like Alabama where they are simply superior to their opponents and acts accordingly.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Yeah, I'm not in the "with his physical tools Mac could never be successful" camp, just that the smaller margin of error they provide make it so his processing miscues become turnovers very consistently. He'd need to be much more advanced in his anticipation and reaction times post snap to minimize the arm.

This is really well-said.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Jimmy G, ... He's also 32.

This just made me feel really old. I apparently still think of him as the young heir apparent.

 

[ShaneTrot]

I was listening to Curran's podcast and he detailed Mac's screwups and then went on to say if they are drafting in the top five they should take Harrison Jr or Alt. I would love to have either player but if we are drafting in the top five it's because Mac remains a dumpster fire during the 'easier' part of the schedule. A new QB has become a necessity.

 

[Arroyoyo]

Just saw this and it blew my mind.

On the Ramsey pick, at the time the pass was released, Ramsey was ten yards away from Bourne and traveling in the opposite direction. Somehow he comfortably made the interception.

That’s how much Mac lobbed that ball. Unbelievable. He’s just not an NFL quarterback.

 

[Arroyoyo]

This may also explain why receivers are “never open.”

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Just saw this and it blew my mind.

On the Ramsey pick, at the time the pass was released, Ramsey was ten yards away from Bourne and traveling in the opposite direction. Somehow he comfortably made the interception.

That’s how much Mac lobbed that ball. Unbelievable. He’s just not an NFL quarterback.

I don't think that ball is getting there no matter who throws it honestly. Ramsay made a great play, and completely fooled Mac.

Not much different than what Peppers did to Allen last week on this play. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2xH8aAYWQ


Most of the ground Ramsey "made up" there was because the pass was leading Bourne on a go route. The interception itself happened at around the 10 yard line, which is right where Ramsey is in that screen shot, he basically just turned around. Pause this at the 5 second mark:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUyy7xJGjtA



IMO, just a poor read by Mac and a great play by Ramsey. The throw itself wasn't some wounded duck, it was over a linebacker and leading Bourne to a spot that Mac simply didn't think Ramsey would be, which to be clear, is not a defense of Mac in any way. It was an awful decision.

 

[DJnVa]

Matt Chatham disagrees on the arm strength.

 

[Justthetippett]

I don't think any NFL QB completes that throw. Ramsey had it ALL THE WAY, and had time to make the pick even if it was thrown harder. It was just a terrible throw by Mac, because of a terrible decision by Mac.

The good QBs either don't make the target decision Mac made or recognize that Ramsey will close the space and go back shoulder or otherwise put the ball where it's either a catch or an incompletion. Lollipopping it out there like Bourne was completely uncovered was...not the play.

 

[rodderick]

Matt Chatham disagrees on the arm strength.

I don't know how you can watch the NFL and believe he doesn't have an arm talent issue. The idea that Mac would throw that pass to Bourne consciously is completely ridiculous. He can only "rip" throws when he has a good pocket to navigate and step up into, and the target has to be in the middle of the field. And even then, his rips are just a lot slower than most other QBs throws in this same context. "Can throw with adequate NFL velocity in ideal circumstances" means arm strength is a problem. Not an unworkable problem, but 100% as problem. He can't be late and he's very often late.

He's not consistently throwing changeups towards the sidelines because he thinks that's the apropriate touch on those passes. That's a crazy proposition.

 

[8slim]

Matt Chatham disagrees on the arm strength.

A lot of this part of the discussion strikes me as a distinction without a difference.

I have no idea if Mac’s arm strength is good, bad, or somewhere in between. But he makes a lot of throws where there is no zip on the ball whatsoever. And often that screws up the play.

An inadequate throw and is an inadequate throw. It’s year three and I’m tired of trying to distinguish why.

 

[DJnVa]

A lot of this part of the discussion strikes me as a distinction without a difference.

I have no idea if Mac’s arm strength is good, bad, or somewhere in between. But he makes a lot of throws where there is no zip on the ball whatsoever. And often that screws up the play.

An inadequate throw and is an inadequate throw. It’s year three and I’m tired of trying to distinguish why.

Oh I get it. He's just trying to draw the distinction that the issue with Jones is more his decision-making versus his arm strength. Whatever side of that you fall on still leads to the same place--he's not going to work out.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

This may also explain why receivers are “never open.”

Eh.

Mac is 30 yards away, and it's not like he's throwing at Bourne as a stationary target. Mac had to lead Bourne with his throw to hit him in stride. Best case scenario, he threw the ball right in between Bourne and Ramsey, which leaves only 4-5 yards of ground for Ramsey to cover. There isn't a QB in the world with enough zip to hit Bourne in stride before Ramsey closes that gap.

This isn't a "Mac's arm sucks" throw, it's a "Mac still doesnt know how to be a fucking NFL QB throw" throw. The image above is JUST after Ramsey had turned his hips to make sure no Patriot gets behind him. Prior to Ramsey turning his hips he had just been sitting on top of Bourne in a cover-3.

The design of this play is to put Ramsey in a position to choose a receiver, and Mac needs to make the throw accordingly. If Ramsey sticks on Bourne, Mac can throw to the outside shoulder of the other receiver (cant see who it is) with minimal risk of an INT by the safety playing centerfield. If Ramsey sags off of Bourne, he hits Bourne under Ramsey. It's why Bourne looks like he's jogging...he kind of is. He's doing the right thing - playing slower and creating separation between himself and Ramsey. He knows Ramsey is being forced to choose.

The WRs ran it well. The play design is PERFECT for a cover-3. It's Mac's execution that turned a PERFECTLY CALLED play at the EXACT RIGHT TIME into an interception. Want to know where Mac fucked up? I'll tell you.

He rushed the throw.

Again.

For the 10 millionth, billionth time.

Look at the picture. The pocket is there. He has fucking time. This play ONLY works when Ramsey has committed. But the MOMENT Ramsey turned his hips, Mac is throwing to Bourne and there isn't enough separation yet.

If Mac had just let the fucking play develop for half a second longer, it's a 15-18 yard catch and theyre in business in the redzone. But, for the gazillionth time, Mac's happy feet, rushed throw, poor footwork (hes inexplicably falling away on his throw with nobody around him), and below average arm took a perfectly called play that was executed well by EVERYONE else - the line is giving him space, the WRs are getting separation - and turned it into the Mac Jones Backbreaker Special.

I dont know what else to say anymore. After this many years in the league, he has to be able to execute the timing of these plays. There's no more excuses.

Edit - I said in here a few weeks ago that almost all of Mac's interceptions come because he only executes on his 1st or 2nd read. His picks look so bad because they ARE so bad. This is just another example.

"RAMSEY TURNED HIS HIPS THROW THE BALL TO BOURNE RIGHT NOW GRJAIFJWAOFH!!!11!!"

He isn't diagnosing plays. He either can't process at game speed or he doesn't understand the structure of plays. I'm assuming it's the former, which just leads to him guessing his reads open.

It's really, really bad.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I like Chatham and enjoy his work but Mac is lobbing beach balls even on screen passes. Whether it's footwork or rushing or a noodle arm really doesn't matter, and arguing about details like that misses the forest for the trees. He is not throwing the ball hard enough to be an effective NFL QB.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Eh.

Mac is 30 yards away, and it's not like he's throwing at Bourne as a stationary target. Mac had to lead Bourne with his throw to hit him in stride. Best case scenario, he threw the ball right in between Bourne and Ramsey, which leaves only 4-5 yards of ground for Ramsey to cover. There isn't a QB in the world with enough zip to hit Bourne in stride before Ramsey closes that gap.

To me he throws it way too late, Bourne turns his head, the ball should have been on him. The reason it wasn't is Mac turned his whole body sideways to fake a screen to Douglas... why? If he takes his drop hits the back foot, looks and drives through the throw to Bourne the ball is there at the 19/18 hitting him in stride. As it was, Bourne turns, ball isn't there, he slowly drifts upfield waiting for a bad throw that wasn't driven.

 

[tims4wins]

To me he throws it way too late, Bourne turns his head, the ball should have been on him. The reason it wasn't is Mac turned his whole body sideways to fake a screen to Douglas... why? If he takes his drop hits the back foot, looks and drives through the throw to Bourne the ball is there at the 19/18 hitting him in stride. As it was, Bourne turns, ball isn't there, he slowly drifts upfield waiting for a bad throw that wasn't driven.

Why did he fake to Pop? That's the play design.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

To me he throws it way too late, Bourne turns his head, the ball should have been on him. The reason it wasn't is Mac turned his whole body sideways to fake a screen to Douglas... why? If he takes his drop hits the back foot, looks and drives through the throw to Bourne the ball is there at the 19/18 hitting him in stride. As it was, Bourne turns, ball isn't there, he slowly drifts upfield waiting for a bad throw that wasn't driven.

If you watch the replay, theres a different view that shows Ramsey the whole time. He literally sat over Bourne, facing him, the entire play until the very end where - in the picture above - he turns his hips. If Mac had thrown it earlier, it would have been the exact same result.

 

[Toe Nash]

What's so frustrating is that on the field he's a goddamn idiot, and football processing was supposed to be one of his strengths. He thinks he's still playing for a powerhouse like Alabama where they are simply superior to their opponents and acts accordingly.

And he hasn't gotten any better at it with two full years of NFL training. Maybe his physical strength is better, I have no way to tell, but his throwing mechanics, footwork, quick decision-making and the results are all the same or worse. What is he doing from January to June?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Why did he fake to Pop? That's the play design.

Correct.

The entire play is designed to extend time, force Ramsey to choose, and then for Mac to make the right read. Play action, fake hand off, pump fake to Pop...those are designed in the play to create time for Mac. Instead, Mac inexplicably rushed the pump fake, rushed the throw off his back leg while falling away in a clean pocket.

Again, the play design was great. Everyone seemed to understand the concept of it except him.

 

[8slim]

These last dozen or so posts have been great. Thanks to everyone involved, really fascinating stuff.

 

[Cellar-Door]

If you watch the replay, theres a different view that shows Ramsey the whole time. He literally sat over Bourne, facing him, the entire play until the very end where - in the picture above - he turns his hips. If Mac had thrown it earlier, it would have been the exact same result.

Yep you're right, I found another view and I thought Ramsey went with Parker much earlier than he did but he was just offscreen.

Why did he fake to Pop? That's the play design.

I assumed it was an option that he could bypass, but maybe he's not getting that freedom, either way, I found the other angle and I was wrong on the timing.

 

[DJnVa]

and arguing about details like that misses the forest for the trees. He is not throwing the ball hard enough to be an effective NFL QB.

I disagree it misses the forest for the trees but only because Chatham is having a different argument, so maybe I shouldn't have posted it. This thread is talking about Mac. Chatham is talking about people talking about Mac and how they should do a better job of doing their job.

Both are important, but I'll yield the floor, because you are right on the overall point--he's not effective, and we're beyond the point of the reason *really* mattering. That was more a discussion for his first year or so.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Correct.

The entire play is designed to extend time, force Ramsey to choose, and then for Mac to make the right read. Play action, fake hand off, pump fake to Pop...those are designed in the play to create time for Mac. Instead, Mac inexplicably rushed the pump fake, rushed the throw off his back leg while falling away in a clean pocket.

Again, the play design was great. Everyone seemed to understand the concept of it except him.

One thing I've noticed is that when Mac is setting the protection pre-snap, he takes a REALLY long time to do so.

I just don't think he's able to keep up with the pace of the game.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I was listening to Curran's podcast and he detailed Mac's screwups and then went on to say if they are drafting in the top five they should take Harrison Jr or Alt. I would love to have either player but if we are drafting in the top five it's because Mac remains a dumpster fire during the 'easier' part of the schedule. A new QB has become a necessity.

There is definitely a chance that you don't take a QB top 5. A lot of people would say there are only 2 QBs worthy of top 5 picks, good chance the top 3 is Williams, Maye, Harrison in some order. You're sitting at 4 or 5 and can't move up..... yeah you might think about taking a tackle then seeing what's left in the early 2nd (getting up to 33 shouldn't be hard from 37 or 38 usually) out of the Penix, Sanders, McCarthy tier (or honestly do a reverse Bill maybe, see who in the 20s would rather pick in the early 30s if it gets them a mid-rounder or future pick.

 

[Van Everyman]

Correct.

The entire play is designed to extend time, force Ramsey to choose, and then for Mac to make the right read. Play action, fake hand off, pump fake to Pop...those are designed in the play to create time for Mac. Instead, Mac inexplicably rushed the pump fake, rushed the throw off his back leg while falling away in a clean pocket.

Again, the play design was great. Everyone seemed to understand the concept of it except him.

One thing I've noticed is that when Mac is setting the protection pre-snap, he takes a REALLY long time to do so.

I just don't think he's able to keep up with the pace of the game.

Hindsight is 20-20. If Ramsey dips a little more toward the inside receiver one or two steps--the way JCJ did on Hill's TD catch--that throw to Bourne is perfect. I agree with @Deathofthebambino -- Ramsey just made a great play.

As for "Mac can't keep up with the pace of the game," I disagree. What we're seeing pre-snap is at least as much Mac trying get the Mafi/Sow/Lowe/Anderson pupu platter of offensive linemen on the same page as it is his own processing speed.

I'm not sitting here on Team Mac BTW -- clearly he has made a lot of mistakes and bad reads, and indulged bad habits and mechanics. I just think this is a systemic series of issues -- OL protection/health/experience, receiver separation, a new scheme ... and yes, the impact all that has had on things like Mac's reads, mechanics, internal clock, etc. I just don't think any of us, no matter how much we know football, can conclusively say otherwise.

 

[Toe Nash]

There is definitely a chance that you don't take a QB top 5. A lot of people would say there are only 2 QBs worthy of top 5 picks, good chance the top 3 is Williams, Maye, Harrison in some order. You're sitting at 4 or 5 and can't move up..... yeah you might think about taking a tackle then seeing what's left in the early 2nd (getting up to 33 shouldn't be hard from 37 or 38 usually) out of the Penix, Sanders, McCarthy tier (or honestly do a reverse Bill maybe, see who in the 20s would rather pick in the early 30s if it gets them a mid-rounder or future pick.

When I first started thinking about this, I definitely thought it was a no-brainer to take Maye or Williams if they are there, but I wonder if there is more value to trading down to a team that really wants one of them bad, getting other good / potentially great players and future picks, and solving the QB problem later (with a better team around that QB).

It feels like it gives you more assets and more options given they have a lot of cap space if they can trade down and get something like the Lance deal or better, and you still have Mac for the next two years if you want him. If the offense is significantly better at the start of Mac's 5th year then it would be easier to add a different QB in trade or FA, or develop a prospect under Mac, and still be competitive. If you take a QB and he's not great then you're still in purgatory and you might still be so bad that you don't really know what you have for a bit.

Of course this all depends on what you think of the QBs in question. If you like them and you're right then you take them and don't worry too much about it as long as you can field an offensive line that doesn't get them killed.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

If you watch the replay, theres a different view that shows Ramsey the whole time. He literally sat over Bourne, facing him, the entire play until the very end where - in the picture above - he turns his hips. If Mac had thrown it earlier, it would have been the exact same result.

I actually don't like the route design at all, with respect to Parker and Bourne. If you go back to the screen shot upthread, Mac throws the pump fake to the flat, which takes the CB on that side and forced him to come up.

That's the good part. But then you have Parker and Bourne basically running stride for stride, until Parker cuts inside about 15-20 yards downfield. As a result, you have the underneath backer covering the lane on either receiver, and you have two defensive backs covering 2 receivers with 10-12 yards of separation between receivers. Two defensive backs with so little ground that far downfield can easily cover two receivers there. The reality is nobody is open, so Mac shouldn't have thrown it at all, or thrown it where basically nobody could catch it (or like you said, held it longer and let it develop more).

But look at the screen shot, if Parker squares off that route at the 20 and digs to the middle, he's dragging at least one defender and the backer with him, and now you've got Bourne 1on1 with Ramsey at worst. Or alternatively, and my preference, you have Parker run the same route, and have Bourne run a curl after the pump fakes baits the corner. That's where Mac hits the pump fake and throws it quick to a spot around the 20, which is way further away from where Ramsey could make a play, and now you have Bourne with some space to make a play (basically catching the ball right where the screen shot above is taken). Having a post from Parker and a go from Bourne just means multiple defenders in close proximity. Ultimately, Mac's only real option was to check back down to Pop, but he made a terrible decision.

 

[BigJimEd]

Mac did say he was late on the throw/

“I knew the coverage, I knew everything,” Jones said. “I just made a bad throw, really. Late.

“You can’t do that as a quarterback,” he said. “Just throw it out of bounds or take the checkdown and move on.”

 

[8slim]

Mac did say he was late on the throw/

Well, what does he know anyway?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Mac did say he was late on the throw/

Well, what does he know anyway?

That concerns me more. Watch the replay yourself from over Ramseys shoulder. After a play action and pump fake, if he thinks he should have thrown it immediately, then he's learned fucking nothing.

 

[Cellar-Door]

That concerns me more. Watch the replay yourself from over Ramseys shoulder. After a play action and pump fake, if he thinks he should have thrown it immediately, then he's learned fucking nothing.

I would assume he means what I thought (though now I think Ramsey gets there to break it up anyway) that he should have just skipped the fake and just ripped it as soon as his back foot hit, but yeah... seeing the other angle that's still a dangerous throw against a top corner (especially for a guy without a canon). The second part of his answer is probably the right one... check it down or throw it away.

When I first started thinking about this, I definitely thought it was a no-brainer to take Maye or Williams if they are there, but I wonder if there is more value to trading down to a team that really wants one of them bad, getting other good / potentially great players and future picks, and solving the QB problem later (with a better team around that QB).

It feels like it gives you more assets and more options given they have a lot of cap space if they can trade down and get something like the Lance deal or better, and you still have Mac for the next two years if you want him. If the offense is significantly better at the start of Mac's 5th year then it would be easier to add a different QB in trade or FA, or develop a prospect under Mac, and still be competitive. If you take a QB and he's not great then you're still in purgatory and you might still be so bad that you don't really know what you have for a bit.

Of course this all depends on what you think of the QBs in question. If you like them and you're right then you take them and don't worry too much about it as long as you can field an offensive line that doesn't get them killed.

Yeah depends on what you think about the QBs, but if you think Williams and Maye are franchise guys you have to take them. It's so hard to get a franchise guy you have to grab one if you can. Only way I could see it is if they don't love the guy there and they get a huge deal from a team they expect to be bad even with the rookie QB... like the Bears deal, I'd take that... good player ton of picks, and from a team that was going to be picking top 10 next year (looking like top 2 now). Tough to find those though.

 

[8slim]

That concerns me more. Watch the replay yourself from over Ramseys shoulder. After a play action and pump fake, if he thinks he should have thrown it immediately, then he's learned fucking nothing.

Everything concerns me about Mac. He’s a lousy QB. Sometimes we just need to say the obvious.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

The pick was a bad one, but also one we see QBs all over the league make. Even really good ones. It sucks because it took points off the board, but this is why it’s great to have the lead in the NFL. Players make mistakes when they feel they have to make something happen. Standing alone, it’s not that relevant. It was a good play by a great defender on a poor decision. Happens multiple times every weekend. So I am not sure going Zapruder on the play is too helpful.

The problem is that it does not stand alone. It’s consistent with Mac’s body of work, and I think we have enough evidence to say he has more propensity to do this than many other QBs.

 

[Jinhocho]

The pick was a bad one, but also one we see QBs all over the league make. Even really good ones. It sucks because it took points off the board, but this is why it’s great to have the lead in the NFL. Players make mistakes when they feel they have to make something happen. Standing alone, it’s not that relevant. It was a good play by a great defender on a poor decision. Happens multiple times every weekend. So I am not sure going Zapruder on the play is too helpful.

The problem is that it does not stand alone. It’s consistent with Mac’s body of work, and I think we have enough evidence to say he has more propensity to do this than many other QBs.

I think the bigger problem is that he has no big play Potential, has to be a game manager, and is basically someone if he plays the game really smart and to the best of his physical abilities can get you into the playoffs with a decent team around him. If his head skill is 30% less than what we thought when we drafted him and I would argue it is probably that bad or more then he has no chance to really be even Chad Pennington. Maybe a poor man's Ryan tannehill?

I was very optimistic about this pick, but man it has not worked out the way I hoped.