The Bomb: Brady & Tyms Beautiful Connection
- Thread starter riboflav
- Start date
Yes, that's true. And if there weren't secondary indicators that he'll be successful I wouldn't be so excited.Shelterdog said:
But being named practice player of the week means he caught someones eye that matters. That Brady who is paranoid about turnovers threw into double or triple coverage to him says something. That he showed what he did in preseason matters (even against 2nd or 3rd teamers).
The professionals are noticing him... that excites me more than what my eyes are seeing.
I'm pretty confident in saying Tyms is the only WR on the roster with the athleticism, size and strong hands required to pull off that catch. I have no clue if he's a good WR yet, can't rate his route running skills or his overall understanding of the offense, but from everything I've seen he's the total package physically as an outside receiver. Had there been any other receiver in that situation, the pass likely gets broken up/picked off, and we're all harping on Brady about throwing it into triple coverage. Sometimes, it's nice to have a guy you can somewhat trust to come up with the ball when you give him a shot in deep coverage.
The jury is still out on Tyms, he obviously could flame out, but he was impressive in preseason, was added to the roster after his suspension ended, and basically took the spot of a guy with almost two years' worth of experience in the system in Thompkins. The coaching staff obviously sees something in him, and Brady targeted him deep in tight coverage twice yesterday, which indicates he's comfortable in Tyms' ability to at least compete for the ball and be in the right spot. It's early, it's only a start, but it's been very encouraging.
The jury is still out on Tyms, he obviously could flame out, but he was impressive in preseason, was added to the roster after his suspension ended, and basically took the spot of a guy with almost two years' worth of experience in the system in Thompkins. The coaching staff obviously sees something in him, and Brady targeted him deep in tight coverage twice yesterday, which indicates he's comfortable in Tyms' ability to at least compete for the ball and be in the right spot. It's early, it's only a start, but it's been very encouraging.
Practice player of the week means less than nothing. The players who wore black jerseys last week: Tyms, Logan Ryan (2 snaps), Tavon Wilson (10), Malcolm Butler (DNP), Chris Barker, Jake Bequette, Josh Boyce, Jonas Gray (last four all on the practice squad). It's a way to give some recognition to players at the back end of the roster or the practice squad.RetractableRoof said:
Well, it's saying he's a hard worker, something BB added to with his quote about how no one has worked harder.
Does that mean he'll develop route running abilities that will make him more than a 4th or 5th WR? Nope...but physical skills and hard work and seemingly excellent hands are a really good starting point.
Does that mean he'll develop route running abilities that will make him more than a 4th or 5th WR? Nope...but physical skills and hard work and seemingly excellent hands are a really good starting point.
Earning a Practice/Scout Team Player of the Week selection is one of the greatest honors that can be bestowed upon a player at any level.
<--------Won Scout Team Player of the Week as a senior for running Bowdoin's offense against our starting defense.
<--------Won Scout Team Player of the Week as a senior for running Bowdoin's offense against our starting defense.
Could the 49ers be a model for how the Patriots could use their receiver depth the rest of the year?
Stevie Johnson (Amendola) Veteran in a reduced role but reliable in 3 WR sets 20 snaps/game.
Brandon Lloyd (Tyms) Deep threat with limited role making acrobatic catches of bombs 10-20 snaps/game.
Bruce Ellinton (Dobson) Rookie learning the system 10 snaps/game.
Stevie Johnson (Amendola) Veteran in a reduced role but reliable in 3 WR sets 20 snaps/game.
Brandon Lloyd (Tyms) Deep threat with limited role making acrobatic catches of bombs 10-20 snaps/game.
Bruce Ellinton (Dobson) Rookie learning the system 10 snaps/game.
I am glad they made the play and that was a great catch. But as mentioned Brady overthrew him earlier and we've seen him overthrow guys who had separation earlier in the season and in the previous few years. Maybe that was by design but until Brady throws an accurate-enough deep ball semi-consistently I'm skeptical that having Tyms is going to change their deep game.
That doesn't mean that Tyms can't be a good addition or that the offense can't be good but I just don't see us suddenly start bombing down the field.
That doesn't mean that Tyms can't be a good addition or that the offense can't be good but I just don't see us suddenly start bombing down the field.
It doesn't have to change their deep game. All it has to do is change the defenses they face. If he goes down field enough and takes both a Corner and a Safety with him, then the rest of the offense is in a better place. He (or someone in his role) only needs to catch enough to keep the defenses honest. I personally think he is more than a talented decoy, but if all he is is a decoy that forces a coverage effort there will be more room for Gronk, Julian, and Wright. [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Profit![/SIZE]Toe Nash said:
I was thinking about this last night... A 12 personnel package with Vereen as the back, Gronk, Julian, Wright, and Tyms could leave a defense in a serious pickle. I know there are a lot of reasons why that wouldn't be a primary package (current state of pass blocking being the main)... but it could be a lot of fun to watch.
Very good post, and I really agree.RetractableRoof said:
Not many teams are lucky enough to have a Dez Bryant/Calvin Johnson(/Randy Moss) type who has the size, strength, and speed to beat any DB on any route. Everyone else has to find mismatches and exploit what the defense gives you. For a team that in recent memory was forced to use Matthew Slater and Tiquan Underwood as deep threats, Tyms looks like an upgrade. Hell, Buffalo's coverage of him excited me
Sorry, posting from iPhone is tough.
Right, and I'm skeptical this will happen until Brady gets more consistent, if he ever does. It's not like they just let Edelman or anyone run free over the top now, but the defense tends to cheat towards the mid routes because they know Brady is more accurate there. I don't think one nice pass changes things, nor has the addition of a career practice squad guy made defenses scheme differently.RetractableRoof said:
We will see if he continues as a deep threat, but I think we're far from the point where he's changing opposing defenses.
LaFell did have a 56-yard touchdown on a deep sideline route. He has 3 catches of 35+ yards already; no Pats receiver has had more than 3 such plays in a season since 2011. The Tyms play was more highlight-worthy, but LaFell is showing that he can burn defenses if they don't respect him.nothumb said:
One caveat on that SD, one of those 35+ catches was a 4 yard slant against KC that he broke the distance. But I do agree with your overall point.
His ability to break tackles from CBs and turn that into huge gains is something a deep safety is going to have to worry about, too.Mark Schofield said:
Ok, but before that first catch of his - he had zero catches, and yet drew a corner & safety and had a late arriving 3rd db on the scene. So the defense in this case already respected his skills (or maybe the route?). Without Brady hitting a bunch of them to show consistency. It has already worked once with no prior history by "a career practice squad guy". Do you actually believe that the Jets on Thursday are going to decide that since it is only a career practice squad guy, there is no need to cover him if he runs a deep route?Toe Nash said:
I'm not saying this guy is the second coming of player X. I think he has the athletic skills of some pretty big name receivers, and we haven't his combination of RAW skills and talent in a long time. I think he has a long, long long way to go before we start putting things in the take for granted basket... but by the same token I am excited by this guy. I've taken his 1 catch with a few grains of salt... but there is no reason in my eyes to not be excited. I won't start working on his hall of fame plaque yet. However, IF this guy has the football IQ to learn the route tree as he needs to, and IF he has the work ethic to convince Brady he is going to be where he is expected to be during a particular sequence of reads, then I think we have a hell of a player given his physical gifts. And IF both of those "IF's" come to pass, then he'll be a game changer the Pats haven't had since Moss pouted his way out of town.
I'm going to check out of this thread for a while... I feel like my excitement is being perceived or taken as unrealistic expectations - and the fact is I have NO expectations, but do admit to a bit of a giggly excitement when I see him on the field.
I'm with you RetractableRoof. I think the naysayers are going overboard here. No one is saying he's going to be one of the best receivers in the league. But the fact of the matter is, yeah, it's only one catch. But it's one more catch of that type than anyone else on the roster. So still a good sign.
Brady's deep ball is not what it used to be. But neither is Peyton Manning's. If you think Brady's deep ball is better than Geno Smith's or Michael Vick's circa 2014, then having a WR that can actually get open deep and catch what Brady throws him will indeed cause opposing defenses to pay attention. Whether Tyms will be that guy is still TBD, but Brady's deep ball looked a lot better the past 2 games once he was given time to throw.Toe Nash said:
I lied: this whole "career practice squad player" thing stuck in my craw...
I think at times it is awful easy to look at the realities of fringe NFL players and simply dismiss their chances. That player faces a monstrous challenge swimming upstream to catching a teams eye, hopefully getting drafted or as an undrafted player getting a training camp invite, to making a practice squad, to making the roster, to making the active list, to getting on the field, to getting a number of plays, to being a dependable role player, to ... for those that win the Outland or Heisman life is often grand. For those that don't the odds are heavily stacked against them.
Anyone that doesn't get drafted is on the wrong side of some heavy statistical numbers. The media creates notoriety for the last player drafted because their odds of success are so long. But that doesn't mean they aren't often extra-ordinary athletes. Which of us would like the physical talents of NFL bust Tebow? I'd line up in that queue. When you look at the combine numbers Tyms had blow away numbers at his position, so he really is a RAW talent - unlike that D2 corner back who is a step slow coming out of the draft and hoping he can stick around for a couple of paychecks or get transitioned to safety or something. Because the odds are long doesn't mean we shouldn't root for the underdog - as long as we don't have expectations that leave us disappointed needlessly.
Having said that all teams have a player or two that buck the odds. Some more than others. Movies are made of those players. They don't often make movies about the middle of the pack player that never stands out. This particular coach seems to take a particular delight in seeing something that others don't - OR perhaps it is because if he identifies a player as special and decides to invest in them. How many thought we would get anything out of Stephen Neal? He was a wrestler - that's it. BB invested multiple teaching years in him for some reason. This board has a thread right now about a rugby star and the potential conversion - yet we already have our own in Ebner. He may be maxxed out at what he is, but he may still grow into more - who knows. We have a slot receiver who has been dismissed for years as a career nothing but might be our most valuable receiver if you weigh in the odds of Gronk slamming his head into a brick wall or three. BB seems to take a particular delight in finding a place for special athletes or perhaps it is those with a special fire. If you have both so much the better. Being named practice player of the week indicates SOME fire at least.
I looked at the roster for the 49ers WR position. Why was this athlete on the practice squad for the 49ers in 2012? Here are the names: Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn, Jr., Chad Hall, A. J. Jenkins (#1 pick), and some guy named Randy Moss. What are the odds that a player compared to Randy Moss physically is going to beat out HOF WR Randy Moss on a super bowl contending roster? There is no shame in not making that roster and being on the Practice Squad there that year. Now he did spend some time in Cleveland and Miami on their practice squads. But spending parts of 2 years on a practice squad for a player with little formal football training isn't out of the ordinary - some would argue it is typical. If he was a destined to be a career practice squad player, I doubt that BB would have brought him in. He risked losing Thompkins to play a two week shell game knowing he had Tyms coming off suspension. When you look at his history, his story, he had a long way to go to make the NFL... he is walking (running?) that path.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]tl;dr: It's too easy to look at the odds and dismiss him. [/SIZE]I think I'm going to keep being excited for him, and excited at his potential... life is more fun this way.
I think at times it is awful easy to look at the realities of fringe NFL players and simply dismiss their chances. That player faces a monstrous challenge swimming upstream to catching a teams eye, hopefully getting drafted or as an undrafted player getting a training camp invite, to making a practice squad, to making the roster, to making the active list, to getting on the field, to getting a number of plays, to being a dependable role player, to ... for those that win the Outland or Heisman life is often grand. For those that don't the odds are heavily stacked against them.
Anyone that doesn't get drafted is on the wrong side of some heavy statistical numbers. The media creates notoriety for the last player drafted because their odds of success are so long. But that doesn't mean they aren't often extra-ordinary athletes. Which of us would like the physical talents of NFL bust Tebow? I'd line up in that queue. When you look at the combine numbers Tyms had blow away numbers at his position, so he really is a RAW talent - unlike that D2 corner back who is a step slow coming out of the draft and hoping he can stick around for a couple of paychecks or get transitioned to safety or something. Because the odds are long doesn't mean we shouldn't root for the underdog - as long as we don't have expectations that leave us disappointed needlessly.
Having said that all teams have a player or two that buck the odds. Some more than others. Movies are made of those players. They don't often make movies about the middle of the pack player that never stands out. This particular coach seems to take a particular delight in seeing something that others don't - OR perhaps it is because if he identifies a player as special and decides to invest in them. How many thought we would get anything out of Stephen Neal? He was a wrestler - that's it. BB invested multiple teaching years in him for some reason. This board has a thread right now about a rugby star and the potential conversion - yet we already have our own in Ebner. He may be maxxed out at what he is, but he may still grow into more - who knows. We have a slot receiver who has been dismissed for years as a career nothing but might be our most valuable receiver if you weigh in the odds of Gronk slamming his head into a brick wall or three. BB seems to take a particular delight in finding a place for special athletes or perhaps it is those with a special fire. If you have both so much the better. Being named practice player of the week indicates SOME fire at least.
I looked at the roster for the 49ers WR position. Why was this athlete on the practice squad for the 49ers in 2012? Here are the names: Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn, Jr., Chad Hall, A. J. Jenkins (#1 pick), and some guy named Randy Moss. What are the odds that a player compared to Randy Moss physically is going to beat out HOF WR Randy Moss on a super bowl contending roster? There is no shame in not making that roster and being on the Practice Squad there that year. Now he did spend some time in Cleveland and Miami on their practice squads. But spending parts of 2 years on a practice squad for a player with little formal football training isn't out of the ordinary - some would argue it is typical. If he was a destined to be a career practice squad player, I doubt that BB would have brought him in. He risked losing Thompkins to play a two week shell game knowing he had Tyms coming off suspension. When you look at his history, his story, he had a long way to go to make the NFL... he is walking (running?) that path.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]tl;dr: It's too easy to look at the odds and dismiss him. [/SIZE]I think I'm going to keep being excited for him, and excited at his potential... life is more fun this way.
Don't forget that Victor Cruz was a UDFA who pretty much sat for a whole season with the Giants before breaking out in 2011. Miles Austin was a UDFA who took almost three seasons with the Cowboys to turn into a legitimate weapon. So guys like this can become high-quality NFL players.
A guy like Tyms has the athleticism and talent to be a player in the NFL. But it's going to take some time with this offense to see if he can make it happen.
A guy like Tyms has the athleticism and talent to be a player in the NFL. But it's going to take some time with this offense to see if he can make it happen.
We have a "Nobody works harder than Danny" quote re: Amendola in last night's PC. I chuckled. He's said the exact same quote about Tim Wright like a week ago.Stitch01 said: