TB Suspension: Cheater free to play again
- Thread starter IdiotKicker
- Start date
Doubtful. The parts about how the PA should have negotiated a different arbitration process if it were that important to them indicates a narrow application.
This is stupid. There's a reason why no team ever sits their quarterback for the first quarter of the season and the team very well might need Brady to go 2-2 or 3-1.
It doesn't automatically sink the season but its not good in any way, shape, or form.
You forgot the biggest one - destroying the cell phone (or letting him do it).
They pretty much always did.
It's a lousy CBA. It was a lousy arbitrator. It's an extremely difficult legal standard to meet. Destroying a cell phone actually does matter to anyone who does this for a living and takes their obligations seriously, especially the old guys in robes who don't take kindly to that stuff. And they didn't have an appellate attorney handle the appeal. The last one might have made a difference if it went a different way, but given all of the others, probably not.
It's over. This isn't the sort of thing that warrants en banc or certiorari review. Stop wasting the Courts' time and suck less as a union.
Please. In addition to what Marciano said above about practical considerations, the judges almost certainly have pre-existing thoughts on how labor agreements in general, and arbitration agreements in particular, should be interpreted. If the facts of a given case can be maneuvered in such a way to allow that pre-existing understanding to work, then they are basically done. As stated above, this basically came down (for the two judges who form the majority) to the judges saying "Well, contracts have consequences, and there's nothing here that indicates that the plain language of the agreement both parties signed shouldn't be enforceable. Commissioner gets to do and say whatever he wants; sucks for you, but there you go."
And that's why it won't get heard before the Supreme Court. It's less an issue of legal interpretation and more a cautionary tale in drafting better contracts.
And that's also why i don't think Kessler's ho-hum performance in the hearing mattered, in the end. He could have been Clarence Darrow up there but the majority had already made up its mind, probably the second they finished reviewing their clerks' summary of the file.
In essence, the bullshit aspect of all this doesn't matter, because there's no relevant anti-bullshit clause in the CBA. Whoops.
Can't wait for the 30 for 30 episode. Maybe SOSH will get a shout out. Hopefully for the expert legal thread and not the 38,000+ post monstrosity.
This how you get laid on Reddit? Must be more fun to get laid in the Bernie Sanders' campaign.
It is not the ideal outcome, but there are some positives. I hate to use the line "father time is undefeated" but Brady is nearing an age when we can expect some drop off in his performance along with the potential of him getting hurt a lot higher now than it was 15 years ago. They are high on Jimmy G. Let's see what he can do. It is not impossible for him to play every well ....in fact with them going into the regular season as the known starter, he may indeed turn some heads. Brady certainly did when he took over for Bledsoe.
This is where I'm at -- and I'm not sure it was a ho hum performance at all. I thought he had an uphill battle from the jump and my biggest concern was that he needed to win twice. If he had lost in the district court, it likely would have been affirmed and Brady might not have even gotten a stay. That he won in the district court and got a vote in the court of appeals over a fucking CBA that lets the fox guard the henhouse is pretty good.
Darren Rovell ESPN Senior Writer
$1,882,352: What a four-game suspension would have cost Brady last year $235,294: What a four-game suspension would cost Brady this year
$1,882,352: What a four-game suspension would have cost Brady last year $235,294: What a four-game suspension would cost Brady this year
I wonder if this changes their draft strategy to really focus on a RB with one of their early picks.
With the kick in the face the NFLPA received today you have to wonder what the next CBA negotiations are going to be like. Having spent all this money, time, and effort finally getting this type of decision out of the courts it's hard to see the NFL giving up this power without tremendous inducement.
No. Michael Irvin was suspended in the '96 season for 5 games. Pretty sure LT got suspended as well.
I know where you are coming from -- even when the Pats lose, they win. Big reason everyone hates them.
This is indisputable: if you tried to trade Jimmy G. a few weeks ago, you'd get nothing resembling what the Rams and Eagles recently gave up. Not even close. Jimmy G is judged as a pro, and he has no track record as a pro. Plus, it's the shiny new thing. Yet he could very well be better than who is picked 1 and 2 Thursday night.
Scotty Mitchell aside -- and Matt Cassel aside -- if he performs well in the first 4 (hopefully, no more), that will get him some cred. And maybe get the Pats some meaningful comp.
That's where this comes down to me. If you want a fair, unbiased arbitrator for moments when Goodell decides to suspend a player for running funny, get it put into the next CBA.
Here's a "quotation of quotations" from one Charles A. Beard, and I think it applies here:
All the lessons of history in four sentences: Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power. The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small. The bee fertilizes the flower it robs. When it is dark enough, you can see the stars.
Some of the earlier postings in this thread already touch on this. I do think that Goodell and friends are going to be destroyed over this, as sooner or later it will happen that NFL e-mails will be hacked and the real story will emerge over why Goodell/Kensil/Pash pursued this matter at all. I do think that justice often takes time, and perhaps there will be something in this matter that will drive Brady's first-born son to do great things for the Patriots in about fifteen years. Regarding the bee fertilizing the flower, the comments about seeing what Jimmy G's got in the tank come to mind. And I would like to imagine the stars aligning for the upcoming Super Bowl.
In the interim, I look forward to reading Katzmann's dissent, learning how many other judges go along with Katzmann as regards rehearing en banc, and seeing if Berman has any obiter dicta to offer when following the orders given him to record the verdict. Maybe most of all, I'm looking forward to Jonathan Kraft, at the moment that is right for him, putting the dagger into the League office - this won't happen while Papa is still running the show, but it will happen.
Beyond all that, WTF is wrong with the world when in the middle of Passover the forces of slavery get a win...
EDIT: Thanks to BroodsSexton Post #104 for providing Katzmann's dissent. That post was submitted as I was drafting my own.
All the lessons of history in four sentences: Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power. The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small. The bee fertilizes the flower it robs. When it is dark enough, you can see the stars.
Some of the earlier postings in this thread already touch on this. I do think that Goodell and friends are going to be destroyed over this, as sooner or later it will happen that NFL e-mails will be hacked and the real story will emerge over why Goodell/Kensil/Pash pursued this matter at all. I do think that justice often takes time, and perhaps there will be something in this matter that will drive Brady's first-born son to do great things for the Patriots in about fifteen years. Regarding the bee fertilizing the flower, the comments about seeing what Jimmy G's got in the tank come to mind. And I would like to imagine the stars aligning for the upcoming Super Bowl.
In the interim, I look forward to reading Katzmann's dissent, learning how many other judges go along with Katzmann as regards rehearing en banc, and seeing if Berman has any obiter dicta to offer when following the orders given him to record the verdict. Maybe most of all, I'm looking forward to Jonathan Kraft, at the moment that is right for him, putting the dagger into the League office - this won't happen while Papa is still running the show, but it will happen.
Beyond all that, WTF is wrong with the world when in the middle of Passover the forces of slavery get a win...
EDIT: Thanks to BroodsSexton Post #104 for providing Katzmann's dissent. That post was submitted as I was drafting my own.
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I'm sure Brady isn't sweating 1.6 million at this point. Might take some of the sting out of it.Darren Rovell ESPN Senior Writer
$1,882,352: What a four-game suspension would have cost Brady last year $235,294: What a four-game suspension would cost Brady this year
thanks.. I was certain Ray Lewis was suspended, but Google showed otherwise.. and I forgot about Irvin.
Agreed. The NFLPA shouldn't agree to any deal with Goodell having unlimited powers. The NFLPA should go to the wall for that to be removed even if it led to a work stoppage.
Parker goes on about how the equipment violation doesn't apply, yet isn't that exactly what the NFL applied in 2009 when the Jets staff tampered with footballs? The whole thing makes very little sense to me, as I do not think a full reading of the CBA lends itself to Goodell being granted this much power and I also see this as an equipment violation.
That's just the legal aspect, there's still the whole actual injustice of not only being punished for something that likely never occurred, but being WAYYY overpunished even if it had.
This entire thing has been fucking stupid. At least the good news is it's over and maybe we will finally hear from Brady. I know he won't, but I'd love for him to just go apeshit.
That's just the legal aspect, there's still the whole actual injustice of not only being punished for something that likely never occurred, but being WAYYY overpunished even if it had.
This entire thing has been fucking stupid. At least the good news is it's over and maybe we will finally hear from Brady. I know he won't, but I'd love for him to just go apeshit.
Perhaps -- just after the NFL returns the Pats first rounder for Thursday night.
Ian Gunn @IanPGunn 47s47 seconds ago
This decision has to be so frustrating for NFLPA/Brady. Here's CA2 misunderstanding another argument....
I not only agree with this, but I can say that it's almost certainly what the NFLPA will do. (And remember, this is the NFLPA's case.)
Edit: I should add that any talk of a player "strike" over this is silly.
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They already did agree to it. This is the first time they've actually seen it's application.
The whole collectively-bargained aspect is why the ruling was held up in appeals. Goodell can basically suspend someone for the clothes they wear if he feels it's detrimental to the league. The league and the players agreed to those terms.
There's a chance this happens. That is, of course, a far cry from "its best for the long-term" which is what the original post (not yours) argued and the most likely outcome is Jimmy G pretty much sucks in those four games.
The original post also said the Pats don't need Brady to go 3-1 or 2-2. Honestly, if I could sign up for 1-3 with a division win right now I would. Team could go 2-2 or 3-1....but going 0-4 while burning three home games and all but killing the season is in play.
More interesting if your a team in the league why not just keeping firing at the Pats ? Could the Colts and the rest of the league gotten any more out of this? Nope. And as the Court affirmed as long as you frame the story right for the Commish the punishment is good to go.
If it were that simple and clear-cut, all four judges who heard the case would have agreed. But Katzmann and Berman clearly thought otherwise.
You can probably stop linking the guy who's spamming Twitter despite graduating from law school two years ago.
NOTE: I am not a lawyer. The extent of my experience is limited to Mock Trials in high-school.
Nevertheless, both the ruling and dissent seem pretty clear cut to me. The majority ruling derives its judgement from a narrow interpretation of labor arbitration (e.g. "the minimum legal standard"), whereas the dissenting judge has a broader interpretation. All the complaints about the "facts" of this case are simply not considered by the majority:
On the other hand, Katzmann's dissent indicates that the court should take a more active role in assessing the validity of an arbitration:
As Marciano and others, all more knowledgeable than I, have noted: when judges are approaching this issue from a particular judicial stance, no degree of argumentation may matter.
EDIT: As a result, going in circles over whether "Brady cheated!" or any facts of this case is unrelated to the decisions from these judges. Of course, the vast majority of media lacks the intellectual capacity to understand this point.
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I agree there are SOME positives.
Knowing what we have in Jimmy is useful.
Possibly increasing Jimmy's trade value is helpful.
If you had to choose 4 games for Brady to be out, you would probably choose the first four. At least, I would.
All that said, that a model player like Tom Brady is being made to be a villain is a joke. I understand opposing fans high fiving over Brady being suspended or whooping it up over missing Tom. Still, it's annoying to think of all that happiness, and even more so, the happiness among all the dickheads in the NFL offices.
PS: The notion that RG is going to let go of the noose is laughable. He has shown no signs of any willingness to do that and this whole thing was very likely an attempt to make up for the perceived light sentence in SpyGate. Lightening now for really no reason would be to give back his hard fought gains.
It will be removed, even the owners want it removed at this point likely. However, that won't stop them from claiming it's some big "concession" they are making in exchange for a smaller piece of the pie or some such.
John Riley @jriley8832 2m2 minutes ago
Biting Brady dissent from CJ Katzmann: "A process designed to ensure fairness to all players has been used unfairly against one player."
Biting Brady dissent from CJ Katzmann: "A process designed to ensure fairness to all players has been used unfairly against one player."
This is a weird thing to wake up to 16 months after the initial issue.
NFL continues to suck.
As an aside, the narrative towards Tom has shifted SO much from last April that this won't affect him as much as it did before. Surprisingly, I found that a LOT of haters came around and the blame shifted to the league.
NFL continues to suck.
As an aside, the narrative towards Tom has shifted SO much from last April that this won't affect him as much as it did before. Surprisingly, I found that a LOT of haters came around and the blame shifted to the league.
It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Chin, in particular, came into the argument with his mind made up based on an incorrect understanding of the facts. That's a strong statement about a Second Circuit judge; I think the record supports it. Ultimately, that is probably partially about bad media coverage coloring his opinion and partially about Kessler not doing a good enough job boiling down the issues so that Chin (and his clerks, perhaps) could understand the record.
As DC noted, the panel matters a huge amount and this panel was a very good one for NFL.
I do suspect the NFLPA will revisit this issue by or before the next CBA; players who are paying attention are going to be asking them why they agreed to this deal starting right about...now.
As DC noted, the panel matters a huge amount and this panel was a very good one for NFL.
I do suspect the NFLPA will revisit this issue by or before the next CBA; players who are paying attention are going to be asking them why they agreed to this deal starting right about...now.