Steven Wright- ace up the sleeve... Amiright?!?!?

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Looking very unlikely that he'll be back this season to help. Probably most optimistic outlook will be for him to sneak onto the playoff roster and function as an emergency extra innings eating/blowout pitcher....
....for long term though I still think the Sox should figure him as a member of the starting rotation for next season (and despite the freak ((and unnecessary)) injury), they should assume a 200 inning back end guy with some great stretches and some terrible stretches. Very valuable. Very Wakefield.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Thee upshot is one more season of squirrel pics on SoSH.

Because now Buchholz's 2017 option will be picked up for sure.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Let's see him pitch like his last three starts first, bub.
Do you mean Buchholz?

He doesn't need to do anything, before picking up that option becomes a no-brainer, with Wright's shoulder an injury concern.

Frankly, given how bad every one of the high-minors fallback options did this year, Buchholz was likely to return next season anyway, even before this news.

That Clay accepted his demotion to the pen, worked hard with Bannister to revamp his delivery and pitching mentality, and then achieved increased success while getting bounced around between the pen and the rotation only argues in favor of picking up the option.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Because now Buchholz's 2017 option will be picked up for sure.
The likelihood has increased but I don't think it is a sure thing. Not yet. An organization could do a lot worse than go into a season with Brian Johnson as the 6th starter. Unlike Buchholz, Johnson doesn't cost 13.5 million next year.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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This is not a bad idea, but I have an even better one! Since he can't pitch anymore, we don't want Wright to take up a valuable roster spot. While I hate to lose Wright's prowess on the basepaths, there is an obvious solution, one that would appeal to a deep thinker like John Farrell. When he isn't starting, R.Porcello should take over as the Red Sox's primary pinch runner. Similar to Wright, Porcello probably hasn't run the bases since high school and so he is an ideal candidate for this role. If Porcello gets hurt diving into a base, no problem, that's just bad luck, the Red Sox have plenty of other pinch running options including David Price.
You're hilarious. Do you do stand up?
 

Humphrey

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I know it's woulda coulda shoulda but if I sent a pitcher out there to run, I'd goddamn sure instruct him to reach for a base with his non-throwing arm. Not so much for shoulder injuries as finger/hand stuff.
 

Curt S Loew

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This is not a bad idea, but I have an even better one! Since he can't pitch anymore, we don't want Wright to take up a valuable roster spot. While I hate to lose Wright's prowess on the basepaths, there is an obvious solution, one that would appeal to a deep thinker like John Farrell. When he isn't starting, R.Porcello should take over as the Red Sox's primary pinch runner. Similar to Wright, Porcello probably hasn't run the bases since high school and so he is an ideal candidate for this role. If Porcello gets hurt diving into a base, no problem, that's just bad luck, the Red Sox have plenty of other pinch running options including David Price.
You needed to post this here? Really? Wait, don't answer.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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The likelihood has increased but I don't think it is a sure thing. Not yet. An organization could do a lot worse than go into a season with Brian Johnson as the 6th starter. Unlike Buchholz, Johnson doesn't cost 13.5 million next year.
With Papi and Koji coming off the books, the Sox have the money to both extend Bogaerts at Boras' market rates as well as pay the significant arbitration-eligible raises due Bradley and Pomeranz, without adding salary. Which makes the cost of Clay's option basically immaterial.

And if they don't bring him back, then what do they do about building depth among the starting staff? Owens, Elias, O'Sullivan, and Johnson have proven nothing positive at the MLB level. Haley has proven less than nothing, even if he gets added to the 40-man roster. Joe Kelly has proven one thing: that you don't want to go into a season counting on him in your rotation.

The farm system has been depleted by promotions and trades already, with no valuable surplus crops that are anywhere close to ripening. So trading for a #6 starter seems wasteful of the Red Sox resources, and signing a free agent from the upcoming awful class of starters would be even worse.

The obvious solution is to pick up the option for Clay for the same short money you gave him this season, since he's proven successful in the AL East sometimes, and also that he can bounce around successfully between the bullpen and the rotation.

Because sometimes is better than never. And especially considering Wright's two-year history of weird season-ending injuries and the volatile nature of the knuckler's effectiveness itself, having a #6 pitcher able to throw like a #3 sometimes is a very fine thing.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Given the questions surrounding his shoulder and also the question of whether his first half was the aberration rather than the second half (pre and post shoulder injury), is Wright really a shoo-in for the 2017 rotation? I think he goes right back to the sixth starter/long man we all had him penciled into in spring training this year, until he proves otherwise.

Which makes the decision on Buchholz a bit more than $13.5M for a "sixth starter". Even considering the price, I'm more comfortable going into next season with Buchholz over Brian Johnson, whether it's as a full time starter or as the sixth starter.
 

Al Zarilla

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I know it's woulda coulda shoulda but if I sent a pitcher out there to run, I'd goddamn sure instruct him to reach for a base with his non-throwing arm. Not so much for shoulder injuries as finger/hand stuff.
Reaching with his left arm might be unnatural enough to him though that he would injure himself in some other way. No good answer to this mini-tragedy.
 

YTF

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I know it's woulda coulda shoulda but if I sent a pitcher out there to run, I'd goddamn sure instruct him to reach for a base with his non-throwing arm. Not so much for shoulder injuries as finger/hand stuff.

Like anything it's all instinct, unless you've become trained through repetition to do otherwise. Guessing that's not the case here and Wright naturally went with the dominate side as most of us would have.
 

SpaceMan37

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Like anything it's all instinct, unless you've become trained through repetition to do otherwise. Guessing that's not the case here and Wright naturally went with the dominate side as most of us would have.
Yeah, his natural instinct is to try to imitate Ricky Henderson on the bases, but the coaches should have told him to stand on the base and not move until he was told to.
 

YTF

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Yeah, his natural instinct is to try to imitate Ricky Henderson on the bases, but the coaches should have told him to stand on the base and not move until he was told to.
I've mentioned upthread that he was much to far off the bag. My point here was that you can tell a guy to go back with his left, but unless he's used to doing that his instinct (as would most of ours) would be to reach back with the dominant hand.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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Steven Wright has no damage in ailing shoulder, second opinion confirms; status still uncertain

There weren't any surprises on Tuesday when Boston Red Sox knuckleballer Steven Wright got a second opinion on his balky right shoulder. But there also wasn't any guarantee that Wright will pitch again this season.

Wright met with Los Angeles-based orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache, who confirmed the diagnosis of the Red Sox medical staff that the right-hander has inflammation in his throwing shoulder but no structural damage.

"It's definitely peace of mind more than anything, because having two doctors explain to you the same exact thing from looking at the same MRI, it's definitely encouraging," Wright said. "Now it's just a matter of tolerating the pain and taking it day by day and not getting too far ahead of ourselves."
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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At this point, wright should be given some lo-lev innings for live action but if the Sox are playoff bound, he'll have to be in a mop-up -save the bullpen role a la Wakefield in '04 or extra innings games when the full pen is exhausted. Clay is pitching well enough to continue as the no.4 or even 3- pending how EdRo and Drew finish out.
Price and Porcello basically guaranteed the 1 and 2 spots.
 

tims4wins

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Isn't it crazy that a guy who was such a mainstay for the first half plus of the season will be a total afterthought come October?
 

tims4wins

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Is it really that unusual for a good player to miss half a season due to injury?
No, but the guy almost single handedly kept the team alive from a pitching perspective during the first half (along with Porcello). They'd have been toast without him. I am sure there are examples of something similar but I am hard pressed to think of them.
 

Koufax

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Farrell said yesterday that Wright has had a very good throwing session in Florida. Maybe he'll be back soon.
 

joe dokes

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No, but the guy almost single handedly kept the team alive from a pitching perspective during the first half (along with Porcello). They'd have been toast without him. I am sure there are examples of something similar but I am hard pressed to think of them.
Buchholz 2013 pitched in Game 63 and then Game 146.
 

joet444

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I don't post much on these forums but I feel the urge to chime in here ... why the hell would you let your most valuable asset at the time (a pitcher with one of the lowest ERAs in MLB) pinch run? That is the single stupidest move I have ever seen a manager make in 60 years (even worse than leaving Buckner in to play first), it was almost as if he was intentionally sabotaging the man's career. That stupidity should only be rewarded with a boot in the ass out the door. I have never been much of a proponent of firing Farrell, until this incident and it made me look at him in a different light.
I really think that Wright has a law suit against Farrell (and maybe the Red Sox) for this bone-headed screw-up. Farrell may very well have ruined the man's career.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't post much on these forums but I feel the urge to chime in here ... why the hell would you let your most valuable asset at the time (a pitcher with one of the lowest ERAs in MLB) pinch run? That is the single stupidest move I have ever seen a manager make in 60 years (even worse than leaving Buckner in to play first), it was almost as if he was intentionally sabotaging the man's career. That stupidity should only be rewarded with a boot in the ass out the door. I have never been much of a proponent of firing Farrell, until this incident and it made me look at him in a different light.
I really think that Wright has a law suit against Farrell (and maybe the Red Sox) for this bone-headed screw-up. Farrell may very well have ruined the man's career.
The first part of your post makes sense in that one can at least have a logical argument either way. The counter argument is that there was a rather unpredictable turn of events that resulted in an unfortunate injury.

Keep in mind that the Sox were on the road against the Dodgers, looking to see if they could get 2 of 3. They were down 6-2 going into the 6th inning; not an insurmountable lead, especially with the Dodgers having to pull their starter early. Shaw, playing 1B, leads with a one out single against Avilan, an LHP. So Aaron Hill, the righty, pinch hits for Holt, the lefty. The move works; Hill doubles, Shaw scores. Next batter up for the Sox (Holaday) strikes out. But then Benintendi strokes a single, scoring Hill. Pitcher's spot is up. Brentz hits for Price, Dodgers pull the double switch and Joe Blanton comes on. The Sox do the obvious, and Ortiz pinch hits for Brentz. Papi walks, and Betts singles, putting the tying run on 2nd base.

Now there's a bit of a dilemma, in that Farrell had few good options. At that point, he's got justification for going all out to win that game. The Dodgers are on their 5th pitcher. The Sox can potentially tie it up with a base hit with JBJ at the plate. The problem is that it is Ortiz's ankles that are on 2B, and I seem to recall he did not look good running at all. He had also played 1B the prior game. The only bench players remaining were Leon and Ramirez. Hanley was in the middle of his slump, and using him as a pinch runner means that they would have to burn his appearance solely as a runner (not ideal for a game in an NL park), or put him in at first and have the pitcher's spot possibly come up the next inning. He may also have been hurting, as he missed a few games around that time. And Leon and running don't belong in the same sentence. So, Wright got to be the Next Man Up. I don't think anyone expected him to nearly get picked off, or to have slide on his shoulder to avoid the pickoff. There's a good chance Wright doesn't need to run at all (which would have been the case), or he has a rather straightforward run to third or home.

Your last paragraph is nonsense. Players assume the risk of injury by being on the roster, and the role he was asked to play was perfectly legitimate.
 

Rovin Romine

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Thanks, I am thinking more along the lines of a guy who was so crucial for so long then missed the playoffs
In 2003, Kim was our closer and hurt his shoulder in the first game of the post season. He appeared only in the one game and was left off the roster for the ALCS against the Yankees. (Damon was concussed during the closing game of the ALDS, but appeared in the ALCS - crazy!)
 

Al Zarilla

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The first part of your post makes sense in that one can at least have a logical argument either way. The counter argument is that there was a rather unpredictable turn of events that resulted in an unfortunate injury.

Keep in mind that the Sox were on the road against the Dodgers, looking to see if they could get 2 of 3. They were down 6-2 going into the 6th inning; not an insurmountable lead, especially with the Dodgers having to pull their starter early. Shaw, playing 1B, leads with a one out single against Avilan, an LHP. So Aaron Hill, the righty, pinch hits for Holt, the lefty. The move works; Hill doubles, Shaw scores. Next batter up for the Sox (Holaday) strikes out. But then Benintendi strokes a single, scoring Hill. Pitcher's spot is up. Brentz hits for Price, Dodgers pull the double switch and Joe Blanton comes on. The Sox do the obvious, and Ortiz pinch hits for Brentz. Papi walks, and Betts singles, putting the tying run on 2nd base.

Now there's a bit of a dilemma, in that Farrell had few good options. At that point, he's got justification for going all out to win that game. The Dodgers are on their 5th pitcher. The Sox can potentially tie it up with a base hit with JBJ at the plate. The problem is that it is Ortiz's ankles that are on 2B, and I seem to recall he did not look good running at all. He had also played 1B the prior game. The only bench players remaining were Leon and Ramirez. Hanley was in the middle of his slump, and using him as a pinch runner means that they would have to burn his appearance solely as a runner (not ideal for a game in an NL park), or put him in at first and have the pitcher's spot possibly come up the next inning. He may also have been hurting, as he missed a few games around that time. And Leon and running don't belong in the same sentence. So, Wright got to be the Next Man Up. I don't think anyone expected him to nearly get picked off, or to have slide on his shoulder to avoid the pickoff. There's a good chance Wright doesn't need to run at all (which would have been the case), or he has a rather straightforward run to third or home.

Your last paragraph is nonsense. Players assume the risk of injury by being on the roster, and the role he was asked to play was perfectly legitimate.
The best pinch runner for the situation, if it had to come down to a pitcher, was Pomeranz, who'd recently come from the national league, and therefore was no stranger to running the bases. Maybe Farrell looked down the bench and Pom was in the john, or something. Shit happens. This horse has been buried very deep by now.

The optimistic view is that Wright's shoulder gets better real quick and he benefits from the rest of his body getting a rest. Anything close to a first half Wright would be a big boost.
 

chrisfont9

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I don't post much on these forums but I feel the urge to chime in here ... why the hell would you let your most valuable asset at the time (a pitcher with one of the lowest ERAs in MLB) pinch run? That is the single stupidest move I have ever seen a manager make in 60 years (even worse than leaving Buckner in to play first), it was almost as if he was intentionally sabotaging the man's career. That stupidity should only be rewarded with a boot in the ass out the door. I have never been much of a proponent of firing Farrell, until this incident and it made me look at him in a different light.
I really think that Wright has a law suit against Farrell (and maybe the Red Sox) for this bone-headed screw-up. Farrell may very well have ruined the man's career.
I'm glad I don't work for you. In hindsight it obviously wasn't a good idea, but destabilizing the entire organization as a result is a bit much.

And the lawsuit idea... I mean, that's hilarious.
 

lexrageorge

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The best pinch runner for the situation, if it had to come down to a pitcher, was Pomeranz, who'd recently come from the national league, and therefore was no stranger to running the bases. Maybe Farrell looked down the bench and Pom was in the john, or something. Shit happens. This horse has been buried very deep by now.

The optimistic view is that Wright's shoulder gets better real quick and he benefits from the rest of his body getting a rest. Anything close to a first half Wright would be a big boost.
Except, Pomerantz had pitched the prior Thursday, and was slated to pitch the coming Wednesday. Which means that it was likely Drew's throwing day. Which means he could have been available to pitch an inning or 2 had the game gone into extra innings on the road in an NL park.
 

tims4wins

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In 2003, Kim was our closer and hurt his shoulder in the first game of the post season. He appeared only in the one game and was left off the roster for the ALCS against the Yankees. (Damon was concussed during the closing game of the ALDS, but appeared in the ALCS - crazy!)
Good example, although Kim hardly carried the team like Wright did for such a long stretch
 

chonce1

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Except, Pomerantz had pitched the prior Thursday, and was slated to pitch the coming Wednesday. Which means that it was likely Drew's throwing day. Which means he could have been available to pitch an inning or 2 had the game gone into extra innings on the road in an NL park.
This is a rationale, but if I am assessing risk, I think Pomerantz still should've run. Yes, maybe you miss out on an emergency inning, but you might not need it. Maybe the less experienced base runner gets hurt or doesn't.

I recognize this is said with the benefit of hindsight, but I can't help that. I still feel the scorn toward Farrelll over this issue is pretty justified.
 

SpaceMan37

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Except, Pomerantz had pitched the prior Thursday, and was slated to pitch the coming Wednesday. Which means that it was likely Drew's throwing day. Which means he could have been available to pitch an inning or 2 had the game gone into extra innings on the road in an NL park.
The main issue was that no coach told Wright to stand on the base and not move until the ball is in play and hits the ground. There was no need for him to imitate Ricky Henderson trying to get a huge secondary lead.

Priorities for pitchers pinch running:
A) Don't get hurt
B) Don't get hurt
C) Don't get hurt
D) Don't get hurt
...
Z) Score a run
 

chrisfont9

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The main issue was that no coach told Wright to stand on the base and not move until the ball is in play and hits the ground. There was no need for him to imitate Ricky Henderson trying to get a huge secondary lead.

Priorities for pitchers pinch running:
A) Don't get hurt
B) Don't get hurt
C) Don't get hurt
D) Don't get hurt
...
Z) Score a run
OK, sure. But shouldn't we also ask, why did Wright even need to be told any of this? He knows way more about playing baseball than any of us ever will. He knows that a pitcher's job, when batting or running the bases, is to keep it simple. I'm sure he has spent enough time on the basepaths in his professional life to know what that means. And he goes diving around on the bases anyway.