Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread
- Thread starter BGrif21125
- Start date
Boxing is the worst fucking sport in the history of the world. That decision was a fucking joke. I'm gonna try real hard not to watch anymore of this tournament. What a fucking joke. Dirrell should drop out of this joke of a tournament.
Froch won the fight before it even started. Bullshit. European fighters just have to last 12 rounds regardless of the fight. I'm so disgusted. This is bullshit.
Froch won the fight before it even started. Bullshit. European fighters just have to last 12 rounds regardless of the fight. I'm so disgusted. This is bullshit.
You've got to seriously wonder about Taylor's future in the tourney (or as a fighter, period) at this point. That was a bad KO, and he's now been KO'd 3 times in the past ~2 years. He's at the point where a fighter needs to take at least ~9-12 months off to recover and re-evaluate things, but the tourney doesn't allow for that. He's got 2 more tough matchups in a row coming up.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Allan Green take his place.
QUOTE
I'm gonna try real hard not to watch anymore of this tournament.
Then you're probably going to miss out on some quality fights. It's a great concept and there are some interesting matchups coming up, Kessler-Ward for starters.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Allan Green take his place.
QUOTE
I'm gonna try real hard not to watch anymore of this tournament.
Then you're probably going to miss out on some quality fights. It's a great concept and there are some interesting matchups coming up, Kessler-Ward for starters.
Dirrell really got jobbed, and I have to say, I found Al Bernstein baffling. He had it, like the judges, a very close fight, yet at the end of the fight, he said that Froch landed only two or three solid shots in the whole fight. How do you have a guy winning rounds without landing punches? I mean, that's the fight I saw, one guy landing numerous, accurate, solid punches while the other guy flailed away at the air. And that doesn't even take all of Froch's Ricky Hatton-like wrestling, roughhouse tactics into account.
I guess its what you'd expect fighting a British fighter in his hometown. You'd better knock him out.
That said, Dirrell did a bit too much griping to the ref and did get a bit sloppy toward the end. But that's mainly a matter of maturity. I think, as he said in the post-fight interview, he did grow up a lot in this fight. His fight against Abraham, which I think is in the U.S., should be very, very interesting. This was by no means a devastating loss for him (at least it shouldn't be). Again, he should be able to box circles around Abraham.
Froch also just confirmed what a dick he is in his post-fight interview, but that's fine. It always helps to have someone to root against.
What was up with Bernstein, anyway. He's normally one of the fairest, most perceptive announcers on any boxing network. But he just seemed to be giving Froch a tongue-bath through the entire fight.
In the same way, I thought that (up until the end, of course) Albert and Farhood were giving Abraham way too much credit. I thought Taylor handled himself very well in that fight and I would have had him narrowly in the lead. Weirdly, the punch that Abraham finally caught him with didn't look all that bad. Granted, I wasn't the one on the receiving end. But I've certainly seen worse.
It really makes me hope that Taylor retires and pulls out of the tournament. He's been badly knocked out in three of his last five fights. He's made plenty of money in boxing and he should be set for life, and so should his kids. Time to become a trainer, or an HBO announcer or something. Give Alan Green (or Lucian Bute, better yet) a shot in the tournament.
I sure hope that the hometown decision doesn't turn fans off to the whole tournament. There are 10 fights to go, every one of them evenly matched between top fighters. How often to you see that anymore?
EDIT/UPDATE: Taylor was hospitalized in Berlin with a "severe concussion." It sounds like he's going to be OK (knock on wood), but it just confirms that he needs to hang up the gloves now. The injury seems to have been from his head hitting the canvas more than the punch itself.
ONE MORE UPDATE: Taylor is reportedly out of the hospital and has left Berlin as scheduled. If true, obviously great news. I hope he's taking some time to ponder his future and comes to the right conclusion -- hang 'em up.
I wonder how Showtime did with its inaugural Super Six show in the ratings. Apparently, Taylor-Abraham aired on regular network TV in Germany and did a huge rating there.
I guess its what you'd expect fighting a British fighter in his hometown. You'd better knock him out.
That said, Dirrell did a bit too much griping to the ref and did get a bit sloppy toward the end. But that's mainly a matter of maturity. I think, as he said in the post-fight interview, he did grow up a lot in this fight. His fight against Abraham, which I think is in the U.S., should be very, very interesting. This was by no means a devastating loss for him (at least it shouldn't be). Again, he should be able to box circles around Abraham.
Froch also just confirmed what a dick he is in his post-fight interview, but that's fine. It always helps to have someone to root against.
What was up with Bernstein, anyway. He's normally one of the fairest, most perceptive announcers on any boxing network. But he just seemed to be giving Froch a tongue-bath through the entire fight.
In the same way, I thought that (up until the end, of course) Albert and Farhood were giving Abraham way too much credit. I thought Taylor handled himself very well in that fight and I would have had him narrowly in the lead. Weirdly, the punch that Abraham finally caught him with didn't look all that bad. Granted, I wasn't the one on the receiving end. But I've certainly seen worse.
It really makes me hope that Taylor retires and pulls out of the tournament. He's been badly knocked out in three of his last five fights. He's made plenty of money in boxing and he should be set for life, and so should his kids. Time to become a trainer, or an HBO announcer or something. Give Alan Green (or Lucian Bute, better yet) a shot in the tournament.
I sure hope that the hometown decision doesn't turn fans off to the whole tournament. There are 10 fights to go, every one of them evenly matched between top fighters. How often to you see that anymore?
EDIT/UPDATE: Taylor was hospitalized in Berlin with a "severe concussion." It sounds like he's going to be OK (knock on wood), but it just confirms that he needs to hang up the gloves now. The injury seems to have been from his head hitting the canvas more than the punch itself.
ONE MORE UPDATE: Taylor is reportedly out of the hospital and has left Berlin as scheduled. If true, obviously great news. I hope he's taking some time to ponder his future and comes to the right conclusion -- hang 'em up.
I wonder how Showtime did with its inaugural Super Six show in the ratings. Apparently, Taylor-Abraham aired on regular network TV in Germany and did a huge rating there.
I just re-watched the Froch-Dirrell fight. I didn't score round-by-round, but I thought Dirrell clearly won. That being said, I have no clue why Dirrell wasted so much time in the southpaw stance. I thought he completely dominated Froch as a righty, and did Froch a huge favor by switching lefty. Dirrell had only been past 6 rounds once in his entire career, so I wonder if he spent too much time pacing himself to go 12, instead of going 110% each round. Also, Dirrell spent too much time whining during the fight, but I thought he handled the postfight interview very well.
All in all, I saw nothing in either fight to make me second-guess my pick of Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing. If Kessler can get past Ward, I think he'll give Froch a beatdown in Round 2.
All in all, I saw nothing in either fight to make me second-guess my pick of Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing. If Kessler can get past Ward, I think he'll give Froch a beatdown in Round 2.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 20 2009, 05:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2639797
All in all, I saw nothing in either fight to make me second-guess my pick of Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing. If Kessler can get past Ward, I think he'll give Froch a beatdown in Round 2.
It's too bad Ward and Kessler had to fight in the first round. I think they're the two best fighters in the tournament. The only challenge to either of them will come from Abraham. Froch (or Crotch as Tarver calls him) doesn't impress me at all.
All in all, I saw nothing in either fight to make me second-guess my pick of Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing. If Kessler can get past Ward, I think he'll give Froch a beatdown in Round 2.
It's too bad Ward and Kessler had to fight in the first round. I think they're the two best fighters in the tournament. The only challenge to either of them will come from Abraham. Froch (or Crotch as Tarver calls him) doesn't impress me at all.
QUOTE (Naehring11 @ Oct 21 2009, 09:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2640815
It's too bad Ward and Kessler had to fight in the first round. I think they're the two best fighters in the tournament. The only challenge to either of them will come from Abraham. Froch (or Crotch as Tarver calls him) doesn't impress me at all.
Andre Ward is a very good, potentially great fighter. But he is taking one of the biggest steps-up in class ever taken when he faces Kessler. I think if this fight happened two or three years from now, it would be legendary. But I just don't know if Ward is ready for someone on Kessler's level after having fought a bunch of certified tomato cans plus a used-up Edison Miranda. I like Ward and I hope I'm very wrong, but I think this one might be painful to watch.
Froch is nothing. He got lucky against Taylor and got an early Christmas gift against Dirrell. Kessler is going to use this guy's head for a speed bag. I'm just not sure why Lucien Bute didn't get an invite to the tournament -- maybe he did and turned it down, I'm not sure. But he's a boxer-puncher at least close to Kessler's level. His absence is the one big flaw in the tournament for me.
It's too bad Ward and Kessler had to fight in the first round. I think they're the two best fighters in the tournament. The only challenge to either of them will come from Abraham. Froch (or Crotch as Tarver calls him) doesn't impress me at all.
Andre Ward is a very good, potentially great fighter. But he is taking one of the biggest steps-up in class ever taken when he faces Kessler. I think if this fight happened two or three years from now, it would be legendary. But I just don't know if Ward is ready for someone on Kessler's level after having fought a bunch of certified tomato cans plus a used-up Edison Miranda. I like Ward and I hope I'm very wrong, but I think this one might be painful to watch.
Froch is nothing. He got lucky against Taylor and got an early Christmas gift against Dirrell. Kessler is going to use this guy's head for a speed bag. I'm just not sure why Lucien Bute didn't get an invite to the tournament -- maybe he did and turned it down, I'm not sure. But he's a boxer-puncher at least close to Kessler's level. His absence is the one big flaw in the tournament for me.
Has anyone ever squandered a promising career as quickly and totally as Kelly Pavlik. he has now pulled out of his Dec. 5 fight with Paul Williams. Didn't this happen already once?
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Oct 21 2009, 01:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641242
I'm just not sure why Lucien Bute didn't get an invite to the tournament -- maybe he did and turned it down, I'm not sure. But he's a boxer-puncher at least close to Kessler's level. His absence is the one big flaw in the tournament for me.
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
It adds another element to the tourney... not just how each fighter is doing, but how are the Americans doing as a group versus the Europeans. IMO, that's why all 3 of the Stage 1 fights feature a US fighter vs. a European.
Plus, Taylor gave them the necessary name recognition. He's got by far the biggest name of any guy in the tourney because of his fights against Hopkins, Winky, Pavlik, etc. There are plenty of casual boxing fans who haven't seen an Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, or Lucian Bute fight. But everyone's seen Jermain.
But you're right, in terms of pure merit, Bute should be in there.
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Oct 21 2009, 03:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641392
Has anyone ever squandered a promising career as quickly and totally as Kelly Pavlik. he has now pulled out of his Dec. 5 fight with Paul Williams. Didn't this happen already once?
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
I'm just not sure why Lucien Bute didn't get an invite to the tournament -- maybe he did and turned it down, I'm not sure. But he's a boxer-puncher at least close to Kessler's level. His absence is the one big flaw in the tournament for me.
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
It adds another element to the tourney... not just how each fighter is doing, but how are the Americans doing as a group versus the Europeans. IMO, that's why all 3 of the Stage 1 fights feature a US fighter vs. a European.
Plus, Taylor gave them the necessary name recognition. He's got by far the biggest name of any guy in the tourney because of his fights against Hopkins, Winky, Pavlik, etc. There are plenty of casual boxing fans who haven't seen an Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, or Lucian Bute fight. But everyone's seen Jermain.
But you're right, in terms of pure merit, Bute should be in there.
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Oct 21 2009, 03:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641392
Has anyone ever squandered a promising career as quickly and totally as Kelly Pavlik. he has now pulled out of his Dec. 5 fight with Paul Williams. Didn't this happen already once?
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 21 2009, 04:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641419
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
I'm sure you're right, but they could have skipped Froch, who's one of the least-skilled "champions" in recent memory, and included Bute. They still would have had the U.S. - European balance with Bute being Romanian, plus you get the Canadians as well. Bute always draws huge crowds in Montreal. Obviously it would have maintained the racial balance as well, if indeed that was a factor.
I'm sure there were political and practical considerations that went into the selection of Froch over Bute, that we'll never be privy to. Or maybe they just wanted a big puncher with a big mouth, because Froch is definitely that.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 21 2009, 04:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641419
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
I don't blame you. That sucks.
Dan Rafael is reporting that HBO will go ahead with a card on Dec. 5 at a site to be determined, and that they are looking for a new opponent for Williams. Oddly enough, Pavlik's pulling out caused Top Rank to pull out of the card, and that scrapped what looked like a pretty good welterweight co-feature, Carlos Quinatana vs. Joshua Clottey. So HBO will have a card in 6 weeks featuring Paul Williams and three other fighters who have yet to be determined. Maybe they'll put together something great, but right now it looks like an anticlimactic conclusion to the HBO boxing year.
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
I'm sure you're right, but they could have skipped Froch, who's one of the least-skilled "champions" in recent memory, and included Bute. They still would have had the U.S. - European balance with Bute being Romanian, plus you get the Canadians as well. Bute always draws huge crowds in Montreal. Obviously it would have maintained the racial balance as well, if indeed that was a factor.
I'm sure there were political and practical considerations that went into the selection of Froch over Bute, that we'll never be privy to. Or maybe they just wanted a big puncher with a big mouth, because Froch is definitely that.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 21 2009, 04:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641419
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
I don't blame you. That sucks.
Dan Rafael is reporting that HBO will go ahead with a card on Dec. 5 at a site to be determined, and that they are looking for a new opponent for Williams. Oddly enough, Pavlik's pulling out caused Top Rank to pull out of the card, and that scrapped what looked like a pretty good welterweight co-feature, Carlos Quinatana vs. Joshua Clottey. So HBO will have a card in 6 weeks featuring Paul Williams and three other fighters who have yet to be determined. Maybe they'll put together something great, but right now it looks like an anticlimactic conclusion to the HBO boxing year.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 21 2009, 04:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2641419
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
It adds another element to the tourney... not just how each fighter is doing, but how are the Americans doing as a group versus the Europeans. IMO, that's why all 3 of the Stage 1 fights feature a US fighter vs. a European.
Plus, Taylor gave them the necessary name recognition. He's got by far the biggest name of any guy in the tourney because of his fights against Hopkins, Winky, Pavlik, etc. There are plenty of casual boxing fans who haven't seen an Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, or Lucian Bute fight. But everyone's seen Jermain.
But you're right, in terms of pure merit, Bute should be in there.
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
Same here. I had tix for the Pavlik-Williams fight, and had to cancel the flight down, hotel rooms et.al. Had a group of 10 guys going.
Should have bought Cotto-Pac Man tix instead.
Word is Bute was never invited. I've felt all along that Showtime wanted to have 3 American fighters and 3 European fighters. It also probably didn't hurt (and they'd never admit this) to have 3 white fighters and 3 black fighters.
It adds another element to the tourney... not just how each fighter is doing, but how are the Americans doing as a group versus the Europeans. IMO, that's why all 3 of the Stage 1 fights feature a US fighter vs. a European.
Plus, Taylor gave them the necessary name recognition. He's got by far the biggest name of any guy in the tourney because of his fights against Hopkins, Winky, Pavlik, etc. There are plenty of casual boxing fans who haven't seen an Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, or Lucian Bute fight. But everyone's seen Jermain.
But you're right, in terms of pure merit, Bute should be in there.
WTF. Pavlik needs to realize that he's either ready to fight or he's not ready to fight. It's that simple. If this is true, the Williams camp (and HBO) must be furious.
As someone who bought tix to this fight, I'm not a happy camper either.
Same here. I had tix for the Pavlik-Williams fight, and had to cancel the flight down, hotel rooms et.al. Had a group of 10 guys going.
Should have bought Cotto-Pac Man tix instead.
QUOTE (thestardawg @ Oct 28 2009, 09:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2653933
Same here. I had tix for the Pavlik-Williams fight, and had to cancel the flight down, hotel rooms et.al. Had a group of 10 guys going.
Should have bought Cotto-Pac Man tix instead.
Ya, my original plan was to go to Cotto-Pac in Vegas. Then Pavlik-Williams got announced (for the first time) right before Cotto-Pac tix went on sale, so I shifted gears and decided to buy Pavlik-Williams tix instead, since the tix were cheaper and it's be so much cheaper to make the short drive to AC instead of flying to Vegas for several days.
Now I'm shit out of luck on both fronts.
And on top of that, Mosley-Berto was supposed to happen in December on HBO, but it got bumped to 2010 because HBO wanted to spend its remaining budget on Pavlik-Williams instead. Now it's too late to resurrect that fight for 2009.
The Pavlik cancellation screwed so many things up.
Same here. I had tix for the Pavlik-Williams fight, and had to cancel the flight down, hotel rooms et.al. Had a group of 10 guys going.
Should have bought Cotto-Pac Man tix instead.
Ya, my original plan was to go to Cotto-Pac in Vegas. Then Pavlik-Williams got announced (for the first time) right before Cotto-Pac tix went on sale, so I shifted gears and decided to buy Pavlik-Williams tix instead, since the tix were cheaper and it's be so much cheaper to make the short drive to AC instead of flying to Vegas for several days.
Now I'm shit out of luck on both fronts.
And on top of that, Mosley-Berto was supposed to happen in December on HBO, but it got bumped to 2010 because HBO wanted to spend its remaining budget on Pavlik-Williams instead. Now it's too late to resurrect that fight for 2009.
The Pavlik cancellation screwed so many things up.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Oct 28 2009, 10:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2654224
Ya, my original plan was to go to Cotto-Pac in Vegas. Then Pavlik-Williams got announced (for the first time) right before Cotto-Pac tix went on sale, so I shifted gears and decided to buy Pavlik-Williams tix instead, since the tix were cheaper and it's be so much cheaper to make the short drive to AC instead of flying to Vegas for several days.
Now I'm shit out of luck on both fronts.
And on top of that, Mosley-Berto was supposed to happen in December on HBO, but it got bumped to 2010 because HBO wanted to spend its remaining budget on Pavlik-Williams instead. Now it's too late to resurrect that fight for 2009.
The Pavlik cancellation screwed so many things up.
At least there's some quality fights to look forward to. Showtime card on Saturday. Dawson-Johnson. Cotto-Pac-Man. Kessler-Ward and Bute Andrade the four weekends after this weekend.
Ya, my original plan was to go to Cotto-Pac in Vegas. Then Pavlik-Williams got announced (for the first time) right before Cotto-Pac tix went on sale, so I shifted gears and decided to buy Pavlik-Williams tix instead, since the tix were cheaper and it's be so much cheaper to make the short drive to AC instead of flying to Vegas for several days.
Now I'm shit out of luck on both fronts.
And on top of that, Mosley-Berto was supposed to happen in December on HBO, but it got bumped to 2010 because HBO wanted to spend its remaining budget on Pavlik-Williams instead. Now it's too late to resurrect that fight for 2009.
The Pavlik cancellation screwed so many things up.
At least there's some quality fights to look forward to. Showtime card on Saturday. Dawson-Johnson. Cotto-Pac-Man. Kessler-Ward and Bute Andrade the four weekends after this weekend.
Today's Showtime Card is at Treasure Island Casino, and this is a TINY room for a Showtime Boxing card.
Tony Demarco had dominated the first four rounds against his opponent Jose Alfaro, but Alfaro tagged him pretty good at the end of round 4. Will be interesting to see how Demarco reacts to this.
Tony Demarco had dominated the first four rounds against his opponent Jose Alfaro, but Alfaro tagged him pretty good at the end of round 4. Will be interesting to see how Demarco reacts to this.
QUOTE (thestardawg @ Oct 31 2009, 08:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2659846
Today's Showtime Card is at Treasure Island Casino, and this is a TINY room for a Showtime Boxing card.
Tony Demarco had dominated the first four rounds against his opponent Jose Alfaro, but Alfaro tagged him pretty good at the end of round 4. Will be interesting to see how Demarco reacts to this.
The main event in which Columbian Yohnny Perez upset Joseph King Kong Agbeko (his real name, apparently) for the IBF bantamweight title was an action-packed surprise. Maybe not quite FOY status but a very exciting display of nonstop punching by two master technicians. Good stuff and worth checking out one of Showtime's numerous replays of the broadcast. I'd actually forgotten it was on and just stumbled across it. Well worth watching.
Johnson-Dawson should be one of the better fights of the year. Dawson's been making noises about taking Jermaine Taylor's place in the Super Six tournament. Unlikely that will happen for a number of reasons (he's now an "HBO Fighter" for one) but if he beats Johnson, Dawson would definitely be the best choice as Taylor's presumed replacement. Better than Bute. Though I have to figure HBO has a Bute-Dawson showdown in mind for sometime in 2010.
And speaking of tournaments, it is reported here that HBO is looking to stage a four-man tournament at 140 pounds. But this looks more like a "prospects tournament," in which, asthe article says, HBO looks to create a star worthy (at least from a marketing standpoint) of challenging Pacquiao (or Mayweather, it says, but Mayweather will never come down to 140 again).
The prospective participants are Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Marcos Maidana (who already beat Ortiz into submission once) and Devon Alexander. The tournament as proposed leaves out Timothy Bradley (the best of the 140-pound "new generation, I think), Lamont Peterson, Juan Urango -- and of course Pacquiao and Ricky Hatton.
Today's Showtime Card is at Treasure Island Casino, and this is a TINY room for a Showtime Boxing card.
Tony Demarco had dominated the first four rounds against his opponent Jose Alfaro, but Alfaro tagged him pretty good at the end of round 4. Will be interesting to see how Demarco reacts to this.
The main event in which Columbian Yohnny Perez upset Joseph King Kong Agbeko (his real name, apparently) for the IBF bantamweight title was an action-packed surprise. Maybe not quite FOY status but a very exciting display of nonstop punching by two master technicians. Good stuff and worth checking out one of Showtime's numerous replays of the broadcast. I'd actually forgotten it was on and just stumbled across it. Well worth watching.
Johnson-Dawson should be one of the better fights of the year. Dawson's been making noises about taking Jermaine Taylor's place in the Super Six tournament. Unlikely that will happen for a number of reasons (he's now an "HBO Fighter" for one) but if he beats Johnson, Dawson would definitely be the best choice as Taylor's presumed replacement. Better than Bute. Though I have to figure HBO has a Bute-Dawson showdown in mind for sometime in 2010.
And speaking of tournaments, it is reported here that HBO is looking to stage a four-man tournament at 140 pounds. But this looks more like a "prospects tournament," in which, asthe article says, HBO looks to create a star worthy (at least from a marketing standpoint) of challenging Pacquiao (or Mayweather, it says, but Mayweather will never come down to 140 again).
The prospective participants are Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Marcos Maidana (who already beat Ortiz into submission once) and Devon Alexander. The tournament as proposed leaves out Timothy Bradley (the best of the 140-pound "new generation, I think), Lamont Peterson, Juan Urango -- and of course Pacquiao and Ricky Hatton.
Has anyone read anything on how ticket sales are going in Hartford for Dawson-Johnson II? I hope it does well, it'd be nice for Dawson to build up a home base in CT. I have no idea when's the last time there was a significant fight in Hartford. Maybe not since the 40s/50s in the days of Willie Pep.
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 2 2009, 10:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2663779
Has anyone read anything on how ticket sales are going in Hartford for Dawson-Johnson II? I hope it does well, it'd be nice for Dawson to build up a home base in CT. I have no idea when's the last time there was a significant fight in Hartford. Maybe not since the 40s/50s in the days of Willie Pep.
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
I'm tempted to make the trek down to Hartford for the fight. I can't remember a boring Glen Johnson fight. If Dawson gets suckered into a brawl with Johnson again, it'll be a fun night.
Has anyone read anything on how ticket sales are going in Hartford for Dawson-Johnson II? I hope it does well, it'd be nice for Dawson to build up a home base in CT. I have no idea when's the last time there was a significant fight in Hartford. Maybe not since the 40s/50s in the days of Willie Pep.
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
I'm tempted to make the trek down to Hartford for the fight. I can't remember a boring Glen Johnson fight. If Dawson gets suckered into a brawl with Johnson again, it'll be a fun night.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 2 2009, 10:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2663779
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
In my perfect boxing world, HBO and Showtime would come to some kind of cooperative agreement to make this happen, a smaller-scale version of what they managed for the Lewis-Tyson fight (Lewis was an HBO contract fighter, Tyson had long been bound to Showtime -- it took a lot of wrangling to make that fight happen). Maybe show Dawson's tournament fights on HBO, or on both networks. Or something.
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover. While it's true that HBO paid homage to the Corrales-Castillo fight and also made occasional mention of the Marquez-Vasquez fights, those have been the exceptions that prove the rule. The rule being that fights that take place on Showtime never really happened (unless of course, HBO buys the rights to the rematch). It makes about as much sense to me as if CBS football broadcasters simply never gave results of NFC games.
So here we have one of the most interesting and potentially exciting developments in boxing to come along in years, and the network that prides itself on its boxing coverage just ignores it -- and will likely prevent the best available fighter from entering the competition. Showtime, I'm sure, is guilty too. But as #2 they tend to, as the slogan goes, try harder.
As Gene said, there's almost no chance of Dawson in the Super Six because he's with HBO. Maybe we'll get Dawson vs. the winner of the Super Six, but that's a couple years away. In the meantime, HBO will try to push Bute or the winner of Hopkins/Jones. Dawson's stuck in a bad division right now.
In my perfect boxing world, HBO and Showtime would come to some kind of cooperative agreement to make this happen, a smaller-scale version of what they managed for the Lewis-Tyson fight (Lewis was an HBO contract fighter, Tyson had long been bound to Showtime -- it took a lot of wrangling to make that fight happen). Maybe show Dawson's tournament fights on HBO, or on both networks. Or something.
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover. While it's true that HBO paid homage to the Corrales-Castillo fight and also made occasional mention of the Marquez-Vasquez fights, those have been the exceptions that prove the rule. The rule being that fights that take place on Showtime never really happened (unless of course, HBO buys the rights to the rematch). It makes about as much sense to me as if CBS football broadcasters simply never gave results of NFC games.
So here we have one of the most interesting and potentially exciting developments in boxing to come along in years, and the network that prides itself on its boxing coverage just ignores it -- and will likely prevent the best available fighter from entering the competition. Showtime, I'm sure, is guilty too. But as #2 they tend to, as the slogan goes, try harder.
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Nov 3 2009, 11:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2666187
In my perfect boxing world, HBO and Showtime would come to some kind of cooperative agreement to make this happen, a smaller-scale version of what they managed for the Lewis-Tyson fight (Lewis was an HBO contract fighter, Tyson had long been bound to Showtime -- it took a lot of wrangling to make that fight happen). Maybe show Dawson's tournament fights on HBO, or on both networks. Or something.
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover. While it's true that HBO paid homage to the Corrales-Castillo fight and also made occasional mention of the Marquez-Vasquez fights, those have been the exceptions that prove the rule. The rule being that fights that take place on Showtime never really happened (unless of course, HBO buys the rights to the rematch). It makes about as much sense to me as if CBS football broadcasters simply never gave results of NFC games.
So here we have one of the most interesting and potentially exciting developments in boxing to come along in years, and the network that prides itself on its boxing coverage just ignores it -- and will likely prevent the best available fighter from entering the competition. Showtime, I'm sure, is guilty too. But as #2 they tend to, as the slogan goes, try harder.
HBO and ShO are worse than the WWF and NWA when I was a kid. You'd think whatever happened on the other channel, never in fact happened.
In my perfect boxing world, HBO and Showtime would come to some kind of cooperative agreement to make this happen, a smaller-scale version of what they managed for the Lewis-Tyson fight (Lewis was an HBO contract fighter, Tyson had long been bound to Showtime -- it took a lot of wrangling to make that fight happen). Maybe show Dawson's tournament fights on HBO, or on both networks. Or something.
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover. While it's true that HBO paid homage to the Corrales-Castillo fight and also made occasional mention of the Marquez-Vasquez fights, those have been the exceptions that prove the rule. The rule being that fights that take place on Showtime never really happened (unless of course, HBO buys the rights to the rematch). It makes about as much sense to me as if CBS football broadcasters simply never gave results of NFC games.
So here we have one of the most interesting and potentially exciting developments in boxing to come along in years, and the network that prides itself on its boxing coverage just ignores it -- and will likely prevent the best available fighter from entering the competition. Showtime, I'm sure, is guilty too. But as #2 they tend to, as the slogan goes, try harder.
HBO and ShO are worse than the WWF and NWA when I was a kid. You'd think whatever happened on the other channel, never in fact happened.
HBO and Showtime worked together for Lewis-Tyson because that was the biggest fight to be made in boxing and there was SOOOOOO much money to be made. Sharing that pot of money was better to HBO and Showtime than making 100% of a much smaller pot.
It won't happen with Dawson and the Super Six because Dawson is a very good fighter who doesn't bring a lot of money to the table, and the Super Six is a very good tournament that doesn't bring a huge amount of money to the table. If HBO/Showtime worked together, they would get a ton of credit for it from the hardcore boxing audience, but it probably wouldn't bring them a significant financial windfall.
The unfortunate thing is that Dawson was a Showtime fighter right up until his last fight, when HBO swooped in and overpaid for the Tarver rematch. If this tourney had been conceived a few months earlier, Dawson's inclusion wouldn't have faced nearly as many obstacles.
HBO vs. Showtime, networks vs. promoters, commissions vs. commissions... it's not easy to be a boxing fan. But every once in a while you witness a fight that makes it all worth it.
It won't happen with Dawson and the Super Six because Dawson is a very good fighter who doesn't bring a lot of money to the table, and the Super Six is a very good tournament that doesn't bring a huge amount of money to the table. If HBO/Showtime worked together, they would get a ton of credit for it from the hardcore boxing audience, but it probably wouldn't bring them a significant financial windfall.
The unfortunate thing is that Dawson was a Showtime fighter right up until his last fight, when HBO swooped in and overpaid for the Tarver rematch. If this tourney had been conceived a few months earlier, Dawson's inclusion wouldn't have faced nearly as many obstacles.
HBO vs. Showtime, networks vs. promoters, commissions vs. commissions... it's not easy to be a boxing fan. But every once in a while you witness a fight that makes it all worth it.
We actually have mildly interesting heavyweight championship fight tomorrow, David Haye vs Nikolai Valuev. I think it starts at 4:30 ET. Might be a nice change of pace during the 3:30 college football games.
I'll be rooting for Haye, but the size difference is massive: 6'3" 218 vs 7'2 316. Haye can likely dance and pepper in some combos, but, for some of you more knowledgeable aficionados, does he really have a chance agains the big man?
I'll be rooting for Haye, but the size difference is massive: 6'3" 218 vs 7'2 316. Haye can likely dance and pepper in some combos, but, for some of you more knowledgeable aficionados, does he really have a chance agains the big man?
QUOTE (Infield Infidel @ Nov 6 2009, 05:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2672930
We actually have mildly interesting heavyweight championship fight tomorrow, David Haye vs Nikolai Valuev. I think it starts at 4:30 ET. Might be a nice change of pace during the 3:30 college football games.
I'll be rooting for Haye, but the size difference is massive: 6'3" 218 vs 7'2 316. Haye can likely dance and pepper in some combos, but, for some of you more knowledgeable aficionados, does he really have a chance agains the big man?
Haye's problem is that he has a chin of glass. While Valuev has a weak punch for a man his size....there's not many boxers who are 7 feet tall and 315 pounds. If haye gets caught, it'll likely be night night Haye.
That being said, I think Haye wins a decision, but it will be a pins and needles fight the whole way through.
We actually have mildly interesting heavyweight championship fight tomorrow, David Haye vs Nikolai Valuev. I think it starts at 4:30 ET. Might be a nice change of pace during the 3:30 college football games.
I'll be rooting for Haye, but the size difference is massive: 6'3" 218 vs 7'2 316. Haye can likely dance and pepper in some combos, but, for some of you more knowledgeable aficionados, does he really have a chance agains the big man?
Haye's problem is that he has a chin of glass. While Valuev has a weak punch for a man his size....there's not many boxers who are 7 feet tall and 315 pounds. If haye gets caught, it'll likely be night night Haye.
That being said, I think Haye wins a decision, but it will be a pins and needles fight the whole way through.
I'm going with Dawson by decision tonight on HBO.
I like Glen Johnson and I've got a lot of respect for him, but I think it's better for the sport if Dawson wins. Johnson's career is near the end, win or lose. Whereas Dawson has a shot at being a top fighter for the next several years.
I like Glen Johnson and I've got a lot of respect for him, but I think it's better for the sport if Dawson wins. Johnson's career is near the end, win or lose. Whereas Dawson has a shot at being a top fighter for the next several years.
Should be a good fight tonight. And it's on American soil so the winner will have to land more than 39 punches to win. I like Dawson by decision because I think he'll respect Johnson a lot more than he did the first time. So I think he'll use a lot more movement and spend less time in the pocket. I wouldn't count Johnson out though, he's not a great fighter but he has the great ability of raising his game to his opponent's level.
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Nov 3 2009, 11:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2666187
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover.
And unless I missed something last night, I think HBO completely ignored the Super Six again. At one point, they were specifically talking about Dawson moving down to 168, and Max said something like "and there are some name fighters down at 168." Ya, there are plenty of name fighters, but they're all in the damn tournament!
As it is, it's frustrating that unless I've missed something, though this tournament has been an official reality for months now, the HBO boxing broadcasters haven't even made a passing mention of it. I really hate how both networks, though HBO to a much greater extent, treat boxing as proprietary programming rather than as a sport that they cover.
And unless I missed something last night, I think HBO completely ignored the Super Six again. At one point, they were specifically talking about Dawson moving down to 168, and Max said something like "and there are some name fighters down at 168." Ya, there are plenty of name fighters, but they're all in the damn tournament!
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 8 2009, 11:05 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2674400
And unless I missed something last night, I think HBO completely ignored the Super Six again. At one point, they were specifically talking about Dawson moving down to 168, and Max said something like "and there are some name fighters down at 168." Ya, there are plenty of name fighters, but they're all in the damn tournament!
I definitely noted the same thing. There were at least two occasions when they talked about Dawson going to 168 and the "big fights available to him there," without mentioning the tournament. I mean, come on. Say what you want about Kellerman but he knows everything that goes on in boxing and is a true student of the sport. So all I can think of is that they're under instructions not to mention the Super Six.
In one of Thomas Hauser's recent articles, he discussed how upset the HBO brass has been that their sports division has no plan for its boxing program in 2010. Over at Showtime, the Super Six essentially anchors their whole boxing program. That's a plan. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Greenburg has told his announcers specifically not to give any publicity to the tournament at all. It would be typical, anyway.
Speaking of the Super Six, I didn't see much difference between what Dawson did last night and what Andre Dirrell did against Carl Froch. He used vastly superior hand and footspeed, accuracy and agility to dominate the fight -- but in a very fan-unfriendly fashion. I guess the ridiculous 115-113 scorecards reflected that, but still, Dawson wins, Dirrell loses. But the fights were almost the same. Go figure.
And unless I missed something last night, I think HBO completely ignored the Super Six again. At one point, they were specifically talking about Dawson moving down to 168, and Max said something like "and there are some name fighters down at 168." Ya, there are plenty of name fighters, but they're all in the damn tournament!
I definitely noted the same thing. There were at least two occasions when they talked about Dawson going to 168 and the "big fights available to him there," without mentioning the tournament. I mean, come on. Say what you want about Kellerman but he knows everything that goes on in boxing and is a true student of the sport. So all I can think of is that they're under instructions not to mention the Super Six.
In one of Thomas Hauser's recent articles, he discussed how upset the HBO brass has been that their sports division has no plan for its boxing program in 2010. Over at Showtime, the Super Six essentially anchors their whole boxing program. That's a plan. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Greenburg has told his announcers specifically not to give any publicity to the tournament at all. It would be typical, anyway.
Speaking of the Super Six, I didn't see much difference between what Dawson did last night and what Andre Dirrell did against Carl Froch. He used vastly superior hand and footspeed, accuracy and agility to dominate the fight -- but in a very fan-unfriendly fashion. I guess the ridiculous 115-113 scorecards reflected that, but still, Dawson wins, Dirrell loses. But the fights were almost the same. Go figure.
QUOTE (thestardawg @ Nov 6 2009, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2673265
Haye's problem is that he has a chin of glass. While Valuev has a weak punch for a man his size....there's not many boxers who are 7 feet tall and 315 pounds. If haye gets caught, it'll likely be night night Haye.
That being said, I think Haye wins a decision, but it will be a pins and needles fight the whole way through.
So Haye was able to move around the ring and use his quickness to avoid any real damage from Valuev, winning a majority decision.
Next up for Haye is a laughable mandatory against John Ruiz. How Ruiz has maintained any viability is beyond me, because no one wants to see him fight. The only thing that makes this an interesting fight is Haye's desire to fight at the New Den in London.
Haye's problem is that he has a chin of glass. While Valuev has a weak punch for a man his size....there's not many boxers who are 7 feet tall and 315 pounds. If haye gets caught, it'll likely be night night Haye.
That being said, I think Haye wins a decision, but it will be a pins and needles fight the whole way through.
So Haye was able to move around the ring and use his quickness to avoid any real damage from Valuev, winning a majority decision.
Next up for Haye is a laughable mandatory against John Ruiz. How Ruiz has maintained any viability is beyond me, because no one wants to see him fight. The only thing that makes this an interesting fight is Haye's desire to fight at the New Den in London.
How the fuck can John Ruiz be a number one contender for anything at this point? How is that fucking possible?
QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Nov 8 2009, 02:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2674852
I definitely noted the same thing. There were at least two occasions when they talked about Dawson going to 168 and the "big fights available to him there," without mentioning the tournament. I mean, come on. Say what you want about Kellerman but he knows everything that goes on in boxing and is a true student of the sport. So all I can think of is that they're under instructions not to mention the Super Six.
In one of Thomas Hauser's recent articles, he discussed how upset the HBO brass has been that their sports division has no plan for its boxing program in 2010. Over at Showtime, the Super Six essentially anchors their whole boxing program. That's a plan. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Greenburg has told his announcers specifically not to give any publicity to the tournament at all. It would be typical, anyway.
Speaking of the Super Six, I didn't see much difference between what Dawson did last night and what Andre Dirrell did against Carl Froch. He used vastly superior hand and footspeed, accuracy and agility to dominate the fight -- but in a very fan-unfriendly fashion. I guess the ridiculous 115-113 scorecards reflected that, but still, Dawson wins, Dirrell loses. But the fights were almost the same. Go figure.
I think there was a huge difference. Dawson landed many more punches than Dirrell, and actually engaged his opponent. Dirrell did not. Dirrell needs to learn that clowning around and refusing to engage his opponent is going to cost him more decisions. he doesn't have the cache of a top level fighter at this point.
I definitely noted the same thing. There were at least two occasions when they talked about Dawson going to 168 and the "big fights available to him there," without mentioning the tournament. I mean, come on. Say what you want about Kellerman but he knows everything that goes on in boxing and is a true student of the sport. So all I can think of is that they're under instructions not to mention the Super Six.
In one of Thomas Hauser's recent articles, he discussed how upset the HBO brass has been that their sports division has no plan for its boxing program in 2010. Over at Showtime, the Super Six essentially anchors their whole boxing program. That's a plan. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Greenburg has told his announcers specifically not to give any publicity to the tournament at all. It would be typical, anyway.
Speaking of the Super Six, I didn't see much difference between what Dawson did last night and what Andre Dirrell did against Carl Froch. He used vastly superior hand and footspeed, accuracy and agility to dominate the fight -- but in a very fan-unfriendly fashion. I guess the ridiculous 115-113 scorecards reflected that, but still, Dawson wins, Dirrell loses. But the fights were almost the same. Go figure.
I think there was a huge difference. Dawson landed many more punches than Dirrell, and actually engaged his opponent. Dirrell did not. Dirrell needs to learn that clowning around and refusing to engage his opponent is going to cost him more decisions. he doesn't have the cache of a top level fighter at this point.
QUOTE (jose melendez @ Nov 8 2009, 08:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2675820
How the fuck can John Ruiz be a number one contender for anything at this point? How is that fucking possible?
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
And the problem with the Showtime tourney, as much as I am enjoying it, is there's no Bute, who is one of the top 3 at that weight class.
How the fuck can John Ruiz be a number one contender for anything at this point? How is that fucking possible?
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
And the problem with the Showtime tourney, as much as I am enjoying it, is there's no Bute, who is one of the top 3 at that weight class.
A couple of weeks late, but I just got around to watching the ESPN "30 For 30" documentary "Muhammad and Larry," about the Larry Holmes-Muhammad Ali fight/debacle of 1980. The Maysles Brothers (who in the 60s and 70s were sort of the Coppola/Scorsese/Spileberg of documentary filmaking) made a documentary about the fight. It was kind of an early, better "24/7," but once the fight turned out as terribly as it did, they couldn't find anyone to air or distribute it. This "30 For 30" is about 75% footage from the Maysles' film, interspersed with contemporary interviews, including with Holmes.
It next airs Nov.. 29 on ESPN Classic at 8 pm. I highly recommend checking it out, though it's kind of tough to watch knowing what happened in the fight and to Ali in the coming years. It's clear from the Maysles' footage that Ali was already slurring his speech somewhat even before the Holmes fight (he had "retired" two years earlier, after winning the heavyweight championship for a then-record fourth time).
And Thomas Hauser reveals in the documentary (at least this is something I hadn't heard) that two months before the fight, Ali went in for a two-day neurological exam at the Mayo Clinic where it was found that he couldn't accurately touch his finger to his nose, among other clear symptoms of neurological decay. Yet the Nevada State Athletic Commission licensed Ali anyway and never released the report to the public. The documentary also points out that the fight resulted in one of Las Vegas's biggest days ever at the gaming tables.
It's also shown how Ali took some of his worst beatings in sparring where he would allow sparring partners to hit him so he could "get accustomed to the blows," which resulted in not only brain damage but kidney damage that depleted him. And to make matters even worse, Ali was popping thyroid medication that he didn't need as an energy booster leading into the fight.
On the other hand, Holmes, who's usually portrayed as something of a bitter jerk, comes across as a jovial, down-to-Earth huy who's justifiably proud of his accomplishments and has done quite well for himself in his post-boxing life.
Great stuff -- check it out.
It next airs Nov.. 29 on ESPN Classic at 8 pm. I highly recommend checking it out, though it's kind of tough to watch knowing what happened in the fight and to Ali in the coming years. It's clear from the Maysles' footage that Ali was already slurring his speech somewhat even before the Holmes fight (he had "retired" two years earlier, after winning the heavyweight championship for a then-record fourth time).
And Thomas Hauser reveals in the documentary (at least this is something I hadn't heard) that two months before the fight, Ali went in for a two-day neurological exam at the Mayo Clinic where it was found that he couldn't accurately touch his finger to his nose, among other clear symptoms of neurological decay. Yet the Nevada State Athletic Commission licensed Ali anyway and never released the report to the public. The documentary also points out that the fight resulted in one of Las Vegas's biggest days ever at the gaming tables.
It's also shown how Ali took some of his worst beatings in sparring where he would allow sparring partners to hit him so he could "get accustomed to the blows," which resulted in not only brain damage but kidney damage that depleted him. And to make matters even worse, Ali was popping thyroid medication that he didn't need as an energy booster leading into the fight.
On the other hand, Holmes, who's usually portrayed as something of a bitter jerk, comes across as a jovial, down-to-Earth huy who's justifiably proud of his accomplishments and has done quite well for himself in his post-boxing life.
Great stuff -- check it out.
QUOTE (thestardawg @ Nov 8 2009, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2675858
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
And the problem with the Showtime tourney, as much as I am enjoying it, is there's no Bute, who is one of the top 3 at that weight class.
I know that, but seriously, Ruiz? It's impossible that anyone is making money from Ruiz fighting.
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
And the problem with the Showtime tourney, as much as I am enjoying it, is there's no Bute, who is one of the top 3 at that weight class.
I know that, but seriously, Ruiz? It's impossible that anyone is making money from Ruiz fighting.
QUOTE (jose melendez @ Nov 8 2009, 11:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2675945
I know that, but seriously, Ruiz? It's impossible that anyone is making money from Ruiz fighting.
here's a rundown from Dan Rafael
QUOTE
Former two-time heavyweight titleholder Ruiz hadn't fought since losing a controversial split decision to Nikolai Valuev for a vacant title in August 2008. Because of the controversy, the WBA kept Ruiz as its mandatory challenger. When Valuev wanted to defend the title against David Haye in the main event, Ruiz, 37, had to agree to step aside to allow it to happen, but with certain guarantees. One was a spot on the undercard and the other was the guarantee that the winner of the main event would make his first defense against Ruiz by May as long as Ruiz won. Ruiz did win, and easily (TKO 7). And he did it largely without the horrible grabbing, mauling, unwatchable style that has become his trademark. . . .
In the seventh, a series of right hands knocked Serin into the ropes, which held him up, and referee Josef Temml ruled it a knockdown. Two more hard rights from Ruiz during the follow-up attack prompted Serin's corner to throw in the towel
I know that, but seriously, Ruiz? It's impossible that anyone is making money from Ruiz fighting.
here's a rundown from Dan Rafael
QUOTE
Former two-time heavyweight titleholder Ruiz hadn't fought since losing a controversial split decision to Nikolai Valuev for a vacant title in August 2008. Because of the controversy, the WBA kept Ruiz as its mandatory challenger. When Valuev wanted to defend the title against David Haye in the main event, Ruiz, 37, had to agree to step aside to allow it to happen, but with certain guarantees. One was a spot on the undercard and the other was the guarantee that the winner of the main event would make his first defense against Ruiz by May as long as Ruiz won. Ruiz did win, and easily (TKO 7). And he did it largely without the horrible grabbing, mauling, unwatchable style that has become his trademark. . . .
In the seventh, a series of right hands knocked Serin into the ropes, which held him up, and referee Josef Temml ruled it a knockdown. Two more hard rights from Ruiz during the follow-up attack prompted Serin's corner to throw in the towel
QUOTE (thestardawg @ Nov 8 2009, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2675858
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I'll go one step further and say that belts aren't becoming increasingly meaningless... because they already are 100% meaningless.
John Ruiz being a #1 contender is a joke, but the belt that he's the #1 contender for is a complete joke too. So what difference does it make?
Because the alphabet soup divisions are about as legit as Fantasy land. Belts are becoming increasingly meaningless, unless they are unifed to create a undisputed champion.
I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I'll go one step further and say that belts aren't becoming increasingly meaningless... because they already are 100% meaningless.
John Ruiz being a #1 contender is a joke, but the belt that he's the #1 contender for is a complete joke too. So what difference does it make?
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 9 2009, 12:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2676410
I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I'll go one step further and say that belts aren't becoming increasingly meaningless... because they already are 100% meaningless.
John Ruiz being a #1 contender is a joke, but the belt that he's the #1 contender for is a complete joke too. So what difference does it make?
Agreed, but it seems to me that most boxing fans (casual and hardcore) realize that the belts are meaningless. It seems like, to me at least, that most seem to have a bigger respect for RING Magazine's rankings versus any of the alphabet organizations. At some point boxing will need to realize that fans want to see one champion per weight division. Or at least I hope.
I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I'll go one step further and say that belts aren't becoming increasingly meaningless... because they already are 100% meaningless.
John Ruiz being a #1 contender is a joke, but the belt that he's the #1 contender for is a complete joke too. So what difference does it make?
Agreed, but it seems to me that most boxing fans (casual and hardcore) realize that the belts are meaningless. It seems like, to me at least, that most seem to have a bigger respect for RING Magazine's rankings versus any of the alphabet organizations. At some point boxing will need to realize that fans want to see one champion per weight division. Or at least I hope.
Let me get this out the way first. Months ago, I told you guys that Pavlik/Williams would never happen because Kelly's camp isn't stupid enough to put him in there with Pwill. Too much speed and too much variety on offense. Well....
QUOTE
WBC/WBO Middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik has, according to various reports, recovered from his staph infection and plans to defend his titles against Miguel Espino of "The Contender" fame on December 19 in the headline bout of a show that takes place in his backyard of Youngstown, Ohio. Pavlik had been scheduled to face Paul Williams on December 5 but withdrew, for the second time, with the lingering staph infection. Williams will now face Sergio Martinez on the same date.
Coward.
QUOTE
WBC/WBO Middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik has, according to various reports, recovered from his staph infection and plans to defend his titles against Miguel Espino of "The Contender" fame on December 19 in the headline bout of a show that takes place in his backyard of Youngstown, Ohio. Pavlik had been scheduled to face Paul Williams on December 5 but withdrew, for the second time, with the lingering staph infection. Williams will now face Sergio Martinez on the same date.
Coward.
I'm amazed how hard Pavlik fell from one of my favorite fighters to someone I wish would just go away.
Is the Espino fight at least going to be at middleweight? Pavlik won the belt over two years ago and has yet to fight against a real middleweight contender. The guy is a fucking joke.
Is the Espino fight at least going to be at middleweight? Pavlik won the belt over two years ago and has yet to fight against a real middleweight contender. The guy is a fucking joke.
QUOTE (Naehring11 @ Nov 10 2009, 09:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2677516
I'm amazed how hard Pavlik fell from one of my favorite fighters to someone I wish would just go away.
Is the Espino fight at least going to be at middleweight? Pavlik won the belt over two years ago and has yet to fight against a real middleweight contender. The guy is a fucking joke.
Someone ought to write a book about this guy. It was just two years ago that he looked not only like a fearsome force in his division but a potential marketing juggernaut. Now he's a laughingstock.
I have the feeling that the critics who, early on, said he should dump his trainer Jack Loew were right. Not that this is somehow all Loew's fault. But I think Pavlik would have benefited by getting into a more professional boxing environment, getting advice from a more experienced team with access to more sophisticated medical care and so on. His blue-collar, Youngstown local boy story is a great one, but he can still keep the story even if he trains in Las Vegas with Emanuel Steward, or something like that.
I remember Miguel Espino from the first season of The Contender. Decent enough fighter for an ESPN-level guy. But who knows? Between Pavlik's inactivity, medical problems and all-around disorganization, maybe there's a Buster Douglas-like upset in the making.
I'm amazed how hard Pavlik fell from one of my favorite fighters to someone I wish would just go away.
Is the Espino fight at least going to be at middleweight? Pavlik won the belt over two years ago and has yet to fight against a real middleweight contender. The guy is a fucking joke.
Someone ought to write a book about this guy. It was just two years ago that he looked not only like a fearsome force in his division but a potential marketing juggernaut. Now he's a laughingstock.
I have the feeling that the critics who, early on, said he should dump his trainer Jack Loew were right. Not that this is somehow all Loew's fault. But I think Pavlik would have benefited by getting into a more professional boxing environment, getting advice from a more experienced team with access to more sophisticated medical care and so on. His blue-collar, Youngstown local boy story is a great one, but he can still keep the story even if he trains in Las Vegas with Emanuel Steward, or something like that.
I remember Miguel Espino from the first season of The Contender. Decent enough fighter for an ESPN-level guy. But who knows? Between Pavlik's inactivity, medical problems and all-around disorganization, maybe there's a Buster Douglas-like upset in the making.
Miguel Espino last fought at the Playboy Mansion?
WTF???
Pavlik is a fucking joke and I can't wait for the day that someone comes along and knocks his head off. I used to like him a ton due to his interesting background, but now it's clear to me that he's either completely insane or his management team is feeding him club fighters for easy scores.
WTF???
Pavlik is a fucking joke and I can't wait for the day that someone comes along and knocks his head off. I used to like him a ton due to his interesting background, but now it's clear to me that he's either completely insane or his management team is feeding him club fighters for easy scores.
QUOTE (Statman @ Nov 11 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2679487
Miguel Espino last fought at the Playboy Mansion?
WTF???
Pavlik is a fucking joke and I can't wait for the day that someone comes along and knocks his head off. I used to like him a ton due to his interesting background, but now it's clear to me that he's either completely insane or his management team is feeding him club fighters for easy scores.
Bernard Hopkins pretty much already took care of this.
Maybe Kelly's just holding out for the winner of Pacquiao/Cotto.
Miguel Espino last fought at the Playboy Mansion?
WTF???
Pavlik is a fucking joke and I can't wait for the day that someone comes along and knocks his head off. I used to like him a ton due to his interesting background, but now it's clear to me that he's either completely insane or his management team is feeding him club fighters for easy scores.
Bernard Hopkins pretty much already took care of this.
Maybe Kelly's just holding out for the winner of Pacquiao/Cotto.
QUOTE (mclusky @ Nov 11 2009, 11:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2680014
Bernard Hopkins pretty much already took care of this.
Maybe Kelly's just holding out for the winner of Pacquiao/Cotto.
Not sure why because I would like to think that the winner of that fight would have the inside track in fighting Mayweather.
Bernard Hopkins pretty much already took care of this.
Maybe Kelly's just holding out for the winner of Pacquiao/Cotto.
Not sure why because I would like to think that the winner of that fight would have the inside track in fighting Mayweather.
I'm looking forward to Kessler-Ward tonight. I've got Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing, but if Ward can pull off the upset, then he'd become the favorite IMO.
I just hope we don't get another controversial hometown decision like the Froch-Dirrell fight.
I just hope we don't get another controversial hometown decision like the Froch-Dirrell fight.
QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 21 2009, 07:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2694218
I'm looking forward to Kessler-Ward tonight. I've got Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing, but if Ward can pull off the upset, then he'd become the favorite IMO.
I just hope we don't get another controversial hometown decision like the Froch-Dirrell fight.
Maybe I underestimate Ward, but I don't think this one is going to be close. This is the biggest step up in class I can ever remember being taken by a developing fighter. And even though he's been around for several years, that's what Ward remains: a developing fighter. He turned pro in 2004 but he's had only 20 fights, only one against a true contender, Edison Miranda, a guy who was arguably shot and never all that good to begin with. Otherwise his top opponents have been Jerson Ravelo and Henry "Sugar Poo" Buchanan. Now he's going to fight Mikkel Kessler? Wow. I give him credit for fortitude, anyway. Not to say Ward isn't a skiled fighter. He is -- very. But he's going to need everything he's got to deal with a fighter on Kessler's level.
I'm seeing Kessler winning a one-sided, 12 round decision or more likely an 8th or 9th round stoppage. If Ward pulls this one out it'll be one of the most amazing upsets, well, ever.
I'm looking forward to Kessler-Ward tonight. I've got Kessler as the clear favorite to win this whole thing, but if Ward can pull off the upset, then he'd become the favorite IMO.
I just hope we don't get another controversial hometown decision like the Froch-Dirrell fight.
Maybe I underestimate Ward, but I don't think this one is going to be close. This is the biggest step up in class I can ever remember being taken by a developing fighter. And even though he's been around for several years, that's what Ward remains: a developing fighter. He turned pro in 2004 but he's had only 20 fights, only one against a true contender, Edison Miranda, a guy who was arguably shot and never all that good to begin with. Otherwise his top opponents have been Jerson Ravelo and Henry "Sugar Poo" Buchanan. Now he's going to fight Mikkel Kessler? Wow. I give him credit for fortitude, anyway. Not to say Ward isn't a skiled fighter. He is -- very. But he's going to need everything he's got to deal with a fighter on Kessler's level.
I'm seeing Kessler winning a one-sided, 12 round decision or more likely an 8th or 9th round stoppage. If Ward pulls this one out it'll be one of the most amazing upsets, well, ever.
QUOTE (ElUno20 @ Nov 21 2009, 04:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2694519
All great points Gene. I think Ward will be on his bike for most of this one though. Trying to get in, pot shot, and get out. So I don't think Kessler can get the stoppage.
Stream anyone? Don't have Sho...
All great points Gene. I think Ward will be on his bike for most of this one though. Trying to get in, pot shot, and get out. So I don't think Kessler can get the stoppage.
Stream anyone? Don't have Sho...
QUOTE (ElUno20 @ Nov 21 2009, 11:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2694862
This is a pound for pound type of perfomance through 7 rounds. Wow
Wasn't that impressed with Ward, and not certainly Kessler. Pound for pound? Not quite.
This is a pound for pound type of perfomance through 7 rounds. Wow
Wasn't that impressed with Ward, and not certainly Kessler. Pound for pound? Not quite.