I'm not buying Wright-Hopkins despite Winky being my favorite fighter and also being a fan of Hopkins because I'm broke and don't expect a very exciting fight. If I had the money I would hink about it though. I've been downloading a lot of PPV fights recently immediately after and watching themt he next afternoon.
Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread
- Thread starter BGrif21125
- Start date
FWIW, the oddsmakers have this as virtually an even fight. Margarito is a slight favorite (~-125) on most lines.
I've never bought the "Margarito gets ducked by Fighter X" storyline. I know it's a commonly presented argument, but I just don't see it.
Margarito has never done anything to make himself worthy of being ducked. He's a nice fighter (and is deserving of a Top 5 ranking at WW), but he's nothing overly dangerous IMO. He's slow as molasses and got hit with every punch in the book over the first 4 rounds by Joshua Clottey, before Clottey injured his hands and basically shut down for the final 8 rounds.
To me, the biggest sign an opponent is being ducked is when someone takes a less profitable fight money-wise in order to avoid him.
Mayweather fought Judah, Baldomir, and Oscar (at 154) since moving up to Margarito's weight. Those were all more profitable and bigger fights hype-wise than a Margarito fight would have been.
As for Mosley, he's been back at 147 for a grand total of one fight. And while Collazo probably brought less money with him than Margarito would have, Collazo is no slouch himself. And I have hard time accusing Mosley of ducking guys, seeing that he's done exactly the opposite throughout much of his career, such as the times when he fought both Forrest and Winky when he didn't have to.
Anyway, if Margarito can get by Williams, we'll get an answer once and for all on Margarito, since he'll be in the ring with Cotto before the end of the year. I think Cotto takes him apart and exposes him, if Williams doesn't do it first.
This is really the way to do it.
With all the boxing file sharing boards out there, you can DL any big fight for free by early Sunday morning.
Great way to watch old classic fights of the past too.
I have to attribute that to Marg's lackluster performance against Joshua Clottey back in December.
I'm not a huge Marg fan and I think he is overrated. But if he can get inside Williams' jab, I think the fight will be over fairly quckly. On the other hand, if Williams is able to control Margarito with that long jab, it'll be a long night for the "Tiajuana Tornado" and Williams probably wins a close but clear decision.
The deal as I recall was that Mayweather turned down $8 mil to fight Margarito and instead took $4 mil to fight the reanimated corpse of Sharmba Mitchell. If that's not a "duck," I don't know what is.
I understand why Mayweather would do it. I'm not saying he's a coward or that he thinks he would lose or anything like that. I just think that when he looked at the risk-reward factor, he decided to take the easy money, knowing that HBO will buy any fight that he's in, rather than risk taking some hard punches with big fights in the pipeline for him. Still, there's no question that Mayweather ducked Margarito, no matter how you slice it, or how much Floyd rationalizes it as a "business decision."
I always thought Mayweather took the Baldomir fight [where he made more than $4 million] instead of the Margarito fought. And I disagree strongly. Margarito didn't have a "lackluster performance" against Clottey, he got his ass whooped. He was one Clottey sprained hand from getting knocked out and being a complete afterthought. The guy simply cannot deal with any kind of speed and is incredibly slow.
The Wlad fight is on early since its live from Germany and there's more boxing on later tonight. Don't know if you guys read Vitali's comments about the fight. He said something to the effect that he doubted his brother could beat Brewster. Nice motivational tool heading into a revenge fight.
The Wlad fight is on early since its live from Germany and there's more boxing on later tonight. Don't know if you guys read Vitali's comments about the fight. He said something to the effect that he doubted his brother could beat Brewster. Nice motivational tool heading into a revenge fight.
Ya, this is where I get confused. If it happened as Gene describes above, where Floyd turned down more money from Margarito to fight the corpse of Sharmba Mitchell (and corpse might even be a generous description), then that's unquestionably a duck. I would agree completely with Gene in that case.
But I thought that the 8 million dollar offer from Margarito came prior to the Baldomir fight, not the Mitchell fight. This is why I've always bristled at the ducking allegations from the Margarito camp, because Floyd got more money to fight Baldomir, and Baldomir was the Ring Magazine Welterweight Champ at the time, so Floyd had every reason to fight him instead of Margarito.
If that big offer did indeed come before the Mitchell fight, then I'd definitely change my stance. But I honestly don't recall that offer being on the table at the time.
By the way, ElUno, did you ever go thru with getting tix to Margarito-Williams?? I feel like you may have already answered this, but I forgot.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/co...&id=2927585
This seems pretty strange to me. Generally you would expect an interim fight against a lesser opponent. I think there is a very good possibility that Dawson wins a fight against Calzaghe. I'm all for seeing more competitive fights like this but I don't know why Calzaghe's management would agree to this unless they don't care that much about the Kessler fight. If Dawson can get down to 168 ok I think he wins. He's an extremely quick light heavyweight and that will translate to 168 very well IMO.
It would seem insane for Calzaghe to fight Dawson before Kessler. The thing is, Showtime is in a bind. They can't afford the $5 million license fee that Calzaghe's promoters are asking for the Kessler fight, but they badly want the fight. So they've offered a two fight deal in order to tie Calzaghe up for next year when they'll have that money back in their budget. They'd put him in against a lesser fighter this year. But they don't want to go the HBO route and put him in against a pushover.
At the same time, reportedly, HBO doesn't think the Calzaghe-KEssler fight is worth $5 million (even though HBO does have that kind of money to spend). I don't know what they paid for Calzaghe to fight Sakio Bika and Peter Manfredo -- fights no one wanted to see -- but I'll bet it was at least $5 mil for the two of them. No they're presented with a fight that virtually every boxing fan wants to see, and they're balking at it.
What's become of HBO Boxing over the past several years is really a sad and pathetic story.
Anyway, on the Mayweather issue, my apologies to Floyd's fans. I did get my timelines confused. It was Baldomir that he fought rather than Margarito. Now, if we define "duck" narrowly, that's not a duck since Baldomir was the linear welterweight champ and that alone makes it a legitimate fight.
However, if we define "duck" a bit more broadly as "avoiding fights against the best fighters in your weight class" then there's no question that Floyd ducked Margarito and is still ducking him. Even when Baldomir was champion, I don't think a single knowledgeable boxing fan would have ranked him in the top 5 welterweights. Some would say he wasn't even in the top 10. I doubt there was one person who didn't believe that Floyd could beat Baldomir with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.
Look, Floyd is a terrific fighter -- easily the best of the past 10 years. And that's why it's so frustrating that he just won't fight the best opponents out there. He claims that he has "nothing left to accomplish" in boxing (except beating Ricky Hatton, apparently) yet he's never fought Shane Mosely, Antonio Margarito, Miguel Cotto or even Joshua Clottey for that matter. All of those are welterweights who, at least on paper, have the tools to beat Floyd. Would he beat them all. I think he would, with the possible exception of Mosely. But thinking he would is a lot different than seeing him do it.
I guess my point is, don't go around claiming you're better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali if you haven't fought one-tenth the quality of opposition that those guys fought.
I am looking forward to his beating Hatton into submission, though. But I'm starting to have my doubts that that fight will ever come off.
And they also could have saved the money they're wasting on the Baldomir-Forrest snoozefest that absolutely no one cares about, and used it towards Calzaghe-Kessler instead. (Not to mention the money they wasted to send their entire crew over to Germany to show Wlad demolish Tim Austin)
I'll give Floyd his one fight exception to beat up Ricky Hatton. But after that, if his next opponent isn't one of the names you listed, my tune towards him will change significantly. I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt at this time that he will fight the best out there, but to live up to that, he needs to fight one of those guys by next summer.
Being #1 PFP carries a certain responsibility, and we're lucky enough that the #1 guy also happens to be in the most talent-rich division.
The thing is, money is no object for HBO. They're the most profitable TV network in history. I hate to say it, but HBO is the Yankees of television. In 2004, HBO raked in over a billion dollars in profits. Not revenues -- profits. If they want to spend $5 million on a fight, they spend it. I read that they spent more than $4 million on last December's double snoozer of Winky Wright-Ike Quartey and Jeff Lacy-Vitali Tsypko, two essentially meaningless fights. That same night, Showtime aired its doubleheader of Margarito-Clottey and Cotto-Quintana, a hugely significant and exciting welterweight card. I'm not sure what Showtime paid, but it's the cash-strapped underdog. Showtime rarely pays much more than $1 million in license fees, as I understand it. In any event, I'd bet the house that they didn't pay anything near what HBO paid for its horrible card.
And we're not making retroactive judgments here, based on how exciting the fights turned out to be. Anyone with even a little boxing knowledge knew that the Showtime card would kick the ass of HBO's piece-of-crap card that night. And that's been the pattern over the past three years. HBO's made a bit of a comeback this year with Pavlik-Taylor, Cotto-Judah (albeit on PPV) and Barrera-JM Marquez (again, on PPV) and most recently, Hatton-Castillo (a disappointment, but looked good going in). And of course, De La Hoya-Mayweather (lest we forget).
But except for its July light heavyweight doubleheader, Showtime has given a pretty good show every time out, as they have for at least two years now. Let's not forget that Showtime was the home of Castillo-Corrales, Hatton-Tszyu, Calzaghe-Lacy, Raf Marquez-Vasquez I (and II in August) and any number of other exciting bouts. On top of that, it's shoestring "ShoBox" series consistently matches prospect against prospect far better than HBO's Boxing After Dark, from which Showtime copped the idea. For that matter, BAD has pretty much given up on its "prospect vs. prospect" premise, with fights like Forrest-Baldomir coming up (though I do give them credit for Malignaggi-N'Dou).
In short, the fact that HBO is even having doubts about dropping $5 mil on Calzaghe-Kessler after some of the garbage they've paid almost as much for (including Mayweather's mismatches against the Sharba Mitchells of the world) is just symptomatic of how far the network's boxing program has fallen.
And what's even more ridiculous is that I believe HBO rejected the Margarito-Clottey, Cotto-Quintana doubleheader, and said they weren't interested. Which is just mind-boggling.
The next time they go head to head is next month, when Marquez-Vasquez II goes up against the Morales-Diaz PPV (a fight which has no business on PPV). I guarantee most fans will be tuning into the Showtime card.
I'll be ordering the Morales PPV, but that's only because Morales is one of my 3 or 4 favorite all-time fighters, so I'm paying to watch him fight strictly out of a sense of loyalty (although deep-down I wish he would just retire).
Are you sure Morales-Diaz is a HBO PPV? As far as I know, the only booked HBO PPV's right now are 9/15 JMM-Barrios (good fight, but not a PPV headliner) and 10/6 Pacquiao - Barrera (a worthy PPV main event). If we get Mayweather-Hatton this year and the next Cotto fight should be the other 2 PPV's from HBO this year.
^Thanks for the link. Had no idea HBO was responsible for this PPV. Thought this was a Top Rank thing. Showtime has the better fight for free that evening!
"Offensively impotent" is how Jim Lampley described Lamon Brewster's performance.
Buddy McGirt stops the fight in the corner following six one-sided rounds.
Seems apparent to me that Wlad will be fully ready to fight again in 2007 and further prove he is the #1 Heavyweight today.
Buddy McGirt stops the fight in the corner following six one-sided rounds.
Seems apparent to me that Wlad will be fully ready to fight again in 2007 and further prove he is the #1 Heavyweight today.
Dominant performance by Klitschko, if a bit cautious. Still, he did everything he needed to do. I just can't see anyone beating him at this point. We'll see if Sam Peter can get a rematch after (presumably) getting by Maskaev on October 6. That should be an interesting fight as Peter is much improved since his decision loss to Klitschko. He has the true "puncher's chance."
Other than that, and thats a long shot, I just don't see Klitschko getting beat anytime in the next few years. When it happens, if it ever does, it's going to be some young stud who comes out of nowhere and fails to capture Klitschko's full attention, sort of like Leon Spinks with Muhammad Ali.
As for Brewster, the thing that once made him an exciting fighter to watch, his sheer will, is clearly gone. He looked beaten from the second round on and though it was anticlimactic and a bit depressing, I was glad McGirt stopped the fight. Brewster wasn't even going to land a lucky punch, because he wasn't throwing any punches. All he was going to do was take head shots until he got stopped. I wish there were more trainers with the guts to do what McGirt has done twice now, that I've seen.
All in all, a letdown of a fight. I fully expected Klitschko to win, but I really thought Brewster would make it exciting. Still, all props to Klitschko. I just don't get it when people say "there's no dominant heavyweight." I think this version of Wlad Klitschko could at least hold his own with any heavyweight from any era in a "pound-for-pound" matchup, with the possible exception of an Ali or a Joe Louis.
Klitschko continues to establish himself as far and away the best heavyweight out there. Steward has essentially turned Wlad into a present-day Lennox Lewis. I think Lewis was better, but their styles are incredibly similar.
Word is that Wlad might get stuck fighting another joke #1 contender next. However, that's not a huge problem IMO, since Peter-Maskaev and Ibragimov-Chagaev are already occupied anyway.
Perfect world: Wlad beats his mandatory, then fights the Ibragimov-Chagaev winner. On the other side of the bracket, if you will, Peter-Maskaev winner faces Vitali (as they are contractually obligated to do) then the winners of each side face off, and we've got an undisputed champ, maybe as soon as the end of '08.
Of course, for all this to play out, we need Vitali to lose to the Peter-Maskaev winner, since he and Wlad won't fight each other.
Also, regarding the heavyweights, I got a chance to watch a tape of Alexander Povetkin, the big Russian heavyweight prospect, against Larry Donald. He looked like a decent enough fighter, but he didn't look big enough or talented enough to hang with the 250-pound guys like Wlad and Peter.
Word is that Wlad might get stuck fighting another joke #1 contender next. However, that's not a huge problem IMO, since Peter-Maskaev and Ibragimov-Chagaev are already occupied anyway.
Perfect world: Wlad beats his mandatory, then fights the Ibragimov-Chagaev winner. On the other side of the bracket, if you will, Peter-Maskaev winner faces Vitali (as they are contractually obligated to do) then the winners of each side face off, and we've got an undisputed champ, maybe as soon as the end of '08.
Of course, for all this to play out, we need Vitali to lose to the Peter-Maskaev winner, since he and Wlad won't fight each other.
Also, regarding the heavyweights, I got a chance to watch a tape of Alexander Povetkin, the big Russian heavyweight prospect, against Larry Donald. He looked like a decent enough fighter, but he didn't look big enough or talented enough to hang with the 250-pound guys like Wlad and Peter.
Love that boxing is still talked about. I agree with you about Brewsters "sheer will" gone. I think he took his paycheck and ran. Once he saw Wlad was a different fighter last night, he wanted no part. As for holding his own against any heavyweight, I agree with Ali and Jou Louis. I think a young Mike Tyson,when he was hungry,sans the entourage, would have beat Klitscho. George Foreman in his prime? How about Larry Holmes. Klitschko is,unfortunatly,fighting in the wrong era.
As for all-time stature, I'm going to hold off on ranking Wlad until he faces another real test. And I don't mean that to degrade Brewster, but let's be honest, he brought nothing to the table last night. If Wlad were to thoroughly dominate Sam Peter in a rematch, that would prove a lot to me. Peter's much improved since his loss to Wlad, I'd be interested to see that rematch.
Best case scenario for Wlad is to one day be considered a second or third tier heavyweight like Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, etc. In other words, guys who were really really good, but not "great."
Ali will always be Ali. He would have taken Wladimir to school, as he would to any other heavyweight in the history of the sport.
Best case scenario for Wlad is to one day be considered a second or third tier heavyweight like Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, etc. In other words, guys who were really really good, but not "great."
Ali will always be Ali. He would have taken Wladimir to school, as he would to any other heavyweight in the history of the sport.
More news on Mormeck-Haye, from ESPN.com - Dan Rafael's notebook...
I know David Haye, alongside Darnell Wilson, are 2 of the biggest punchers out there right now, but to brag about beating the Champ in 3 rounds is a little strong. Still, at least he's getting a chance to back it up and win those titles before he steps up to Heavyweight for good.
Venue Row over Calzaghe-Kessler Bout
Looks like Calzaghe-Kessler could happen on November 3rd, regardless of whether the US TV channels get a big financial deal in place or not. Looks likely to be in Cardiff, but only if Frank Warren stops penny-pinching again.
Looks like Calzaghe-Kessler could happen on November 3rd, regardless of whether the US TV channels get a big financial deal in place or not. Looks likely to be in Cardiff, but only if Frank Warren stops penny-pinching again.
Wlad's mandatory will likely be the winner of a fight between Chris Byrd and Calvin Brock. This arrangement is kind of pointless, since Wlad has already obliterated both guys before.
Does Gomez have a legit shot to upset the decaying remains of Arturo Gatti this weekend? I've never seen the Contender so I don't know anything about him.
Does Gomez have a legit shot to upset the decaying remains of Arturo Gatti this weekend? I've never seen the Contender so I don't know anything about him.
I just got around to watching the Showtime card from this past Saturday. Once again, on a night of dueling TV fight cards, Showtime eats HBO's lunch. And it does it for what I can only assume was a fraction of the cost. I have no knowledge of what either HBO or Showtime paid for their respective license fees, but my best guess would be that Showtime paid closer to a half-million than a million for its twinbill of Darchinyan-Donaire/Simms-Alcine. While I would imagine HBO paid in the $3 million, maybe even $4 million range for Klitschko-Brewster. Now, of course, Klitschko is a star. But his defeat of Brewster was a near-certainty going in and, as it turned out, Brewster was totally shot anyway. He was basically a no-hoper.
Over on Showtime, granted, only the hardcore fans know who Nonito Donaire and Vic Darchnyan are, but after that spectacular upset knockout in a classic boxer-puncher confrontation, everyone who watched will want to see them fight again. The featured Travis Simms-Joachim Alcine fight also ended in an upset (how many actual upsets has HBO aired this year?). And while the Showtime announcers themselves were condemning the fight as a stinker, it had five times the action, intrigue and suspense of the Klitschko-Brewster matchup. (And honestly, while it wasn't the most scintillating fight ever, I didn't think Simms-Alcine was all that bad.)
I think he does have a shot. I'm expecting an exciting fight. Gomez isn't the best boxer around and he doesn't hit all that hard but he is a tough guy and he'll give everything he has in the ring. Gatti seems shot to me which will make it more of an even matchup.
I'm really looking forward to the fights this weekend.
Gomez is actually a Gatti-type fighter. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Gatti used to be. But the question is, how good is Gatti now? After the Baldomir fight, I honestly doubt he has a lot left. I give Gomez a decent shot to stop Gatti late or win a very hard-fought decision. It could just as easily go the other way, though. In any case, I expect an exciting, if technically ragged fight.
In other news, Calzaghe-Kessler is on. November 3 in Millennium Stadium, Wales (same location as the Manfredo fight). No American TV outlet yet. Hopefully that will be straightened out soon.
Good news. I had serious doubts about this one coming off. I'm sure either HBO or Showtime will eventually agree to buy the US rights.
It'd be nice if they could get Khan on the undercard, like they did on the Calzaghe-Manfredo card.
Yeah, as long as he fights someone who will at least fight back. That kid he fought on that card made Andre Dirrell look like Arturo Gatti.
I hope HBO -- or someone -- buys the card. According to boxing scribe Thomas Hauser (pretty much the best boxing commentator out there), HBO has really screwed the pooch paying big license fees for crappy matchups this year. Note this column.
Key passage:
I think he may be making a bit too much of the 11-week hiatus for World Championship Boxing. Late summer is always a slow time for boxing in general and HBO in particular. They rarely schedule non-PPV cards during this period. Still, Hauser's basic point is well taken. HBO has squandered way too much dough on crappy matchups. Bad for HBO, bad for the fans, bad for the sport.
Very, very excited about Calzaghe-Kessler on 11/3. That's the FOTY for me right there. Two undefeated fighters in their prime getting in the ring to determine who is the #1 at 168 in front of a lathered up Pro-Calzaghe crowd. Can they hurry up and book the trilogy already? 2007 needs a fight like this. There have been a handful of very good fights in the first half of the year, but I don't think any fight has matched the level of the previous FOTY's in this decade. Calzaghe-Kessler could do it and also Marquez-Vasquez 2 could produce because I'm getting a bit of Ricardo Lopez-Rosendo Alvarez vibe between those two and hopefully the rematch mirrors the war that was Lopez-Alvarez II.
And did anybody catch the Holyfield-Savarese fight on Classic over the weekend? That left hook Holyfield floored Lou with in the 9th was something terrible. Plus, I'm always happy to hear the Colonel call a fight for DKP.
And did anybody catch the Holyfield-Savarese fight on Classic over the weekend? That left hook Holyfield floored Lou with in the 9th was something terrible. Plus, I'm always happy to hear the Colonel call a fight for DKP.
Let's hope so. That last Khan opponent was indeed beyond terrible.
According to Dan Rafael (whose info I trust), HBO is close to getting it done:
Haven't posted on here for a while, but I see that the usual boxing freaks have been keeping busy. I watched the K9-Julio fight tonight. K9's hands were so low I think I might have been able to knock him out. He must be the worst top-20 fighter in any division. Damn you, Contender.....
I am very happy that Kessler and Calzaghe will finally get together. This certainly has FOTY written all over it.
I am very happy that Kessler and Calzaghe will finally get together. This certainly has FOTY written all over it.
Hoping to be able to get tickets for the Calzaghe-Kessler fight. With what's up for grabs the crowd should dwarf the 30,000 that turned up for the last fight at the Millenium Stadium. As the place holds space for 75,000 there's plenty of capacity for it.
As for Khan, he's got his 1st real tough fight on his hands this Saturday, as he goes for his 1st title against Scottish Commonwealth Lightweight Champion Wille Limond. Limond has only lost once in his career - a points decision in a European Title shot - A few of my friends are actually sticking a couple of quid on Limond pulling off the upset, as he's a hard-hitting rugged type, that is liable to rough Khan up if he gets involved.
They are 2nd on the bill on a decent card over here, with the Nicky Cook - Steve Luevano's WBO Featherweight World Title bout topping the bill (they are fighting for the title vacated by Scott Harrison after his alcohol related problems). There are also 2 other Commonwealth title bouts, with Matt Skelton (who took the title from Danny Williams) defending his Heavyweight belt against Michael Sprott and Bradley Price's Light Middleweight belt against Anthony Small.
That card is live and free on one channel over here, then I'll be switching to another for the Gatti-Gomez card, which is also live and free. My Mrs ain't going to be happy with Boxing dominating the TV all Saturday night! :lol:
As for Khan, he's got his 1st real tough fight on his hands this Saturday, as he goes for his 1st title against Scottish Commonwealth Lightweight Champion Wille Limond. Limond has only lost once in his career - a points decision in a European Title shot - A few of my friends are actually sticking a couple of quid on Limond pulling off the upset, as he's a hard-hitting rugged type, that is liable to rough Khan up if he gets involved.
They are 2nd on the bill on a decent card over here, with the Nicky Cook - Steve Luevano's WBO Featherweight World Title bout topping the bill (they are fighting for the title vacated by Scott Harrison after his alcohol related problems). There are also 2 other Commonwealth title bouts, with Matt Skelton (who took the title from Danny Williams) defending his Heavyweight belt against Michael Sprott and Bradley Price's Light Middleweight belt against Anthony Small.
That card is live and free on one channel over here, then I'll be switching to another for the Gatti-Gomez card, which is also live and free. My Mrs ain't going to be happy with Boxing dominating the TV all Saturday night! :lol:
According to the WBC, Maskaev is refusing to sign the contract to fight Peter, which leaves open the possibility that he'll be stripped of the belt.
This proposed Peter-Maskaev fight has been a long, annoying, drawn-out mess, even by boxing standards. Maskaev doesn't want to fight Peter because he figures he's about to get knocked out.
This proposed Peter-Maskaev fight has been a long, annoying, drawn-out mess, even by boxing standards. Maskaev doesn't want to fight Peter because he figures he's about to get knocked out.
Seems like a big part of the problem is that Don King has somehow managed to insert himself in the picture as promoter of the fight. As I understand it -- and I don't totally! -- King and Dan Duva each had a promotional stake in Peter, but Duva for some reason defaulted on his purse bid for the fight, leaving King in charge as the promoter. King has had a longtime, rather suspect relationship with the WBC. Check out this WikiPedia entry for a little history of King and the WBC. Anyway, Maskaev's promoter Dennis Rappaport feels that the WBC has not answered all of his questions about King's involvement and won't let Maskaev sign for the bout until he gets those answers.
Maybe that's a ploy on Rappaport's part, but given King's sudden appearance on the scene and his cozy relationship with the WBC, I'd say that Rappaport may have some legitimate concerns.
Rappaport and King go way back. Rappaport was the promoter of Gerry Cooney when King promoted Larry Holmes for the 1982 Holmes-Cooney fight which became one of biggest fights in boxing history thanks to the two of them promoting it as race war with Cooney as the Great White Hope. How nice.
Per Rafael, Taylor-Pavlik will happen at 160 on September 29th.
Also, Calzaghe-Kessler will be aired live at 5 pm on HBO.
I'm looking forward to the tripleheader tomorrow night. I'm sticking with Williams by decision.
Also, Calzaghe-Kessler will be aired live at 5 pm on HBO.
I'm looking forward to the tripleheader tomorrow night. I'm sticking with Williams by decision.
Quick predictions for tomorrow night:
Cintron TKO8 Matthyse (These guys will go in there and bang.)
Gatti SD Gomez (10 round fight, right? Gatti is pretty much shot, but he's in there with a clubfighter. Gomez can still go the distance, however.)
Margarito KO6 Williams (Paul Williams will be exposed tomorrow night. He's never been hit like Margarito will hit him. Margarito can take a shot to give Williams a better shot that'll drop him to the canvas.)
Cintron TKO8 Matthyse (These guys will go in there and bang.)
Gatti SD Gomez (10 round fight, right? Gatti is pretty much shot, but he's in there with a clubfighter. Gomez can still go the distance, however.)
Margarito KO6 Williams (Paul Williams will be exposed tomorrow night. He's never been hit like Margarito will hit him. Margarito can take a shot to give Williams a better shot that'll drop him to the canvas.)
Apparently Anthony "Tony the Tiger" Hanshaw missed weight for his PPV fight against Roy Jones Jr. tomorrow night. Hanshaw weighed 176, then 175.25. Last I read, he had a half-hour to shed that final quarter-pound.
I'm not ordering this one, even at 29.95, just on general principle. I like Hanshaw, though. I followed him in that ShoBox Super-Middleweight tournament last year and was at least somewhat impressed. I give him at least a chance to beat Jones at this point.
The great thing about tomorrow night's 147-pound tripleheader on HBO is that two of the three fights are very close calls. When can you ever say that about an HBO card? I give Gomez a 50-50 chance to beat Gatti or even stop him. The Marg-Williams fight could go any number of ways. It could be a close, hard fought battle. Or either fighter could dominate. Williams presents a pretty big problem for anyone in that division with his mile-long reach and non-stop work rate. I'm really looking forward to this card -- as is just about every boxing fan.
I'm not ordering this one, even at 29.95, just on general principle. I like Hanshaw, though. I followed him in that ShoBox Super-Middleweight tournament last year and was at least somewhat impressed. I give him at least a chance to beat Jones at this point.
The great thing about tomorrow night's 147-pound tripleheader on HBO is that two of the three fights are very close calls. When can you ever say that about an HBO card? I give Gomez a 50-50 chance to beat Gatti or even stop him. The Marg-Williams fight could go any number of ways. It could be a close, hard fought battle. Or either fighter could dominate. Williams presents a pretty big problem for anyone in that division with his mile-long reach and non-stop work rate. I'm really looking forward to this card -- as is just about every boxing fan.
Hanshaw did eventually make weight.
This seems to be a weird recent trend: Fighters moving up to new classes and still having trouble making weight.
Corrales moved up 12 pounds to 147 to fight Clottey and still failed to make weight. Spinks moved up to middleweight to fight Taylor and couldn't make weight on the first attempt. Now Hanshaw moves up from 168 to 175 and can't make weight.
You'd think it'd be just the opposite, that making weight would be easy, since they're moving up to new weight. Maybe these guys just get lax because they know they have the extra wiggle room, who knows.
Here's an ode to Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini from the late, great Warren Zevon:
Boom Boom Mancini
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
From Youngstown, Ohio, Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini
A lightweight contender, like father like son
He fought for the title with Frias in Vegas
And he put him away in round number one
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
When Alexis Arguello gave Boom Boom a beating
Seven weeks later he was back in the ring
Some have the speed and the right combinations
If you can't take the punches, it don't mean a thing
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
When they asked him who was responsible
For the death of Du Koo Kim
He said, "Some one should have stopped the fight
And told me it was him."
They made hypocrite judgements after the fact
But the name of the game is be hit and hit back
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
From Youngstown, Ohio, Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini
A lightweight contender, like father like son
He fought for the title with Frias in Vegas
And he put him away in round number one
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
When Alexis Arguello gave Boom Boom a beating
Seven weeks later he was back in the ring
Some have the speed and the right combinations
If you can't take the punches, it don't mean a thing
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
When they asked him who was responsible
For the death of Du Koo Kim
He said, "Some one should have stopped the fight
And told me it was him."
They made hypocrite judgements after the fact
But the name of the game is be hit and hit back
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Hurry home early -- hurry on home
Boom Boom Mancini's fighting Bobby Chacon
Kermit Cintron is fun! He absolutely rocked Matthyse.
This is bad, bad news for Paul Williams. Matthyse is his best win and Margarito steamrolled Cintron two years ago.
Gomez completely dominated Gatti. Another strong knockout tonight! Gatti had absolutely nothing (aside from a pirouette into an Ali Shuffle). Does Gomez get Chavez, Jr. next?
Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito capped off an enjoyable night of fights. I have to give credit to Williams. He is very poised and his activity rarely ceases. It was a close decision, but a CLEAR decision for Williams (make sense?). Interestingly, the fight was on the table for Margarito to force a draw if he decisively won the 12th. However, it seemed as if Tony poured his heart out in the 11th (probably his best round....that or the 8th). And Williams had plenty in the take to convincingly win the 12th en route to earning his first title.
Very emotional for me as I watched the Arturo Gatti retirement interview. Will never forget the Ward trilogy, the two wars with Ivan Robinson, the first ever B.A.D. main event against Wilson Rodriguez, the comeback against Gabe Ruelas, and many more memorable fights.
Margarito is the big loser tonight as the Cotto fight is off the table. I have to think his best hope is for Cintron to get in there with Williams, have Cintron win, and then challenge Cintron who will want to avenge his one loss.
Loved Merchant dropping the bombshell about De La Hoya going back to Welterweight. I think the idea is De La Hoya-Cotto next Spring....or perhaps De La Hoya-Hatton.
This is bad, bad news for Paul Williams. Matthyse is his best win and Margarito steamrolled Cintron two years ago.
Gomez completely dominated Gatti. Another strong knockout tonight! Gatti had absolutely nothing (aside from a pirouette into an Ali Shuffle). Does Gomez get Chavez, Jr. next?
Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito capped off an enjoyable night of fights. I have to give credit to Williams. He is very poised and his activity rarely ceases. It was a close decision, but a CLEAR decision for Williams (make sense?). Interestingly, the fight was on the table for Margarito to force a draw if he decisively won the 12th. However, it seemed as if Tony poured his heart out in the 11th (probably his best round....that or the 8th). And Williams had plenty in the take to convincingly win the 12th en route to earning his first title.
Very emotional for me as I watched the Arturo Gatti retirement interview. Will never forget the Ward trilogy, the two wars with Ivan Robinson, the first ever B.A.D. main event against Wilson Rodriguez, the comeback against Gabe Ruelas, and many more memorable fights.
Margarito is the big loser tonight as the Cotto fight is off the table. I have to think his best hope is for Cintron to get in there with Williams, have Cintron win, and then challenge Cintron who will want to avenge his one loss.
Loved Merchant dropping the bombshell about De La Hoya going back to Welterweight. I think the idea is De La Hoya-Cotto next Spring....or perhaps De La Hoya-Hatton.
First off, message to Arturo Gatti.... you delivered a countless number of memorable fights over the years, fights boxing fans will never forget. You're going to be in the Hall of Fame someday. PLEASE RETIRE.
Williams delivered as I expected. He outfought Margarito. Now the eyes of the boxing world focus on Cotto. Will it be Cintron, Williams, or Mosley? No matter what the answer, I can't wait to watch it.
Williams delivered as I expected. He outfought Margarito. Now the eyes of the boxing world focus on Cotto. Will it be Cintron, Williams, or Mosley? No matter what the answer, I can't wait to watch it.
That card lived up to expectations as the best HBO card of the year (non PPV). Am I forgetting something, or was the Gomez knockout of Gatti the first upset on HBO's airwaves all year? Technically, Williams over Marg was an upset as well.
I had it the same as Lederman, 8-4 (116-112) for Williams. I can't say I'm enamored of his style, with lots of flicking, slapping punches, never sitting down on a shot and going for a knockout when at welterweight, he clearly has the power to do so. But I have to give him all the credit in the world. He fought exactly the same fight that he always fights and it was the perfect fight against Maragarito.
I honestly don't see any of the top welters beating Williams right now. He just has too much size and too high a work rate. As long as he can make the weight, I see him cleaning up the division. I'm not counting Mayweather as one of the top welterweights for these purposes, because I cannot imagine him agreeing to fight Williams in a million years.
When Williams moves up to middleweight and above, as he will inevitably have to, I think he's in trouble. He relies totally on his relentless punching as his defense and he gets hit rather easily.
As for Margarito, I think he's got to rebuild his career pretty much from scratch. He had trouble getting big fights before and he never had a very big fan base, for whatever reason. At this point, I wouldn't be shocked to see his next fight on ESPN, unless he can somehow force Williams into a rematch. Which could happen -- I'll bet that Williams is going to have a hard time getting other welterweights to fight him now. I wouldn't be surprsised if his only options turn out to be fighting Margarito again or moving up in weight.
Back in AC, in all the well-deserved misty eyes over Gatti's retirement (and here's hoping that he stays retired for real), a pretty darn impressive performance by Alfonso Gomez kind of got lost. Sure, this wasn't the same Arturo Gatti, but Gomez did everything right in there and I was VERY impressed by the precision of his punching. I'm not Gomez is world title material. But I think that there will be a number of significant fights out there for him. I would love to see him fight Chavez Jr.
Cintron-Williams would be a very good fight, though again, I think that Williams work rate would be just too much for Cintron to overcome. On the other side, Cintron is probably the biggest puncher on the welterweight scene, except maybe for Andre Berto who's still three or four fights away from stepping up to fight a belt holder. Cintron's also a much straighter puncher than Margarito ever was. So he might give Williams' "offense as defense" style a real test.
I am definitely excited to see all of tonight's winners in action again soon.
EDIT: After reading Arum's post-fight comments and thinking about this some more, I have to reconsider what I said about Marg's immediate future. Especially because, rather surprisingly, so many people saw a much closer fight than I did. Several respected boxing writers even had Margarito winning, which I can't understand at all. Still, the perception is that this was a really close fight.
I think his next fight will be a big one. He may get the Cotto fight after all. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd predict that it will happen later this year -- unless Mosely steps up and takes a fight with Cotto. In which case, I think we'll Marg-Cintron II, which should be very interesting. Cintron obviously would have a lot to prove in that fight. And of course, there's the equally strong possibility of Marg-PWill II. I think we'll be seeing one of those fights before the year is out, or early next year at the latest.
I had it the same as Lederman, 8-4 (116-112) for Williams. I can't say I'm enamored of his style, with lots of flicking, slapping punches, never sitting down on a shot and going for a knockout when at welterweight, he clearly has the power to do so. But I have to give him all the credit in the world. He fought exactly the same fight that he always fights and it was the perfect fight against Maragarito.
I honestly don't see any of the top welters beating Williams right now. He just has too much size and too high a work rate. As long as he can make the weight, I see him cleaning up the division. I'm not counting Mayweather as one of the top welterweights for these purposes, because I cannot imagine him agreeing to fight Williams in a million years.
When Williams moves up to middleweight and above, as he will inevitably have to, I think he's in trouble. He relies totally on his relentless punching as his defense and he gets hit rather easily.
As for Margarito, I think he's got to rebuild his career pretty much from scratch. He had trouble getting big fights before and he never had a very big fan base, for whatever reason. At this point, I wouldn't be shocked to see his next fight on ESPN, unless he can somehow force Williams into a rematch. Which could happen -- I'll bet that Williams is going to have a hard time getting other welterweights to fight him now. I wouldn't be surprsised if his only options turn out to be fighting Margarito again or moving up in weight.
Back in AC, in all the well-deserved misty eyes over Gatti's retirement (and here's hoping that he stays retired for real), a pretty darn impressive performance by Alfonso Gomez kind of got lost. Sure, this wasn't the same Arturo Gatti, but Gomez did everything right in there and I was VERY impressed by the precision of his punching. I'm not Gomez is world title material. But I think that there will be a number of significant fights out there for him. I would love to see him fight Chavez Jr.
Cintron-Williams would be a very good fight, though again, I think that Williams work rate would be just too much for Cintron to overcome. On the other side, Cintron is probably the biggest puncher on the welterweight scene, except maybe for Andre Berto who's still three or four fights away from stepping up to fight a belt holder. Cintron's also a much straighter puncher than Margarito ever was. So he might give Williams' "offense as defense" style a real test.
I am definitely excited to see all of tonight's winners in action again soon.
EDIT: After reading Arum's post-fight comments and thinking about this some more, I have to reconsider what I said about Marg's immediate future. Especially because, rather surprisingly, so many people saw a much closer fight than I did. Several respected boxing writers even had Margarito winning, which I can't understand at all. Still, the perception is that this was a really close fight.
I think his next fight will be a big one. He may get the Cotto fight after all. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd predict that it will happen later this year -- unless Mosely steps up and takes a fight with Cotto. In which case, I think we'll Marg-Cintron II, which should be very interesting. Cintron obviously would have a lot to prove in that fight. And of course, there's the equally strong possibility of Marg-PWill II. I think we'll be seeing one of those fights before the year is out, or early next year at the latest.
I had the same score, 116-112.
I really hope there's not an immediate rematch. Nothing against these guys, because I enjoyed the fight last night, it's just that I don't like immediate rematches in general. They tend to always play out the exact same way as the first fight.
Although if Mosley does fight Cotto, then Williams-Margarito may see a rematch as their biggest payday, for now at least.
Even though he lost, I would still pay to see Cotto-Margarito.
I really hope there's not an immediate rematch. Nothing against these guys, because I enjoyed the fight last night, it's just that I don't like immediate rematches in general. They tend to always play out the exact same way as the first fight.
Although if Mosley does fight Cotto, then Williams-Margarito may see a rematch as their biggest payday, for now at least.
Even though he lost, I would still pay to see Cotto-Margarito.
What an awesome card last night. I'm just a casual boxing fan, but I really enjoyed it.
The Gatti/Mickey Ward piece was a real-life Apollo/Rocky teaming. Watching the clip of them training together was funny. Kellerman looked terrified of Gatti during the interview. I liked Gomez during "The Contender" so I was happy for him.
Williams has such a funny body. He's so tall for his weight. I never realized how stacked the welter-weight divsion is. What was up with the guys behind the ring? It was like a standing room section in that aisle.
They really should put Merchant out to pasture. Man, he is painful to listen to.
The Gatti/Mickey Ward piece was a real-life Apollo/Rocky teaming. Watching the clip of them training together was funny. Kellerman looked terrified of Gatti during the interview. I liked Gomez during "The Contender" so I was happy for him.
Williams has such a funny body. He's so tall for his weight. I never realized how stacked the welter-weight divsion is. What was up with the guys behind the ring? It was like a standing room section in that aisle.
They really should put Merchant out to pasture. Man, he is painful to listen to.
Just saw the replay on one of the HBOs... some more thoughts.
I was impressed with Gomez' ability. Everything I read about him was that he was a rough brawler without much skill. I thought he looked very fluid in the ring last night. Sharp, straight punches, and he moved well too. Granted, Gatti's decrepit state helped make Gomez looked good, but I was still impressed.
Gomez vs. Chavez Jr. would be a fun fight to watch.
I was somewhat surprised by Merchant's speech about DLH coming back to 147. I didn't think Oscar could get below 154 at this age. I'm not sure I really care about this, I'm skeptical that Oscar can beat Cotto at this point, we already know he can't beat Floyd, and he can't fight Mosley since they're business partners.
Dan Rafael said the other day that he thinks Oscar is trying to insert himself into the picture to try to break up a Floyd/Hatton fight, leaving Floyd with Mosley as his only viable opponent. Of course that fight would make Oscar and his company a lot of money.
Also, it's a good thing that last night's card was an example of everything that's right in a boxing telecast, because over the next 3 weeks HBO will show off everything that's wrong with boxing telecasts.
Next week, a tactical fight that shouldn't be on PPV, then the next week a fight between two old contenders that is not worthy of being a BAD main event, then the following week another PPV that doesn't belong on PPV.
I hope the Marquez-Vasquez rematch on Showtime lives up to the billing, because other than that, there isn't a truly compelling fight until September 29th when Taylor and Pavlik will square off.
Technically, I believe that Pavlik (vs. Miranda), and Marquez (vs. Barrera) were both underdogs going into the fight. But in reality, those were pick 'em fights. I wouldn't consider either win to be a true upset. So I think your point stands, this was the first true upset of the year on HBO.
I was impressed with Gomez' ability. Everything I read about him was that he was a rough brawler without much skill. I thought he looked very fluid in the ring last night. Sharp, straight punches, and he moved well too. Granted, Gatti's decrepit state helped make Gomez looked good, but I was still impressed.
Gomez vs. Chavez Jr. would be a fun fight to watch.
I was somewhat surprised by Merchant's speech about DLH coming back to 147. I didn't think Oscar could get below 154 at this age. I'm not sure I really care about this, I'm skeptical that Oscar can beat Cotto at this point, we already know he can't beat Floyd, and he can't fight Mosley since they're business partners.
Dan Rafael said the other day that he thinks Oscar is trying to insert himself into the picture to try to break up a Floyd/Hatton fight, leaving Floyd with Mosley as his only viable opponent. Of course that fight would make Oscar and his company a lot of money.
Also, it's a good thing that last night's card was an example of everything that's right in a boxing telecast, because over the next 3 weeks HBO will show off everything that's wrong with boxing telecasts.
Next week, a tactical fight that shouldn't be on PPV, then the next week a fight between two old contenders that is not worthy of being a BAD main event, then the following week another PPV that doesn't belong on PPV.
I hope the Marquez-Vasquez rematch on Showtime lives up to the billing, because other than that, there isn't a truly compelling fight until September 29th when Taylor and Pavlik will square off.
Yes and no.
Technically, I believe that Pavlik (vs. Miranda), and Marquez (vs. Barrera) were both underdogs going into the fight. But in reality, those were pick 'em fights. I wouldn't consider either win to be a true upset. So I think your point stands, this was the first true upset of the year on HBO.
Unfortunately, I didn't get to go to yesterday's fight. But my brothers and friends did (nice). So that sucked. But the triple header delivered action. Watching Gatti take a beating was sad but nobody takes a beating like him. He went down in slow motion but it was in real time. Ouch. How the hell did MargaritA [/Larry Merchant] ever KO Cintron? Nice analogy by Max with the BB and Billy Beane reference to Manny training Cintron.
Boxing needs more of these 3-4 fight FREE cards on HBO. It's impossible for all 3-4 to be duds and if one is, you hold out hope the next one won't be.
Paul Williams is scary good. I used to think he was more Golden State Warriors with his offense, a frenzy that just keeps coming. But after watching him yesterday throw punches from angles, combinations, counter-punching, and slipping punches beautifully, I'd say his offense is much more Phoenix Sun-like. It looks really fun and free flowing but is extremely intricate.
Boxing needs more of these 3-4 fight FREE cards on HBO. It's impossible for all 3-4 to be duds and if one is, you hold out hope the next one won't be.
Paul Williams is scary good. I used to think he was more Golden State Warriors with his offense, a frenzy that just keeps coming. But after watching him yesterday throw punches from angles, combinations, counter-punching, and slipping punches beautifully, I'd say his offense is much more Phoenix Sun-like. It looks really fun and free flowing but is extremely intricate.