I mean the line looks like bottom half SEC line. Is there any realistic belief in improvement or are we waiting for next year's draft?
So like is any piece of the offensive line redeemable besides Andrews?
- Thread starter TomRicardo
- Start date
This thought definitely needed a new thread and not the existing one.
And the answer is yes? Onwenu is an elite guard or good starting T, and other guys on the line are fringe starter quality, with 2 of those being very young (rookie and 2nd year).
It's a bad line, it's also probably not even the worst line in the league, most projectors have it in the 28 to 31 range.
And the answer is yes? Onwenu is an elite guard or good starting T, and other guys on the line are fringe starter quality, with 2 of those being very young (rookie and 2nd year).
It's a bad line, it's also probably not even the worst line in the league, most projectors have it in the 28 to 31 range.
Over-under on how many OLmen starting game 1 will be also starting game 17? I'll set it at 3. Take the over.
I mean this is a lost season, i think I am trying to get my mind around where we should look for improvement beyond the skill players / QB. The preseason looked really rough, and I was wondering if there was something to look for improvement on.
Brandon Thorn has them at 31, ahead of Washington.
The most surprising part of the decline of the dynasty is the craptastic state of the offensive line. The skill positions had their ups and downs over the last 25 years. I’m stunned Bill let the o-line get this bad.
Bill's most valuable assistant coach during his tenure in NE?
1. Dante
2. Josh
3. Romeo
4. Weis
5. O'Brien
Not sure about 3-5 but I'm pretty sure about 1-2.
1. Dante
2. Josh
3. Romeo
4. Weis
5. O'Brien
Not sure about 3-5 but I'm pretty sure about 1-2.
This list looks right to me. Maybe add Seely. And the gap between 1,2 and the rest is very large. If Dante were younger he'd be writing his own checks at this point.
Honestly it basically all tracks to the year he went out and spent a ton on skill players for his rookie QB and paid for it by letting veteran linemen walk (or traded them). It kind of worked short term, but then put him in a spot where he had no depth and NEEDED to hit on his next picks/signings. Strange gets hurt a bunch, he does okay with mid-late interior guys, but all the vet tackles get hurt/sick or take a major decline, plus on a team that wasn't a SB contender Trent Brown started looking at his next deal and put it in cruise control.
I think the path towards improvement this year:
LT is likely going to be a shitshow. Lowe is back at practice, not sure he's the starter or Okorafor but eitherway that position probably isn't going to be improved until the offseason. The entire depth is bleak. Maybe Strange comes back and gives them another option at guard. But that's a long way off, he hasn't been consistent when healthy and is never healthy. They're probably starting Nick Leverett at LG on Sunday. I guess he doesn't have to snap the ball as a G?
If you squint, I think it's plausible that 4 of the 5 starting spots are respectable by the end of the year.
- Robinson and Wallace. Two rookies. Robinson is going to start on Sunday. Wallace was more bumpy in camp but if you want to hope for improvement, it's probably them developing. With rookies you never know, they could sink or swim (and who knows how much Wallace even gets on the field). OL people seem pretty high Robinson though.
- Sow was solid as a rookie thrust into a starting role last year due to injuries. Maybe he takes another step forward, although it appears he's not going to play on Sunday due to an ankle injury so not an ideal start.
- Onwenu is a good RT. He supposedly came to camp overweight (obviously not ideal for a guy they just paid big money too) and thus started camp playing at RG but has been back at RT the past 2-3 weeks. There's obviously concern that the weight/conditioning impacts his performance at RT but if he's back in condition he's a good RT and their best lineman.
LT is likely going to be a shitshow. Lowe is back at practice, not sure he's the starter or Okorafor but eitherway that position probably isn't going to be improved until the offseason. The entire depth is bleak. Maybe Strange comes back and gives them another option at guard. But that's a long way off, he hasn't been consistent when healthy and is never healthy. They're probably starting Nick Leverett at LG on Sunday. I guess he doesn't have to snap the ball as a G?
If you squint, I think it's plausible that 4 of the 5 starting spots are respectable by the end of the year.
Weis might be more important than any of them. I wouldn't want to go back to 2000 without him and see what happens.
Here's PFF on our boys for the '23 season:
Andrews--ranked 12th among C's w/71.2 rating
Onwenu--ranked 29th among tackles w/71.5 rating (lower than previous years when listed/played at guard)
Strange--ranked 25th among guards w/64.6 rating (up from 54.6 in '22)
Sow--ranked 26th among guards w/64.6 ratings (run block 71.3, pass block 46.3)
Chuks--55th among tackles w/60.4 rating
Lowe--79th among tackles, w.41.7 rating (remarkably enough, an improvement over '22)
Robinson and Wallace also showed some aptitude in camp and preseason.
I'm not convinced the line is going to be a dumpster fire. None of these guys are enormous talents, but neither are they total trash.* If they have Andrews playing regularly and calling protections, and can keep the same guys getting reps in the same slot, they might be serviceable w/some upside to dream on with the rookies.
*YMMV re: Lowe. For some reason, Wolf can't say enough good stuff about the guy; I have no idea what to think any more.
Andrews--ranked 12th among C's w/71.2 rating
Onwenu--ranked 29th among tackles w/71.5 rating (lower than previous years when listed/played at guard)
Strange--ranked 25th among guards w/64.6 rating (up from 54.6 in '22)
Sow--ranked 26th among guards w/64.6 ratings (run block 71.3, pass block 46.3)
Chuks--55th among tackles w/60.4 rating
Lowe--79th among tackles, w.41.7 rating (remarkably enough, an improvement over '22)
Robinson and Wallace also showed some aptitude in camp and preseason.
I'm not convinced the line is going to be a dumpster fire. None of these guys are enormous talents, but neither are they total trash.* If they have Andrews playing regularly and calling protections, and can keep the same guys getting reps in the same slot, they might be serviceable w/some upside to dream on with the rookies.
*YMMV re: Lowe. For some reason, Wolf can't say enough good stuff about the guy; I have no idea what to think any more.
If everything goes well and nobody gets hurt, I think that Onwenu is solid and maybe Robinson and Wallace show to be future starters. It'll still be a bad line even then, but possibly closer to the midline than to #32. And it would give us something to hope on.
Of course, "if everything goes well" ended up in a bottom-3 pass pro unit last year, so the most important guy in the clubhouse might be Drake Maye's cleats guy this year. But there is a path to non-embarrassment.
Important to realize in looking at those rankings that:
- for center, Andrews is 12th out of 32 presumptive starters;
- for all others, the ranking reflects 64 presumptive starters.
As many have said, LT is the most important position and the one where the Patriots' options are the worst.
Onwenu at guard is a good player. I think Sow as a G is a mediocre option.
So, the interior isn’t bad.
The tackle options are putrid. I think the Pats have the worst tackles in the NFL (Washington and New England are in a tier of suck by themselves)
I could see Chuks and Owenu providing middling tackle play. Leverett horrifies me and Robinson will make a lot of mistakes. It's likely to be a mess. If it's not, I'll be pleasantly surprised. My real hope is that the deficiencies on the line aren't so bad that the new skill guys never have a chance to get going.
Leverett was not bad the last time he played NFL guard for any real stretch. I think he's fine as a rotation option there. The problem for him has seemed to be that at C he is so in his head about the snapping that he either botches it, or he is so focused on it the DT obliterates him while he's still looking down.
I am interested to see how Scott Peters does with this group. He has played in the league, and he was an assistant in Cleveland under the highly regarded Bill Callahan. Oline gurus seem to like the Strike system he preaches. I was a little horrified in the Washington game that they made all those mental errors, that is coaching. If they play clean and smart, they might be OK.
Also, some continuity will help. Saw lots of different combinations and permutations in camp, and that is always difficult for even experienced OL. Communication was clearly an issue in the 3rd preseason game with all of the pre-snap penalties, but that is something that should get cleaned up, especially as the season goes on. If not, then Peters gets canned after the season.
The injury to Sow sort of sucks in a lot of ways. From his recent comments, it sounds like they were worried initially about an Achilles injury. Glad it wasn't, but could be looking at a couple of weeks at least. I guess if it was longer term they would have put him on IR, but sometimes those type of calf/ankle injuries can linger.
Not expecting much from Strange this season. He was healthy his rookie season and started all 17 games. But that training camp knee injury last season really set him back all season, and then of course his ACL tear, which was clearly more serious than the team initially let on. Anyway, there's talk of him moving to center long term, but that seems like next season's plan.
Rookie OL can take time to develop; not all jump in as starters in day 1. So there is definite reasonable hope for organic improvement from Robinson and Wallace as the season goes on, much like we say with Sow last season. From the media accounts, despite expected inconsistencies, neither looked totally lost out there.