NopeBCsMightyJoeYoung said:Wasn't Masterson's velocity in the 89-91 range for his first couple of starts?
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:Wasn't Masterson's velocity in the 89-91 range for his first couple of starts?
rembrat said:You maybe want to cool it with your shtick?
Justin did have one great game against the Phillies where he went 6IP 3H 2ER 2BB 7SO inducing 9GB to 5FB. If they can get him back to that, I think everyone here would be ecstatic.
You didn't just cite a 6 inning performance against the Phillies (with an avg fastball of 87 mph) did you?rembrat said:You maybe want to cool it with your shtick?
Justin did have one great game against the Phillies where he went 6IP 3H 2ER 2BB 7SO inducing 9GB to 5FB. If they can get him back to that, I think everyone here would be ecstatic.
Hey Rad, you usually are one of the more level headed posters here but I do think you've been kinda snarky in this discussion. Masterson did pitch 5 shutout innings against a pretty good Baltimore lineup on Pats Day. Here's my $50.00 in advance since my insurance sucks and I'm sure I'll have a co-pay. LOLradsoxfan said:You didn't just cite a 6 inning performance against the Phillies (with an avg fastball of 87 mph) did you?
Look, we get you love Farrell, and we get that you will jump on any poster that criticizes him. I was making a joke, chill out.
Ha, I'll have to start an account. Maybe DRS can give me some pointers on how to collect.richgedman'sghost said:Hey Rad, you usually are one of the more level headed posters here but I do think you've been kinda snarky in this discussion. Masterson did pitch 5 shutout innings against a pretty good Baltimore lineup on Pats Day. Here's my $50.00 in advance since my insurance sucks and I'm sure I'll have a co-pay. LOL
I'm not saying it's inexpensive for a reclamation project, just inexpensive for a one-year contract on a mid-career SP.AB in DC said:
Seems a bit high compared to past reclamation projects.
I'm struggling to remember examples, though.
Savin Hillbilly said:If I spend $1000 on a used car and it dies after a month, clearly I did not get my money's worth--but that doesn't mean it was an expensive car.
Chris Young was signed by the Royals in the middle of spring training for less than $1 million. He had a 3.65 ERA in 165 innings for Seattle last season, which was in line with his career ERA. The signing of Masterson was a huge gamble on upside, it was the equivalent of putting $10 million on Red at a roulette table. Anyone in the organization who advocated for that signing at anywhere near that money needs to be called on the carpet. A scout who said it was all in his head, a manager or pitching coach who thought is was mechanical, an assistant GM who said his SIERRA was this and his xFIP was that. As Grey Eagle pointed out in one of these threads, the major league scouting has been atrocious.Savin Hillbilly said:I'm not saying it's inexpensive for a reclamation project, just inexpensive for a one-year contract on a mid-career SP.
If I spend $1000 on a used car and it dies after a month, clearly I did not get my money's worth--but that doesn't mean it was an expense
Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:Chris Young had a 2.40 ERA at Safeco, 5.03 on the road after missing the entire 2013 season. The major league scouting did their job just fine with regard to him.
He's pitched 23 innings this year. He's one bad inning away from an ERA of 5.Plympton91 said:
And his ERA this year is less than 1.00 despite not pitching in SafeCo.
And what was Justin Masterson's ERA last season, in the National League, where pitchers hit?
Chris Young is a 36 year old who generously counting has pitched 1 full season as a starter post 2007. Masterson is 30 and was a very good starter as recently as the year before last. Add in his injuries last year, the fact that his FIP was half a run better than Young, and his xFip more than a run better and it isn't a surprise they were in wildly different price brackets.Plympton91 said:
And his ERA this year is less than 1.00 despite not pitching in SafeCo.
And what was Justin Masterson's ERA last season, in the National League, where pitchers hit?
Cellar-Door said:Chris Young is a 36 year old who generously counting has pitched 1 full season as a starter post 2007. Masterson is 30 and was a very good starter as recently as the year before last. Add in his injuries last year, the fact that his FIP was half a run better than Young, and his xFip more than a run better and it isn't a surprise they were in wildly different price brackets.
23 good innings by Young this year more than half in relief doesn't retroactively change their value last offseason unless our scouts have time machines.
You can't really think that signing a guy who was hurt every year from 2008-2013, then was terrible in 2014 but had great luck and his ERA looked like he was only mediocre/bad can in any way be compared to signing a much younger guy who pitched in all those years, and was between mediocre and excellent over them, who was coming off an injury plagued year where he was still arguably the better pitcher.Plympton91 said:
Their value last offseason was apparently $9.5 million for Masterson and $685,000 for Young. But, hey, if John Henry is happy with that decision making process, more power to him. It is noted that Young has pitched quite a bit in relief this year, and that the Red Sox bullpen is only escaping scrutiny because it doesn't suck quite as badly as the starting rotation.
lexrageorge said:Yeah, I'm sure it's not hard to troll through all the offseason signings and find a pitcher who's performing better than Masterson. Because it was just so obvious to everyone that Chris Young was going to be so much better than Masterson this season. Yeah, OK....
If Masterson doesn't work out, it should hardly be fatal to this team's chances. It's easy enough to stash him or DFA him and replace him with Wright or someone else and move on. If Porcello, Miley, and Kelly were pitching to their past performance levels then Masterson's failures wouldn't be an issue at all.
tims4wins said:
The point isn't that anyone thought Young would be better, it is the HUGE difference in their salaries.
For instance, ZiPS, Steamer, and Depth Charts had Young's projected ERA this year as 4.32, 4.39, 4.36, respectively. They had Masterson's as 4.50, 4.53, 4.53. Each had Masterson with ~ 40 more IP so there is some value there.
Young is getting paid < $1M, Masterson $9.5M.
Even in the current salary era, $9.5M is pretty high for a flyer like that.
Plympton91 said:Another reason to prefer Young to Masterson is that it is much easier to replace a $1 million pitcher as soon as a better option comes along--either through development or trade--than it is to replace a $9.5 million pitcher who bombs.
Rasputin said:Your whole schtick here is just incredibly trollsome.
If you wanted to criticize the Masterson signing, the time to do it was when it was made, not months afterwards where you can use terrible arguments that assume the people making the decisions should have been psychic enough to see the short sample size success of someone else who was cheaper.
“I’m not real happy about it. I’m mad,” Masterson said. “Like I said [Tuesday night], I hold true — just the fact that I felt like we could make the adjustment and get back out there and really be fine..."
Where are you getting those numbers, I assume they are updated or ROS because they definitely aren't the original offseason projections.tims4wins said:
The point isn't that anyone thought Young would be better, it is the HUGE difference in their salaries.
For instance, ZiPS, Steamer, and Depth Charts had Young's projected ERA this year as 4.32, 4.39, 4.36, respectively. They had Masterson's as 4.50, 4.53, 4.53. Each had Masterson with ~ 40 more IP so there is some value there.
Young is getting paid < $1M, Masterson $9.5M.
Even in the current salary era, $9.5M is pretty high for a flyer like that.
Full quote:Todd Benzinger said:Despite his reputation for being an easygoing guy, Masterson appears to be peeved about the decision. He also seems to be in denial about the severity of his drop-off in performance.
Snip
“I’m not real happy about it. I’m mad,” Masterson said. “Like I said [Tuesday night], I hold true — just the fact that I felt like we could make the adjustment and get back out there and really be fine. It didn’t happen. It comes a time with this team when we’re starting to pick it up, but it’s one of those where if we’re doing great, I probably get a little more leeway. The last two starts have been different than the first five. I can’t deny that fact. By all means, as I told [Farrell], I’m not real happy about the decision.”
Rovin Romine said:Full quote:
I don't even know what this means.
Let me translate:Rovin Romine said:Full quote:
I don't even know what this means.
PrometheusWakefield said:Who was it that said that health was going to be the next big breakthrough in sabermetrics? Was that Ben?
I'd like to know why this front office didn't see Masterson's velocity problems coming. What made us believe his decline from 91.6 to 88.9 from 2013 to 2014 was going to rebound, rather than get worse?
NDame616 said:His agent should sit down with him and show him Andrew Miller's terrible splits and stats as a starter, and show him his contract he just received. Masterson knows he's currently on a "make good contract" and he has not "made good" and that if he continues down this path his next "make good" contract will certainly not be for $9.5M, but will have the qualifier of "...with a spring training invitation"
If he didn't think about it, he should be firing his agent for not making him think about the pros and cons of the deal Boston was offering, and doing a little basic reality testing with him.Rudy Pemberton said:Why do you think he thought about how much rope he was going to get? He's a professional athlete- I imagine he was a confident in his ability and thought he was going to have a great year and parlay thought into a huge deal.
Firing his agent for getting him the (likely by far) biggest deal out there? If anything he'd want to fire him for not getting him a multi-year deal at these numbers or more.P'tucket said:If he didn't think about it, he should be firing his agent for not making him think about the pros and cons of the deal Boston was offering, and doing a little basic reality testing with him.
benhogan said:"Jedi to the pen" eventually and Wright to the starting staff.
There was some banter around here on the effects of knucleballers on hitters the next day or next at-bat? Maybe Miley should thank Wright for putting Oakland in a mild funk on Weds.
Too bad we have Wright going Sunday instead of Saturday vs. the Mariners.
Hopefully Farrell can manipulate the starting rotation to get Wright pitching at the beginning or middle of a series.
Not my intent but you're right!rajendra82 said:
Since he is knuckleballer, whio have legendary durability, Wright needs to clearly start every other game. Then we would win all the games that he doesn't pitch as a result of the aftereffects, and some that he does as a result of the effects. We would be unstoppable, I am telling you.
benhogan said:Not my intent but you're right!
Here's the new slogan for NESN: "Wright... every other Night"
We'd be at least a .500 team and .500 baseball is all the rage in the AL East.
Wait one second didn't he pitch yesterday? Oh crap, scrap that theory, back to the drawing board.
@brianmacp: Justin Masterson touched 91 in the first inning but eased back after three walks, settling in at 86.Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:Any info about how fast he was throwing?