Send Jedi to the Glue Factory

[radsoxfan]

i would guess the right knee that started his slide last year is still the culprit. 

 
Ehh, possibly.  But he was pretty terrible every month last year, and didn't go to the DL until July with this knee "inflammation".  Hard to read between the lines since inflammation is so nonspecific, but I doubt he had anything significant wrong with his knee since he pitched again 3 weeks later. The more likely scenario to me is that the knee thing was a very minor issue he would have pitched through if it wasn't for the fact that he was getting shelled at the time (14.40 ERA in July).
 
This season, instead of bouncing back, his velocity is continuing to decline and he has no command whatsoever.  If it's still his knee 10 months removed from his "inflammation" DL stint, he has a significant knee injury the Red Sox probably should have known about before they signed him.  I'm betting shoulder or elbow injury, regardless of how the Red Sox spin it if he goes on the DL after tonights pathetic performance. 

 

[soxhop411]

@PeteAbe: Farrell said Sox need to gather information on Masterson. Clearly hes not right, mgr said. Sounds like theyre moving toward a DL.

 

[soxhop411]

@JMastrodonato: John Farrell on Justin Masterson: Clearly hes not right. May be physical. Team checking on him tomorrow morning.

 

[derekson]

He has to be hiding an injury. The fastball was down to 83-84 MPH at times tonight. Even at 88 he was likely injured, but this removes any doubt in my mind.

 

[MuzzyField]

If he is injured, he came injured. Nice job on the physical, doc.

 

[Sampo Gida]

If they can't put him on the 60 day DL they should just DFA him and clear a roster spot.  No way I want him coming out of the pen unless we are 10 runs down and I have stacked my DFS lineup with opposing hitters.
 
It was worth a try, but Masterson was always a long shot.  I was always a big fan of his when he had the big fastball, not the guy with the Koji fastball w/o his split  Time for the Eduardo Rodriguez era to begin.  Wrights actually not an awful option for a 5th starter, but wth an aceless rotation the team needs something more IMO.

 

[Toe Nash]

Confused why it took 7 starts to figure out he wasn't right. It's one thing for someone like Miley, whose stuff seems to be OK, but Masterson's throwing batting practice speed. Is it that difficult to go out to the bullpen with a radar gun during his side session, and if he's throwing 86 mph, make alternate plans before losing real games? Or was the hope that he would guile his way through with his vast assortment (one) of offspeed pitches?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

A reliever who can't throw strikes or miss bats. I'm afraid this guy goes into the John Smoltz / Brad Penny / Matt Mantei bargain bin full of guys that are inexpensive for a reason.

It's been a long time since we came up with Brandon Arroyo. Is this really a great strategy?

 
I like your definition of inexpensive.  Buy me dinner, sport?

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
I like your definition of inexpensive.  Buy me dinner, sport?

 
$9.5M for a one-year commitment to a 30-year-old starting pitcher is certainly inexpensive.

 

[ivanvamp]

If they can't put him on the 60 day DL they should just DFA him and clear a roster spot.  No way I want him coming out of the pen unless we are 10 runs down and I have stacked my DFS lineup with opposing hitters.
 
It was worth a try, but Masterson was always a long shot.  I was always a big fan of his when he had the big fastball, not the guy with the Koji fastball w/o his split  Time for the Eduardo Rodriguez era to begin.  Wrights actually not an awful option for a 5th starter, but wth an aceless rotation the team needs something more IMO.

 
I'm ok with him coming out of the pen.  Four reasons.  First, he's still better against righties than lefties.  He's not been good against either this year, but typically he can be fairly tough on righties.  So maybe he could be a weapon.
 
Second, I don't want to throw the money away quite yet.
 
Third, the other starters aren't exactly pitching shutouts, so there may still be a need for a long man.  I'd rather have Jedi get mauled for 5 innings if needed rather than have other, more useful guys, getting mauled for 5 innings, in a game that's a lost cause anyway.
 
Fourth, it's possible, if he's going to be used only as a ROOGY or in specific situations, that he regains some velocity if he only has to go short stints.  
 
I dunno….I think it's worth a shot for a little bit anyway before cutting bait.
 
That said, there's NO WAY he should be starting at this point.  None.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

I'm guessing that Barnes will make his next start... I'd rather it be Wright though.   I would still rather Rodriguez get a bit more seasoned in AAA before they turn him over to the majors.  I'm sure some trades will be explored, but if we can't bring in someone at least on Porcello's level (and I'm not sure if Hamels is that guy) I'd prefer they just gut it out and stay in house.
I also think 7 starts is fine.... we were 3-4 in games he started- another starter maaaay have made us what 5-2 at best in games started, so for 7 games the difference is 2 wins?  Speculative, of course, but 7 starts to me is okay.  At 8, decisions need to be made on Miley and Kelly too... but it's beyond obvious that Masterson is not good/right anymore.  Miley and Kelly still show they have very good stuff and could turn around.
Bullpen bound?  Hope not.  AAA hopefully... DFA and hope he can stick and reassign

 

[NDame616]

They won't DFA him yet. I'd guess a DL stint ("because someone has to be hurt") and when rehabbing in Pawtucket it'll be out of the pen to see if the results are better. 

 

[joe dokes]

Either he's hurt and it's to the DL, or he just switches spots with Wright, figuring it out in no-leverage long relief spots.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Considering Wright can't be used for (probably) five days now, it would seem a move needs to be made. Either send Wright back down for someone, or DL Justin for probably that same someone. My hope is that it is EdRod.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Considering Wright can't be used for (probably) five days now, it would seem a move needs to be made. Either send Wright back down for someone, or DL Justin for probably that same someone. My hope is that it is EdRod.

 
It's EdRod's day to pitch down in the 'Bucket.
 
The best thing to do IMO, would be to option Wright in a paper move and fly in EdRod to be the long man today, and then recall Wright tomorrow (who would never have needed to report to AAA) for the start of the Seattle series once Masterson's on the DL.
 
If there's no medical findings that would justify a 15-day rest (unlikely), then just slot EdRod into the rotation and use Masterson as the long man.  But either way, EdRod has to start in place of Masterson on Sunday.

 

[johnnywayback]

I don't think they can let Masterson make another start -- as someone else pointed out above, unlike Miley, there is something not-right with him that is visible to the naked eye, and unlike Kelly, it doesn't feel like letting him work it out on the mound is going to be productive.  He's either hurt, or his previous injuries have his mechanics well out of whack.  I wouldn't be surprised if they can find enough to justify a DL stint and some quiet time with Carl Willis off the 25-man roster.
 
I'm for Wright as his replacement.  I want to see if he can be an asset, and I don't think Rodriguez is ready to be thrown into the fire.  This team's trajectory is clearly not "one stud pitcher away from the postseason," and I'd rather not miss the opportunity to see if Wright can be a starter (he's out of options next year).

 

[joe dokes]

 
It's EdRod's day to pitch down in the 'Bucket.
 
The best thing to do IMO, would be to option Wright in a paper move and fly in EdRod to be the long man today, and then recall Wright tomorrow (who would never have needed to report to AAA) for the start of the Seattle series once Masterson's on the DL.
 
If there's no medical findings that would justify a 15-day rest (unlikely), then just slot EdRod into the rotation and use Masterson as the long man.  But either way, EdRod has to start in place of Masterson on Sunday.

 
As recently as last year Rodriguez was pretty bad at AA, only turning it around in his last 6 starts and then continuing for 5 at AAA this year.  I suppose they could go with the hot hand, but I think the Sox might want him to get more AAA time.  I think Wright will get the next start.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
It's EdRod's day to pitch down in the 'Bucket.
 
The best thing to do IMO, would be to option Wright in a paper move and fly in EdRod to be the long man today, and then recall Wright tomorrow (who would never have needed to report to AAA) for the start of the Seattle series once Masterson's on the DL.
 
If there's no medical findings that would justify a 15-day rest (unlikely), then just slot EdRod into the rotation and use Masterson as the long man.  But either way, EdRod has to start in place of Masterson on Sunday.

 
So, wake him in the middle of the night (presuming the decision is made immediately after the game last night, ~1am EDT), fly him across the country to sit in the pen during an afternoon game (presuming he arrives at the park in time), then send him back if he's not needed?  Yikes.
 
Barring an immediate trip to the DL for Masterson, I don't think they'll make any roster moves today.  If a move is made and a pitcher is called up, that pitcher meets them in Seattle.  Today, if Miley implodes, it's an all hands (other than Wright) on deck game from the bullpen.  That's the benefit of Wright taking the long man's role last night and finishing the game.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

 
$9.5M for a one-year commitment to a 30-year-old starting pitcher is certainly inexpensive.

 
For one who is league average?  Absolutely.
 
For Rusty, the way he's pitched?

 

[TheoShmeo]

If he's hurt, DL him.
 
If he's not hurt, send him to the pen...for mop up duty when one of the other drag ass starters gets blown up until he shows he can do something other than throw meat balls. 

 

[Rovin Romine]

They won't DFA him yet. I'd guess a DL stint ("because someone has to be hurt") and when rehabbing in Pawtucket it'll be out of the pen to see if the results are better. 

 
I suspect Masterson would go along with this - he's on a make-good contract.  Pitching through a lingering injury is only going to hurt his career opportunities.  A much better option is the DL, followed by low leverage ROOGY/long man in the pen (to show he can still deal with ML hitters), and maybe a transition back into the rotation later in the season.  

 

[rembrat]

Just to clarify, Justin has options left, right? If so, and if he was willing to accept the reassignment, I'd rather he get a shot at figuring things out in AAA. Whether as a starter or a late game reliever that's up to the FO to decide but $10MM for a long man is a poor use of resources.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Just to clarify, Justin has options left, right? If so, and if he was willing to accept the reassignment, I'd rather he get a shot at figuring things out in AAA. Whether as a starter or a late game reliever that's up to the FO to decide but $10MM for a long man is a poor use of resources.

 
He has no options left.

 

[rembrat]

 
He has no options left.

 
Unless I'm missing something the Sox promoted him in 2008 and he remained in the major leagues until he was traded away the following year. The Indians too never exercised the right to option him down. Finally, unless I'm understanding the rules wrong, he has options left but because of his 6 years of ML service team he can refuse assignment. What happens to his contract then I have no idea but I think I'm in the right, right?

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
Unless I'm missing something the Sox promoted him in 2008 and he remained in the major leagues until he was traded away the following year. The Indians too never exercised the right to option him down. Finally, unless I'm understanding the rules wrong, he has options left but because of his 6 years of ML service team he can refuse assignment. What happens to his contract then I have no idea but I think I'm in the right, right?

Just going by soxprospects.com which shows him having zero options.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

 
So, wake him in the middle of the night (presuming the decision is made immediately after the game last night, ~1am EDT), fly him across the country to sit in the pen during an afternoon game (presuming he arrives at the park in time), then send him back if he's not needed?  Yikes.
 
Barring an immediate trip to the DL for Masterson, I don't think they'll make any roster moves today.  If a move is made and a pitcher is called up, that pitcher meets them in Seattle.  Today, if Miley implodes, it's an all hands (other than Wright) on deck game from the bullpen.  That's the benefit of Wright taking the long man's role last night and finishing the game.

 
Nah, that wasn't what I had in mind at all.
 
More like this: wake up EdRod in the early morning, fly him express such the time change allows his East-West flight to reach the Bay Area in time for the game, and then keep him on the 25-man regardless what they do with Masterson, so that he can make the Sunday start in Seattle.
 
EdRod's a better pitcher than Wright or Masterson at this moment in time.  There's not a single good reason he shouldn't be taking Wright's spot on the roster, at least.  Especially when neither Wright nor Masterson are available to pitch until Friday at the earliest.

 

[rembrat]

Just going by soxprospects.com which shows him having zero options.

 
I'm sorry for this tangent but I'm going to need someone to explain this to me. He was promoted in 2008 and the next time he saw the minors was during a rehab stint in 2014. 

 

[Green Monster]

Either he's hurt and it's to the DL, or he just switches spots with Wright, figuring it out in no-leverage long relief spots.

IMO, Barnes was recently moved to the pen, has been effective in that role, and shouldn't be jerked around. Wright needs to remain in the pen as the long man as the other four starters have only been marginally better in terms of pitching deep into games. Also, if Masterson is not going to be able to get anyone out, then I don't see the case for putting him in the pen. Put him on the DL and let him see if he has anything left while on a rehab assignment. Whoever they feel is most ready between Owens, Rodriquez, and Johnson should get the shot.

 

[bellowthecat]

 
I'm sorry for this tangent but I'm going to need someone to explain this to me. He was promoted in 2008 and the next time he saw the minors was during a rehab stint in 2014. 

 
I did some digging and I cannot figure it out either.  I know that even if he did have options remaining he would need to consent because he's been in the majors for so long, but I just cannot find any information on what happened to his options after they used the one in 2008.  Anybody else have any ideas?  Do they disappear if you pass 5 years service time and become a free agent?

 

[Max Power]

Yes. Unused option years are irrelevant after a player has 5 years of major league service time. After that, they can refuse a minor league assignment and either stay on the roster or be granted their release. He gets his full salary from the Red Sox either way.

 

[AB in DC]

 
$9.5M for a one-year commitment to a 30-year-old starting pitcher is certainly inexpensive.

 
Seems a bit high compared to past reclamation projects. 
 
I'm struggling to remember examples, though. 

 

[Bigpupp]

 
I did some digging and I cannot figure it out either.  I know that even if he did have options remaining he would need to consent because he's been in the majors for so long, but I just cannot find any information on what happened to his options after they used the one in 2008.  Anybody else have any ideas?  Do they disappear if you pass 5 years service time and become a free agent?

The options never go away. This is why the Sox were able to option Stephen Drew after they signed him last year. My guess is that because you have to have the players consent, trying to option trying to the minors is just a worse strategy than trying to DFA them and send them to the minors if they clear waivers. For the player it doesn't really matter because they are getting paid anyway, but for the team they get an open spot on the 40.

 

[joe dokes]

IMO, Barnes was recently moved to the pen, has been effective in that role, and shouldn't be jerked around. Wright needs to remain in the pen as the long man as the other four starters have only been marginally better in terms of pitching deep into games. Also, if Masterson is not going to be able to get anyone out, then I don't see the case for putting him in the pen. Put him on the DL and let him see if he has anything left while on a rehab assignment. Whoever they feel is most ready between Owens, Rodriquez, and Johnson should get the shot.

 
I was also considering the fact that only Rodriguez (among he Owens and Johnson) is on the 40-man.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

It's funny how one part of the board always clamors to bring up the kids at the earliest possible opportunity and then another part kills the Sox (and the kid) when the kid finds out the major league baseball is a lot harder than anyone realises.
 
Not saying whether there is overlap, but the dynamic is there.
 
ERod is the youngest pitcher in the IL and he pitched something like 120 innings last year.  If he's going to help the Sox, he should do it later in the year when the Sox are (hopefully) in playoff contention.  Wright pitched last night and should take on the mound on Sunday.  Besides, given how similar the other starters are, it might be useful to throw a KB pitcher in the mix.

 

[bosockboy]

 
Seems a bit high compared to past reclamation projects. 
 
I'm struggling to remember examples, though. 

Salaries have increased dramatically. 9.5 in 2015 is probably 4 million 7-8 years ago.

 

[Sprowl]

I don't think Masterson is hurt, I think he's cooked. He peaked in 2012 when his release point was higher (ie, less sidearm) and he was throwing mostly fastballs downhill. His control was also better. Now he has reverted to a sidearm slinger, but without the velocity of his earlier years. It's easy to say that he should throw more overhand (ie, from a 10 o'clock angle instead of 9:30, from the catcher's perspective), but as we know from watching pitchers like Josh Beckett, once the arm angle drops for a 30+ pitcher, it's usually impossible to bring it back up. On the bright side, his slider looks better than ever. Instead of being an inexpensive starter, he's an expensive reliever for 1 RHB, an RLR sequence, or long relief.
 

 

[radsoxfan]

I don't think Masterson is hurt, I think he's cooked.

I suppose it's a semantic distinction, but the two are often not mutually exclusive.

If you're cooked at age 30, it's usually because you're hurt (perhaps irrevocably).

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Jason Mastrodonato ‏@JMastrodonato  20s20 seconds ago
Masterson to DL likely. Fatigue.

https://twitter.com/JMastrodonato/status/598545673978392576

 

[foulkehampshire]

 
 
https://twitter.com/JMastrodonato/status/598545673978392576
 

 
Tired of pitching like crap? I would be as well.

 

[WenZink]

Interesting that the announcement of Masterson to the DL coincides with Eduardo Rodriguez being pulled from his AAA start today after just 79 pitches.  It had been reported earlier that Rodriguez would be at his normal pitch limit (up to 100).  But something changed.

 

[radsoxfan]

Shoulder fatigue? General malaise?

Who cares really. DL is the correct call, don't bring him back to the majors unless he shows significantly better stuff in a couple rehab starts.

If not, congrats on your 9.5M retirement package Justin.

 

[alwyn96]

I suppose it's a semantic distinction, but the two are often not mutually exclusive.

If you're cooked at age 30, it's usually because you're hurt (perhaps irrevocably).

 
To take this into even more semantic territory, it depends what 'hurt' means. One of the weird things about physical therapy is that you'll often see pathology (ie, damaged ligaments visible on MRI) without pain, and sometimes you'll also see pain without pathology (pain in the shoulder with no obvious cause that can be determined). In pitchers, sometimes a guy can pitch at a high level for years with serious shoulder damage (and no serious pain), and in other guys that amount of damage will be the end of their productive career. Ultimately what matters is whether a guy can be effective with the amount of shoulder/elbow/whatever he's got left.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Interesting that the announcement of Masterson to the DL coincides with Eduardo Rodriguez being pulled from his AAA start today after just 79 pitches.  It had been reported earlier that Rodriguez would be at his normal pitch limit (up to 100).  But something changed.

 
They're not going to risk starting a prized prospect on three days rest after he throws 79 pitches over 5 innings of work

 

[WenZink]

 
They're not going to risk starting a prized prospect on three days rest after he throws 79 pitches over 5 innings of work

 
Perhaps.  But Kevin Boles had reported earlier that Rodriguez was scheduled to throw his usual 90-100 pitches today, and yet was pulled after 79, even though his line looks good.  So the timing of the two raises speculation.

 

[E5 Yaz]

 
Perhaps.  But Kevin Boles had reported earlier that Rodriguez was scheduled to throw his usual 90-100 pitches today, and yet was pulled after 79, even though his line looks good.  So the timing of the two raises speculation.

 
No, it doesn't.
 

Alex Speier @alexspeier · 24m24 minutes ago


 
With Rodriguez starting today in Pawtucket, he wouldn't be a candidate for Sunday on three days' rest. Wright seems likely choice.

 

[edoug]

Will they get away with it? It couldn't be more blatant. 

 

[alwyn96]

Will they get away with it? It couldn't be more blatant. 

 
Of course they will. I don't think many people are going to argue that there isn't something wrong with a guy throwing 83MPH fastballs.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Will they get away with it? It couldn't be more blatant. 

The DL police aren't particularly vigilant.  He has shoulder fatigue.  It's a slam dunk. 

 

[ToeKneeArmAss]

Dunno if they showed it on the broadcast as I was at the game, but the most telling part of yesterday's horrific start was how Justin walked off the mound. Looked like a zombie - totally and utterly lost. Reminded me of the final days of Daniel Bard. Very sad. Hope he figures something out - I've always liked and rooted for him.

 

[joe dokes]

Dunno if they showed it on the broadcast as I was at the game, but the most telling part of yesterday's horrific start was how Justin walked off the mound. Looked like a zombie - totally and utterly lost. Reminded me of the final days of Daniel Bard. Very sad. Hope he figures something out - I've always liked and rooted for him.

 
I thought of someone else.  I remember reading a piece by Roger Angell (I think) about a MLB shortstop in the 70s. He was in his early 30s. He came to spring training healthy.  In one of his first ST games, he fielded a grounder in the hole. He said he threw it as hard as he had for the previous 10+ years of his professional career, "but the ball just didn't get there as fast" and the runner beat it out.  He wasn't hurt, but his days as a SS were soon over.