Sale said he has cut out junk food/processed foods and has increased his focus on nutrition. Said he would show up on days he pitched with a bag of McDonald's or Taco Bell. "That mixed with better sleeping patters and more hydration has helped me out a lot."
Good. The guy was looking waaay too chunky.Sale cut junk food out of his diet
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1417634243828715520
Oh man, does this post have me excited. A close to 100%, or even revitalized beyond that, Sale returning for the stretch run, with enough in the tank to carry it into October, might just make us the odds on favorite in the AL to go to the WS.Was at the game, sitting in the bleachers right behind home plate, so had a great view.
Sale looked GREAT, not just his stuff, but his body language, general demeanor, etc. From his warm-ups in the outfield to his final walk off the mound and tip of the cap to the crowd, he looked totally relaxed and like he was just having an awesome time. Tons of fist bumps with the Sea Dogs players, joking around with the umps when they had to check his cap and glove, etc.
For his stuff, it was basically unhittable for those guys. One dude swung at a slider that literally bounced in the opposite batter's box. Tons of half swings, weird lunges, and a ton of baffled takes at a slider that was moving like a whiffle ball. He gave up one decent opposite field fly ball that almost made the track, gave up a bouncer over the mound that was probably a hit but they gave the second baseman an error when he bobbled it, and then a few ground balls to the infield.
His velocity did seem to diminish over the outing, though. Park gun showed 97 a couple times in the first, but didn't break 95 after that. Also, he seemed to throw an 88 mph change up a few times that moved sort of like a slider and he missed with in general.
It really seemed like he was working on the slider the most; I'd guess as much as 60 percent offspeed overall.
There were a ton of high fives and what not after the third, so I thought that was going to be it, but then he came out for the fourth and got a couple of more outs until he finished an at-bat with 49 pitches and he was done.
Really fun night at the park. Can't remember the place that electric, even seeing Ortiz, EdRod, and Pedroia all with rehab games there. Only Papi was even close, but he totally wasn't taking it seriously and joked around with the crowd. Sale was mowing pricks down.
I would think that part of it is as MDLTG stated above he's working on certain pitches the way he would in spring training. We all want him here now but we are still one of the best teams in baseball even with Richards 50 pitches.Wondering why if he is at 50 pitches right now, Bloom wouldn't move him to Boston to be at least a 50 pitch "opener" his next time through and then build up another 5 pitches per start until he can legitimately be called a "starter".... It's the difference between 50 Richards pitches and 50 Chris fucking Sale pitches.....
Spring training mode = “dead arm” to push through at some point, right? Better for that to happen in a lower stakes mL environment than MLB.Wondering why if he is at 50 pitches right now, Bloom wouldn't move him to Boston to be at least a 50 pitch "opener" his next time through and then build up another 5 pitches per start until he can legitimately be called a "starter".... It's the difference between 50 Richards pitches and 50 Chris fucking Sale pitches.....
Spring training mode = “dead arm” to push through at some point, right? Better for that to happen in a lower stakes mL environment than MLB.
I would think that part of it is as MDLTG stated above he's working on certain pitches the way he would in spring training. We all want him here now but we are still one of the best teams in baseball even with Richards 50 pitches.
It will never not have been an awful contract IMO. At best he gives them 3.25 years out of a 5 year contract that cost the team $145M. That is > $44M / year. If he is prime Sale for the next 3.25 years then that's not ridiculously bad value. But this season / postseason have little bearing on whether or not it was a good contract. The next 3 years mean everything.So what do we think of the contract if Sale comes back and helps lead us deep into the postseason? I always thought it was an alright deal for a pitcher of Sale's caliber. He was clearly hurt in 2019 and pitching through it. I can't wait to see how much he picks up this roster this season and through 2025. This rotation is just so much different with Sale at the top of it. Now think what he can do to mentor the future 2/3 of our rotation, Houck and Whitlock! 3 aces!
Asking in all seriousness how that is? If he can return and be the equivalent of a Trade Deadline ace added to the rotation and pitch lights out and lead the team to a World Series... that happens on the current contract. Why would have little bearing?It will never not have been an awful contract IMO. At best he gives them 3.25 years out of a 5 year contract that cost the team $145M. That is > $44M / year. If he is prime Sale for the next 3.25 years then that's not ridiculously bad value. But this season / postseason have little bearing on whether or not it was a good contract. The next 3 years mean everything.
Because 1/4 of a season, even if he leads the team to a World Series, isn't worth $145M.Asking in all seriousness how that is? If he can return and be the equivalent of a Trade Deadline ace added to the rotation and pitch lights out and lead the team to a World Series... that happens on the current contract. Why would have little bearing?
That's not true. Because of the 60 game season last year, the team is paying $127m for 3.25 years. That's a little more than Trevor Bauer money (and good luck with that comparison), which isn't terrible. Especially if this year's .25 season is heavily weighted toward contributing in the playoffs.It will never not have been an awful contract IMO. At best he gives them 3.25 years out of a 5 year contract that cost the team $145M. That is > $44M / year. If he is prime Sale for the next 3.25 years then that's not ridiculously bad value. But this season / postseason have little bearing on whether or not it was a good contract. The next 3 years mean everything.
I suspect all things considered a World Series championship is worth more than $145M for a franchise. If what we care about is John Henry's bottom line, and to be clear none of us care about that, I suspect that the incremental value of a win is much higher if it's part of winning a championship, or at least going deep into the playoffs, than if it's just the difference between 87 and 88 wins in the regular season.Because 1/4 of a season, even if he leads the team to a World Series, isn't worth $145M.
If Mookie's hip becomes a long term deal and he is never the same player again, was his contract with the Dodgers worth it?
Sorry, you lost me - are you saying Sale only made $12M last year instead of $30M? Even if that's the case, my point remains the same - if Sale is SALE for the next 3.25 years, the contract becomes palatable. If he is less than that, it's an awful contract, title or no title.That's not true. Because of the 60 game season last year, the team is paying $127m for 3.25 years. That's a little more than Trevor Bauer money (and good luck with that comparison), which isn't terrible. Especially if this year's .25 season is heavily weighted toward contributing in the playoffs.
That's fair. But if the Sox had not inked the extension early, Sale could still have been contributing to this team at a far lower price than $145M. It was horrifically stupid in terms of the timing. That is fact and will never change. Now the question becomes whether he can salvage the contract.I suspect all things considered a World Series championship is worth more than $145M for a franchise. If what we care about is John Henry's bottom line, and to be clear none of us care about that, I suspect that the incremental value of a win is much higher if it's part of winning a championship, or at least going deep into the playoffs, than if it's just the difference between 87 and 88 wins in the regular season.
You're confusing the assumptions of the way these things get calculated with the underlying reality of what we care about and why.
He made $11m instead of $29m for the 60 game schedule. If he comes back in the next few weeks and plays the last 60 games of this season, they've basically just had one year of the contract that they got nothing out of. That seems to be the average for a free agent contract for a pitcher in their 30s.Sorry, you lost me - are you saying Sale only made $12M last year instead of $30M? Even if that's the case, my point remains the same - if Sale is SALE for the next 3.25 years, the contract becomes palatable. If he is less than that, it's an awful contract, title or no title.
Agreed - it just hurts that they have lost the first 1.75 years of the contract when they were only bidding against themselves at the point of the extension. I really, really hope that he comes back and is his old self and we don't have to debate this.He made $11m instead of $29m for the 60 game schedule. If he comes back in the next few weeks and plays the last 60 games of this season, they've basically just had one year of the contract that they got nothing out of. That seems to be the average for a free agent contract for a pitcher in their 30s.
But if the Sox had not inked the extension early, Sale could still have been contributing to this team at a far lower price than $145M. It was horrifically stupid in terms of the timing. That is fact and will never change.
To add further credence to the argument, Dombrowski’s unceremonious departure from the Red Sox speaks volumes about the caliber of the decision to extend a clearly-impaired Sale before the 2019 season for 5 years at a price of $145M.Agreed - it just hurts that they have lost the first 1.75 years of the contract when they were only bidding against themselves at the point of the extension.
Just that?To add further credence to the argument, Dombrowski’s unceremonious departure from the Red Sox speaks volumes about the caliber of the decision to extend a clearly-impaired Sale before the 2019 season for 5 years at a price of $145M.
It’s amazing to me that a person of his wealth would eat McDonald’s/TB, and that’s even before accounting for his profession.Sale cut junk food out of his diet
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1417634243828715520
I'll also add: if Sale feels anything wrong you yank him, no harm no foul (other than his arm), you just have a couple of tired AA guys... Do that in the bigs and you're really taxing your pen for a while.Both of these make sense. Are both pretty obvious too.... thanks
It's not like wealth dictates what you eat, but he wasn't exactly born into his wealth either. Some habits are hard to break. If he was eating McDonalds and Taco Bell in high school and college and the minors, and he still became an All Star MLB pitcher (not to mention probably didn't gain an ounce of fat), what motivation would he have to stop?It’s amazing to me that a person of his wealth would eat McDonald’s/TB, and that’s even before accounting for his profession.
longevity of lifeIt's not like wealth dictates what you eat, but he wasn't exactly born into his wealth either. Some habits are hard to break. If he was eating McDonalds and Taco Bell in high school and college and the minors, and he still became an All Star MLB pitcher (not to mention probably didn't gain an ounce of fat), what motivation would he have to stop?
And that is something that a lot of 20-somethings who haven't faced a whole lot of adversity and resistance in their life give a lot of thought to?longevity of life
He’s in his 30’s now and had some time recently to think. But your point standsAnd that is something that a lot of 20-somethings who haven't faced a whole lot of adversity and resistance in their life give a lot of thought to?
Right. If that's what his diet was before, I worry he will whither away into nothing.It's not like wealth dictates what you eat, but he wasn't exactly born into his wealth either. Some habits are hard to break. If he was eating McDonalds and Taco Bell in high school and college and the minors, and he still became an All Star MLB pitcher (not to mention probably didn't gain an ounce of fat), what motivation would he have to stop?
Yeah, he's older and he's had a major scare to his livelihood. No surprise his perspective has changed.He’s in his 30’s now and had some time recently to think. But your point stands
Speaking as a fan - as unproductive as Sale's extension has been so far, it still doesn't *feel* like the worst Red Sox contract of the past decade and change. The Crawford, Lackey, Sandoval and Ramirez contracts all felt so much worse at the time they were announced and predictably lived down to expectations (even accounting for Lackey's 2013 redemption).To add further credence to the argument, Dombrowski’s unceremonious departure from the Red Sox speaks volumes about the caliber of the decision to extend a clearly-impaired Sale before the 2019 season for 5 years at a price of $145M.
But no longer McDonald's rehashedbrowns.Capacity.....apparently as a vessel into which gripes about the past can be deposited and rehashed.
You aged him one year. He is 32.But no longer McDonald's rehashedbrowns.
Sale's 33 and the major health reservation (TJ) has been hashed out, thankfully in a joke abbreviated year. If he comes back strong for the stretch and post-season, as seems quite possible, this year will be worth every penny. Then we have him for all of 2022.
He can opt out at that point, but if he does not, we have him for 23 and 24 at a slightly reduced salary of $27m. Also for 2025 at $20m (his age 36 season) but only if he finishes in the top 10 for Cy voting in 24.
It's an interesting contract.
Oddly, he did say (correctly) that 2025 would be his age 36 season.You aged him one year. He is 32.
Thanks - fixed.You aged him one year. He is 32.
The sad thing about the Lowell extension is that the Sox probably only offered it hecause he was the MVP of thevWorkd Series and the Phillies overbid them, yet he signed with Boston.I am quite sure we can't judge this contract until it is complete. My recollection is that the clear majority of SoSH thought that on balance the Beckett trade was a good one because of the 2007 title. I was a little skeptical of that perspective but did enjoy 2007.
Anyway, per B-Ref, between 2006 and 2011 the Marlins enjoyed Hanley to the tune of 26.4 WAR and a cost of $24.3M. And Anibal for 12.5 WAR for $6.4M. So 38.9 WAR for around $31 Million.
The Sox ended paying Beckett $51.4 Million from 2006-2011 and got 21.8 WAR, and from 2006-2010 they paid Lowell 55.5M for 10.6 WAR. So 32.4 WAR for around $107 Million. Obviously the Lowell extension was a problem.
The Sox also, from 2006-2011, filled the SS hole opened up by the Hanley trade by paying Gonzalez, Lugo, Scutaro a combined $40.5 Million for 5.9 WAR.
Anyway, we might all look differently at the Sale contract depending on the outcome of a postseason or two.
In 2016-18 he was worth 42 61 and 50 mill of value a year in the regular season per fangraphs, if he gives them 3+ years of prime sale then it ends up being a very good contract. The whole reason he signed for 145m when comparable pitchers were signing for 225-300m was the injuryIt will never not have been an awful contract IMO. At best he gives them 3.25 years out of a 5 year contract that cost the team $145M. That is > $44M / year. If he is prime Sale for the next 3.25 years then that's not ridiculously bad value. But this season / postseason have little bearing on whether or not it was a good contract. The next 3 years mean everything.
It would make sense if wins were fungible. But they're not.So, yes, the Marlins beat out the Red Sox for the WAR/dollar Trophy.
There's a lot of "what if's" that it's obviously impossible to know... but what if the Sox just took the money and paid a free agent pitcher, kept Hanley and Sanchez? Would 2007 have worked out? I never loved Beckett or Lowell but they did come through for a World Series so I'm happy they were here... In an alternative universe (of which actually does exist IMO, since it is infinite, every possible outcome of every moment exists) there is a Red Sox team that didn't win 2007 but won 2008 with Hanley and Sanchez in starring roles.So, yes, the Marlins beat out the Red Sox for the WAR/dollar Trophy. Glad it worked out for them.
More seriously, I agree with the premise that a couple of solid postseasons can go a long way in justifying the value of a large contract.
I feel like some people are secretely expecting the wheels to come off these Red Sox at any point because otherwise the adition of a halfway healthy Chris Sale to a contender at this point in the season is as exciting as it gets. He was already instrumental in winning a championship, if he contributes even a little to a run at another one who cares what his contract is?It is so like this board to celebrate the return of a World Series Hero and potential ace starter with a relitigation of not only his contract but two other guys from fifteen years ago.
Chris Sale is on the way back people, and he still throws gas and unholy breaking stuff.