Wut? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/30/report-jonathan-martin-gone-awol-from-dolphins/
Looks like he took the demotion pretty hard.
Looks like he took the demotion pretty hard.
Rookie hazing & bullying: Miami guard Incognito indefinitely suspended
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
Look at his life up until last year. He was the starting left tackle at Stanford for one of the best college quarterbacks in a generation. He's likely dealing with failure for the first time in his life. All reports during the preseason said Martin was putting his all into trying to be a starting left tackle. He's failed. They've traded for a replacement for him mid-season. He's a smart guy, he likely knows his chances of being a starting LT in the NFL are pretty grim at this point.SeoulSoxFan said:
Not saying that his reaction is justified, but that's likely what he's dealing with.
I doubt that was an isolated incident with Martin.
We may never know for sure, but that sounds like the culmination of something that's built up (combined with the fact he's likely disappointed/frustrated).
I've seen on many other sites where they have suspected Incognito behind some constant teasing.
Either way, this along with the Pouncey news, has made a tough situation even worse and more absurd.
As a kid I would have never believed the Red Sox would be the championship first-class organization that I root for, and it's the Dolphins that can't seem to get anything right and seem "cursed".
We may never know for sure, but that sounds like the culmination of something that's built up (combined with the fact he's likely disappointed/frustrated).
I've seen on many other sites where they have suspected Incognito behind some constant teasing.
Either way, this along with the Pouncey news, has made a tough situation even worse and more absurd.
As a kid I would have never believed the Red Sox would be the championship first-class organization that I root for, and it's the Dolphins that can't seem to get anything right and seem "cursed".
So, he's the smelly kid in the lunch room and nobody wants to sit with him.
That's the price you pay for choosing poor hygiene.
That's the price you pay for choosing poor hygiene.
I'm a big Stanford fan. This is pretty surprising--Martin was supposedly a great, even-keeled, very mature kid. (Interestingly enough Stanford almost lost him to Harvard: he would have been the first ever fourth generation African American alum at Harvard and that was supposedly a pretty big draw).
Martin's failure as a LT is less surprising to me. He had good size and from what I could tell good technique but he was never the kind of athletic freak that most good LTs are.
Martin's failure as a LT is less surprising to me. He had good size and from what I could tell good technique but he was never the kind of athletic freak that most good LTs are.
Maybe his teammates are huge assholes. I mean, we know Cornholio is an enormous asshole. Football players have feelings too.
Ben Volin tweeted yesterday that Martin took a lot of shit as a rookie last year from his teammates and it wore on him. I guess he finally snapped.
RedOctober3829 said:
Offensive lineman are typically amongst the brightest of NFL players, but Martin seems to be the one "geek" within this group. Perhaps feeling like a bit of an outcast and being (overly) sensitive got the best of him. I have always enjoyed his interviews/demeanor; and while he may not be an NFL LT, I think he can be a solid RT.
The NFL doesn't make any sense (especially Thursday night football) -- so I'm picking the Dolphins to win tonight. They're desperate, at home, and the Bengals are rolln' in feeling very good about themselves. This is the perfect let-down game for Cincy.
MarcSullivaFan said:
At halftime of the game, Rappoport said that the rest of the OL invited him to come have lunch and sit with them, and then when he got there and set down his tray, they all got up and left in unison. I guess something close to that has been reported, but I hadn't heard about the getting up and leaving in unison.
That's a pretty bizarre story. This is the NFL, right? Grown men? Not middle school anymore? What the hell? Who does that?
Interesting perspective on this from Chris Cooley, who is a terrific radio host after a solid career with the Redskins. Generally, he said, NFL players don't handle teasing well. Cooley said he had given some thought to this and does not know why, but that's the way it is. Beyond that, you find out really quickly who on the team can handle it, and who can't, and you act accordingly. There was no mocking of the victim by Cooley, no exaggerated NFL machismo.
Now plug incognito into this dynamic and it's no wonder it became combustible.
Now plug incognito into this dynamic and it's no wonder it became combustible.
Not to hijack too much, but Cooley is great on the radio. Sucks at reading copy, however. His "Window Nation" read is beyond awful.
I would imagine being BMOC your entire life, and then getting railed on by teammates, would be a shock to the system.
I would imagine being BMOC your entire life, and then getting railed on by teammates, would be a shock to the system.
That Cooley comment is interesting. I've never heard him speak. Regarding Incognito, has it been fully established or confirmed exactly what he did or how full his role was? I know he's under investigation, but I'm seeing a whole lot of mixed messages coming out about the situation, and at least the Miami Herald is reporting that the team perceives the issue for Martin as deeper than a guy getting all huffy about being pranked too much, and that they would "universally" welcome him back.
I know Incognito is no angel and I'm not necessarily defending him, but I am genuinely curious about what facts are known at this point. (Apparently there are other unidentified divisive issues going on within the team which adds yet another lovely little layer of suck to a team already on the brink of throwing in the towel).
I know Incognito is no angel and I'm not necessarily defending him, but I am genuinely curious about what facts are known at this point. (Apparently there are other unidentified divisive issues going on within the team which adds yet another lovely little layer of suck to a team already on the brink of throwing in the towel).
Adam Beasley from the Miami Herald has some details of what the other divisive issues are on his Twitter feed:
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
I reported last week that there were other issues, with resentments being harbored between other players. It's about this.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
I can now report this: This is a HUGE issue inside the Dolphins' locker room, and not just limited to this situation.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
One young defensive player, whose privacy I'm protecting, has literally gone broke because he's been pressured to pay for older players.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
They've gotten sucked into the Miami lifestyle, and the veterans are using the younger players as an ATM, I'm told.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley25m
Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley22m
When I talked about anger, dysfunction last week, this is what I was referring to. This issue extends far beyond the Martin situation.
He then retweeted a couple of tweets from Jared Odrick and Will Davis from yesterday:
Jared Odrick @JaredOdrick982 Nov
Everything tastes better when rookies pay for it pic.twitter.com/KGaisEfap2
Will Davis @WillieD_effect2 Nov
I just seen a dinner bill for $30,000... WOW #RookieNight
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
I reported last week that there were other issues, with resentments being harbored between other players. It's about this.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
I can now report this: This is a HUGE issue inside the Dolphins' locker room, and not just limited to this situation.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
One young defensive player, whose privacy I'm protecting, has literally gone broke because he's been pressured to pay for older players.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley27m
They've gotten sucked into the Miami lifestyle, and the veterans are using the younger players as an ATM, I'm told.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley25m
Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
Adam Beasley @AdamHBeasley22m
When I talked about anger, dysfunction last week, this is what I was referring to. This issue extends far beyond the Martin situation.
He then retweeted a couple of tweets from Jared Odrick and Will Davis from yesterday:
Jared Odrick @JaredOdrick982 Nov
Everything tastes better when rookies pay for it pic.twitter.com/KGaisEfap2
Will Davis @WillieD_effect2 Nov
I just seen a dinner bill for $30,000... WOW #RookieNight
Richie Incognito reacts to bullying allegations by telling Adam Schefter to "BRING IT" and questioning Schefter's manhood.
IOW, he's anti-violence. And anyone who says differently, he'll put a cap in their ass. (Fear of a Black Hat reference, just to be crystal clear)
IOW, he's anti-violence. And anyone who says differently, he'll put a cap in their ass. (Fear of a Black Hat reference, just to be crystal clear)
Incognito acts like this is totally out of character, but all you had to do was watch Hard Knocks to see him teasing and harassing other players.
It's kind of sad, but the disconnect is probably due to Incognito honestly not believing he did anything wrong. In a locker room full of Alpha Males, some don't realize constant needling could be digging away at the soul of someone who may be more sensitive or isn't in on the joke.
I'd imagine every single one of us here that played the sport on an organized team witnessed something similar. I know I had teammates that acted like Incognito, and their were players like Martin who were different in some way from the "clique" who would usually take the brunt of it.
I hope it all gets sorted out, Martin gets his own head sorted out and he can return to the team.
As for the reports now regarding other players - It's a bit of a leap, but I do question (if the reports are true) if a potential negative environment has itself a negative effect on the rookies. We all know the team doesn't often have rookies that assimilate themselves on the field quickly, is it possible that part of that is they are not allowed to assimilate in the locker room?
Like I said, probably a stretch, but having to put up worth that nonsense really can;t be helping matters.
(And SOXFAN121 wins the Internetz for a Fear of a black hat reference)
It's kind of sad, but the disconnect is probably due to Incognito honestly not believing he did anything wrong. In a locker room full of Alpha Males, some don't realize constant needling could be digging away at the soul of someone who may be more sensitive or isn't in on the joke.
I'd imagine every single one of us here that played the sport on an organized team witnessed something similar. I know I had teammates that acted like Incognito, and their were players like Martin who were different in some way from the "clique" who would usually take the brunt of it.
I hope it all gets sorted out, Martin gets his own head sorted out and he can return to the team.
As for the reports now regarding other players - It's a bit of a leap, but I do question (if the reports are true) if a potential negative environment has itself a negative effect on the rookies. We all know the team doesn't often have rookies that assimilate themselves on the field quickly, is it possible that part of that is they are not allowed to assimilate in the locker room?
Like I said, probably a stretch, but having to put up worth that nonsense really can;t be helping matters.
(And SOXFAN121 wins the Internetz for a Fear of a black hat reference)
rymflaherty said:
As an outsider who is unfamiliar with the NFL culture, both inside and outside the locker room, it's hard for me to differentiate between what's typical, egregious, or flat-out media driven as it pertains to veteran-rookie relations. Is Miami's locker room any more "toxic" for younger players than other teams? The following seems to be the most balanced I've seen thus far:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/03/v-fullstory/3729152/incognito-dolphins-push-back-against.html
Christ - what a shit show if this is true - not just for Martin for anyone else. Using min. making rookies as ATMs are just fucked up. Definition of extortion.
He has now been suspdendedSeoulSoxFan said:
RT @JeffDarlington Richie Incognito was advised by Joe Philbin tonight he has been indefinitely suspended by team while NFL investigates
And now Incognito has been suspended indefinitely by the team, according to multiple tweets.
Ug. Ly.
Ug. Ly.
@nfldraftscout: Garafolo: "Multiple sources told me Martin's camp informed Dolphins and NFLPA that Incognito sent threatening and racially charged texts"
SeoulSoxFan said:
I think this happens a lot in the NFL.
singaporesoxfan said:
If true, this goes way beyond "busting balls". Incognito's career in Miami may be through.
Also, FWIW, here's Incognito's tweets about Martin:
@68INCOGNITO: Shout out to @J_Martin71 for being the biggest weirdo I know (Aug 30)
@68INCOGNITO: We have a surveillance photo of a possible suspect. Kind of looks like @J_Martin71 http://t.co/jsQVARHqND (July 23)
@68INCOGNITO: Shout out to @J_Martin71 for being the biggest weirdo I know (Aug 30)
@68INCOGNITO: We have a surveillance photo of a possible suspect. Kind of looks like @J_Martin71 http://t.co/jsQVARHqND (July 23)
singaporesoxfan said:
I never said it did -- but it does factor into whether or not this is a Dolphins issue ... or an NFL issue. I think it's the latter.
I hope that this doesn't become a distraction going forward. As it was stated in multiple quotes, this isn't really a Miami Dolphins problem, it's an NFL problem. The Dolphins are just the first team to have the issue boil over like this. Also, places like Miami are probably worse than places like Indy or KC. The lifestyle there is so much more extravagant. I remember when Odrick was a rookie someone was interviewing him, and they asked how his rookie year was going, and he said something along the lines of "expensive." There's obviously a culture in the NFL where rookies have to pay their dues. Literally.
Just a couple of years ago, there was a big to-do about Dez Bryant refusing to go along with the rookie BS. http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=5626300
If the allegations are true, this is pretty disappointing from Incognito. There was a piece by Jeff Darlington in the pre-season on how he got his life in order and was able to control his inner demons that nearly ran him out of the NFL. He made his first Pro Bowl last year, and was elected a leader.
Just a couple of years ago, there was a big to-do about Dez Bryant refusing to go along with the rookie BS. http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=5626300
If the allegations are true, this is pretty disappointing from Incognito. There was a piece by Jeff Darlington in the pre-season on how he got his life in order and was able to control his inner demons that nearly ran him out of the NFL. He made his first Pro Bowl last year, and was elected a leader.
I disagree. I hope this IS a big deal so teams are forced to put an end to rookies dropping tens of thousands of dollars of their salaries on this bullshit. These guys end up with enough money problems without having to fund trips to Vegas for assholes like Ritchie Incognito.
sodenj5 said:
It's already a distraction. It's the subject of the halftime "expert" information drop on CBS and NBC. One player is refusing to report to work and another has been suspended. And it will get worse before it gets better. I will be surprised if Philbin keeps his job when all is said and done. The NFLPA and NFL have every incentive here to make an example out of the Dolphins management and Incognito and to make a show of being "tough" on bullying.
Van Everyman said:
Yep. I think it's entirely possible the NFLPA and NFL have found an issue where they can both look good in the PR department while making the Dolphins look very, very bad.
In that sense, this feels like yet another aspect of NFL culture, like Bountygate, that has no place in the Twitter age.
The thing is, even if it is a league wide issue and even if nothing comes of it more than Igcognito being shown the door...this is an organization that is trying to shed the image of being a loser. You have a perennially underperforming team. You just spent a ton of money to see little improvement year over year. You have trouble getting fans to come to your stadium. When you add in players who come off as more interested in partying and bullying than in winning games then I think it is part of the story of a top to bottom culture of being ok with losing.
If you win games, this kind of stuff is easier to sweep under the rug. When you've won more than you've lost once in the past 10 years, it is much much easier to make the off-field problems a story.
If you win games, this kind of stuff is easier to sweep under the rug. When you've won more than you've lost once in the past 10 years, it is much much easier to make the off-field problems a story.
Why would Philbin's job be in jeopardy? He's shown in all accounts to have very little to no tolerance for things of this nature, and Miami has been proactive, is cooperating, and is encouraging the NFL to investigate the matter. How else are they supposed to handle a situation like this? This culture exists all around the NFL, and it appears that as soon as they caught wind that this went beyond the typical hazing that takes place, they took action to put an end to it.soxfan121 said:
I would be absolutely stunned if the NFL took any action against Miami as an organization or against Philbin or Ireland individually.
Unless, of course, information comes to light that Martin went to Philbin or Ireland and they willfully ignored his problems. That would change things, but it doesn't appear to be the case.
Ditka on "Mike and Mike" indicated that he put a stop to similar practices in Chicago.
He and Golic also found fault with Martin's failure to "kick someone's ass."
Lovely.
He and Golic also found fault with Martin's failure to "kick someone's ass."
Lovely.
sodenj5 said:
1. I'm sorry but that is just not true. Miami issued two statements yesterday - the first denying that there was any problem at all, the second suspending Incognito and admitting there might be a problem that needs investigation.
I would like to see evidence of Philbin's "very little tolerance" as it sure looks like he either had no idea some of his players were "dining out" on the rookies and creating a 'hostile work environment' for Martin OR he did know and did nothing to stop it. Either way, Joe Philbin looks bad here. And since he's the Head Coach, he is ultimately responsible what happens in his locker room. As for how Philbin was supposed to handle it - I dunno, maybe DO something about it? And if he was unaware...why was he unaware? Again...this looks bad for Philbin.
As for the contradictory statements and the inaction on "investigating"...again, it really looks like either a coverup or ignorance, neither of which says good things about how Joe Philbin runs his locker room.
The notion that "Miami has been proactive" is a load of bullshit. And now they are cooperating - AFTER it became the subject of the pre-game show roundtables (where ex-players and ex-coaches ALL said Philbin would know and that this type of shit is unacceptable for a team). Go read that first statement again - "Nothing to see here" is written between every line.
2. You may be correct that this is something that happens everywhere in the NFL. But that does not matter at all. What matters is that it has been reported to be happening in Miami. There were undoubtedly other NFL teams engaging in bounty schemes of some sort. Yet, the NFL fixated on New Orleans and punished New Orleans. And New Orleans was punished to make clear to other franchises that they needed to clean up their own problems (if they existed). So while you're probably right that this is an NFL problem, it won't matter. "Bullygate" is Miami's problem.
Further, the NFL & the NFLPA will be on the same side here - the side that comes down harshly on Miami for whatever they find regarding Incognito's behavior. There is a PR issue here and a hot-button societal issue and the Dolphins are about to become the example.
3. Prepare to be stunned. It's coming. Incognito has almost certainly played his last game in the NFL. He almost certainly will be cut loose from the Dolphins as part of the PR efforts and to make Martin "comfortable". Whether Philbin or Ireland are also punished is a more open question but I refer back to my comments under (1) - if Philbin didn't know, WHY didn't he know? And if he did know, WHY didn't he do anything about it?
The contradictory statements will end up hanging Philbin, IMO. He might be a good football coach and I'm sure he'll get a chance to prove that in college a few years down the line. But you only survive this kind of media-driven scandal if you've won a Super Bowl (hi Sean Payton! hi Bill Belichick!). If the Dolphins don't win out and get cleared by the NFL investigation, Philbin's gone.
4. I know why you're saying this but I think you've completely misjudged many of the factors at play here. If it comes out that Philbin knew and did nothing, he'll never work in the NFL again. Unlike Gregg Williams, this issue is a major one in society. Martin, by all accounts, is a good kid from a good home and a good college program who played his tail off for the Dolphins. That his performance was subpar to Dolphin fans will not matter at all in the court of public opinion.
That's the thing you're missing. This isn't a Dolphins locker room issue or even an NFL issue any more. It's an issue that will be debated on Kelly & Michael Strahan and Ellen! and whatever passes for Oprah these days. It's gonna become another big issue for the media and, by extension, for facebook mommies. It will create a "discussion" about bullying in sports (in general), all the way to the youth level. And it will get bigger today and tomorrow and for the next few weeks (unless something else trumps it in the news cycle).
This is a major fucking problem for the NFL and, unfortunately for the Dolphins and Incognito and probably Philbin, its going to get a LOT worse.
This is such an odd story: I have trouble figuring out what kind of threats Incognito could have been making. Is it "pay 15k for the vegas trip or maybe I push a player into your knee/otherwise injure you during a game or practice?" You'd think just a threat of a beat down wouldn't be all that scary or effective on a 325 pound 22 year old.
Without some pretty viscious specific details it's hard for me to get too excited about this story. Bullying sucks, it's probably distruptive to an NFL team but come on, but we're going way down the road of wussiness if pro athletes need league protection so their feelings don't get hurt.
Without some pretty viscious specific details it's hard for me to get too excited about this story. Bullying sucks, it's probably distruptive to an NFL team but come on, but we're going way down the road of wussiness if pro athletes need league protection so their feelings don't get hurt.
This sucks on so many levels it makes my head spin.
- On a personal level. Apparently Cognito's dickishness has not been cured, despite recent positive media coverage to the contrary. On the flip side, a sensitive but presumably decent young player is now forced to go through hell as the entire country debates whether or not he's a pussy, and as he wonders if his livelihood is now in jeopardy.
- On a PR level. This team could not possibly have handled this worse, and it's just the latest example of PR ineptitude of several in recent years (the Pouncey comments after the Hernandez arrest being another example this year).
- On a team chemistry level. It looks like the locker room is a mess, and if it's as bad as some are reporting, I don't trust Philbin to right the ship. As this team teeters the precipice of contending for a playoff spot, the last thing they need is anything that might distract them. Too late.
- On a team performance level. And oh by the way, two of their "best" offensive lineman on a line that is among the league's worst are now totally out of commission. I'm no expert, but that seems bad.
sodenj5 said:
You think that just because it happens elsewhere, the NFL shouldn't make an example of the Dolphins because the media made a big deal about this instance with some damning evidence?
Saints and Pats fans think this is a cute sentiment, but entirely out of character for the NFL they know.
If this plays out anything like the last few NFL "scandals", it will be a prolonged reveal of details, a slowly boiling cauldron of shit, that eventually winds up with heavy-handed punishment in order to make an example of a situation and prove that the NFL has stamped out the issue. They let it roil until overreaction from the league feels like catharsis, and fans can move on feeling like the problem will never happen again.
Incognito's father is getting in on the Martin bashing:
http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230
http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230
Apples, trees, etc.
The rage directed at Ireland (who gave Incognito a chance when there was little interest in his worthless punk ass, and then re-signed him) speaks to a really rational mind.
The rage directed at Ireland (who gave Incognito a chance when there was little interest in his worthless punk ass, and then re-signed him) speaks to a really rational mind.
soxfan121 said:
No fucking way. Teams like Dallas, Oakland or Pittsburgh, which have seen their offensive lines decimated by injury, are really hoping Miami cuts Incognito. He is a pro bowl guard in a league with several teams desperate for healthy offensive linemen. Vilma, Vick, Aldon Smith and Reilly Cooper are all recent and/or famous examples of the fact that being able to play in the NFL will get you on a team, regardless of how much of an asshole you are. Sending hateful texts and picking on a sensitive young player isn't really much relative to the sins of Vick or Smith, so it is hard to see how Incognito won't be able to find a job. This will cost him money, and perhaps even a suspension, but he is likely getting free agency and his choice of 4 or 5 teams out of this.
If he was cut tomorrow and suspended for 4 games by the league, he would have no fewer than 4 offers just to play the last 4 games this year.
If Cornholio actually threatened Martin with physical harm if he didn't cough up the $15,000, he could be looking at a felony extortion charge.
I'm sure there is some hazing/ball-busting/bullying in every NFL locker room, but I imagine that a lot of this is self-policed in teams with real leadership before it gets totally out of hand. If this jackass is the leader of your team, you have problems.
I'm sure there is some hazing/ball-busting/bullying in every NFL locker room, but I imagine that a lot of this is self-policed in teams with real leadership before it gets totally out of hand. If this jackass is the leader of your team, you have problems.
For those referencing New England and New Orleans as examples, I think there's a large difference between the two and Miami. New England chose to ignore the league issued warning regarding their practice, got caught, and was punished. New Orleans was running a bounty system that everyone, including the head coach, was involved in, and then took steps to cover it up.
Like I said, unless more details come to light, if neither Philbin or Ireland was aware of what Incognito was doing, it may not look good on them, but there doesn't appear to be any willful negligence on their part, which I think is why it's a different case than either New England or New Orleans.
Like I said, unless more details come to light, if neither Philbin or Ireland was aware of what Incognito was doing, it may not look good on them, but there doesn't appear to be any willful negligence on their part, which I think is why it's a different case than either New England or New Orleans.
Your conclusion is predicated on Ireland and Philbin knowing nothing. It's pretty clear by all ex player reports that they are and were well aware of these things happening.
How do you know the league did not or doesn't warn teams about these practices? I'm betting they do, especially after the Dez Bryant stuff from 3 years ago.
How do you know the league did not or doesn't warn teams about these practices? I'm betting they do, especially after the Dez Bryant stuff from 3 years ago.
At any rate, in reference to the "everybody does it" bit of the rookie picking up tabs, I've seen multiple former NFL players interviewed or reached for comment today saying that while it is a thing, the scale of this is through the roof. Most seem to be $500-$1,000 dinners, or something, or if its something on the 15 scale, it's a team thing and all of the rookies have to split it. I imagine Jared Odrick's thing was something in that nature. Richie Incognito's does not seem to be. That's where a lot of the disconnect seems to be, financially.
Pretty sure that I qualified my response with "unless more details come to light."Dogman2 said:
Based on the reaction that the organization has taken, my gut feeling is they knew some form of hazing was taking place, but had no idea that Incognito had taken it to that extent until Martin left the team and his representatives subsequently released the texts and voice mails that Martin had on his phone to them.
Again, if it comes out that Philbin or Ireland knew about this, and chose to ignore it or attempted to cover it up, then they should be rightfully punished.
The point of bringing up the Pats and Saints is that the NFL does not allow you to play the "but everyone was doing it" card when it comes to this kind of stuff. There are differences in all three situations, but if the NFL determines that there is culpability for Philbin and/or Ireland, the fact that this stuff happens in other organizations is not going to save them from being disciplined.
soxfan121 said:
It seems as though that after the Dolphins released their first statement, Martin's parents came forth with the racially charged texts/voicemails from Incognito. Once that evidence was revealed, Miami changed its tune, and Richie was suspended indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team. Without this evidence, the NFLPA would have been all over Miami's ass for suspending Incognito.
I have a friend who coaches in California and is friendly with Martin's circle. He texted me the following recently:
"Jon went to one of the top private schools in LA. He didn't play football every year there, and when he grew into a monster, they got him out. He was pretty soft, though. Then he did really well in his senior year, and Stanford offered. The coaches were concerned about whether or not he'd be tough enough to make it, but he blossomed. It seems like he's reverting back to that awkward kid with whatever's going on. I'm told he's over the bullshit. He doesn't like Miami's lifestyle or team culture. He's always been a little nerdy and different."
Speaking of Incognito playing his last down in the NFL, I wonder if the same can be said for Martin.
mascho said:
The portions of Mike & Mike I heard this morning were infuriating.
Their attempts to rationalize "hazing" and harassment....But only to a certain point, were ridiculous.
I understand some of it is accepted as part of the "culture", I've seen and experienced similar things while playing sports, but what I don't understand is how Golic, Greenberg and Jaws could fail to see that even the tamer examples could bother someone. It's like they completely dismissed that they could cause any mental distress.