Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins

sodenj5 · Apr 3, 2013

Someone tweeted to Tannehill that Brady and Amendola are already working. Tannehill responds:

"Been having throwing session w my wideouts for weeks now."

Ed Hillel · Apr 3, 2013

Mystic Merlin said:
Must be a fun offseason for Bills and Jets fans.

Well, you can't expect the Bills to win two offseasons in a row, can you?

dwainw · Apr 13, 2013

Ireland talking the talk, as you'd expect, about trading up. Hopefully it's typical pre-draft strategery, what with this class having no clear-cut, elite players at the top. It's hard to see any maneuvering that can trump the luxury they have in number of picks this year. Quantity over quality, I always say. Not really, but with more of the "value" being identified further down the board, this year that approach seems to apply.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-draft-0412-20130411,0,917291.story

dwainw · Apr 13, 2013

pdaj said:
Ireland has been in "all in" mode since FA, and he may not want to bring in 11 new players to an already very young team. The Dolphins have a couple needs they must address, so I'd be fine if Miami were to trade up to get their guy. As it's been mentioned all over, I could see Ireland moving up in the 1st in order get one of the top three tackles.

You're probably right--maybe I'm too easily distracted by the lack of notable playmakers. I also can't shake this increasingly nagging anxiety as the draft approaches that pick #1 will turn into a pumpkin and set the stage for a huge letdown. Hence the hope that they'll guard their hoard and increase their odds of cashing them in for a few hidden gems. Illogical and unreasonable, perhaps, but hey, I'm a Dolphins fan.

CaptainLaddie · Apr 13, 2013

sodenj5 said:
Someone tweeted to Tannehill that Brady and Amendola are already working. Tannehill responds:

"Been having throwing session w my wideouts for weeks now."

In fairness, Tannehill actually had wideouts to throw to.

sodenj5 · Apr 13, 2013

dwainw said:
You're probably right--maybe I'm too easily distracted by the lack of notable playmakers. I also can't shake this increasingly nagging anxiety as the draft approaches that pick #1 will turn into a pumpkin and set the stage for a huge letdown. Hence the hope that they'll guard their hoard and increase their odds of cashing them in for a few hidden gems. Illogical and unreasonable, perhaps, but hey, I'm a Dolphins fan.

I wouldn't complain if Ireland went with one of the top 3 tackles or one of the 2 elite guards.

dwainw · Apr 13, 2013

sodenj5 said:
I wouldn't complain if Ireland went with one of the top 3 tackles or one of the 2 elite guards.

But, but, what if he doesn't pan out........? OK, deep breaths...... This is one of the reasons I check in here. Voices of reason. I don't always find them inside my head.

Seriously, though, this will be the closest I've followed the draft in years. I'd appreciate some foresight from the informed: What do folks think would be a reasonable trade-up for the Dolphins this year?

Super Nomario · Apr 13, 2013

The problem is that the Dolphins probably can't move up enough to grab Fisher or Joeckel, so they're probably looking at Lane Johnson. Johnson is the best athlete of the three of them, but he's the least sure thing; he was a QB in HS, a TE as a freshman, a RT the past couple seasons, and only moved to LT this year. He's got the physical tools to play LT but some think he'd be better on the right side, at least initially. He's a talented prospect but I'm not sure you'd want to plug him in at the blind side right off the bat. Since the Dolphins seem to be all-in this year, I would think Warmack or Cooper would make more sense.

soxfan121 · Apr 13, 2013

It's possible that the Dolphins could end up with both Menelik Watson and Chance Warmack...but I doubt it, as Ireland seems to be in "save my job" mode and trading DOWN and then back UP is far too risky for a guy with job security concerns. He'll probably go up to get Johnson. I doubt Johnson is ever as good a pro as Warmack or Cooper (and neither do many experts) but for some reason drafting a LT in the top 10 is essential (it's not) and drafting a guard in the first round is questionable (it's not either).

The Dolphins pick might be coveted if Tavon Austin is available (jump ahead of the Rams, or maybe the Rams) and as long as they don't drop past 20, they can get either Warmack or Cooper. With the extra pick(s) acquired, they could swap some of their 2s and 3s to the Patriots and nab Menelik Watson or DJ Fluker at 29.

Or they could package 12, a 2 and a 3 and jump up to 6 (ahead of the Cards) for Johnson. Unless they give up 12 and both 2s, I don't think they can get into the top 4 and Fisher/Joeckel will be gone by then.

There's a big gap between Fisher/Joeckel and Johnson. Johnson isn't that far ahead of Watson who's not that far ahead of Fluker. And I think both guards are better prospects than Johnson (for reasons SN explained above). (and to be clear - Johnson's probably going to be good or at least OK...I just don't think he's worth reaching for or trading up for).

Super Nomario · Apr 13, 2013

soxfan121 said:
It's possible that the Dolphins could end up with both Menelik Watson and Chance Warmack...but I doubt it, as Ireland seems to be in "save my job" mode and trading DOWN and then back UP is far too risky for a guy with job security concerns.

The "trade back then trade up" move is a Belichick favorite.

soxfan121 said:
He'll probably go up to get Johnson. I doubt Johnson is ever as good a pro as Warmack or Cooper (and neither do many experts) but for some reason drafting a LT in the top 10 is essential (it's not) and drafting a guard in the first round is questionable (it's not either).

This is a debatable point in the abstract. In the concrete, Miami got passable guard play but lousy tackle play last year, especially after Long got hurt. And Long's gone now.

soxfan121 said:
There's a big gap between Fisher/Joeckel and Johnson. Johnson isn't that far ahead of Watson who's not that far ahead of Fluker. And I think both guards are better prospects than Johnson (for reasons SN explained above). (and to be clear - Johnson's probably going to be good or at least OK...I just don't think he's worth reaching for or trading up for).

It seems like you're assuming they're drafting an RT, but I'm not sure Martin's ready to play LT. If they need an LT, Fluker's not an option - he's a huge road-grader who struggles a bit in pass protection and might end up moving to G. Watson, like Johnson, has the athleticism to theoretically play LT, but he didn't at FSU and has even less NCAA experience than Johnson. If they're looking for a LT, Johnson's clearly the best bet.

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

I believe in Jonathan Martin. Or, finding out if Jonathan Martin is the guy. Upgrading two spots on the line and having to replace Martin next year, if he sucks, is the right long term move. A pro bowl or all pro caliber guard and a dependable, above-average RT would help them immensely for the next four years.

If Martin really sucks, you shift Watson or put Will Yeatman (do they still have Yeatman?) over there to cover his worthless ass.

SMU_Sox · Apr 14, 2013

Martin looked really bad last year. Both Ben Muth from Football Outsiders and PFF observed the same thing. He should be on a short leash pending they get tackle depth.

Super Nomario · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
I believe in Jonathan Martin. Or, finding out if Jonathan Martin is the guy. Upgrading two spots on the line and having to replace Martin next year, if he sucks, is the right long term move. A pro bowl or all pro caliber guard and a dependable, above-average RT would help them immensely for the next four years.

"Dependable, above-average" RT is DJ Fluker. Menelik Watson is a wild card. Martin / Watson as a tackle pair is a potential disaster. What they really need is a veteran swing tackle to provide some stability.

soxfan121 said:
If Martin really sucks, you shift Watson or put Will Yeatman (do they still have Yeatman?) over there to cover his worthless ass.

They do have Yeatman, but he's played all of one snap at tackle.

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

Super Nomario said:
"Dependable, above-average" RT is DJ Fluker. Menelik Watson is a wild card. Martin / Watson as a tackle pair is a potential disaster. What they really need is a veteran swing tackle to provide some stability.

They do have Yeatman, but he's played all of one snap at tackle.

I meant Yeatman as a blocking TE who could cover Martin's potentially worthless ass.

Veteran swing tackle = Eric Winston?

Clears Cleaver · Apr 14, 2013

I doubt they take a guard in the first round, especially after signing Louis (even if he is hurt). OG is just not an important enough position to spend a top 12 pick on. If they stay at 12 its to take a OT, CB, pass rusher or skill player.

I agree that they wont keep 11 picks, but teh right thing to do is trade surplus in the 4th+ rounds for picks in 2014 draft. While they have more depth now than in past couple years, they are still not a "deep" team, especially at DL and DB

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

Clears Cleaver said:
I doubt they take a guard in the first round, especially after signing Louis (even if he is hurt). OG is just not an important enough position to spend a top 12 pick on. If they stay at 12 its to take a OT, CB, pass rusher or skill player.

You are flat out wrong. The goal of the draft is to add the best possible players to your team. Almost universally, Warmack and/or Cooper are viewed as potential all-pros. All-pros at any position are important. If the Dolphins had Gene Upshaw and John Hannah at guard, they could pass on an all-pro caliber guard in favor of a tackle who will be good but not great. To the best of my knowledge, the Dolphins are not currently fielding Upshaw & Hannah at guard. They got Lance Louis, who's been part of the most atrocious offensive line (as a unit) over the past few years, is injured and rates out poorly by just about any measure - despite the aqua-colored "stats" you referenced at the time of his signing (still waiting on that link) and they have Incognito, who is never making the All-Pro team unless all the other teams die in plane crashes.

But whatever...I said I expect Ireland to do the dumb thing and focus on a tackle and apparently, he'll satisfy the fan base when he does it.

Super Nomario · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
You are flat out wrong. The goal of the draft is to add the best possible players to your team. Almost universally, Warmack and/or Cooper are viewed as potential all-pros. All-pros at any position are important. If the Dolphins had Gene Upshaw and John Hannah at guard, they could pass on an all-pro caliber guard in favor of a tackle who will be good but not great.

OK, yeah, but you wouldn't draft an All-Pro K in the first round, right? The impact of a position does matter. As the NFL has become more passing-oriented, the impact of some positions (QB, LT, DE, CB, WR) has increased, while the impact of some others (RB, OG, ILB) has decreased. Offensive tackles (especially left tackles) are drafted higher and paid more because they serve a more critical role in the passing game: they're covering the QB's blindside, they're usually lined up against the opponent's best pass-rusher, and they have less help than the guys inside.

If you want to argue that Warmack and Cooper are such good prospects that their impact figures to exceed those of the LTs available, I think that's a reasonable argument. But you have to acknowledge the positional disparity in terms of value. Need factors in, too: Miami absolutely needs another tackle; Martin's no sure thing, and I don't think they see Garner as a starting option. Meanwhile they have guards. And with the acquisition of Wallace, Miami is presumably planning to throw deep a lot, which further accentuates the importance of good tackles.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Apr 14, 2013

I think it's a reasonable argument that teams have devalued the guard position too much and should be willing to draft them higher. It's worth noting, though, that Warmack and Cooper are not really generational interior OL prospects - really no better than DeCastro, the Pounceys, or Iupati for instance - and those other guys were taken in the late teens or early 20s.

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I think it's a reasonable argument that teams have devalued the guard position too much and should be willing to draft them higher. It's worth noting, though, that Warmack and Cooper are not really generational interior OL prospects - really no better than DeCastro, the Pounceys, or Iupati for instance - and those other guys were taken in the late teens or early 20s.

Warmack is the top rated player in the whole draft according to some (including NFL.com's rankings). He is certainly rated higher as prospect than the guys you listed.

And @ Super Nomario - do I look like Al Davis? Although that's a bit of a disingenuous argument, as both kickers Al drafted in the first round were HOF talents and among the top 30 players in their respective draft classes.

And seriously, the value difference between a potential all-pro guard and a solid, average left tackle is huge. The idea that a potential all-pro guard isn't worth a top 12 pick because he's a guard is ludacrisp.

Super Nomario · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
Warmack is the top rated player in the whole draft according to some (including NFL.com's rankings). He is certainly rated higher as prospect than the guys you listed.

And @ Super Nomario - do I look like Al Davis? Although that's a bit of a disingenuous argument, as both kickers Al drafted in the first round were HOF talents and among the top 30 players in their respective draft classes.

And seriously, the value difference between a potential all-pro guard and a solid, average left tackle is huge. The idea that a potential all-pro guard isn't worth a top 12 pick because he's a guard is ludacrisp.

That's your opinion, but it is not universally shared. Look at our RFP draft - of the first 25 OL taken, 16 were LTs (4 OGs, 4 Cs, 1 RTs). So folks were selecting average LTs when top 3-5 interior guys were still on the board. RFPWP is even more severe - 21 of the first 25 OL taken were LTs, with just 1 G, 1 RT, and 2 Cs. A look at first-rounders taken in the NFL draft tells a similar tale - 6 Cs, 7 Gs, 30 Ts. And no interior lineman has been drafted higher than 16th.

It's obvious that a LT is more valuable than an OG of similar rank / quality (i.e., the 10th-best LT is more valuable than the 10th-best LG). It's also obvious that at some point, a superior G trumps a mediocre T (I think we can all agree the #1 LG is more valuable than the #30 LT). Where any organization or individual draws that line is subjective. In Miami's case, where they have a personnel (passable Gs, lousy Ts) and scheme (deep passing attack) need for better tackle play, it's not at all crazy to me that they'd put a priority on solidifying the tackle position over upgrading the guard position. For a team like the Patriots, who have excellent Ts, Gs on the wrong side of 30, and a short passing game, the equation is different.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
Warmack is the top rated player in the whole draft according to some (including NFL.com's rankings). He is certainly rated higher as prospect than the guys you listed.

It might depend who you ask but I've read plenty of opinions that suggest that Warmack is not as good a prospect as either Iupati or DeCastro. Guys get hyped every year and people forget that the previous year everybody was hyping was somebody else.

I actually think drafting Warmack in the 10-15 range is very defensible - he's an excellent bet to become a very good player. I'm just saying that NFL teams almost never do so and that I'm not convinced its going to happen this year. He's a great guard prospect but similar or better guard prospects were taken later in recent years, albeit in the context of stronger drafts.

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
The Dolphins pick might be coveted if Tavon Austin is available (jump ahead of the Rams, or maybe the Rams) and as long as they don't drop past 20, they can get either Warmack or Cooper. With the extra pick(s) acquired, they could swap some of their 2s and 3s to the Patriots and nab Menelik Watson or DJ Fluker at 29.

I'm like 99% certain that this scenario is better than trading up (and they will have to trade up past San Diego) to get Lane Johnson.

Clears Cleaver · Apr 14, 2013

soxfan121 said:
You are flat out wrong. The goal of the draft is to add the best possible players to your team. Almost universally, Warmack and/or Cooper are viewed as potential all-pros. All-pros at any position are important. If the Dolphins had Gene Upshaw and John Hannah at guard, they could pass on an all-pro caliber guard in favor of a tackle who will be good but not great. To the best of my knowledge, the Dolphins are not currently fielding Upshaw & Hannah at guard. They got Lance Louis, who's been part of the most atrocious offensive line (as a unit) over the past few years, is injured and rates out poorly by just about any measure - despite the aqua-colored "stats" you referenced at the time of his signing (still waiting on that link) and they have Incognito, who is never making the All-Pro team unless all the other teams die in plane crashes.

But whatever...I said I expect Ireland to do the dumb thing and focus on a tackle and apparently, he'll satisfy the fan base when he does it.

There were nine guys who made all pro or pro bowl at guard last year. two, Mankins (32nd) and Iupati (17th), were drafted in the first round, the rest were second, third and fourth rounders. The eight tackles who earned similar honors, seven were drafted in the first round, six in the first 15 picks. only one guy, jermon bushrod, was picked outside the first round, in the 4th by NO. Even the all-pro centers are picked higher (two first rounders, one sixth), on average, than the guards.

doesn't mean warmack and cooper aren't all=pro quality, just means that teams do not vlaue the position as much and quality players can typically be found later in the draft at position than at the other OL positions.

sodenj5 · Apr 14, 2013

The answer to drafting a guard is already on the team. Ireland wasn't afraid to take Mike Pouncey at #15. He has very clearly panned out, and I don't think anyone would consider him a reach or a bad draft pick.

If Cooper or Warmack are high on Ireland's draft board, I have no doubt he'll pull the trigger.

I also think that with all their draft capital, it's very likely Miami will move around on the draft board to get the guys they want.

Edit:While Warmack might be the top guard and possibly one of the top players in the draft, I feel like Cooper is the much better for for the Fins zone blocking scheme. Also, paired with Pouncey, Miami would have two extremely athletic lineman to pull and get out and block on the second level.

soxfan121 · Apr 14, 2013

Clears Cleaver said:
There were nine guys who made all pro or pro bowl at guard last year.

All-Pro is a much higher accomplishment than the Pro Bowl - it doesn't make sense to mix the two. I deliberately used All-Pro to indicate the level of play I was discussing.

Of the four in 2012, half (2/4) were first round picks. Plus half (1/2) the centers were first round picks.

Super Nomario · Apr 14, 2013

Clears Cleaver said:
I doubt they take a guard in the first round, especially after signing Louis (even if he is hurt). OG is just not an important enough position to spend a top 12 pick on. If they stay at 12 its to take a OT, CB, pass rusher or skill player.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I actually think drafting Warmack in the 10-15 range is very defensible - he's an excellent bet to become a very good player. I'm just saying that NFL teams almost never do so and that I'm not convinced its going to happen this year. He's a great guard prospect but similar or better guard prospects were taken later in recent years, albeit in the context of stronger drafts.

The "in the context of stronger drafts" statement is important here. It's not about whether Warmack or Cooper abstractly "deserves" to be in the top 10-15; it's about whether, having seen the first 9-14 players go off the board, the team picking in this year's draft prefers Warmack or Cooper to its other options. The elite talent in this draft is weak; there's arguably no QB or RB that would be a first rounder in a normal year, the WRs projected to go early (Austin and Patterson) are not Julio Jones / A.J. Green guys, and even Joeckel and Fisher look weak compared to the kind of LTs that usually go #1 - they're good prospects, but not Jake Long / Orlando Pace / Jonathan Ogden "All-Pro for 10 years" kind of guys. Either Dion Jordan (44 tackles and 5 sacks) or Sharrif Floyd (46 tackles and 3 sacks) will probably be the first defensive player selected. There are a lot of solid prospects at positions like DT, DE, CB, and WR, but ask different experts their favorites at each of those positions and you're likely to get a few different answers.

In a normal year, Warmack and Cooper probably wouldn't and maybe shouldn't go in the top half of the first round, but the talent at the premium positions is weak. They are arguably the two safest bets to be excellent players, and that has to be weighed against the lesser value of those positions.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Apr 14, 2013

Super Nomario said:
The "in the context of stronger drafts" statement is important here. It's not about whether Warmack or Cooper abstractly "deserves" to be in the top 10-15; it's about whether, having seen the first 9-14 players go off the board, the team picking in
this year's draft prefers Warmack or Cooper to its other options. The elite talent in this draft is weak; there's arguably no QB or RB that would be a first rounder in a normal year, the WRs projected to
go early (Austin and Patterson) are not Julio Jones / A.J. Green guys, and even Joeckel and Fisher look weak compared to the kind of LTs that usually go #1 - they're good prospects, but not
Jake Long / Orlando Pace / Jonathan Ogden "All-Pro for 10 years" kind of guys. Either Dion Jordan (44 tackles and 5 sacks) or Sharrif Floyd (46 tackles and 3 sacks) will probably be the first
defensive player selected. There are a lot of solid prospects at positions like DT, DE, CB, and WR, but ask different experts their favorites at each of those positions and you're likely to get a few
different answers.

In a normal year, Warmack and Cooper probably wouldn't and maybe shouldn't go in the top half of
the first round, but the talent at the premium positions is weak. They are arguably the two safest bets to be excellent players, and that has to be weighed against the lesser value of those
positions.

Yeah, I agree. If there's a year where a guard gets taken at #10, it'll be this year. But it wouldn't be surprising if they don't get picked until the second half of the first round, it wouldn't be an obviously huge mistake if teams pass on these guys, and if they do take someone like Warmack early it won't be because he's a generational guard prospect because he's just not. That's all I'm saying.

Super Nomario · Apr 14, 2013

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Yeah, I agree. If there's a year where a guard gets taken at #10, it'll be this year. But it wouldn't be surprising if they don't get picked until the second half of the first round, it wouldn't be an obviously huge mistake if teams pass on these guys, and if they do take someone like Warmack early it won't be because he's a generational guard prospect because he's just not. That's all I'm saying.

Just to be clear, your position is that Warmack is an excellent guard prospect, just that he's not generational, because every other year there's a dude who's "the best G prospect since Steve Hutchinson." Whoever takes him would be pretty happy with "just" the next Ben Grubbs, Logan Mankins, or Mike Iupati, I imagine.

pdaj said:
Your opinion seems to be based off of your perception of Lane Johnson. Are you an Oklahoma fan? Have you watched him play? I don't ask these questions in jest; I'm genuinely curious. You seem to feel strongly about him. I've read a lot about Johnson since he was identified as a possible Miami target, and many talent evaluators project him to have a very high ceiling.

Johnson had a fantastic Senior Bowl and showcased his freak athleticism at the combine. If you listen to the pro-Johnson fans, he'd fit in perfectly for the Fins.

I think Johnson does have a higher ceiling than Fisher or Joeckel; the problem is, he has a much lower floor. It's risky to pencil him in as a day one starter; it's very risky to pencil him in as a day one starter at LT.

pdaj said:
If I could get my choice of Joeckel, Fisher, or Johnson, it would no doubt be Fisher. He dominated the competition at the college level and is a perfect fit for the zone blocking scheme. But if the Dolphins have to jump to 3 to get him, it'll cost them significantly. Johnson, on the other hand, could be snagged somewhere between 6-10, a much easier spot to move up to.

In a nutshell, that's the appeal of Johnson for Miami fans: you can get probably get him (with a move up), but you probably can't get Fisher or Joeckel.

Todd McShay said:
"If I’m moving up, I’m moving up for a left tackle. That’s just me. Cornerbacks are one of the four key positions. But left tackle is one of the two or three in terms of positional value, in my opinion. If I just invested the No. 8 pick last year in [Ryan] Tannehill and saw the promise I saw from him this past year and lose a Jake Long. ... I don't know. I would be sick to my stomach going into a season with Jonathan Martin as my left tackle if I'm trying to build around [Tannehill]. How many years have we've been looking for a quarterback for Miami? How many years? I feel like it's Groundhogs Day every single year in the draft, saying 'Well, they haven't had a quarterback since Dan Marino.' Now you've got one, so don't screw it up. To me, this is a no-brainer if you're the Dolphins. Give up the pick, move up and go get Lane Johnson, if not Eric Fisher, and lock down that spot."

I 100% agree you should be sick to your stomach going into a season with Jonathan Martin at LT ... but how can you not be sick to your stomach going into a season with Lane Johnson, who has never played a snap in the NFL and only played one collegiate season at LT? Just because LT's your biggest need doesn't mean that you can just grab the top LT on the board and he's going to fill that need from day one.

soxfan121 · Apr 15, 2013

Dan Pompei talked the Mike Munchak (Hall of Fame Guard) about the value of guards.

To get Johnson, the Dolphins have to move ahead of the Cardinals, which is hard because the Lions are also in desperate need of a tackle.

My opinion on Johnson is informed by the massive cost it will take to move up and get him AND the likelihood that the Dolphins could easily move down, tab one of the top 2 guards in the draft AND get a guy like Menelik Watson who has about the same floor as Johnson and 90% of his upside.

As a Patriots fan, I'll be overjoyed if the Dolphins cash in multiple picks to get at Lane Johnson when they could do something much smarter.

mcaqua · Apr 18, 2013

Ireland at it again:

The Kansas City Chiefs have given the Miami Dolphins permission to talk to left tackle Branden Albert to help facilitate a trade for a second-round choice, a source said.

The Dolphins need to play hardball here, especially if KC is taking Luke Joeckel at #1 (as it has been reported). Under those circumstances you would assume KC loses a ton of leverage in the Albert negotiations. From the Dolphins perspective, what is the incentive to get this deal done prior to Thursday?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9185994/miami-dolphins-get-ok-kansas-city-chiefs-talk-branden-albert-source

Super Nomario · Apr 18, 2013

mcaqua said:
Ireland at it again:

The Dolphins need to play hardball here, especially if KC is taking Luke Joeckel at #1 (as it has been reported). Under those circumstances you would assume KC loses a ton of leverage in the Albert negotiations. From the Dolphins perspective, what is the incentive to get this deal done prior to Thursday?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9185994/miami-dolphins-get-ok-kansas-city-chiefs-talk-branden-albert-source

Albert makes a ton more sense than crossing fingers and hoping Jonathan Martin (or Lane Johnson, or Menelik Watson) is the answer.

soxfan121 · Apr 18, 2013

mcaqua said:
Ireland at it again:

The Dolphins need to play hardball here, especially if KC is taking Luke Joeckel at #1 (as it has been reported). Under those circumstances you would assume KC loses a ton of leverage in the Albert negotiations. From the Dolphins perspective, what is the incentive to get this deal done prior to Thursday?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9185994/miami-dolphins-get-ok-kansas-city-chiefs-talk-branden-albert-source

I think you've misunderstood the report. The only reason the Dolphins would be given permission to speak to Albert about a contract is if the terms of trade have already been agreed - in this case, a second round pick.

The only hardball to be played is with Albert's agent and as Super Nomario points out, they can't really do that because it's a bluff (not quite Gobias Industries worst-bluff-ever, but close).

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Apr 18, 2013

Hard to imagine scenarios in which trading a 2nd rounder for the privilege of signing Albert to a big deal is better than just resigning Long in the first place.

soxfan121 · Apr 18, 2013

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Hard to imagine scenarios in which trading a 2nd rounder for the privilege of signing Albert to a big deal is better than just resigning Long in the first place.

Yup. Signing Albert is probably going to cost as much or more than Long.

dwainw · Apr 19, 2013

Interesting schedule this year. Seems fairly balanced.

4 divisional matchups out of the last 5 games. Should be exciting.
2 out of the last 3 at home--I'll take that.
3 prime time games is nice from an exposure standpoint, but I don't care much for them as a practical matter--particularly Thursday night games.
The back to back games v. Atlanta and N.O. in weeks 3 and 4 are gonna be tough and will set the tone for what the team is capable of.
And what's with the Dolphins almost always getting an early bye? Probably not a big deal in the end, but it bugs me. For that and other reasons, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the schedule-makers dingy, sweaty, stale, cigar smoke-filled room (as I continue to imagine it).

Any other thoughts?

Edit: The schedule http://www.miamidolphins.com/team/season-schedule.html

soxfan121 · Apr 19, 2013

1-4 into the BYE would not surprise me; @Browns-@Colts-Falcons-@Saints-Ravens is a rough early schedule.

I also wouldn't be shocked by 4-1 in that stretch but I consider it less likely.

dwainw · Apr 19, 2013

soxfan121 said:
1-4 into the BYE would not surprise me; @Browns-@Colts-Falcons-@Saints-Ravens is a rough early schedule.

I also wouldn't be shocked by 4-1 in that stretch but I consider it less likely.

Agreed. It's a crapshoot. I'd be happy with 3 - 2, and not devastated by 2 - 3. I think the Saints and Ravens are particularly tough to peg. You know, on this date, April 19th.

soxfan121 · Apr 19, 2013

You're no fun.

dwainw · Apr 19, 2013

soxfan121 said:
You're no fun.

Tell me something I don't know. And while we're at it, don't remind my wife.

Clears Cleaver · Apr 20, 2013

I think the key game is the @Indy game. Win that and sets the tone. I think the Saints and Ravens games will be winnable.

Assuming they get a left tackle. And a starting CB. And a pass rusher.

Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins

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