Rethinking Barstool?

cromulence

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The whole moral outrage for clicks (and Barstool’s circle the wagons responses) is all exhausting and unnecessary at this point, for me at least. I prefer to just consume the content and have tried to pare down my twitter follow list to do just that, but it’s unavoidable in some capacity.

And other equivocating bullshit.
I'm sorry to dig this back up when the conversation has passed, but I have to, because it's absolutely pathetic and it's coming from someone with authority on this board. Moral outrage for clicks? You sound like a pissed off Gamergater. You need to be honest with yourself: you read Barstool because you're generally OK with its culture. The way Portnoy behaves doesn't register enough with you to make a difference. You're willing to overlook the disgusting behavior that Barstool and its rabid followers promote and celebrate. Calling the reaction to Barstool "moral outage for clicks" betrays any possible claims that you only enjoy certain writers and try to ignore the rest. Sorry - you have to eat the whole thing.
 

Phragle

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Chaps is a friend of mine, I invited him to be the guest of honor at our birthday ball last year. It is worth checking out his reaction to the hearings this week. Specifically I would listen to his statement at the start of the HiHaters podcast that he does with another former Marine, Kate, who is one of the most entertaining reads on the internet, if you are looking for a perspective quite different from most of us.


My last Sergeant Major (a woman) laughed at me when I said this, but I honestly felt that listening to Kate offer the very unfiltered female NCO perspective on multiple podcasts made me a better leader in that it offered a perspective that old dudes like me often don’t understand or recognize terribly well.
Was Chaps always like this? I've heard he was very serious at one point.

Anyway, yeah they're great. Chaps and Kate are incredibly funny and talented.
 

Dirty Sanchez Forever

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I think Barstool is definitely more your kind of place. It's not gonna fly here.
I assume it’s you who suspended me for other people in this thread being emotionally unhinged. If so, you’re one of the most over-reactive cunts on the internet, aside from the other most over-reactive cunts on the internet populating this thread. Enjoy a lifetime of crying on each other’s shoulders and good riddance.

Good grief.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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So I saw this and was wondering what you guys who read Barstool thought:


TL;DR: Carrabis somehow managed to get himself a ride on one of the Duckboats for the parade, which of course is a lifetime dream for him. He was wearing a barstool shirt, but Portnoy chirped at him via Twitter for not more aggressively promoting Barstool during the parade. To me, this is incredibly petty of Portnoy; the kid got on a Duckboat and is having the time of his life AND was wearing a BS hoodie. Why chirp at him?

I wonder about the relationship between Portnoy and his writers at times.
 
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JCizzle

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So I saw this and was wondering what you guys who read Barstool thought:


TL;DR: Carrabis somehow managed to get himself a ride on one of the Duckboats for the parade, which of course is a lifetime dream for him. He was wearing a barstool shirt, but Portnoy chirped at him via Twitter for not more aggressively promoting Barstool during the parade. To me, this is incredibly petty of Portnoy; the kid got on a Duckboat and is having the time of his life AND was wearing a BS hoodie. Why chirp at him?

I wonder about the relationship between Portnoy and his writers at times.
It's the same thing as the WEEI thread - a work. This 'attack' probably ended up driving far more eyes to their merchandise than some random promotional tweet from Carrabis during the parade that nobody would have paid attention to. I have come to view these companies (to include 98.5 to a lesser extent) as basically the WWE/Kardashians with sports coverage as a side note. Drama drama drama all the time. It's lame.
 

TheShynessClinic

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So I saw this and was wondering what you guys who read Barstool thought:


TL;DR: Carrabis somehow managed to get himself a ride on one of the Duckboats for the parade, which of course is a lifetime dream for him. He was wearing a barstool shirt, but Portnoy chirped at him via Twitter for not more aggressively promoting Barstool during the parade. To me, this is incredibly petty of Portnoy; the kid got on a Duckboat and is having the time of his life AND was wearing a BS hoodie. Why chirp at him?

I wonder about the relationship between Portnoy and his writers at times.
On "The Evening Yak" last night - Big Cat got into Carrabis about this a bit.

His take was - Barstool was founded on out hustling everyone. He said that people like him, and Portnoy, and KFC - they never stop thinking about hustling, about how to make sales, and about how to promote Barstool. And to him (Big Cat) that's what has made Barstool so successful. The people in the company who never miss an opportunity to promote the brand.

Love or Hate Portnoy - it's his work ethic, self-promotion, and penchant for finding and pushing talent that has gotten Barstool where it is. That he wants that same drive out of his employees isn't unfair. I think this is a bit of "in my generation" type stuff from Portnoy, calling out the lazy millennials or whatever - and Carrabis isn't necessarily the person he should have targeted this at, but his overall point of being concerned about complacency in his company is valid.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Carrabis getting hammered with JDM and Devers was fantastic, but part of Portnoy's issue with him was just that, he got hammered. Portnoy famously doesn't drink so that may have prompted the reaction as much as anything else.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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His take was - Barstool was founded on out hustling everyone. He said that people like him, and Portnoy, and KFC - they never stop thinking about hustling, about how to make sales, and about how to promote Barstool. And to him (Big Cat) that's what has made Barstool so successful. The people in the company who never miss an opportunity to promote the brand.
I rolled my eyes at this bullshit so hard that they fell out of my head and are rolling around on the floor.
 

CantKeepmedown

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I think it's one of those situations, like most with Portnoy, where it's so far over the top, it can't be serious, but underneath it all, it kinda is? If that makes any sense?

Everyone who knows who Carrabis is, or recognized him on the boat, knows he works for Barstool. I don't think it was going to make a huge difference if he was up their yelling out Barstool or whatever.

Love or hate Barstool, there's no denying that the teams they cover know who they are and are welcoming to them being a part of celebrations. Portnoy went to the Pat's after party when they beat Seattle, Big Cat was at Jon Lester's house for a private party and actually got down on the field when the Blackhawks threw out the 1st pitch at Wrigley, and now this with Carrabis. It's pretty cool.
 

kenneycb

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I rolled my eyes at this bullshit so hard that they fell out of my head and are rolling around on the floor.
Why has Barstool been so successful then? Big Cat's rationale is fairly cookie cutter for how any successful entrepreneur grows his/her business. It's basically every episode of "How I Built This" packaged into a few sentences.
 

gtg807y

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I'll admit I don't get much exposure to Barstool outside of Chaps and PFT, but I have no idea what that guy's appeal is supposed to be. Is it just that he's the guy who started it all so they all have to suck up to him? Imagine part of your job being to puff up Dave Portnoy.
 

kenneycb

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He's the very outspoken face of a very powerful brand with a very loyal following. He's transformed into a cult of personality.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Why has Barstool been so successful then? Big Cat's rationale is fairly cookie cutter for how any successful entrepreneur grows his/her business. It's basically every episode of "How I Built This" packaged into a few sentences.
When hustlers tell you how hard they're hustling, it always rings hollow to me. YMMV.

Most businesses that fail have people who hustled and worked their ass off. Barstool is no different than the hundreds of other sports/fratboy lifestyle sites that used the Bill Simmons method of targeting a writing style to a particular audience. For some reason, Barstool stuck. Did they work hard? I suppose they did, but I'm sure that there were other reasons why Barstool is popular too.

Assuming that this isn't a work, which is a pretty big assumption to make and not one that I'm willing to do, calling out your employee for not pimping the brand more is low rent. I mean like it was said, Carrabis* was already on the Duckboat (I don't know this for a fact, but I doubt any other media member who does not work for the team was on there) and he was wearing Barstool gear. Not only that, but I would guarantee that a majority of the people on the parade route knows who he is and who he works for.

This would be like John Henry yelling at Dan Shaughnessy to wear a Boston Globe shirt the next time he's on PTI or whatever.

I don't have to stand up for Portnoy, he's knows what he's getting into, but to me it's another example of Portnoy being a prick. There is never an opportunity for Portnoy not to take the low road.

* I'm not even getting into the optics of a media member going on a Duckboat on the team that he covers. I know that objectivity is out the window with him, which is fine I have no problems with that, but it's a little weird.
 

kenneycb

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When hustlers tell you how hard they're hustling, it always rings hollow to me. YMMV.

Most businesses that fail have people who hustled and worked their ass off. Barstool is no different than the hundreds of other sports/fratboy lifestyle sites that used the Bill Simmons method of targeting a writing style to a particular audience. For some reason, Barstool stuck. Did they work hard? I suppose they did, but I'm sure that there were other reasons why Barstool is popular too.
All success is a combination of hard work and luck. Barstool worked their asses off and got lucky. I'm pretty sure Big Cat is fully aware of that. I'm generally confused as to what your point is here unless you want him to acknowledge luck was involved every time Big Cat talks about how Barstool became a successful entity. Which nobody ever does unless explicitly asked.

Assuming that this isn't a work, which is a pretty big assumption to make and not one that I'm willing to do, calling out your employee for not pimping the brand more is low rent. I mean like it was said, Carrabis* was already on the Duckboat (I don't know this for a fact, but I doubt any other media member who does not work for the team was on there) and he was wearing Barstool gear. Not only that, but I would guarantee that a majority of the people on the parade route knows who he is and who he works for.

This would be like John Henry yelling at Dan Shaughnessy to wear a Boston Globe shirt the next time he's on PTI or whatever.

I don't have to stand up for Portnoy, he's knows what he's getting into, but to me it's another example of Portnoy being a prick. There is never an opportunity for Portnoy not to take the low road.

* I'm not even getting into the optics of a media member going on a Duckboat on the team that he covers. I know that objectivity is out the window with him, which is fine I have no problems with that, but it's a little weird.
I don't really care about this part of the saga. Portnoy is a dick. Everyone knows Portnoy is a dick.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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All success is a combination of hard work and luck. Barstool worked their asses off and got lucky. I'm pretty sure Big Cat is fully aware of that. I'm generally confused as to what your point is here unless you want him to acknowledge luck was involved every time Big Cat talks about how Barstool became a successful entity. Which nobody ever does unless explicitly asked.
My point is my first sentence, that should end your confusion.

Everyone that starts something and becomes successful, thinks that they worked their asses off. Who gives a shit.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't care about either Carrabis, Big Cat, Portnoy, Smelly Steve, Dingleberry, Inverted Chest Ian or the rest of the Barstool gang to keep this conversation going. So it's fine.
 

kenneycb

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My point is my first sentence, that should end your confusion.

Everyone that starts something and becomes successful, thinks that they worked their asses off. Who gives a shit.
In a vacuum, nobody. But in the context of what Big Cat was saying, it was a perfectly relevant point that you choose to isolate and shit on because, to you, anything mildly associated with Barstool = Portnoy and his views.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't care about either Carrabis, Big Cat, Portnoy, Smelly Steve, Dingleberry, Inverted Chest Ian or the rest of the Barstool gang to keep this conversation going. So it's fine.
Yet you are one of the more frequent negative voices in here on pretty much everything they do despite gleefully proclaiming to consume none of their content, so something tells me you do.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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In a vacuum, nobody. But in the context of what Big Cat was saying, it was a perfectly relevant point that you choose to isolate and shit on because, to you, anything mildly associated with Barstool = Portnoy and his views.


Yet you are one of the more frequent negative voices in here on pretty much everything they do despite gleefully proclaiming to consume none of their content, so something tells me you do.
Okay. You got me. All day I think about Barstool Sports and how I can take them down through a grass roots campaign of an average of three or four posts per month on a baseball message board. This was my best--and only--plan.

Damn you KenneyCB and the way that you're able to break my carefully planned scheme! DAMN YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!
 

Myt1

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In a vacuum, nobody. But in the context of what Big Cat was saying, it was a perfectly relevant point that you choose to isolate and shit on because, to you, anything mildly associated with Barstool = Portnoy and his views.

Yet you are one of the more frequent negative voices in here on pretty much everything they do despite gleefully proclaiming to consume none of their content, so something tells me you do.
I don’t know who any of these people are, but the person I think is Carrabis was pretty fucking funny about this on Toucher and Rich yesterday or today or I’m just hallucinating again.

“Well, El Presidente needs another pool at his house in Nantucket, so I’m going to shill the merch site.”

I thought he had a very good touch.
 

kenneycb

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Okay. You got me. All day I think about Barstool Sports and how I can take them down through a grass roots campaign of an average of three or four posts per month on a baseball message board. This was my best--and only--plan.

Damn you KenneyCB and the way that you're able to break my carefully planned scheme! DAMN YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!
I’m not trying to do any of the like. Did enjoy the Murray Chass ending to your last post. That said, when anything negative happens you love commenting (and are one of the first) despite never consuming anything of their content. Just calling it how I see it. Basically what TFP said a little while back. We get it. You (and a couple others) hate them and anything associated with them and think anyone who doesn’t fall in line is stupid, crazy, or whatever the correct adjective is that isn’t coming to me now. But keep not giving enough of a shit.
 

teddykgb

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I honestly don’t read their material but this discussion is strange because afaik their site is popular because they swore a lot and got girls to send them attractive pictures for free. This gave them an audience, not some grand intellectual pursuit or even really elbow grease. They’re akin to a bar that hosted a ladies drink free night trying to later claim everyone came for the ambiance?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I honestly don’t read their material but this discussion is strange because afaik their site is popular because they swore a lot and got girls to send them attractive pictures for free. This gave them an audience, not some grand intellectual pursuit or even really elbow grease. They’re akin to a bar that hosted a ladies drink free night trying to later claim everyone came for the ambiance?
They are a little more than that. I don't listen to anything besides PMT but if you told me I had to choose only one bit of sports related media, it would be that podcast without hesitation. Per others here and in meatspace, some of their other podcasts are of a more thoughtful variety as well.

There is no denying that parts of Barstool are misogynistic, tasteless and targeting a certain demographic (bro culture!!!). And Portnoy deserves the ire he gets because he actively courts it for marketing reasons. However some of their content is far more clever than you would expect from a bar that gets popular from a ladies night.
 

JohntheBaptist

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What I find strange is someone spending close to a decade wet-blanketing media discussion on a discussion board. Simmons, ESPN, Barstool, you name it--comment bad, and guess who shows up to wonder why we all care so much and are commenting bad.

"Well don't read it," "you sound jealous," "but that's what makes money," "you seem to like it, actually," "you must just hate him deep down," "boy you come in here talk about it all a lot," "actually they meant to be that way," etc. On, again, a media discussion forum.

Shoulder shrug. Again. And again. And again.

We get it.
 
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Dehere

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They are a little more than that. I don't listen to anything besides PMT but if you told me I had to choose only one bit of sports related media, it would be that podcast without hesitation.
I am by no means an expert on Barstool but it has seemed to me for a while that sooner or later a legacy media company is going to hire Big Cat and PFTC and give them a shot at doing something outside the Barstool brand, and if that happens their cupboard is going to be pretty bare. I'm guessing those guys must hold equity in the company but eventually they're going to see that the value in that equity *is them*. But someone else here may have a better read on their business. To me Barstool is like an indie record label with one incredible band; if someone bigger swoops in and takes that band away, its over.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I am by no means an expert on Barstool but it has seemed to me for a while that sooner or later a legacy media company is going to hire Big Cat and PFTC and give them a shot at doing something outside the Barstool brand, and if that happens their cupboard is going to be pretty bare. I'm guessing those guys must hold equity in the company but eventually they're going to see that the value in that equity *is them*. But someone else here may have a better read on their business. To me Barstool is like an indie record label with one incredible band; if someone bigger swoops in and takes that band away, its over.
Didn't a "legacy" media company (ESPN) already do that (hire Big Cat and PFTC) and basically ran away screaming after one show?
 

barbed wire Bob

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Okay. You got me. All day I think about Barstool Sports and how I can take them down through a grass roots campaign of an average of three or four posts per month on a baseball message board. This was my best--and only--plan.

Damn you KenneyCB and the way that you're able to break my carefully planned scheme! DAMN YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!
The judges were looking for "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
 

Dehere

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Didn't a "legacy" media company (ESPN) already do that (hire Big Cat and PFTC) and basically ran away screaming after one show?
Yes but they hired them to do a show under the Barstool brand. The move IMO would be to extract them from the brand.
 

nattysez

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I think Big Cat has made it clear that he feels like he owes his career (or at least a lot) to Portnoy and has no interest in stabbing him in the back by leaving for a more lucrative offer. Further, I have got to believe that Fox Sports already has made numerous overtures to PFT and Big Cat (unless, I guess, they feel burned by the Katie Nolan experience and don't want to try giving two more cult-favorite millennials a show).

I have to wonder if Barstool at some point decides to create a sub-brand or spin-off company where it can stick guys who are a bit more evolved and which Portnoy doesn't associate with directly. It'd be similar to the way Grantland worked at ESPN -- ESPN at large could still have Skip Bayless barking at the moon and Joe Morgan shitting on analytics while Grantland brought in 538 and served in many ways as the anti-ESPN in terms of having a more thoughtful voice.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think Big Cat has made it clear that he feels like he owes his career (or at least a lot) to Portnoy and has no interest in stabbing him in the back by leaving for a more lucrative offer. Further, I have got to believe that Fox Sports already has made numerous overtures to PFT and Big Cat (unless, I guess, they feel burned by the Katie Nolan experience and don't want to try giving too more cult-favorite millennials a show).

I have to wonder if Barstool at some point decides to create a sub-brand or spin-off company where it can stick guys who are a bit more evolved and which Portnoy doesn't associate with directly. It'd be similar to the way Grantland worked at ESPN -- ESPN at large could still have Skip Bayless barking at the moon and Joe Morgan shitting on analytics while Grantland brought in 538 and served in many ways as the anti-ESPN in terms of having a more thoughtful voice.
Interesting thought about Fox sports. Big Cat and PFT are friendly with Katie. I wonder if her experiences coupled with the Van Talk debacle means that they stay put. The truth is, they are BS's most successful offering and they likely have more latitude to do their thing under that umbrella versus any other established media company.

Clearly, money decides everything but unless the delta between BS and an alternative is huge, I can see them staying put. I think they know it would suck if they went elsewhere, it didn't work and they ended up contractually muzzled like Nolan or Simmons.
 

kenneycb

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What I find strange is someone spending close to a decade wet-blanketing media discussion on a discussion board. Simmons, ESPN, Barstool, you name it--comment bad, and guess who shows up to wonder why we all care so much and are commenting bad.

"Well don't read it," "you sound jealous," "but that's what makes money," "you seem to like it, actually," "you must just hate him deep down," "boy you come in here talk about it all a lot," "actually they meant to be that way," etc. On, again, a media discussion forum.

Shoulder shrug. Again. And again. And again.

We get it.
I think this is aimed at me. I don’t like you. You don’t like me. We have different views. I’m not wet blanketing anything, at least intentionally. When someone says they don’t care yet keep commenting, I’m going to comment. Because that’s inconsistent. I sometimes have different opinions and look at things from different perspectives than some here. Thank you for your ombudsmanship and implied endorsement of suppressing dissenting views.

Now if you can refute or challenge what I say outside of disagreeing because of me and the general subjects, feel free to actually engage. Until then, send me PMs telling me how much you think I’m a dumbass and how you’ve never noticed me in my 10+ years on the board but also have.

To sum: what is your point with this post?
 
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JohntheBaptist

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Oh no it was absolutely aimed at him.

i’m not wet blanketing anything, at least intentionally.
The road to hell and all, right?

Your responses in these threads aren't really discussion, they're bored refutations used as a pretext to turn the act of criticism around on the person doing it. For some reason.

I'll keep it at that, I don't want to suppress any more dissenting viewpoints over here.
 
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kenneycb

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You read too much into my posts. Said differently, what would you prefer I do? Tangible examples always appreciated.

Edit: To explain the above, that’s more of an annoyance I have with posts on this board when people say they don’t care to comment yet keep commenting. Same with people who do the “Edit: not worth it” and try to seem above the fray while making sure everyone knows it. Public displays of hypocrisy or something I suppose.
 
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JohntheBaptist

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You read too much into my posts. Said differently, what would you prefer I do? Tangible examples always appreciated.

Edit: To explain the above, that’s more of an annoyance I have with posts on this board when people say they don’t care to comment yet keep commenting. Same with people who do the “Edit: not worth it” and try to seem above the fray while making sure everyone knows it. Public displays of hypocrisy or something I suppose.
Fair enough. You shouldn't do anything differently, I certainly didn't mean to imply I was demanding you stop anything, just disagreeing with the approach but, ultimately, yeah its just one guy's opinion.

I don't take the criticism offered in this forum as much more than talking through what nags at us as we navigate the places delivering us info on the things we love or are interested in, so I'd rather hear more of it, not less. But you're right, there are many ways of viewing that. I'll try to do better remembering that.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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Eduardo Nunez had an absolutely hilarious interview on the Section 10 podcast (Episode 219, dated November 6). It was really funny. I run hot-cold on Carrabis, but Nunez was laugh-out-loud funny.

Noontime, "why are you always falling down? You're always on the ground!".

Nunez: "Oh... I know. I ask Xander one time... 'I think there's something wrong with me. What's wrong with me?'"

"When you hit the ball [against Wood/the Dodgers], did you think it was a home run?"

Nunez: "I know I hit ball hard... I run fast cuz I try to turn single into double... I see fans hands go up and I yell 'FUCK!!'" *starts giggling*

He was great.
 

kenneycb

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That’s not what he said in his apology at all. Doesn’t make it better but let’s not go around misrepresenting sentences.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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That’s not what he said in his apology at all. Doesn’t make it better but let’s not go around misrepresenting sentences.
It's the standard apology. I'm not a racist, I have black friends/I like black people...it was a bad attempt at a joke. I wasn't misrepresenting anything. He included that the n his apology. This wasn't the first time he made a joke like this, i am sure.
 

kenneycb

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He didn’t claim he wasn’t being racist. He understood it was racist. Very much so. And was sorry. Again, doesn’t make it right but you’re just projecting to what you want to believe is true as evidenced by your last sentence.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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He didn’t claim he wasn’t being racist. He understood it was racist. Very much so. And was sorry. Again, doesn’t make it right but you’re just projecting to what you want to believe is true as evidenced by your last sentence.
He is exercising white privilege at it's finest.
 
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timlinin8th

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Another thing - Joel Embiid IS from Africa (Cameroon). Its not the same as telling random black person to "go back to Africa" not knowing their heritage and it turns out they are a sixth generation American. I get that telling a black man to take things to Africa isn't a smart thing to say on video given American race relations, but to say its intent is automatically racist is jumping to a conclusion that may not necessarily be there. If I play Zdeno Chara in NHL 19 and he whoops my ass and I tell him to take that shit back to Slovakia is that racist?
 

Spelunker

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Another thing - Joel Embiid IS from Africa (Cameroon). Its not the same as telling random black person to "go back to Africa" not knowing their heritage and it turns out they are a sixth generation American. I get that telling a black man to take things to Africa isn't a smart thing to say on video given American race relations, but to say its intent is automatically racist is jumping to a conclusion that may not necessarily be there. If I play Zdeno Chara in NHL 19 and he whoops my ass and I tell him to take that shit back to Slovakia is that racist?
I'm sure that particular nuanced loophole occurred to him in the heat of the moment when he instinctively yelled that out.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Another thing - Joel Embiid IS from Africa (Cameroon). Its not the same as telling random black person to "go back to Africa" not knowing their heritage and it turns out they are a sixth generation American. I get that telling a black man to take things to Africa isn't a smart thing to say on video given American race relations, but to say its intent is automatically racist is jumping to a conclusion that may not necessarily be there. If I play Zdeno Chara in NHL 19 and he whoops my ass and I tell him to take that shit back to Slovakia is that racist?
Hahaha, wait...wtf? You really think that telling someone of color to go back to Africa isn't automatically racist?

#BlackenWasRight