Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

ElcaballitoMVP

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The Sox need to make moves eventually. Whether it starts or ends with Haniger, it's not going to be the only move they make.

Adding him would help deepen the lineup and a RHH is something they kinda need with Devers, Verdugo, Casas, McGuire in the lineup.
 

chawson

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He has the potential to be a Hunter Renfroe-type season if he stays healthy. Good power, decent in the OF(Haniger is better than Renfroe there). But, that's more of a depth signing. There had better be more to Bloom's offseason than adding those types. He did this last year with the pitching staff in terms of getting injury risks and relying on them to stay healthy.
You're dead on with this comp. I'd always considered Haniger a much better player but their batting lines the last two seasons are nearly identical.

HR: .257/.315/.496, 7.6 BB%, 22.9 K%, 12.7 Barrel%, 118 wRC+ in 1094 PA
MH: .251/.316/.470, 7.9 BB%, 24.9 K%, 12.4 Barrel%, 119 wRC+ in 938 PA

Last thing I want to do is relitigate the Renfroe trade but a Haniger signing seems like it would fold into that story.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Do we really care what order the Sox sign guys in? David Ross was the first signing in 12-13, and both that signing and the rest of the offseason went pretty well. Let’s show a little patience and perspective here.

As for Haniger himself, he was worth slightly more bWAR than JDM last year, in about 45% of the games played. He’s younger than JDM, and has a 39 HR/6.5 WAR season on his resume that none of our other current OFs can match. Those wishing they could have brought in the even older Abreu ought to be able to see how Haniger fits and meets needs without squinting too hard. And signing him wouldn’t prevent resigning X and/or getting a good pitcher.
 

chawson

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Do we really care what order the Sox sign guys in? David Ross was the first signing in 12-13, and both that signing and the rest of the offseason went pretty well. Let’s show a little patience and perspective here.

As for Haniger himself, he was worth slightly more bWAR than JDM last year, in about 45% of the games played. He’s younger than JDM, and has a 39 HR/6.5 WAR season on his resume that none of our other current OFs can match. Those wishing they could have brought in the even older Abreu ought to be able to see how Haniger fits and meets needs without squinting too hard. And signing him wouldn’t prevent resigning X and/or getting a good pitcher.
Haniger is the 9th-best bat available by wRC+ (118) according to Steamer projections, behind Judge, Nimmo, Correa, Abreu, Rizzo, Bell, Bogaerts and Turner. He's good!

He's tied for that mark with Willson Contreras, who obviously plays a much more important position. But he's projected to be quite a bit better than Trey Mancini (107 wRC+), a guy who gets a lot of attention here, and JDM himself (109).
 

RedOctober3829

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Do we really care what order the Sox sign guys in? David Ross was the first signing in 12-13, and both that signing and the rest of the offseason went pretty well. Let’s show a little patience and perspective here.

As for Haniger himself, he was worth slightly more bWAR than JDM last year, in about 45% of the games played. He’s younger than JDM, and has a 39 HR/6.5 WAR season on his resume that none of our other current OFs can match. Those wishing they could have brought in the even older Abreu ought to be able to see how Haniger fits and meets needs without squinting too hard. And signing him wouldn’t prevent resigning X and/or getting a good pitcher.
If you're referring to my post, I don't care what order they sign guys because it doesn't work that way. You sign a guy you want when you have the opportunity to do so.
 
I came here to say the exact opposite! I hate the idea of shopping in the 2 WAR aisle. We need to be able to trust in our minor league system or smart under the radar picks to fill out the roster. We should be using the money to bring in players with star power. Are we aiming to win 81 games or trying to win a championship?

Haniger is just another guy in an outfield that already has a bunch of just another guys.
The team built a near WS run in 2021 and won it all in 2013 by shopping in the 2 WAR aisle. Signing players like this doesn't mean you are aiming to win 81 games. I find it interesting that we both take the angle of trusting our minor league system but we reach such different conclusions about what that means for strategy. It sounds like your argument is that we can afford to spend now to prop up the next few years because the talent that arrives from the farm will offset the downside of those contracts when they decline. Whereas I want to keep the books clear for the years when the farm delivers so that we can sign top talent then and combine the upside of our farm with the best years of top FA signings. If we end up with an infield of Mayer, Yorke and Casas with Bello heading up the pitching staff, I want to have the guys that we pay to put up 4-6 wins putting up 4-6 wins in those years. I don't want to be paying guys 4-6 win salaries to put up 2 wins then.

He'd be our Mitchy One-Bags.
OK, now I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't get him.
 

ehaz

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Do we really care what order the Sox sign guys in? David Ross was the first signing in 12-13, and both that signing and the rest of the offseason went pretty well. Let’s show a little patience and perspective here.

As for Haniger himself, he was worth slightly more bWAR than JDM last year, in about 45% of the games played. He’s younger than JDM, and has a 39 HR/6.5 WAR season on his resume that none of our other current OFs can match. Those wishing they could have brought in the even older Abreu ought to be able to see how Haniger fits and meets needs without squinting too hard. And signing him wouldn’t prevent resigning X and/or getting a good pitcher.
I think Haniger is a great fit and if they can sign him around his projected cost (MLBTR is at 3/$39M though I'd prefer 2 years) that's solid value. But I think comparing him in terms of downside risk to Abreu by just looking at their relative ages obscures some of the concerns.

One of Jose Abreu's most valuable qualities is his consistency and ability to just stay on the field. He plays 150+ games every year and has never had any serious injury issues. And while he's old, his numbers don't necessarily suggest a downward trend. Abreu's power outage and batted ball data is just as easily explained by league-wide trends and his general range of outcomes than it is by his age. I don't think it's crazy to view Abreu as a guy with an outlier aging curve like Nelson Cruz, Justin Turner, or (to a much lesser extent) David Ortiz.

Haniger on the other hand, has not shown any evidence that he will buck the traditional aging curve for most good hitters. That doesn't make him a bad or even "worse" signing, especially since he plays RF at a high level, but he's coming off his worst hitting performance since his rookie year while Abreu just posted his career average OPS+ at age 35 in 150+ games. And looking at the games played angle, Haniger's very unreliable.
 

jcormjmac

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Aug 2, 2022
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Hey all he said was that “Something could happen at any minute”. He never said it would be a huge signing. This would definitely fall into the category of “something”.
This was the headline i used when starting the post via MSN- The Boston Red Sox have been very active in the early stages of free agency, and expect to be able to announce new players soon. and nothing that was NOV 17 i started this particular thread because I had heard nothing and know this forum has had great resources and was hopeful those who know more then me have insight -- so I take announcements of "SOON any Minute" as fodder now. Expecting announcement by Jan 1
 

E5 Yaz

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Just curious, but what is FanSided? Are they fan-written blogs written under the SI umbrella, or are these writers legit reporters?
 

nighthob

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Well Dave "When Sale comes back" O'Brien needs someone to talk about during the mid-Season doldrums.
I will say that the Weekly World News reported that Sale was back to throwing from the mound to Batboy and that Bigfoot and Nessie were in attendance.
 

jon abbey

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Just curious, but what is FanSided? Are they fan-written blogs written under the SI umbrella, or are these writers legit reporters?
SI doesn't even have many 'legit reporters' anymore (not joking, they basically fired everyone a few years ago and hired kids instead).
 

buttons

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Jul 18, 2005
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I don’t know about anyone else but I will be greatly disappointed if the team
does not make some big time moves to be a contender in ‘23.
signing up Bogart and Devers is a start but that is just status quo!
we need hitting and pitching to contend and if they are serious they
need to forget about the cap and make it happen. We are pretty solid
at the minor league leveland can afford the penalties this year.
 

ponch73

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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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He's got a career .333/.395/.728 slash line in Fenway in a small sample (45 PA). Sounds like Chaim's Hunter Renfroe 2.0.
I don’t know who wouldn’t be pretty excited. He’s a very good player that fills a hole. I’m 100% certain Bloom isn’t done after (IF) he gets Haniger.
 

joe dokes

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I don’t know about anyone else but I will be greatly disappointed if the team
does not make some big time moves to be a contender in ‘23.
signing up Bogart and Devers is a start but that is just status quo!
we need hitting and pitching to contend and if they are serious they
need to forget about the cap and make it happen. We are pretty solid
at the minor league leveland can afford the penalties this year.
I think its usually better to save the disappointment for when they start to actually lose games. Winter is long enough around here.
 

JBJ_HOF

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SI doesn't even have many 'legit reporters' anymore (not joking, they basically fired everyone a few years ago and hired kids instead).
I would pay money to be able to filter out fansided, SI, nesn, yardbarker, and the like from Google News searches, all trash.
 

mr_smith02

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I don’t know about anyone else but I will be greatly disappointed if the team
does not make some big time moves to be a contender in ‘23.
signing up Bogart and Devers is a start but that is just status quo!
we need hitting and pitching to contend and if they are serious they
need to forget about the cap and make it happen. We are pretty solid
at the minor league leveland can afford the penalties this year.
Signing both Boagerts and Devers would not be status quo and pretending in any way whatsoever that either of them was the reason this team did not win in 2022 is beyond silly...your post doesn't necessarily imply this, but the notion that the front office will stop making moves IF they resign them both is silly too.
 

jon abbey

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Oof. Yeah I don’t want to be on the hook for that contract. I would rather dip into the prospect stock and make a trade.
And no, I don’t have any names in mind. Just… not that.
I think GMs waiting around for bargains this winter might be waiting a long time, lot of teams seem to want to spend.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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I think GMs waiting around for bargains this winter might be waiting a long time, lot of teams seem to want to spend.
If this is the cost of doing business then I definitely would rather blow it up and start over. I’m really not in favor of spending so much money on a player with such an extensive injury history
 

mikcou

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I think GMs waiting around for bargains this winter might be waiting a long time, lot of teams seem to want to spend.
Agree. There's a ton more money coming in from national media deals than there was even 3-5 years ago (and there is going to be even more on the way as they continue to lean into streaming). Player comp is going to go up from that.

If this is the cost of doing business then I definitely would rather blow it up and start over. I’m really not in favor of spending so much money on a player with such an extensive injury history
This has a ton of negative business implications that Id be shocked if Henry was willing to swallow. Bad teams leads to bad NESN ratings leads to less media revenue; not to mention less at the gates. Sometimes you just need to pay market rates for guys.
 

soxhop411

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I get that it's the Rays so they probably didn't spend much, but isn't it weird to call something a good deal without knowing the terms?
View: https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1598468334974107650
Three years, $40M, per


sox offered same as rays apparently
View: https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1598475625387675649
The Boston #RedSox offered the same contract for Eflin, but he lives in nearby Orlando, so #Rays had home-field advantage
 
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John Marzano Olympic Hero

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3/$40 from the Rays? Wow. Starting to seem like the purse strings leaguewide will really be loosened this off-season.
Every MLB team got $30m from Disney on Tuesday thanks to the company buying the rest of MLBAM.

Most teams are signing uniform sponsorship deals like the Sox for eight and nine figures. There’s money pouring into this league and if teams aren’t using it to get better, it’s absolute negligence.
 

ehaz

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Damn I really liked Eflin. That's also way more cash than I thought he would get.

On Haniger--I'd be fine with $15M per year. The 3rd year is really pushing it though for a guy who hasn't been able to stay on the field.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Every time Chaim is after the same players as the Rays I sigh a little inside.

One of these times the Rays' magic won't work on a league average starter like this. Maybe it's this time.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Interesting that the Sox were in on him; wonder if they now move to Eovaldi and get that done? Seems like they’ve even sniffing around on a lot of starters so far; seems like there’s really only room to sign one without a trade.
 

buttons

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Jul 18, 2005
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Signing both Boagerts and Devers would not be status quo and pretending in any way whatsoever that either of them was the reason this team did not win in 2022 is beyond silly...your post doesn't necessarily imply this, but the notion that the front office will stop making moves IF they resign them both is silly too.
Maybe I was not articulate enough. My point was that last year the team that finished last
had both Bogarts and Devers and while losing either or both would make us worse ,keeping them is where we were. I don’t how you got the impression that I in anyway suggested that resigning them was the answer when I was saying that was just the beginning of what I hoped we would accomplish to be a contender.
 

mr_smith02

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Maybe I was not articulate enough. My point was that last year the team that finished last
had both Bogarts and Devers and while losing either or both would make us worse ,keeping them is where we were. I don’t how you got the impression that I in anyway suggested that resigning them was the answer when I was saying that was just the beginning of what I hoped we would accomplish to be a contender.
I guess I don't know how or where you're getting the impression that Bogaerts and Devers would be the only moves the Red Sox will be making. Nothing I have read or seen would lead me to believe for even a second that resigning one or both of these players was all the Red Sox planned for the offseason.

Is it simply because they haven't made any substantial moves yet? I think that kind of concern, based on this team's recent off-season approach, can wait another month or so. Look how late into the offseason they signed Trevor Story last season. Or, how long it took to bring in J.D. Martinez. Patience, Grasshopper.
 

buttons

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Jul 18, 2005
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I guess I don't know how or where you're getting the impression that Bogaerts and Devers would be the only moves the Red Sox will be making. Nothing I have read or seen would lead me to believe for even a second that resigning one or both of these players was all the Red Sox planned for the offseason.

Is it simply because they haven't made any substantial moves yet? I think that kind of concern, based on this team's recent off-season approach, can wait another month or so. Look how late into the offseason they signed Trevor Story last season. Or, how long it took to bring in J.D. Martinez. Patience, Grasshopper.
I have no idea what other moves they will make.What I Said was that I
would be very disappointed if they didn’t make some major moves.
I don’t have a time table as to if or when that could happen.
 

RedOctober3829

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The Red Sox very nearly added to their pitching staff on Thursday.

Zach Eflin, the longtime Phillies starter who ended the season as a key piece of their playoff bullpen, agreed to a three-year, $40-million deal with the Rays. It was the largest free agent contract in Tampa Bay franchise history, and it almost went to the Red Sox.
My understanding is that what transpired is that the Red Sox were the highest bidders, but Eflin is from Florida, and so the Rays were given an opportunity to match. If the Florida club put the same offer on the table, Eflin would sign.

They did, and he did.

The Red Sox were not given an opportunity to raise their bid. They also didn’t know until it the deal was done that the Rays were going to have the final opportunity to match.

And so, another player came off the board.
https://theathletic.com/3959801/2022/12/01/red-sox-zach-eflin-rays/
 

soxhop411

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The Red Sox very nearly added to their pitching staff on Thursday.

Zach Eflin, the longtime Phillies starter who ended the season as a key piece of their playoff bullpen, agreed to a three-year, $40-million deal with the Rays. It was the largest free agent contract in Tampa Bay franchise history, and it almost went to the Red Sox.
My understanding is that what transpired is that the Red Sox were the highest bidders, but Eflin is from Florida, and so the Rays were given an opportunity to match. If the Florida club put the same offer on the table, Eflin would sign.

They did, and he did.

The Red Sox were not given an opportunity to raise their bid. They also didn’t know until it the deal was done that the Rays were going to have the final opportunity to match.

And so, another player came off the board.
https://theathletic.com/3959801/2022/12/01/red-sox-zach-eflin-rays/
So Eflin wanted to pitch in Florida and that was that
yup. That wont stop some in the media for blaming Bloom and the FO though.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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yup. That wont stop some in the media for blaming Bloom and the FO though.
Just the media? j/k

My take away from this is that it confirms that the Sox are still considered a team able and willing to spend if they're being used as leverage by a player that otherwise had no interest in Boston. It just shows that every rumor tying the Sox to a player should be treated cautiously rather than a reason to get excited or upset.
 

moondog80

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The fangraphs blurb mentions the possibility of using Eflin in the bullpen based on how he looked there in the postseason, I wonder what the Sox' plan would have been?