Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

Aug 31, 2006
133
South Acton, Mass.
They also signed Segura when they didn’t need him. There’s definitely something lining up, even if it’s not with the Sox.
Agreed. The Marlins have said that Segura was signed to play third base, which makes no sense when a) he's never spent any meaningful time playing third base and b) they already have Joey Wendle penciled in as a perfectly cromulent third baseman.

What makes a lot more sense is that they signed Segura to play his best position, second base, which would push their most exciting player, Jazz Chisholm, to his natural position at shortstop, which would make incumbent shortstop and free-agent-to-be Miguel Rojas expendable.

I would predict that signing Segura and Cueto are both moves designed to allow the team to trade an infielder and trade a starter, respectively, to bolster other areas of need.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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Also, those are Lopez's numbers while not pitching in the AL East.

I'm with (I think) most people here in not getting more decent/good pitching at the costs being floated. Just find a SS somewhere already.
Right, his numbers probably would have been better in the AL East where the only above-average offenses he'd have faced were the Yankees (113 OPS+) and Blue Jays (116). In the NL East he had to face the Braves (111), Mets (113) and Phillies (107).
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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Didn’t we get Martin and Rodriguez so Whitlock could start?

fake edit: beaten by the Cotillo tweet posted by JM3
 

brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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Yep, at this point I'm on the Andrus train.

2022: 17 hr (which he won't repeat), 103 ops+, 3.1 bWAR

Even if he hits 8 homers, has a 90 ops+, and a 1.0 bWAR, that's probably fine for now. I don't want the Sox to deal Casas or Bello or Mayer. No way. If they're getting Alcantara back, that's a different conversation.
I’m fine with him. I enjoy watching Iglesias more so I’d prefer him. I was bummed he was not on the roster soon enough to play in 2021 playoffs. He was a great pick up.
 

BeantownIdaho

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Dec 5, 2005
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Yep, at this point I'm on the Andrus train.

2022: 17 hr (which he won't repeat), 103 ops+, 3.1 bWAR

Even if he hits 8 homers, has a 90 ops+, and a 1.0 bWAR, that's probably fine for now. I don't want the Sox to deal Casas or Bello or Mayer. No way. If they're getting Alcantara back, that's a different conversation.
Don't we another roster move to make before the Kluber signing is official? Signing Andrus would be fine, but it would then be 2 roster moves. Not that I am opposed, but the trade might be the option they are looking at.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Nov 19, 2008
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I hope the Sox don't deal Mayer, Casas or Bello for Lopez, but if I'm Miami, those are the guys I'd be asking for. It makes sense for Miami, but not for Boston. There might be a team out there that could give them a Casas/Bello type prospect for Lopez, but I don't think it will be the Sox. They aren't looking for that last piece of the rotation to put them over the top. Someone like Houston, Philly, Toronto, etc make more sense than the Sox at this point.
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
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Don't we another roster move to make before the Kluber signing is official? Signing Andrus would be fine, but it would then be 2 roster moves. Not that I am opposed, but the trade might be the option they are looking at.
We can always move the fringy Dalbec types for lower level minor leaguers who don't need to be on the 40-man, yet, if necessary.
 

JM3

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Red(s)HawksFan

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I mean, trading him after this would be a pretty “Marlins” thing to do.
I would have thought the extremely below market extension he signed last winter would be enough to make him untouchable. At least for a couple more years. The Marlins are paying him $6M next year (with a relatively meaningless for a low payroll team CBT hit of only $11.2M).
 

bosox1534

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Dec 17, 2022
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Any chance Sox are more willing to move Kike to infield now with Story injury? Could make it easier to fill holes rather than having to acquire a middle infielder. Doubt Cubs would move Happ at this point, but guys like Kepler, Duvall, McCutchen, maybe even Reynolds without giving up Casas/Mayer could shore up this lineup while Story is out and could then be even better when he returns. Defense could be an issue with some of those, but at this point you’re not gonna find the perfect player without giving up a fortune.
 

BornToRun

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Any chance Sox are more willing to move Kike to infield now with Story injury? Could make it easier to fill holes rather than having to acquire a middle infielder. Doubt Cubs would move Happ at this point, but guys like Kepler, Duvall, McCutchen, maybe even Reynolds without giving up Casas/Mayer could shore up this lineup while Story is out and could then be even better when he returns. Defense could be an issue with some of those, but at this point you’re not gonna find the perfect player without giving up a fortune.
Count me in on Reynolds but that’d likely be a pretty painful prospect package. Coming off two really good offensive seasons with a 6 win year in 2021. About to turn 28 with 3 more years of team control. Can’t imagine we’d avoid all of Bello, Mayer, or Casas in a proposal that Pittsburgh would actually be interested in.

Edit: the other three I don’t think would hit enough to be worth moving Kike out of center. Reynolds is an offensive force but those other guys aren’t super enticing. Kepler would be the most interesting but he hasn’t had an above average bat since the shortened 2020 season and is about to turn 30.
 

bosox1534

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Dec 17, 2022
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Count me in on Reynolds but that’d likely be a pretty painful prospect package. Coming off two really good offensive seasons with a 6 win year in 2021. About to turn 28 with 3 more years of team control. Can’t imagine we’d avoid all of Bello, Mayer, or Casas in a proposal that Pittsburgh would actually be interested in.

Edit: the other three I don’t think would hit enough to be worth moving Kike out of center. Reynolds is an offensive force but those other guys aren’t super enticing. Kepler would be the most interesting but he hasn’t had an above average bat since the shortened 2020 season and is about to turn 30.
I’m just worried that the available middle infielders are going to be bottom of the order guys with little potential. At least guys like Duvall and McCutchen can still run into a home run every once in a while. Andrus was good for about 2 months last year and it makes it look like he had a strong year. Probably worth a shot but I think we can do better. Iglesisas is the definition of an average player. Maybe I’m just basing my opinions on past results of these guys.
 

Daniel_Son

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Thinking outside the box... how about grabbing CF Stuart Fairchild from Cincinnati? He's bounced around a lot, but he's only 26 and posted a .247/.336/.464 overall slash line in '22 with 122 wRC+ (good for 12th-best among all major league center fielders (min. 80 PAs). He wouldn't cost a ton to get (0.7 in BTV), he's got options, has good minor league numbers (890 OPS+ in AAA), and would provide some outfield depth in case Rafaela takes a little longer to get here than expected.
 

bosox1534

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Dec 17, 2022
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Thinking outside the box... how about grabbing CF Stuart Fairchild from Cincinnati? He's bounced around a lot, but he's only 26 and posted a .247/.336/.464 overall slash line in '22 with 122 wRC+ (good for 12th-best among all major league center fielders (min. 80 PAs). He wouldn't cost a ton to get (0.7 in BTV), he's got options, has good minor league numbers (890 OPS+ in AAA), and would provide some outfield depth in case Rafaela takes a little longer to get here than expected.
Extremely small sample size with him, but I guess there’s some potential. Not even sure he cracks the Reds lineup though, and that’s saying something. Probably has the ceiling of a Refsnyder type guy.
 

nighthob

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I’m just worried that the available middle infielders are going to be bottom of the order guys with little potential. At least guys like Duvall and McCutchen can still run into a home run every once in a while. Andrus was good for about 2 months last year and it makes it look like he had a strong year. Probably worth a shot but I think we can do better. Iglesisas is the definition of an average player. Maybe I’m just basing my opinions on past results of these guys.
At some point next year Little Raffi is going to be ready to hit major league pitching. He can play SS, so Boston really only needs someone to hold the position down for a few months. In the short term you can stick Little Raffi at short and then move him to the OF when Mayer’s ready. Their OF options are so terrible that there’s always going to be room there.
 

BornToRun

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Any interest in Dylan Moore? No idea how Seattle values him but he could be useful as a fill-in/utility piece. 30 years old with 2 years of arb remaining. Played all over the field last year, can run a bit, and put up a .368 on base over 100~ games.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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At some point next year Little Raffi is going to be ready to hit major league pitching. He can play SS, so Boston really only needs someone to hold the position down for a few months. In the short term you can stick Little Raffi at short and then move him to the OF when Mayer’s ready. Their OF options are so terrible that there’s always going to be room there.
sorry…. Who’s “little raff”????
 

johnnywayback

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Hate to be a downer, but:

Trade Duran and Dalbec for Nicky Lopez and Michael Taylor and watch us roll.
I wish. More likely Dalbec gets DFAd and Duran gets a minor prospect. These guys just don't have any trade value.

At some point next year Little Raffi is going to be ready to hit major league pitching. He can play SS, so Boston really only needs someone to hold the position down for a few months. In the short term you can stick Little Raffi at short and then move him to the OF when Mayer’s ready. Their OF options are so terrible that there’s always going to be room there.
Little Raffi isn't ready to hit AA pitching yet. I really wouldn't bank on him being ready for the majors anytime soon.
 

simplicio

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Little Raffi isn't ready to hit AA pitching yet. I really wouldn't bank on him being ready for the majors anytime soon.
Little Raffi had an .842 OPS in AA last year at age 21, and is projected on soxprospects to debut late this season, so I guess it depends on your definition of soon?
 

Daniel_Son

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Any interest in Dylan Moore? No idea how Seattle values him but he could be useful as a fill-in/utility piece. 30 years old with 2 years of arb remaining. Played all over the field last year, can run a bit, and put up a .368 on base over 100~ games.
He makes the most of getting on base, too - 21 SB last year. Seems like a good get. I know it's become something of a meme at this point, but Duran (+ a mid-level prospect) might actually make sense here in a trade - Seattle likely needs cost-controlled outfield depth to offset their Rodriguez extension.
 

johnnywayback

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The underlying stats of little Raffy's 2022 offensively are awful. I'm guessing that OPS is due to a lot of infield hits with his speed?
The issue is that Rafaela swings at everything. Against weak pitching, he's getting away with it, because he has good bat-to-ball skills and makes contact instead of whiffing. But pitchers who know what they're doing will have an easy time exploiting that approach to get weak contact. So I think his early AA success is just a result of not facing enough good pitching (yet).
 

KillerBs

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Nov 16, 2006
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I wish. More likely Dalbec gets DFAd and Duran gets a minor prospect. These guys just don't have any trade value.
I don't know Dalbec still seems a potential useful platoon bench bat and if someone gave Duran 400 ABs in LF they may have something. But if that doesn't do it, maybe we could interest the Royals in a pitcher like Winckowski, Seabold, Murphy etc. The Royals are shopping Taylor, who is about to lose his job and it makes little sense for them to be starting Lopez at second with Massey and Adalberto around.
 

LogansDad

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He makes the most of getting on base, too - 21 SB last year. Seems like a good get. I know it's become something of a meme at this point, but Duran (+ a mid-level prospect) might actually make sense here in a trade - Seattle likely needs cost-controlled outfield depth to offset their Rodriguez extension.
I'm not saying they won't move Moore, but I don't think Seattle would have a lot of interest in Duran. They just signed Pollock, they still have Kelenic and Sam Haggerty to figure out playing time for (assuming they haven't given up on the former), and they have a guy pretty close to MLB ready in Cade Marlowe who is probably already a better player than Duran.
 

Blizzard of 1978

@drballs
Sep 12, 2022
503
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Yep, at this point I'm on the Andrus train.

2022: 17 hr (which he won't repeat), 103 ops+, 3.1 bWAR

Even if he hits 8 homers, has a 90 ops+, and a 1.0 bWAR, that's probably fine for now. I don't want the Sox to deal Casas or Bello or Mayer. No way. If they're getting Alcantara back, that's a different conversation.
I don't remember where I read it, but a article 2 weeks ago said Andrus wanted two years. Also interesting tidbit is both Andrus and Iggy are Scott Boras clients.
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
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Adames and Yelich could fix this.
Well, with the news that Devers is only going to cost his arb salary this year, it looks like we're up to around $30m in space.

Adames/Yelich for Duran/Barnes or something would leave them about $5m more of space...

Seems like an awful deal for the Brewers, but that Yelich contract is yikes & they only have 2 more years of Adames.
 

BornToRun

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Well, with the news that Devers is only going to cost his arb salary this year, it looks like we're up to around $30m in space.

Adames/Yelich for Duran/Barnes or something would leave them about $5m more of space...

Seems like an awful deal for the Brewers, but that Yelich contract is yikes & they only have 2 more years of Adames.
Taking on Yelich seems like the kind of thing that I could just as easily be talked into as talked out of. He’s regressed hard but is still a useful player and oh my god could you imagine if he regained even a bit of that old talent while, at the same time, dude is 31 and owed 26 million over the next 6 years while slugging under .400 the last two seasons. Attaching two years of Adames as a bridge to Mayer makes it all the more tantalizing.
 

scottyno

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Well, with the news that Devers is only going to cost his arb salary this year, it looks like we're up to around $30m in space.

Adames/Yelich for Duran/Barnes or something would leave them about $5m more of space...

Seems like an awful deal for the Brewers, but that Yelich contract is yikes & they only have 2 more years of Adames.
Where are you getting 30m, are you leaving out the arb guys (including devers)? It's more like 15m or so, so taking on Yelich would make it pretty much impossible to reset unless there's some other big move sending someone out.
 

nighthob

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The underlying stats of little Raffy's 2022 offensively are awful. I'm guessing that OPS is due to a lot of infield hits with his speed?
I heard someone comment on that on a podcast last year (although don’t ask me who said it now), but the gist of it was that Little Raffi’s OPS was partially a function of his ability to turn outs into singles and singles into doubles. But it’s not like that ability is going away anytime soon (but they’ll clearly work on getting him to take command of he strike zone). Given the bleak state of the Sox’s OF prospects it’s understandable that they might consider him untouchable in the short term. I love Bleis, but he’s a looooooooooong way off. Matthew Lugo might end up being their RF of the near future at this point.
 
Aug 31, 2006
133
South Acton, Mass.
At this point the Red Sox need two infielders capable of starting up the middle; I think you probably need to sign a free agent and make a trade. Peter Abraham also pointed out in the Globe this morning that the Sox suddenly could use some power from the right side.

I'm on team "Sign Elvis Andrus" at this point but I'm also going to throw a new name out there for trade consideration: Jonathan Schoop.

Schoop was, by any measure, terrible at the plate last year, and there's a non-trivial chance he could be DFA'd by Memorial Day in 2023.

However, he is just a year removed from a pretty good season in 2021: 22 HRs, .755 OPS, 107 wRC+. He also has played, even in 2022, consistently excellent defense at 2B, and he's only owed $7.5 million next year.

Why not trade Brasier, Dalbec, or some other spare part to take a chance on a guy who could compete for a Gold Glove at 2B and potentially hit 20 home runs from the right side?

The Red Sox have definitely reached the "beggars can't be choosers" stage of the offseason. Time to get creative.
 

Bread of Yaz

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At this point the Red Sox need two infielders capable of starting up the middle; I think you probably need to sign a free agent and make a trade. Peter Abraham also pointed out in the Globe this morning that the Sox suddenly could use some power from the right side.

I'm on team "Sign Elvis Andrus" at this point but I'm also going to throw a new name out there for trade consideration: Jonathan Schoop.

Schoop was, by any measure, terrible at the plate last year, and there's a non-trivial chance he could be DFA'd by Memorial Day in 2023.

However, he is just a year removed from a pretty good season in 2021: 22 HRs, .755 OPS, 107 wRC+. He also has played, even in 2022, consistently excellent defense at 2B, and he's only owed $7.5 million next year.

Why not trade Brasier, Dalbec, or some other spare part to take a chance on a guy who could compete for a Gold Glove at 2B and potentially hit 20 home runs from the right side?

The Red Sox have definitely reached the "beggars can't be choosers" stage of the offseason. Time to get creative.
Excellent suggestion. Schoop was an incredible 27 outs above average last year according to Statcast and has never been negative. Had an abysmal 234 BABIP and so regression to league average would greatly improve his offensive numbers, even if he doesn't get all the way back to 2021 levels. Tigers acquired Maton in the Soto deal so could plug him into the 2B slot.
 

BringBackMo

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Ceddanne Rafaela is an excellent prospect and the Red Sox and the league rightly value him as such. He has work to do, without question. He has approach problems, and the organization is well aware of that, and by all accounts they continue to work with him on it. He is not ready for the majors yet. But he Is being significantly under valued in these recent discussions.

His main problem is that he chases pitches outside the strike zone, which leads to weak contact rather than swing and miss because he has a rare contact ability. It’s obvious that what he needs to work on is not chasing these pitches. This is not some insurmountable challenge that has the Sox looking to sell high on him. This is a player who has shown an ability to process and grow.

Does that guarantee he’ll overcome this challenge and unlock his ceiling potential? Of course not. No prospect is guaranteed to do that. But as a 21 year old in AA he hit 12 home runs and slugged .500 in 284 AB while playing defense in CF that scouts have said would be gold glove caliber *right now* in the big leagues and who also plays a very good SS. His floor entering his age 22 season appears to be a major league bench player because of his defense, speed, and positional versatility. If he makes any progress at all—and this is a prospect who has made a LOT of progress in recent season—he’s an easy everyday player at two premium positions, with the potential to become above-average.

Rafaela is a player you bet on, not one you sell high on. The Sox may trade him because the three prospects above him are all but untouchable and the big league club does have needs, but he is a very good prospect.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Ceddanne Rafaela is an excellent prospect and the Red Sox and the league rightly value him as such. He has work to do, without question. He has approach problems, and the organization is well aware of that, and by all accounts they continue to work with him on it. He is not ready for the majors yet. But he Is being significantly under valued in these recent discussions.

His main problem is that he chases pitches outside the strike zone, which leads to weak contact rather than swing and miss because he has a rare contact ability. It’s obvious that what he needs to work on is not chasing these pitches. This is not some insurmountable challenge that has the Sox looking to sell high on him. This is a player who has shown an ability to process and grow.

Does that guarantee he’ll overcome this challenge and unlock his ceiling potential? Of course not. No prospect is guaranteed to do that. But as a 21 year old in AA he hit 12 home runs and slugged .500 in 284 AB while playing defense in CF that scouts have said would be gold glove caliber *right now* in the big leagues and who also plays a very good SS. His floor entering his age 22 season appears to be a major league bench player because of his defense, speed, and positional versatility. If he makes any progress at all—and this is a prospect who has made a LOT of progress in recent season—he’s an easy everyday player at two premium positions, with the potential to become above-average.

Rafaela is a player you bet on, not one you sell high on. The Sox may trade him because the three prospects above him are all but untouchable and the big league club does have needs, but he is a very good prospect.
I’d like to expand a bit here and discuss Rafaela. I think the Red Sox are going through what many systems go through when they have another wave of talent and it’s that other organizations want your best talent, even if your mid level talent would be ranked higher than many other organizations top level

Rafaelal’s defensive ability isn’t just “gold caliber” it’s potentially generational. He’s the best defensive prospect to come though the system in decades.

When you layer in that he also can play a very very good shortstop, he becomes a challenging player to grade out.

How many players can play an above average short stop and all world center? When you add the juice from the bat… again he’s very challenging to grade out as a trade piece.

All that to say, just because he’s 3-5th in the system doesn’t mean he isn’t someone who has the potential to be a championship caliber player. You’d need a lot of value there.
 

JM3

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Where are you getting 30m, are you leaving out the arb guys (including devers)? It's more like 15m or so, so taking on Yelich would make it pretty much impossible to reset unless there's some other big move sending someone out.
Spotrac seemed to indicate $17m including arb projections & they had Devers listed at $30m instead of $17m. Quite possible they had updated it one place but not another or I missread something.

Fangraphs seems to have them at $22m.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/red-sox
 

geoflin

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I don't remember where I read it, but a article 2 weeks ago said Andrus wanted two years. Also interesting tidbit is both Andrus and Iggy are Scott Boras clients.
I'm in the sign Andrus camp, with Iglesias as second choice. Sure, he like most players wants a longer rather than a shorter term deal, but I haven't seen or heard anything about interest in him from another team so what he gets will be determined by his market.