Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

ElcaballitoMVP

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The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
I think you can pretty easily see the difference between the two teams, no? And why it would make more sense for both Houston and Abreu to be more likely to get a deal done than Boston and Abreu?

The Sox can be competitive with the right moves, but the Astros just won the World Series with an absolutely loaded roster. If you were Abreu, which team would you want to join? And in Houston you get to play the position you've played your entire career instead of just being the primary DH.
 

AlNipper49

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The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
The Astros just won the World Series. The Red Sox just came in last place.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I’m confused: are we mad Chaim didn’t blow a ton of money on Abreu or was that the consensus smart move?
I think Abreu is the first of many Bloom Rorschach Tests this winter.

Abreu isn't a slam dunk by any means, but he definitely could have helped the Red Sox. And hearing that the Sox had interest of was their "top priority of the offseason" brings thoughts of the last two offseasons where the Sox were, according to Jared Carabis, "Interest Kings". And that's not a lot of fun. So if you're not much of a Bloom guy you can say, "Chaim already whiffed on his first test this offseason". Or if you are a Bloomer you can say, "Abreu is 35 years old, got a three year deal that's not going to look great in two years; he did fine."

The truth is in the middle, though I'd lean towards signing Abreu. I think that the Sox need him and he only cost money.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Why is it so hard to believe the Sox wanted Abreu? He would be an excellent DH, spell Casas against tough lefties and provide insurance against Casas pulling a Duran. Maybe you don't want to pay $60 million for that but it pretty clear what he would bring to the team.
It's not hard to believe the Sox were interested, perhaps strongly, in Abreu. It's also not hard to believe that he was not their #1 target (Heyman being the lone source for that is enough to make it dubious) and it is certainly not hard to believe that their interest in him wasn't strong enough to go to 3 or more years and $20M or more per year in order to sign him. I don't think anyone saying it's not a big loss is saying Abreu isn't a good player and wouldn't bring something to the team. But is it worth (over?)paying for his age 38 season to get it? I think that's the prevailing argument.

The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
Why does it have to be black and white? Why does it have to be in a window or not? Whatever the imagery you want to use, the Astros are clearly at a different stage in the process than the Sox. Does that mean the Sox can't contend or expect to contend? Of fucking course not. But they've got different things they need to do than the Astros to be a complete club. Carrying over from 2022, the Astros only had one glaring hole in their lineup and Abreu fits that perfectly. The Sox have three or four holes to fill/upgrade and 1B isn't really their highest priority. Nor is DH, really. Abreu isn't a difference maker for them. Signing or not signing him doesn't really make or break their ability to contend in 2023.
 

E5 Yaz

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We will know it's true or not when he signs his name to a contract.
Agreed ... BUT, if you put today's two shortstop reports together, the Phillies (who were thought to be strong on Xander) signing Turner would leave a Bogaerts-sized hole in the Dodgers lineup
 
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chawson

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The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
With expanded playoffs and diversified scheduling, I don't see how we wouldn't be contenders every single year. We may not always be top of the class, highest-projected WAR in the AL-type teams like the Astros are right now, but there's no reason we shouldn't enter the season as a Top 6 team in the A.L.
 

Ganthem

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I think Abreu is the first of many Bloom Rorschach Tests this winter.

Abreu isn't a slam dunk by any means, but he definitely could have helped the Red Sox. And hearing that the Sox had interest of was their "top priority of the offseason" brings thoughts of the last two offseasons where the Sox were, according to Jared Carabis, "Interest Kings". And that's not a lot of fun. So if you're not much of a Bloom guy you can say, "Chaim already whiffed on his first test this offseason". Or if you are a Bloomer you can say, "Abreu is 35 years old, got a three year deal that's not going to look great in two years; he did fine."

The truth is in the middle, though I'd lean towards signing Abreu. I think that the Sox need him and he only cost money.
So what do you do with Casas if Abreu wants to sign here, but not as a DH? I am bringing up this point repeatedly because amongst all the hand wringing one way or another, the fact that a lot of players don't want to mostly DH is not being brought up. Perhaps it is easier to ignore this point because the narrative that Bloom is cheap or Abreu is a bad signing due to age is simpler for people to wrap their heads around.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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So what do you do with Casas if Abreu wants to sign here, but not as a DH? I am bringing up this point repeatedly because amongst all the hand wringing one way or another, the fact that a lot of players don't want to mostly DH is not being brought up. Perhaps it is easier to ignore this point because the narrative that Bloom is cheap or Abreu is a bad signing due to age is simpler for people to wrap their heads around.
I may have missed that, but did Abreu say that he didn't want to DH at all? Where did he say that?

I mean, if that's the case then you sweeten the pot a little bit. Give him an extra two or three million dollars a year, if he's one of the Sox' main priorities. It's a negotiation. Or you say you'll start at first x amount of times per week and DH the other times. Casas can flip flop with him or sit. I think that Casas is going to be good, but is he can't miss? What if he regresses? Are we doing the same thing that we did with Dalbec and Duran where we're so sure that they're going to be good Major Leaguers that we're putting all of our eggs in their basket and ignoring legitimate Major League bats?

Like I said, I think Casas is going to be a good first baseman but we're not talking Lou Gehrig here.
 

Ganthem

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I may have missed that, but did Abreu say that he didn't want to DH at all? Where did he say that?

I mean, if that's the case then you sweeten the pot a little bit. Give him an extra two or three million dollars a year, if he's one of the Sox' main priorities. It's a negotiation. Or you say you'll start at first x amount of times per week and DH the other times. Casas can flip flop with him or sit. I think that Casas is going to be good, but is he can't miss? What if he regresses? Are we doing the same thing that we did with Dalbec and Duran where we're so sure that they're going to be good Major Leaguers that we're putting all of our eggs in their basket and ignoring legitimate Major League bats?

Like I said, I think Casas is going to be a good first baseman but we're not talking Lou Gehrig here.
Then the question becomes, how much are you willing to sweeten the pot to get a player to give up playing a position. Some of these players take pride in playing their position and it might not be the best use of resources to splash money on them to give that up.
 

soxhop411

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We will know it's true or not when he signs his name to a contract.
Come on man. You know what I mean by confirm... Also, why would Boras tell teams Xander cut ties with BOS and is not returning his calls? Thats going to HURT his negotiation leverage, since now teams wont have to worry about outbidding the Sox.... Which means his eventual contract would be less than if teams were bidding against Boston + others

Seems like a game of telephone which something got lost in translation
 

johnnywayback

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I think people are looking for a reason to be upset about Abreu because nothing else is going on and it's boring. The Occam's Razor explanation for their not outbidding the Astros is that Heyman's assertion was wrong. Abreu's a good player and I'm sure the Sox would have been interested in having him at the right price, but he would have been the third guy on the 26-man roster who can only play 1B or DH (along with Casas and Hosmer), and that's assuming Dalbec is in AAA. I'd much rather have someone in that spot who can play some outfield and I'm guessing the Sox would, too.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I may have missed that, but did Abreu say that he didn't want to DH at all? Where did he say that?

I mean, if that's the case then you sweeten the pot a little bit. Give him an extra two or three million dollars a year, if he's one of the Sox' main priorities. It's a negotiation. Or you say you'll start at first x amount of times per week and DH the other times. Casas can flip flop with him or sit. I think that Casas is going to be good, but is he can't miss? What if he regresses? Are we doing the same thing that we did with Dalbec and Duran where we're so sure that they're going to be good Major Leaguers that we're putting all of our eggs in their basket and ignoring legitimate Major League bats?

Like I said, I think Casas is going to be a good first baseman but we're not talking Lou Gehrig here.
I don't think Ganthem is saying that Abreu doesn't want to DH or has expressed that publicly. I think Ganthem is pointing out that it can't be dismissed as a factor in whatever negotiations took place. Given a choice between going to the reigning world champs to play 1B full time versus going to a rebuilding team to primarily DH because they have a young highly touted prospect at 1B, perhaps the money wouldn't be enough of a factor to matter to him.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Then the question becomes, how much are you willing to sweeten the pot to get a player to give up playing a position. Some of these players take pride in playing their position and it might not be the best use of resources to splash money on them to give that up.
Again, that's part of negotiation. Bloom has his idea of a high bid (and if this is the player he wants to make a splash with, maybe it's higher than normal). Abreu has his price for being a DH. They meet in the middle somewhere.

Also, where is the link of Abreu saying he doesn't want to DH? I'm interested in reading it.

EDIT:
I don't think Ganthem is saying that Abreu doesn't want to DH or has expressed that publicly. I think Ganthem is pointing out that it can't be dismissed as a factor in whatever negotiations took place. Given a choice between going to the reigning world champs to play 1B full time versus going to a rebuilding team to primarily DH because they have a young highly touted prospect at 1B, perhaps the money wouldn't be enough of a factor to matter to him.
I mean, that makes sense, but it's not fact; is it? Are we now just sorta making stuff up to fit our POV?

Because he wrote this:
So what do you do with Casas if Abreu wants to sign here, but not as a DH? I am bringing up this point repeatedly because amongst all the hand wringing one way or another, the fact that a lot of players don't want to mostly DH is not being brought up.
And it reads to me like Ganthem knows something that I don't, ie Abreu doesn't want to DH and has made that clear. And if that's the case, that's fine. There's a shit load of things that I don't know, but he has to do a better of job of framing it as this is just his opinion.

Because I could write, "So what do you do if Abreu wants to sign here, but is afraid of water? I am bringing up this point repeatedly because amongst all the hand wringing one way or another, the fact that a lot of players don't want to live in a city near the ocean is not being brought up."

And for some people, who are afraid of water, this is a legit issue. Abreu hasn't specifically said that, we could speculate that was a reason. But it's not based in fact and would be kind of useless to engage in that speculation, no?
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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Most of the arguments regarding Abreu seem to suggest the Sox rejected him for various reasons (age, position, lack of positional flexibility, too expensive, contract too long, doesn’t align with contention window, declining power, etc); and ignore that the choice may have been Abreu’s. Who knows.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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I am happy he signed not in Boston. We don’t need Abreu honestly. I’d much prefer them spend the money elsewhere.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Again, that's part of negotiation. Bloom has his idea of a high bid (and if this is the player he wants to make a splash with, maybe it's higher than normal). Abreu has his price for being a DH. They meet in the middle somewhere.

Also, where is the link of Abreu saying he doesn't want to DH? I'm interested in reading it.

EDIT:


I mean, that makes sense, but it's not fact; is it? Are we now just sorta making stuff up to fit our POV?

Because he wrote this:

And it reads to me like Ganthem knows something that I don't, ie Abreu doesn't want to DH and has made that clear. And if that's the case, that's fine. There's a shit load of things that I don't know, but he has to do a better of job of framing it as this is just his opinion.
Where's the link saying he wanted to DH?

Even if he said, sure, I'm willing to DH, how much more money would the Sox need to add to to convince him to sign over the defending champs who are willing to let him play the position he's played his entire career?

No one is making anything up. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume he'd like to stay at 1B rather than DH, on the world series champs vs a team that just finished in last place. Of course the Sox could have said here's 4 years, $25M per, but then the team could be right back where they were this past season with an overpriced DH who isn't hitting for much power.

I think Abreu made a lot of sense for the team. It made a lot of sense that he'd be at the top of their free agent list too. If he was willing to sign the same deal in Boston, we'd all be quite happy. But there comes a point where you have to say no to a guy like this, in terms of years and dollars.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Most of the arguments regarding Abreu seem to suggest the Sox rejected him for various reasons (age, position, lack of positional flexibility, too expensive, contract too long, doesn’t align with contention window, declining power, etc); and ignore that the choice may have been Abreu’s. Who knows.
None of those arguments are necessarily a rejection of Abreu so much as a number of reasons to draw a line. And obviously the Astros had a different line. And Abreu chose the Astros.
 

Salem's Lot

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Most of the arguments regarding Abreu seem to suggest the Sox rejected him for various reasons (age, position, lack of positional flexibility, too expensive, contract too long, doesn’t align with contention window, declining power, etc); and ignore that the choice may have been Abreu’s. Who knows.
I honestly don’t know why Abreu would choose Boston (a last place club with a rabid fan base) over Houston (the defending world champions that play in a market without a ton of fan scrutiny when it comes to baseball, in a state with no state income tax) unless the Red Sox severely overpaid for him.
 

Ganthem

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Again, that's part of negotiation. Bloom has his idea of a high bid (and if this is the player he wants to make a splash with, maybe it's higher than normal). Abreu has his price for being a DH. They meet in the middle somewhere.

Also, where is the link of Abreu saying he doesn't want to DH? I'm interested in reading it.

EDIT:


I mean, that makes sense, but it's not fact; is it? Are we now just sorta making stuff up to fit our POV?

Because he wrote this:

And it reads to me like Ganthem knows something that I don't, ie Abreu doesn't want to DH and has made that clear. And if that's the case, that's fine. There's a shit load of things that I don't know, but he has to do a better of job of framing it as this is just his opinion.

Because I could write, "So what do you do if Abreu wants to sign here, but is afraid of water? I am bringing up this point repeatedly because amongst all the hand wringing one way or another, the fact that a lot of players don't want to live in a city near the ocean is not being brought up."

And for some people, who are afraid of water, this is a legit issue. Abreu hasn't specifically said that, we could speculate that was a reason. But it's not based in fact and would be kind of useless to engage in that speculation, no?
You make a lot of false arguments concerning my posts. Other posters on this board have called you out on this and now I will. There was a report that Abreu was a top target of the Sox. Posters started speculating that Bloom was being cheap or that signing Abreu was not smart given his age and where the sox were in the process of retooling/rebuilding. The point I was making was that it could also involve a desire not to switch positions which is plausible. I in no way shape or form indicated there was information I had or that there was a report that Abreu was not being willing to switch. That is your fevered imagination. If you honestly think position switching is not a big deal you have not been following baseball.
 

RedOctober3829

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Come on man. You know what I mean by confirm... Also, why would Boras tell teams Xander cut ties with BOS and is not returning his calls? Thats going to HURT his negotiation leverage, since now teams wont have to worry about outbidding the Sox.... Which means his eventual contract would be less than if teams were bidding against Boston + others

Seems like a game of telephone which something got lost in translation
Why would his contract be less because Boston theoretically wouldn't be in the mix? There are plenty of deep-pocketed teams that are in the market for a SS so just because Boston isn't it does not mean the value of his deal would go down.
 

JM3

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I honestly don’t know why Abreu would choose Boston (a last place club with a rabid fan base) over Houston (the defending world champions that play in a market without a ton of fan scrutiny when it comes to baseball, in a state with no state income tax) unless the Red Sox severely overpaid for him.
I was just looking at the state income tax stuff, too. Was going to do a breakdown of what it would look like to have to buy out any interest Abreu has in playing 1B regularly, state income tax, World Series champions, warm weather, etc. & it's like why?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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You make a lot of false arguments concerning my posts. Other posters on this board have called you out on this and now I will. There was a report that Abreu was a top target of the Sox. Posters started speculating that Bloom was being cheap or that signing Abreu was not smart given his age and where the sox were in the process of retooling/rebuilding. The point I was making was that it could also involve a desire not to switch positions which is plausible. I in no way shape or form indicated there was information I had or that there was a report that Abreu was not being willing to switch. That is your fevered imagination. If you honestly think position switching is not a big deal you have not been following baseball.
What are you talking about that " make a lot of false arguments concerning my posts" and "Other posters on this board have called you out on this ..."?

Do you think I have a vendetta against you? I can assure that I don't. In your OP you made it sound like you have information that Abreu didn't want to DH. I was sincerely interested in reading it, because like I said, we all miss stuff. Maybe in Abreu's press conference he said something about not wanting to DH. Maybe in an article over the last three weeks, he said the same thing. People miss stuff all the time, what I was--again--sincerely asking is for where you got your information. You got called on it and now you're angry. That's cool. It happens to the best of us.

Do I understand that some players don't like their positions changed? Of course. But players change positions all the time. All I'm saying is that next time, frame your opinions as that, opinions.

BTW Ganthem, here's some advice: you haven't been on this board for very long. If you want to stay on this board as a member in good standing, start framing your opinions as such and keep the personal insults to nil. This is at least your second time being publicly warned about this.
 

moondog80

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I get that this is the rumors thread and all, but seriously? Is an anonymous twitter egg supposed to be a remotely acceptable source to post?
Yeah that guy overplayed his hand, he's posted like 50 juicy rumors in the past week.

That said, if/when the Sox come to the conclusion that Devers' leaving is more likely than not, trading him is the correct move.
 

Whoop-La White

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I honestly don’t know why Abreu would choose Boston (a last place club with a rabid fan base) over Houston (the defending world champions that play in a market without a ton of fan scrutiny when it comes to baseball, in a state with no state income tax) unless the Red Sox severely overpaid for him.
FWIW, Rosenthal had mentioned a FO source had said that Abreu was "intrigued by the possibility of playing for one of the two Florida teams." That rumor fed suspicion that he wanted to play close to Miami, where he has a house. Since neither MIA nor TB were likely to shell out, maybe Houston fit the "close enough" bill.
 

E5 Yaz

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Hey Buster, if you are going to take Potshots at the Sox at least be accurate with them... Lester did not go to FA after rejecting the offer, the Sox traded him prior to him becoming a FA...
He's not wrong. He rejected the offer, got traded, then took the Cubs offer. Olney never says he left the Red Sox to sign with the Cubs as a free agent
 

moondog80

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jon abbey

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Come on, man, you’re a Dope. If a regular poster did this they’d hear about it.
Rumors are rumors, the level of this thread has been way below what I think should be on the main board from the start.
 

jon abbey

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Agreed. Rumor threads have always been understood to mean "rumors from credible sources."
Heh, I'd like to see someone go back and check the accuracy of those 'credible sources' later on.

Anyway, I was mostly trying to kill the Abreu back and forth and I seem to have done that. :)
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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E5 Yaz

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Anyway, I was mostly trying to kill the Abreu back and forth and I seem to have done that. :)
Huh .. and here I thought you were trying to troll by posting a rando-tweet about them possibly trading Devers
 

moondog80

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If they lose out on Bogaerts, the blame squarely is on ownership. According to this article snippet posted by our own SoxScout, Boras negotiates directly with John Henry and Tom Werner.

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1598002460827979776?s=20&t=V2bruc6VcDp0aBRBRkhSng
If you have price and stick to it, but some other team has a higher offer, is that losing? The money they would have spend on Xander in this scenario, they are allowed to allocate it elsewhere, right?
 

jon abbey

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Huh .. and here I thought you were trying to troll by posting a rando-tweet about them possibly trading Devers
I never troll (in this way anyway), I have actually been holding back my opinions on what will happen here.

FWIW, I follow 2-3 anonymous alleged insiders and their info is just as accurate as the established beat guys. Ignore it if you want, it is a rumors thread and most rumors are wrong.
 

Van Everyman

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I still think, all things being equal, Xander wants to return, if the price is fair.

I don’t follow the luxury tax stuff that closely but th more I think about it, the more I wonder if there’s anything really keeping the Sox from just paying market value for both Xander and Raffy. I get that the “out years” will be ugly, but other than Sale and Story is on the books for anything significant at this point? You are set at both those positions for 3-4 years or so and still have money to spend on some other upper/mid-tier arms with the farm prospects and filling in the rest presumably. What am I missing?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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If you have price and stick to it, but some other team has a higher offer, is that losing? The money they would have spend on Xander in this scenario, they are allowed to allocate it elsewhere, right?
Theoretically, sure, but if you are focused on getting good value and short term deals, you are working with a much more limited pool of players. I think it’s also easier to avoid big money deals when you have an established core of high ceiling players under contract- the Red Sox just don’t, and they only have so many roster spots. It’s difficult to replace 5-6 win players.