Red Sox acquire Wyatt Mills for Jacob Wallace, DFA Eric Hosmer

TimScribble

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I understand the knocks and 40-man argument against Groome, but still believe he has more value than some of the other bodies on the 40. The post was more to point out a consistent theme, I recognize I could have expanded on that more.

And we’ll have to see on Hosmer, as pointed out by others he has a full no trade and can simply just wait to be a free agent and sign where he wants.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I feel like people generally misunderstand this little corner of baseball maneuvering. If Ward was protected and then DFAd now, BOS almost certainly loses him for good. As it is, there's still a solid chance that WAS chooses to return him at some point mid-season rather than carry him all season. The argument against this is that WAS is going to be bad anyway so they will just keep him no matter what, but BAL returned Nestor Cortes Jr to NY in April one season after taking him in April.
I thought that the new rules says that he doesn’t have to be carried for the entire season. Am I wrong about that? (I definitely might be.)
 

YTF

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Why would Hosmer okay a trade, when he can do nothing and become a free agent?
My best guess would be that there could be some frame work for a deal including Hosmer, one that he would have agreed to. The Sox needed a spot on the 40 man and this was a work around (for lack of a better term) to free up a spot on the 40 man ahead of a deal that Hosmer has consented to.
 

jon abbey

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I thought that the new rules says that he doesn’t have to be carried for the entire season. Am I wrong about that? (I definitely might be.)
That rule didn't change, the Song one is confusing because they can put him on a special exemption list, but for normal players, they have to spend almost the entire season on the 26 man roster for the selecting team to retain their rights.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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That rule didn't change, the Song one is confusing because they can put him on a special exemption list, but for normal players, they have to spend almost the entire season on the 26 man roster for the selecting team to retain their rights.
I read it real quick last week. That’s probably what I saw.
 

E5 Yaz

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My best guess would be that there could be some frame work for a deal including Hosmer, one that he would have agreed to. The Sox needed a spot on the 40 man and this was a work around (for lack of a better term) to free up a spot on the 40 man ahead of a deal that Hosmer has consented to.
That's entirely possible; though it puts the Red Sox on the clock (albeit a minor one) to get such a trade completed. If if falls through and they put him on release waivers, he can reject any claim (source: mlbtr) and choose to be a free agent ... which would allow the team that wanted to trade for him to sign him without compensating the Red Sox.
 

E5 Yaz

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I mean, we're talking about Eric Hosmer here ... so the return wouldn't be great in any case. The Red Sox certainly don't appear to have valued him, given that his roster spot is being taken by a lottery-ticket pitcher just DFA'd by the Royals.
 

YTF

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That's entirely possible; though it puts the Red Sox on the clock (albeit a minor one) to get such a trade completed. If if falls through and they put him on release waivers, he can reject any claim (source: mlbtr) and choose to be a free agent ... which would allow the team that wanted to trade for him to sign him without compensating the Red Sox.
Without doubt and it could be possible that there are other pieces in play here that might keep said team from waiting out the DFA period. Either way it going to be interesting to see if there is anything more to this designation.
 

moondog80

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So 80% of the hot stove additions are relievers and the other 20% is a DH (or LF with poor defense at best) with zero MLB at bats?
Yes, and the offseason is now over. The team they have now is what you will see on opening day.
 

chawson

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Without doubt and it could be possible that there are other pieces in play here that might keep said team from waiting out the DFA period. Either way it going to be interesting to see if there is anything more to this designation.
Absolutely. Hosmer is not good but it’s surprisingly hard to find an adequate first baseman, let alone one who costs nothing, and he will get a BA bump with the shift change.

He’s probably a .280/.350/.420 line next year, a real James Loney in his prime type of guy. Someone will want that.
 

scottyno

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In the end, the Hosmer trade was effectively Jay Groome for Max Ferguson and Corey Rosier. Groome ended the season going 3-2 over 5 starts with a 3.16 ERA in the hitter friendly PCL. Ferguson and Rosier both played 23 games for Greenville with a .181 and .163 BA.

I’d add this had been Groome’s most successful season with Boston since his TJ surgery. Dug up the trade article and Bloom’s comments feel oddly familiar:

On Monday, Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom clarified that Boston still had work to do. “The puzzle is incomplete right now,” Bloom said, per MassLive — following the Christian Vázquez trade with the Houston Astros.
The trade ended up being that because Casas looked ready after last season. If Casas sucked in the majors then maybe he starts the year in AAA and they still keep Hosmer, it's not a bad thing that they deemed him expendable at this point.
 

soxhop411

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View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1603936432111980544
Our roster isn't complete yet, but as we build our club, we feel it's important to give Triston a clear lane, and that carrying two left-handed hitting first basemen would leave us short in other areas. Given that, it's important to do right by Eric and give him time to find his next opportunity. We knew when we first got him that this day would come at some point, and wanted to make sure we treated him right.
 

TheYellowDart5

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I feel like people generally misunderstand this little corner of baseball maneuvering. If Ward was protected and then DFAd now, BOS almost certainly loses him for good. As it is, there's still a solid chance that WAS chooses to return him at some point mid-season rather than carry him all season. The argument against this is that WAS is going to be bad anyway so they will just keep him no matter what, but BAL returned Nestor Cortes Jr to NY in April one season after taking him in April.
For me it's less about the mechanics of the Rule 5 and more about the process of losing a potentially talented arm for nothing at the expense of a guy who wasn't in their 2022 plans anyway. Maybe adding another lefty bat in Yoshida made Hosmer that much more expendable and his roster spot was more secure before that signing, but ultimately, I don't get how you end up keeping Hosmer on the roster over Ward if you're going to end up getting rid of Hosmer a month later anyway. Just keep the guy with a future and see how the offseason shakes out.

And yeah maybe Washington returns him but that's out of the team's control, as opposed to keeping Ward and figuring something out down the road. Instead they decided to keep rostering a guy so inessential to their coming season that they jettisoned him in mid-December as the casualty of a back of the bullpen exchange. That strikes me as bad process.

Also congrats to Bobby Dalbec I guess, unless Bloom et al are in on Drury or want to take a presumably cheap flyer on equally bad fielders like Mancini and Voit, the backup 1B job is now his. Maybe he'll be better in that role as a pure platoon bat but that seems like an area that the FO could and should do better in. We've got a lot of MLB plate appearances at this point suggesting Dalbec is what he is barring a huge change in approach. Or maybe he gets shitcanned anyway and they bring in Wil Myers to be bad for a season. Still, backup 1B remains a problem spot for the roster albeit a minor one compared to [gestures at like half a dozen other things].
 

Ale Xander

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For me it's less about the mechanics of the Rule 5 and more about the process of losing a potentially talented arm for nothing at the expense of a guy who wasn't in their 2022 plans anyway. Maybe adding another lefty bat in Yoshida made Hosmer that much more expendable and his roster spot was more secure before that signing, but ultimately, I don't get how you end up keeping Hosmer on the roster over Ward if you're going to end up getting rid of Hosmer a month later anyway. Just keep the guy with a future and see how the offseason shakes out.

And yeah maybe Washington returns him but that's out of the team's control, as opposed to keeping Ward and figuring something out down the road. Instead they decided to keep rostering a guy so inessential to their coming season that they jettisoned him in mid-December as the casualty of a back of the bullpen exchange. That strikes me as bad process.

Also congrats to Bobby Dalbec I guess, unless Bloom et al are in on Drury or want to take a presumably cheap flyer on equally bad fielders like Mancini and Voit, the backup 1B job is now his. Maybe he'll be better in that role as a pure platoon bat but that seems like an area that the FO could and should do better in. We've got a lot of MLB plate appearances at this point suggesting Dalbec is what he is barring a huge change in approach. Or maybe he gets shitcanned anyway and they bring in Wil Myers to be bad for a season. Still, backup 1B remains a problem spot for the roster albeit a minor one compared to [gestures at like half a dozen other things].
Right now Dabec seems to be the util IF

not just 1B but also 3B, and maybe even 2B if Arroyo (or Story) is our SS
 

BigJay

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Why would Hosmer okay a trade, when he can do nothing and become a free agent?
Because a team trading for him may.can guarantee him a starting job. FA is a crap shoot. He may only find backup jobs and/or minor league contract/spring training invite.
 

E5 Yaz

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Because a team trading for him may.can guarantee him a starting job. FA is a crap shoot. He may only find backup jobs and/or minor league contract/spring training invite.
Huh? So, the team trading for him might guarantee him a starting job ... but those same teams wouldn't make the same guarantee when he's free agent?
 

BaseballJones

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Hosmer may accept a trade because maybe he feels like the Sox are doing him a solid here, and he may as well do them a solid in return, allowing them to get *something* for him, even as he ends up going to a team that works for him.

Not everyone or every roster move is 100% selfish and business only.
 

BigJay

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Huh? So, the team trading for him might guarantee him a starting job ... but those same teams wouldn't make the same guarantee when he's free agent?
Not necessarily, they may be willing to guarantee him a staring job, but only with SD paying the contract. He becomes a FA then they have to sign him to a new deal and pay him even if its only a min deal. Things can also change over the course of a few days, and they make take it as a slight he spurned them initially.
 

E5 Yaz

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Not necessarily, they may be willing to guarantee him a staring job, but only with SD paying the contract. He becomes a FA then they have to sign him to a new deal and pay him even if its only a min deal. Things can also change over the course of a few days, and they make take it as a slight he spurned them initially.
Okay, I see that ... then again, I'm tired
 

billy ashley

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folks eager to drop Hernandez must know about some other high minors left handed relievers that I've been unable to locate on Soxprospects.com.

It's a huge organizational gap, right now.
 

billy ashley

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FWIW, I think there has to be another move coming shortly.

I think Hosmer + Dalbec would have been an acceptable cheap "platoon" option if the Red Sox had spent big on Xander. Hosmer is pretty meh against both righties and lefties whereas Dalbec can be downright useful against lefties. It wouldn't have been good, but it could have approached acceptable.

Something else is probably up.

As Ale Xander points out, DH is still young (he was also fantastic in the winter league) he's missed bats at a high clip in the majors and high minors. It doesn't not make sense to DFA him. As I stated a few posts up, the organization also happens to be super thin on left-handed relievers.
 

simplicio

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Yes, Darwinzon is still young and yes, we lack LHP relief depth. But he's also managed to be worse every year of his career. His lowest W/9 rate is 7 and his lowest WHIP is 1.5.

I was a fan when he first started, but unless they have some secret sauce to turn him back into the guy he was 4 years ago, I'll take a bad matchup from a RHP over seeing him back in Boston every time.
 

scottyno

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This thread will look pretty silly in a few weeks when they've signed whoever and probably dropped Ort and or Hernandez anyway.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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This was what I was thinking was the case, but I couldn't find it anywhere, so thank you for posting.

I'm not sure the Sox find a deal for Hosmer, but with the above, that's ok. Hosmer would probably prefer free agency. He gets some say in where he plays and takes a shot at getting a deal for more than league minimum.

I was of the opinion that he wouldn't be on the roster come spring training, he was always a poor fit with Casas around. His bat is nothing special, so the thought of him getting DH at bats against righties did not excite me and I think they can find a better player to take his spot on the roster. Not getting anything in return for him is a little disappointing, but teams weren't going to offer anything interesting for him at this point in his career. Cut bait, find a better fit and move on.
 

OCD SS

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I'm not sure the Sox find a deal for Hosmer, but with the above, that's ok. Hosmer would probably prefer free agency. He gets some say in where he plays and takes a shot at getting a deal for more than league minimum.
Hosmer is only going to get paid his current contract, all of which but the league minimum is being paid by the Padres.

It’s probably interesting to note that what’s going on with Hosmer now is likely the fate of some of the guys signing these extra long contracts in 8 - 10 years or so.
 

Trlicek's Whip

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Mills is an intriguing guy -- throws sidearm, had a decent pedigree (third-round pick), can get righties and grounders. Plus he has an option. Throw him in the "Find Me Another John Schreiber" pile with Ort, Kelly, etc. Well worth the roster spot over someone who isn't going to play.
Agreed. Watched a lot of KC games in 2022 and Mills was competitive and passing the eye test in his appearances, FWIW. Not a game-changing arm but someone that has a different look in the pen that was working for him; he might add more than fungible depth in the Sox pen, for nothing.

I never saw Hosmer as anything other than a band-aid rental last season. If they really had no plans to keep him it makes sense to DFA him now so he can find another team sooner than (say) a cut in ST. (And possibly get some value in a league-minimum, San Diego Padres-subsidized trade).

But I see the argument for keeping him insurance-wise, and intangibles-wise - maybe in another universe he's in Fort Myers next spring with the Sox and mentoring Casas etc.
 

A Bad Man

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Might be worth mentioning that Bloom got Jacob Wallace in the Pillar trade to the Rockies in 2020.
 

mauf

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Chaim seems to be making this move with an eye toward human interests — delivering a vote of confidence to Casas, giving Hosmer time to try to catch on elsewhere. Because there are plenty of conceivable scenarios where Hosmer would be a useful piece on the Opening Day 26-man, even if a major 1B/DH signing is in the works, and he’s therefore more useful than a couple others who kept their 40-man spots.

Could be that there are a few planned signings that will push all the bubble guys into DFA-land, and cutting Hosmer first is a courtesy to a guy who waived a NTC to come here and appeared to say and do the right things during his short tenure. But who knows at this point.
 

bosox1534

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I’m assuming they will trade hosmer to either get back a lottery prospect or include him in a larger deal because as for the moment it makes no sense to DFA a free player that could be used to further Casas’s growth and cost little to nothing. I know he wasn’t great but I feel like his value trumped some others on the 26 (Brasier).
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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It makes no sense? It makes perfect sense. Keeping a light hitting Lh 1b to back up a better hitting Lh 1b makes no sense, even if they both went to the same high school. With short benches these days, you can’t keep a player whose only path to any kind of playing time is if the guy in front of him got hurt. Glad they are dumping Hosmer now and not trying to reach him how to play RF or something.
 

bosox1534

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It makes no sense? It makes perfect sense. Keeping a light hitting Lh 1b to back up a better hitting Lh 1b makes no sense, even if they both went to the same high school. With short benches these days, you can’t keep a player whose only path to any kind of playing time is if the guy in front of him got hurt. Glad they are dumping Hosmer now and not trying to reach him how to play RF or something.
I’m saying with the current roster obviously. Is it really worth it to have Duran up? The DFA is confusing because if you’re gonna only have him for 14 games of a lost season why even bother giving up Groome in the first place. I’m sure they will make more moves but if it’s just a straight up DFA that’s a poor move imo.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Hosmer is only going to get paid his current contract, all of which but the league minimum is being paid by the Padres.

It’s probably interesting to note that what’s going on with Hosmer now is likely the fate of some of the guys signing these extra long contracts in 8 - 10 years or so.
Even if he becomes a free agent? I admit, I'm not up on all the rules on this.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Hosmer may accept a trade because maybe he feels like the Sox are doing him a solid here, and he may as well do them a solid in return, allowing them to get *something* for him, even as he ends up going to a team that works for him.

Not everyone or every roster move is 100% selfish and business only.
This is what I’m hoping for as well.

Now, let’s see what we can get for Heathcliff Slocumb. We need P and C help.
 

chawson

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I’m gonna wait to see what happens, but it’ll be a little obnoxious if we can’t trade him for something.

Hosmer, while not good, projects for a .286/.340/.431 line next year per ZIPS. That’s not a good DH, but it’s the best we’ve got right now, and it doesn’t account for any bump that he (and his 56 percent GB%) might get with a shift ban.

So who do we got lined up as a better DH? Hosmer’s projected slash line is considerably higher than what Trey Mancini put up the past two years. It’s better than Wil Myers. J.D. Martinez is a likely better bet if his September rebound is real, but he’s likely moving on.

There’s no real downside to letting Hosmer go for nothing, and for all we know he may have requested a DFA to sign on as someone’s 1B rather than be our DH. I’ve never been a fan to begin with, but it does seem like a weird chain of events.