Rebirth of a Sale, man

[BaseballJones]

Sale's run here is looking very... Pedro-esque.

Last 7 games: 44.0 ip, 22 h, 1 r, 1 er, 6 bb, 79 k, 0.20 era, 0.64 whip, 16.2 k/9

Last 10 games: 65.0 ip, 33 h, 5 r, 5 er, 12 bb, 109 k, 0.69 era, 0.69 whip, 15.1 k/9

Unconscious.

EDIT: Not that you can do this (but watch me!), but he had a two-game blip from May 27-Jun 1, where he gave up 11 h and 10 r in just 10.1 ip. Aside from that, his season line is:

21 g, 135.2 ip, 80 h, 24 r, 22 er, 29 bb, 205 k, 1.46 era, 0.80 whip, 13.6 k/9

Good lord.

 

[Sprowl]

Thanks, but still a missed opportunity that it's not "Love for Sale."

Last seven starts: 79 strikeouts, one run allowed. Is that good?

Meh, not bad. Our standards have gone up.

There have been so many Love for Sale game threads that a new motif is called for, or (in this case) no motif at all.

 

[DanoooME]

Meh, not bad. Our standards have gone up.

There have been so many Love for Sale game threads that a new motif is called for, or (in this case) no motif at all.

I'm partial to Sale of the Century myself being a game show fan.

 

[koufax32]

Why wouldn't he make next start?

If no other starter were skipped Sale would be in line to start Sunday vs. TB making him miss CLE. It would also have occurred on 6 days rest after a super short outing.

 

[LesterFan]

They've already said Sale is going Sunday, with Johnson on Friday and Price on Saturday.

 

[cleanturtle]

I'm partial to Sale of the Century myself being a game show fan.

In the immediate aftermath of his return from the DL, I'd go with "Sale (No Longer) Away."

 

[Byrdbrain]

They've already said Sale is going Sunday, with Johnson on Friday and Price on Saturday.

Interesting, when I looked earlier mlb.com had them skipping Johnson and Sale going Saturday but now they just have Porcello and Eovoldi the next 2 days and TBD after that.
I'm looking online to see a statement regarding upcoming starters but can't find it, I can't say it surprises me they would hold him off though.

 

[koufax32]

Interesting, when I looked earlier mlb.com had them skipping Johnson and Sale going Saturday but now they just have Porcello and Eovoldi the next 2 days and TBD after that.
I'm looking online to see a statement regarding upcoming starters but can't find it, I can't say it surprises me they would hold him off though.

Maybe they’re not doing it from a rest perspective but from a desire to keep CLE from seeing him in case they meet in the postseason?
Coming off less than 70 pitches and having five days off to boot is not exactly taxing him.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

So with Severino spitting the bit, who are Sale's top Cy Young competitors right now? Bauer, Verlander, Cole, and Kluber, with maybe an outside shot for Edwin Diaz if he gets 60+ saves and the Mariners make the playoffs?

Assuming health (and knocking wood), I have to think Sale's in clear pole position right now. He's on the best team; he's the clear ace on his own staff (unlike the HOU and CLE guys); and he's got the best stats pretty much across the board, including some historic ones over the last month. Plus I'd guess he has some accumulated "bridesmaid brownie points" for being close in each of the last six seasons (#6, #5, #3, #4, #5, #2). Fingers and toes crossed, of course...

 

[LesterFan]

Interesting, when I looked earlier mlb.com had them skipping Johnson and Sale going Saturday but now they just have Porcello and Eovoldi the next 2 days and TBD after that.
I'm looking online to see a statement regarding upcoming starters but can't find it, I can't say it surprises me they would hold him off though.

@MikeSilvermanBB
It will be Porcello and Eovaldi in Philly, w Johnson starting Friday vs. Tampa, then Price Saturday and Sale on Sunday.

 

[tims4wins]

@MikeSilvermanBB
It will be Porcello and Eovaldi in Philly, w Johnson starting Friday vs. Tampa, then Price Saturday and Sale on Sunday.

Good. This is what a 10 game lead (and 2 off days this week) affords you to be able to do. Sale took 2+ weeks off, threw 68 pitches, and won't start again for another week.

Edit: last year Sale made his 25th start in team game #122. 2,748 pitches at that point

This year, Sale just made his 23rd start in team game #120. 2,292 pitches at this point. When you add in the spring training rest (plus fewer pitches in the AS game), he is around 500 less pitches than at the same point last year. As was pointed out in the "Saving Sale" thread, many of these pitches saved are the pitches in the 105th-115th pitch of the game range, which would seem to be the highest stress pitches (maybe). Seems significant.

 

[SirPsychoSquints]

So with Severino spitting the bit, who are Sale's top Cy Young competitors right now? Bauer, Verlander, Cole, and Kluber, with maybe an outside shot for Edwin Diaz if he gets 60+ saves and the Mariners make the playoffs?

Assuming health (and knocking wood), I have to think Sale's in clear pole position right now. He's on the best team; he's the clear ace on his own staff (unlike the HOU and CLE guys); and he's got the best stats pretty much across the board, including some historic ones over the last month. Plus I'd guess he has some accumulated "bridesmaid brownie points" for being close in each of the last six seasons (#6, #5, #3, #4, #5, #2). Fingers and toes crossed, of course...

ESPN's Cy Young Predictor (does this use Bill James's formula?) says Sale/Bauer/Kluber/Treinen/Diaz/Kimbrel.
Using Tango's formula it's Bauer/Sale then a gap then Verlander/Kluber/Cole/Snell.
I can't access betting websites on my work computer

 

[manny]

ESPN's Cy Young Predictor (does this use Bill James's formula?) says Sale/Bauer/Kluber/Treinen/Diaz/Kimbrel.
Using Tango's formula it's Bauer/Sale then a gap then Verlander/Kluber/Cole/Snell.
I can't access betting websites on my work computer

ESPN's doesn't seem all that great - borderline useless. Hard to see Kimbrel ahead of Verlander, Snell (and no Cole at all). Also, in the NL, it has deGrom #9 - behind Zach Godley (and others) and barely ahead of Lester.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Oh yeah, I forget Treinen — the A's get no respect! I assume he and Diaz will split any reliever protest vote, so I think we can pretty safely boot them both, barring something really weird happening simultaneously to all five eligible starters. (And LOL @ Kimbrel's inclusion.)

On the more pressing topic: I know given Sale's history it's assumed that "less is more" where pitch counts are concerned, but is there any concern that if he keeps at his current leisurely pace of 70-80 pitches a week, he might not be adequately stretched out for the playoffs, when we'll ideally want him for ~100-110 pitches every fifth day, with potentially a high-leverage batter or inning in between starts?

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Price also gets the 6 days of rest.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

On the more pressing topic: I know given Sale's history it's assumed that "less is more" where pitch counts are concerned, but is there any concern that if he keeps at his current leisurely pace of 70-80 pitches a week, he might not be adequately "stretched out" for the playoffs, when we'll ideally want him for ~100-110 pitches every fifth day?

I assume that a) he won't be limited to 70-80 pitches going forward (probably 90-100) and b) even if he is for the next couple weeks, they will ramp him back up in September so he goes into the post-season adequately stretched.

 

[chawson]

Sale back to the DL.

 

[Koji’s Slider]

I really hope they are being extra cautious. There is no reason to take unnecessary risks, we have a ten game lead in the division.

 

[Reverend]

Can we change this thread title? Scared the shit out of me seeing it pop back up.

Me, too! Change it!!!!

Thread title revised.

le sigh

 

[Reverend]

I really hope they are being extra cautious. There is no reason to take unnecessary risks, we have a ten game lead in the division.

I assume they are. The question is: Is he also injured?

 

[scotian1]

What is going on, I am truly scared.

 

[budcrew08]

Lots of questions, very few answers

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[donutogre]

This is not great.

I’ve never been a big believer in the ‘phantom DL’ thing that’s been bandied about here. If there was nothing wrong with Sale outside of them wanting to get some rest, they could skip a start here and there, limit his innings, etc. etc. Not send him to the DL, bring him back, and send him down again.

I guess it’s possible something isn’t wrong with him, but I cannot help but be concerned that something’s wrong here.

 

[Max Power]

I'm sure we'll hear, "If this were October..."

 

[MillarTime]

JFC...I am now concerned

 

[The Filthy One]

He must be having trouble bouncing back from starts. He looked healthy as hell last week, but maybe he woke up sore after that and can’t shake it.

If that’s true (which is obviously pure conjecture on my part), can he pitch in October?

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Hmm... I have tickets to tomorrow's game. I guess we're getting the Hector Velasquez experience?

 

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I’m honestly not that worried. Based on how he looked in that last start there is clearly nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder. Is his shoulder sore? No doubt. Can he pitch through it? Apparently so if necessary. It’s just completely unnecessary right now. If this were September and the rosters were expanded they’d just skip a start or two

 

[The Big Red Kahuna]

I’m honestly not that worried. Based on how he looked in that last start there is clearly nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder. Is his shoulder sore? No doubt. Can he pitch through it? Apparently so if necessary. It’s just completely unnecessary right now. If this were September and the rosters were expanded they’d just skip a start or two

$50 coming your way

 

[Al Zarilla]

Son of the bitch shit! Besides the team goals, he must be livid about another possible CY that may be circling the drain.

 

[RIrooter09]

Son of the bitch shit! Besides the team goals, he must be livid about another possible CY that may be circling the drain.

His primary competition (Bauer) is expected to be on the DL even longer.

 

[pk1627]

It’s got to be serious to miss the Rays...

 

[Al Zarilla]

His primary competition (Bauer) is expected to be on the DL even longer.

True, but Bauer has a lower leg issue, nothing near his arm. Cole and Verlander are lurking. OK, to hell with the CY Young, it’s all about the World Series, I’m sure even with Sale.

 

[luckysox]

Oh man. Please, Chris Sale’s shoulder, please get better.

 

[TeddyBallgame9]

True, but Bauer has a lower leg issue, nothing near his arm. Cole and Verlander are lurking. OK, to hell with the CY Young, it’s all about the World Series, I’m sure even with Sale.

Yeah, Sale seems like a guy who doesn’t give two fucks about winning the CY.

 

[tims4wins]

I mean it’s been so awesome those 3 times Brady won MVP and lost in the playoffs

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It might be something as simple as the Sox giving some guys an extra look because they aren’t happy with 1 or 2 of the current guys in the rotation/pen. Obviously the number one reason is to limit his innings. I highly doubt this injury is legitimate. However I’d be stunned if he’s back before September 1st when rosters expand to manipulate the roster count for the playoffs.

 

[dcmissle]

Why I try to live in the moment and enjoy the ride. And for the first time, it’s working.

“Deserve” has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Reverend]

I’m honestly not that worried. Based on how he looked in that last start there is clearly nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder. Is his shoulder sore? No doubt. Can he pitch through it? Apparently so if necessary. It’s just completely unnecessary right now. If this were September and the rosters were expanded they’d just skip a start or two

I'm kinda grooving on the idea that the last month or two is actually evidence that a hurt but not structurally injured Sale is still the best damn pitcher on the planet.

 

[koufax32]

He was out for a couple weeks then pitched less than 70 pitches on his return. Now he’s back out again.
He’s not exactly sounding ready to go 115-120 pitches when he returns.

 

[uncannymanny]

Maybe all the “why couldn’t he pitch more than 68 pitches?!” folks can weigh in here.

 

[dcmissle]

Going nowhere near a bridge railing, but Sale and the RS have a strong shared interest in melting that magic number and Sale has a strong personal interest in not being seen as Stephen Strasburg’s body double when the day comes he hits FA.

So although I don’t know what it is exactly, it’s not nuthin’.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

Not structural?

Up 10.5?

Trying to keep Sale way more rested than previous years?

*yawn*

 

[RG33]

The 10-day DL changes things with teams now. This is basically them skipping a start or two and resting him for the postseason. It allows them to bring someone up for the bullpen/lineup without just resting him. This is the SP1 version of resting Mookie or Bene on random days — Cora Style — and thinking about the long haul. I like it.

**exhale**

 

[Reverend]

Going nowhere near a bridge railing, but Sale and the RS have a strong shared interest in melting that magic number and Sale has a strong personal interest in not being seen as Stephen Strasburg’s body double when the day comes he hits FA.

So although I don’t know what it is exactly, it’s not nuthin’.

Not structural?

Up 10.5?

Trying to keep Sale way more rested than previous years?

*yawn*

Not to cross the streams and for sure not wanting to litigate projection systems, but if the Red Sox collapse and don't make the playoffs, it will involve so many more problems than Sale that this thread will seem like, if not a fond memory, a relatively benign one.

I like how Cora & Co. are running this ship. Like, any single incident taken in isolation may seem suspect, but this train...

 

[pokey_reese]

If it were really a phantom injury designed to get him rest, why would they have brought him back to pitch in one game? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Going nowhere near a bridge railing, but Sale and the RS have a strong shared interest in melting that magic number and Sale has a strong personal interest in not being seen as Stephen Strasburg’s body double when the day comes he hits FA.

So although I don’t know what it is exactly, it’s not nuthin’.

Magic number? If they can’t survive a few missed starts by one pitcher with a 10 plus game lead and 39 games left, then they’ve got bigger issues.

Sale’s personal interest is in not being fried by the playoffs again. Just so happens that the Sox have the same interest.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

You know a cynical man might note that for starting pitchers a 10 day DL with 3 retro days is a bit of a scam. For one start you get 7 days of another player.

For a team with a good lead in August ....

 

[LogansDad]

Yeah, I'm more concerned now than I was before, but I have to say that I love that this team I willing to have players not "play through it". Obviously, where they are in the standings has a lot to do with them being able to do this, but it's nice to see them give guys rest and time to heal, instead of "manning up" and playing through it (I'm looking at you, X).