Realignment 2021: UT, OU to SEC; UH, UCF, UC, BYU to Big 12

RedOctober3829

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Texas and Oklahoma, the founding members of the Big 12, are leaving the league - and barring any unforeseen developments, will join the Southeastern Conference, a high-level source close to the situation told Horns247.
Texas and OU officials plan to inform the Big 12 on Monday that they won’t renew when the league’s grant of rights expire in 2025, a step that clears the path for the SEC to formally consider adding Texas and OU.
Again, barring unforeseen circumstances, an SEC vote on adding Texas and Oklahoma "could move quickly," the source told Horns247.

View: https://twitter.com/ChipBrown247/status/1418590757548662784
 

canderson

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The fact UT and OU discussed this with other conferences for a year and the only leak was an Aggy reporter trying to blow it up is remarkable. Irony is that them trying to blow it up appears to have accelerated it.

Texas and Oklahoma are expected to declare their intention to leave the Big 12 in as soon as "24-48 hours," a prominent Big 12 source told CBS Sports on Friday. The Longhorns and Sooners are set to inform the Big 12 on Monday that they will not be renewing their grant of rights agreement with the conference, Horns247's Chip Brown reports.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/texas-oklahoma-expected-to-declare-intent-to-leave-big-12-in-24-48-hours-with-sec-as-landing-spot/
 

absintheofmalaise

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Having grown up during the SWC days I'm looking forward to annual games against the Cow Patties again and to playing the Frying Pans regularly. If this comes to pass of course.
 

canderson

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Having grown up during the SWC days I'm looking forward to annual games against the Cow Patties again and to playing the Frying Pans regularly. If this comes to pass of course.
What are piggy's general thoughts? We've all seen aggy go ballistic which is par the course, I'd think you guys would be happy to get Texas back into the schedule for recruiting purposes permanently.
 

absintheofmalaise

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What are piggy's general thoughts? We've all seen aggy go ballistic which is par the course, I'd think you guys would be happy to get Texas back into the schedule for recruiting purposes permanently.
As a transplant living in GA for the past 30 years I'm happy about it. I like kicking the cow patties' ass in all sports. I have no idea what people there think. I'll see what I can find out. Oklahoma I don't really care about.
 

JoePoulson

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I love it. 16 team super conferences were inevitable, so glad the SEC got those two programs. One rumor is 4x4 divisions, with the Hogs being in with Missouri, UT and OU...feels like being in the SWC again haha (I know Missouri and OK weren't in the SWC, just has that feel...def doesn't feel like SEC).
 

swiftaw

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So KU and KSU to Big Ten? Where does OK state end up? You’d have to figure some will end up in the PAC-12 right?
 

swiftaw

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I don’t think KSU has the academic prowess for the Big 10. Iowa State is an AAU school which makes more sense imo.
I have vague recollection of Kansas having a state law that says KU and KSU have to be in the same conference, but I could be misremembering.
 

canderson

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I had actually forgotten Texas leads piggy 56-22 in the football head-to-head. It’s a shame about that 2014 Texas Bowl asskicking. Fucking Charlie Strong.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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I’m curious about how far out this affects schedules. We’ve got games scheduled out as far as 2033, and I’m assuming those deals are signed. We’ve got Bama in ‘22 and ‘23, Michigan in ‘24 and ‘27, Bucky in ‘25 and ‘26, Georgia in ‘28 and ‘29, and Florida in ‘30 and ‘31. Some of those, clearly, become conference games, meaning the SEC teams on that list all have to add new non-conference games (assuming the current scheduling conventions are preserved). And how will it affect the other eight teams left in the rump Big 12 (assuming the conference survives, which is not at all clear). I’m sure they’ve worked a lot of this out already, but I’m really curious to see how it works out.
 

JoePoulson

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I had actually forgotten Texas leads piggy 56-22 in the football head-to-head. It’s a shame about that 2014 Texas Bowl asskicking. Fucking Charlie Strong.
Yea it's never been a particularly close rivalry, and most of the time the Hogs can't handle prosperity and find a way to lose if leading. Occasionally the Hogs surprise everyone and beat a ranked Texas team, but that's just who the Hogs are against most everyone anyway. Gotta be a realist, adding UT and OU is awesome but the Hogs will mostly lose to them. I was fortunate enough the only game I've attended in Austin was back in 2003, when UT was ranked #5 and the Hogs went in there and spanked that ass 38-28 behind Matt Jones and Cedric Cobbs. So much fun and I got SO sunburnt. It was a brutally hot Texas day and they ran out of water in like 4 minutes, zero shade, etc.
 

canderson

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Yea it's never been a particularly close rivalry, and most of the time the Hogs can't handle prosperity and find a way to lose if leading. Occasionally the Hogs surprise everyone and beat a ranked Texas team, but that's just who the Hogs are against most everyone anyway. Gotta be a realist, adding UT and OU is awesome but the Hogs will mostly lose to them. I was fortunate enough the only game I've attended in Austin was back in 2003, when UT was ranked #5 and the Hogs went in there and spanked that ass 38-28 behind Matt Jones and Cedric Cobbs. So much fun and I got SO sunburnt. It was a brutally hot Texas day and they ran out of water in like 4 minutes, zero shade, etc.
I’m excited for the basketball games. Even though I have to hate Arkansas, I’ve always been fond of the running razorbacks.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Emmett spoke recently about the decentralization of the NCAA in an attempt to protect it. What if a Super Conference such as the SEC began growing their conference to where they no longer needed the NCAA while going out on their own complete with player comp and recruiting more schools? They already have their own network and surely the major networks would be interested. Thoughts?
 

Dan Murfman

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5 years ago Big 12 was looking at possibly expanding and of course in the end didn’t. Jamie Pollard the Iowa State had some interesting comments about why they didn’t do it.

At 10, we give ourselves a lot more flexibility down the road versus adding maybe members that would only clutter up the process. People say, 'In eight years, Texas and Oklahoma are going to bolt.' Well, if we added teams and forced it on them, I guarantee they'd bolt. So that's a part of this process that people aren't thinking about.

The Big 12 exists because we have Texas and Oklahoma in the room. If we take Texas and Oklahoma out of the room, we're the Mountain West Conference, and we're getting $3 million [in annual TV revenue, a drastic decrease]. We've got two star players, whether people want to like that or not: Texas and Oklahoma.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/10/19/13329020/big-12-expansion-conference-realignment-iowa-state
 

BaseballJones

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Emmett spoke recently about the decentralization of the NCAA in an attempt to protect it. What if a Super Conference such as the SEC began growing their conference to where they no longer needed the NCAA while going out on their own complete with player comp and recruiting more schools? They already have their own network and surely the major networks would be interested. Thoughts?
Fascinating. I mean, why should SEC schools be governed by the NCAA at all? Why can't they just form their own collegiate league with their own rules? Pay players? Sure. No (or much lower) GPA requirements? Why not? Partnership deals with pro leagues? Absolutely. What could the NCAA possibly do about it?

Other schools from other NCAA conferences might not want to play them in anything (so no field hockey between Arkansas and Ohio State; no T&F between LSU and Stanford), but would the SEC really care? Maybe they wouldn't want to go THIS far, but.....if they add enough members....maybe they would.
 

Ale Xander

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Fascinating. I mean, why should SEC schools be governed by the NCAA at all? Why can't they just form their own collegiate league with their own rules? Pay players? Sure. No (or much lower) GPA requirements? Why not? Partnership deals with pro leagues? Absolutely. What could the NCAA possibly do about it?

Other schools from other NCAA conferences might not want to play them in anything (so no field hockey between Arkansas and Ohio State; no T&F between LSU and Stanford), but would the SEC really care? Maybe they wouldn't want to go THIS far, but.....if they add enough members....maybe they would.
Arkansas doesn’t have field hockey
Most SEC schools I don’t think have it
 

Ale Xander

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Well you get the point, I hope.
Not really no

If I want to watch basketball or field hockey or soccer or lacrosse, I’ll watch acc
If I want to watch softball or water polo, I’ll watch pac12
If I want to watch to watch football, I’ll watch sec
 
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BaseballJones

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Not really no

If I want to watch basketball or field hockey or lacrosse, I’ll watch acc
If I want to watch softball or water polo, I’ll watch pac12
If I want to watch to watch football, I’ll watch sec
Yeah looks like you missed the point. Which was that if the SEC formed this non-NCAA superconference, they might not end up playing schools NOT in the SEC super conference in these sports, so you wouldn't see matchups like LSU vs. Stanford in track and field, or (insert sport here). I threw in field hockey off the top of my head but it could have been any sport that would work.
 

Ale Xander

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Yeah looks like you missed the point. Which was that if the SEC formed this non-NCAA superconference, they might not end up playing schools NOT in the SEC super conference in these sports, so you wouldn't see matchups like LSU vs. Stanford in track and field, or (insert sport here). I threw in field hockey off the top of my head but it could have been any sport that would work.
Why does anyone care about that? Arkansas is better than Stanford anyway in t&f

if people watch sec sports, adding Texas helps (or not hurts) in every sport.

only games I can see someone caring is perhaps Kentucky not playing Louisville or Indiana in basketball but Texas more than makesit up in football, not even counting the rest of the sports it boosts
And Oklahoma is a huge boost in gymnastics, softball and baseball too.
 
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BaseballJones

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Why does anyone care about that? Arkansas is better than Stanford anyway in t&f

if people watch sec sports, adding Texas helps (or not hurts) in every sport.
The schools might care about it. It might be a real bummer if NC State can't play Vanderbilt in baseball. It might be a real bummer if Kentucky can't play North Carolina in basketball. It might be a real bummer if LSU can't compete against Oregon in T&F.

But whatever - I don't think you're really getting my point.
 

Ale Xander

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The schools might care about it. It might be a real bummer if NC State can't play Vanderbilt in baseball. It might be a real bummer if Kentucky can't play North Carolina in basketball. It might be a real bummer if LSU can't compete against Oregon in T&F.

But whatever - I don't think you're really getting my point.
Rest of the NCAA needs SEC more then SEC needs the rest of NCAA
Texas is a such a bigger deal for baseball than NC State, my friend.
You can’t award true national championship in football, baseball, softball, gymnastics, volleyball, basketball, golf, track, tennis, swimming etc if you don’t invite these 16 SEC schools
 

Awesome Fossum

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Beyond serving as a PR firewall, the only thing the NCAA really offers the SEC is the structure to collude with other conferences and schools to restrict athlete compensation.

Also, there's no law that says an independent SEC team couldn't play against an NCAA team. The Red Sox play Boston College.
 

grsharky7

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Dan Wetzel made a great point recently about the landscape of college football, the ADs and schools have made fans care about money that isn't ours. The idea being that fans should care about rivalries and conference championships rather than the ability to pay an assistant strength coach a million plus.

Obviously this is all about money, power, and recruiting, but has expansion really benefitted most of the teams that have moved? Sure they get more money and that leads to better facilities and what not but does it translate to wins and championships? If you take a look at the expansion in modern college football, the answer is not really.

ACC
BC: Went 49-17 in their first 5 years in the ACC. They've gone 63-74 since 2010.
Syracuse: 38-59 since joining the ACC.
Pitt: 61-47 since joining the ACC.
Louisville: 48-40 since the ACC
VT: Won 10 games a year the first 8 years in the ACC. Lots of BCS games in that timeframe as well. Since 2012 67-49 overall record.
Miami: Their pre-ACC record speaks for itself, tons of wins and national titles. 129-85 since joining the ACC. One 10 win season and no conference titles.

B10
Maryland: 28-49 since entering the B10
Rutgers: 71-44 from 2005-2013, which historically for Rutger is well above average. Enters the B10 in 2014 and since has gone 22-58.
Nebraska: From the inception of the B12 in 1996 and through 2010 they had 9 wins or more in 11 seasons. Nebraska won 9 games or more their first four seasons in the B10. Since 2015, 31-39.

Big 12
WVU: From 2002-2011 won no less than 8 games a year, 3 BCS game wins. Have won 8 or more games 3 times since joining the B12.
TCU: I wont really go through all of their numbers since their jump was from G5 to a power conference.

Pac 12
Colorado: 43-75 since joining the Pac 12.
Utah: Moved into a power conference so a plus for them, a seat at the table.

SEC:
Missouri: Was pretty bad their first season in the SEC (5-7). But then had back to back great seasons in 2013 and 2014 going 23-5 combined. Since 2015 though, 35-36.
Texas A&M: Went 20-6 in first two SEC seasons, had Manziel win the Heisman and beat Bama in T-town. Has gone 57-31 since and seem to have it on the upswing under Jimbo, but will now have to contend with UT and OU again.

Now I'm sure OU and Texas will be fine in the SEC, they both have the cache to be successful anywhere. However, what about the middle of the road SEC schools, does this move get them any closer to division titles, conference championships, or even a national championship? Yes Arkansas, Ole Miss, Miss State, Mizzou, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, and Vandy will get more money, but you also have to go through two more high end programs that will always have more resources.

As these conferences become more top heavy it is going to make it harder for mid levels to compete and eventually that will lead to waining interest. Lets face it most power 5 schools already don't really have a shot at national title, what is going to keep them coming back if the gap continues to widen?
 

Ale Xander

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I think it’s funny you include Vandy. They don’t really care about football, they know they don’t have a shot, they just use SEC inclusion to recruit the elite brains, to compete against the Ivies, Emorys, Rices etc.
 

grsharky7

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I think it’s funny you include Vandy. They don’t really care about football, they know they don’t have a shot, they just use SEC inclusion to recruit the elite brains, to compete against the Ivies, Emorys, Rices etc.
I wasn't going to include them but figured why not.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Obviously this is all about money, power, and recruiting, but has expansion really benefitted most of the teams that have moved?
That's true as far as it goes, but now compare the results to the schools that didn't move. Cincinnati would trade places with Louisville if they could, even if that means sacrificing their AAC championships.

The Texas and OUs get to decide between the status quo or jumping; most everyone else doesn't have that luxury. It's either make moves if/when you can or stand still as the ground crumble beneath you.

I definitely think Nebraska and Miami are closer comps. I think Nebraska's fate is something that OU should be mindful of and is why I'm sure they're happy to stay tethered to Texas. I'm not sure Miami would have fared any better in the Big East over the past 15 years, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else feels otherwise.
 

DJnVa

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Fascinating. I mean, why should SEC schools be governed by the NCAA at all? Why can't they just form their own collegiate league with their own rules? Pay players? Sure. No (or much lower) GPA requirements? Why not? Partnership deals with pro leagues? Absolutely. What could the NCAA possibly do about it?
So, it's what? NFL-lite with younger players?
 

grsharky7

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That's true as far as it goes, but now compare the results to the schools that didn't move. Cincinnati would trade places with Louisville if they could, even if that means sacrificing their AAC championships.

The Texas and OUs get to decide between the status quo or jumping; most everyone else doesn't have that luxury. It's either make moves if/when you can or stand still as the ground crumble beneath you.

I definitely think Nebraska and Miami are closer comps. I think Nebraska's fate is something that OU should be mindful of and is why I'm sure they're happy to stay tethered to Texas. I'm not sure Miami would have fared any better in the Big East over the past 15 years, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else feels otherwise.
I agree with you a 100% about Louisville, they've done a great job of elevating their program from C-USA in the 90's to where they are now. I was including them along with all of the others. College sports used to be so much about geography and the schools who were similar to you. Smaller conferences gave more teams a chance, now as the conferences get bigger the haves are really starting to distance themselves even further from the majority of schools. I worry that over time that is not good for the college football product as a whole.
 

canderson

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I agree with you a 100% about Louisville, they've done a great job of elevating their program from C-USA in the 90's to where they are now. I was including them along with all of the others. College sports used to be so much about geography and the schools who were similar to you. Smaller conferences gave more teams a chance, now as the conferences get bigger the haves are really starting to distance themselves even further from the majority of schools. I worry that over time that is not good for the college football product as a whole.
I’m an unabashed Texas fan and agree with this post 100%. Like said unthread, I miss the old SWC even though it’s entirely untenable in today’s corporate collegiate landscape.
 

OCST

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Pro/rep would really work. If there were 10 tiers of 10 FBS schools each, top two in each tier move up, bottom two in each move down (including two down to/up from FCS), only teams in top tier eligible for title, schools would quickly find their level and be incentivized to sink or swim. Three would be no artificial tethering of Texas to Iowa State, or whatever.
 

RedOctober3829

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I’m curious about how far out this affects schedules. We’ve got games scheduled out as far as 2033, and I’m assuming those deals are signed. We’ve got Bama in ‘22 and ‘23, Michigan in ‘24 and ‘27, Bucky in ‘25 and ‘26, Georgia in ‘28 and ‘29, and Florida in ‘30 and ‘31. Some of those, clearly, become conference games, meaning the SEC teams on that list all have to add new non-conference games (assuming the current scheduling conventions are preserved). And how will it affect the other eight teams left in the rump Big 12 (assuming the conference survives, which is not at all clear). I’m sure they’ve worked a lot of this out already, but I’m really curious to see how it works out.
I think if the B12 dissolves it will change the scheduling model. If there are 16 team leagues, I can see each league playing 9-10 league games instead of 8. You would play all teams in your division and 2-3 crossover games. More league games means keeping more money in-house and more attractive games for fans and CFP chances. You may only see teams playing 1-2 nonleague games. The days of playing directional state MAC or CUSA schools or FCS teams may be over. Those schools that count on the money from guarantee games are going to feel the pain big time if this happens.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Lets face it most power 5 schools already don't really have a shot at national title, what is going to keep them coming back if the gap continues to widen?
The same thing that keeps fans rooting for the vast majority of European football clubs - a team can have goals and feel successful without being a contender for a national title. It’s actually one of the things I like most about college sports - if you’re a fan of Duke in basketball or Bama in football sure anything less than a title feels like a failure but if you’re a fan of Ball State or whatever winning the MAC and beating Purdue or something might be a historically great season.