Raiders game goat thread

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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It’s Mac. If the team had a competent QB they’re not even in that position at the end. This defense is being wasted by this pathetic offense. It’s sad when I start to think Patricia hasn’t been given a fair shot because he has a noodle-armed emotionally unintelligent child bitching and moaning about plays instead of executing them.
 

8slim

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I love Rham, but for a guy who’s battled turnover issues his whole career here, throwing a lateral was unfathomably idiotic. Sucks that Meyers doubled down on it, but the lunacy started with Rham.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Lost in the last play of the game madness is forgetting this D gave up a 4th and 10 conversion and it wasn't competitive. Game is over if you can make one stop.
Also lost on that last drive.

There were multiple chances for the Pats coaching staff to call a timeout and give their defense a breather. Judon and Uche were gassed and getting no pressure, but instead, they let Carr just pick on Marcus Jones over and over again on the left sideline.
 

JOBU

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Deathofthebambino

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This just absolutely blows my mind. Like. There should be dedicated, fixed unmanned cameras (like security type) that are on the end lines/sidelines at all times. It’s inexcusable that the league allows this to happen.
I sat there stunned that they didn't have a pylon camera there. IIRC, I saw a game earlier this year where the pylon came had 360 degree field of vision.

As soon as they kept showing the same 2 views, I was like "you're fucking kidding me, these are the only two views, they aren't going to overturn this..." Of course, I still thought he was clearly out. The Pats bailed out the NFL with that lateral play in the end.
 

SMU_Sox

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tims4wins

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Guys the Raiders tying TD happened on 2nd down. What makes anyone think the Pats would have gotten a stop on 3rd or 4th down? Y’all are acting like it was a 4th down play. C’mon.
 

kenneycb

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I'm not giddy, but I guess I'm amazed that my preseason 7-10 pick is still in play. How the hell...

This week's "take" section of Drew Magery's Jambaroo column on Defector discussed teams being dumb by not trying more planned laterals. Maybe Meyers is an avid reader?

Truly insane mistakes by the refs, NE coaches, NE secondary and Meyers to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.
“Planned” being the key operative word and I’m guessing he didn’t cite PFT Commenter for originating that take.
 

JOBU

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Guys the Raiders tying TD happened on 2nd down. What makes anyone think the Pats would have gotten a stop on 3rd or 4th down? Y’all are acting like it was a 4th down play. C’mon.
Thats fair but outside that drive the Patriots defense didn’t allow the raiders to do diddly dick on offense in the second half. I think it’s more probable than not that the patriots hold them than allow the game tying TD. You should be generally aware of that.
 

8slim

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This just absolutely blows my mind. Like. There should be dedicated, fixed unmanned cameras (like security type) that are on the end lines/sidelines at all times. It’s inexcusable that the league allows this to happen.
And yet, with the angles they did have it was still blatantly obvious that his foot was out of bounds.
 

tims4wins

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Thats fair but outside that drive the Patriots defense didn’t allow the raiders to do diddly dick on offense in the second half. I think it’s more probable than not that the patriots hold them than allow the game tying TD. You should be generally aware of that.
They already converted a 4th and 10 on the drive.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The Pats front 4 on defense were totally cooked about 2/3 of the way into that drive.
And with 2 timeouts in their pocket, multiple incomplete passes by the Raiders, it never dawned on the coaching staff to call a timeout and give them a breather. Or you know, figure out a way to stop LV from picking on Marcus Jones over and over again.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I love Rham, but for a guy who’s battled turnover issues his whole career here, throwing a lateral was unfathomably idiotic. Sucks that Meyers doubled down on it, but the lunacy started with Rham.
Huh? Stevenson has 3 fumbles in his time here, only once on a running play.
 

Ale Xander

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I love Rham, but for a guy who’s battled turnover issues his whole career here, throwing a lateral was unfathomably idiotic. Sucks that Meyers doubled down on it, but the lunacy started with Rham.
His lateral was fine, it was Myers that f’ed up and threw to a Raider at midfield with only Mac between him and the endzone
 

Eddie Jurak

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I mean did you watch the team his rookie year? He was literally benched for fumbling. It was a thing.
Going back for over a decade, every Patriots RB who fumbles on a running play gets benched. Reecivers and QBs are allowed to fumble, RBs not so much.
 

worm0082

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I haven’t read this thread yet, and not that it matters, but as Jones was running into the end zone Fox put up a FLAG graphic. Was a flag thrown? For what? They never mentioned it again and everyone was out on the field.
 

Zincman

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I am getting close to being done with him even though his situation has been bad. You?
I remember you and I discussing him during a film study. We agreed he was hard to evaluate because he was mostly throwing with a clean pocket to 3 future NFLers who generally running free. Hard to get a read on his true accuracy and processing skills. Combined with his lack of physical gifts, we agreed he was a high risk choice that we would have passed on. In my mind, I see a suitable NFL backup with little or no chance to be the chief engineer of a highly competitive team.
 

SMU_Sox

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I remember you and I discussing him during a film study. We agreed he was hard to evaluate because he was mostly throwing with a clean pocket to 3 future NFLers who generally running free. Hard to get a read on his true accuracy and processing skills. Combined with his lack of physical gifts, we agreed he was a high risk choice that we would have passed on. In my mind, I see a suitable NFL backup with little or no chance to be the chief engineer of a highly competitive team.
Yes, and while trading up for Fields might not have been worth it I like taking guys with better physical traits. I think Mac might be able to be good in a very good situation. He doesn’t have the mental traits that he needs to overcome his lack of physical skills. He doesn’t see things well. Doesn’t process quickly. He’s had a 3 average to good games this year. Even with a bad line that’s simply not good enough.

I wish my guy would release more all-22 for Richardson. I think they have a shot at drafting him. Once Caddy releases more tape and/or Mark catches up on draft prospects I’ll try to get a nice film session going. We should look at Hooker and Levis too. I’m not as big on them though.
 

Curtis Pride

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Upon further review, I’ve decided that there are three main goats in this game:

1. Mac Jones. The three-play touchdown drive to go ahead 24-17 included a 39-yard pass to a wide open Jakobi Meyers (perhaps a blown coverage). Outside of that pass, his passing numbers were: 12-30, 73 yards, 40% completion rate, 2.43 YPA, 0 TD, 0 INT, 0 sacks, 47.9 passer rating.

Then after that touchdown the Patriots defense forced a three-and-out, and Mac got the ball back with 3:12 left. Rham got two runs for 5 yards, which forced the Raiders to use their last two timeouts. The false start didn’t help, either. Mac faced a 3rd and 10, which if converted would seal the game. He takes the ball and runs for no gain. The Pats run the clock down to 2:19 and then punted. This seemed to highlight Mac’s weaknesses more than anything. First they didn’t seem to have any confidence that Mac could complete a ten-yard pass when they needed one, so they called a bootleg. He had no foot speed, so he got tackled for no gain. All that play did was take a few more seconds off the clock. That play made me feel very bearish on Mac Jones’ development. “Mediocre” is probably his ceiling. I’ll give him another year to see if he can consistently complete a 10-yard pass.

2. Coaching. Everything from the play-calling, the early timeouts, and the false starts show me a disorganized and unprepared offense. Part of it could be attributed to injuries and underperformance of the OL, but it doesn’t seem to explain why they slow getting the play calls in. Maybe they should take a page out of Bill Walsh and script their first fifteen plays. At least they’ll enter the game with some semblance of a plan.

Also, whose bright idea was it to call a prevent defense when the opponent was facing a fourth and 10 on its own 19-yard line, no timeouts, and less than 2 minutes to play? Force an incompletion or get a sack, and the Pats can run the clock out.

3. Jakobi Meyers. Maybe it’s a bit unfair to pin it on him, because Rham inexplicably lateraled the ball to him, but then he decided to run the wrong way and then threw that hideous lateral to no one in particular. What was he thinking? There was no hope of scoring a touchdown on that play, so just step out of bounds and try to win in OT.
 

BigJimEd

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Honorable mention to Bourne for yet another drop. No one to blame but himself for lack of targets and snaps.
 

lexrageorge

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It was most certainly not “fine”. It was brain dead.
It wasn't a terrible play by Rham. There was plenty of help in the immediate vicinity in the event the lateral was fumbled. It was Myers who ran the wrong way that set up the clear path for Chandler Jones to get to the end zone.

Rham has been great for the team this season; without him the game would have been over already. Expecting perfection all the time is going to lead to disappointment.
 

Toe Nash

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  • I expected Crosby to kill the backup tackles but Brown and McDermott were actually pretty good. Mac had time and he was terrible.
  • The goal to go sequence in the second quarter was horrendous. Just run the ball!
  • Situational football was bad all game as has been discussed. It looks like they just don't practice.
  • Blocked punt, inexcusable, again, practice and coaching.
Either the team aren't being coached well or they aren't listening to what the coaches are saying or both. It's not a very talented roster and they're not close to getting the best out of it.

I thought given the angles they had letting the TD stand was the right call, if it had been called the other way on the field that would have been the right call too. Wasn't the reason they lost given that it was 2nd down and it tied the game, those kinds of calls happen and generally even out.
 

NDame616

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It wasn't a terrible play by Rham. There was plenty of help in the immediate vicinity in the event the lateral was fumbled. It was Myers who ran the wrong way that set up the clear path for Chandler Jones to get to the end zone.

Rham has been great for the team this season; without him the game would have been over already. Expecting perfection all the time is going to lead to disappointment.
No one is giving Rham crap for like not busting out a few more yards when he could've. He did one of the dumbest things to ever happen on a football field. It's not "expecting perfection". It's "expecting your star RB to not make a play no one above freshman football would do"

Also, if you watch the play Rham gears up to throw it a half a second before the hit. He lined up in the backfield saying to himself "I need to lateral it to someone before I go down"
 

BigJimEd

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Yes? Over a significant sample size you are going to be about 50/50 for close calls. What are you talking about?
What would you consider a significant sample size? I certainly don't think they even out in a game. And not all 50/50 calls are the same. Do they "even out" eventually? Sure but I'd guess in terms of the number and the effect of calls on the game, it's not within a single game and very possibly not within a season.
 

BaseballJones

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Just to remind everyone who was complaining along the lines of, "Why couldn't the coaches have just told them to go down?"

From: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35283498/patriots-players-say-laterals-were-improvised-smarter

"Why the Patriots were lateraling at all was a surprise, as players said that wasn't what was supposed to happen.

The Patriots had the ball at their 45-yard line with three seconds left and the score tied at 24. Meyers said the instructions in the huddle were straight-forward: "Just run the ball, go down."

That would have sent the game to overtime.

But when running back Rhamondre Stevenson picked up 23 yards on a draw play, he lateraled back to Meyers at around the Raiders' 40-yard line. That was the catalyst for Meyers' own mistake, a lateral more than 10 yards behind him.

"It's not his fault," Meyers said of Stevenson. "He gave me the ball because he trusted me. I have to be smarter with it."

Stevenson took accountability, saying: "The coaches gave us a play just to kind of run the time out, just get down. I feel like I should have did just that. The playcall is just a draw play and nothing more, nothing less than that. I'm supposed to know the situation, I'm supposed to know how much time is on the clock. Critical situations. I failed to do that today."

- - -

So maybe you can quibble with running the ball at all. Just take a knee. Fine. But in every other normal world, running the ball there (which is the kind of thing teams do all the time at the end of halves and games) normally carries very small risk and yet has the small potential of working out for you. But the point is, the coaches DID say to just go down. The players knew it. They just lost their collective minds on that play.

100% blame on the players there.
 

splendid splinter

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Also, if you watch the play Rham gears up to throw it a half a second before the hit. He lined up in the backfield saying to himself "I need to lateral it to someone before I go down"
I don't think that's the case. I think the draw went for way more yardage than he expected, and he had an excited "Holy shit we might win this game right here!!!" moment and made the poor decision to lateral to Meyers, who had a "Holy shit why do I suddenly have the ball?!?" moment and made the very poor decision to throw it back across the field.
 

8slim

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It wasn't a terrible play by Rham. There was plenty of help in the immediate vicinity in the event the lateral was fumbled. It was Myers who ran the wrong way that set up the clear path for Chandler Jones to get to the end zone.

Rham has been great for the team this season; without him the game would have been over already. Expecting perfection all the time is going to lead to disappointment.
There's a big delta between perfection and hucking a lateral over your shoulder like an NBA point guard. It was a horrible, horrible decision on Rham's part.
 

lexrageorge

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No one is giving Rham crap for like not busting out a few more yards when he could've. He did one of the dumbest things to ever happen on a football field. It's not "expecting perfection". It's "expecting your star RB to not make a play no one above freshman football would do"

Also, if you watch the play Rham gears up to throw it a half a second before the hit. He lined up in the backfield saying to himself "I need to lateral it to someone before I go down"
He made a bad play. Nobody is defending the play. I don’t think Rham’s lateral is an egregious mistake as it’s being made out to be, and certainly don’t think he should be cut or benched or Belichick fired because of it. You are free to disagree.
 

BigJimEd

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I never said they would even out in one game. Relax.
I'm relaxed. You should take your advice. Just trying to determine what you meant. I hear it a lot after these calls (in all sports) and people seem to mean different things.

How long do you think it takes for them to "even out" or more importantly what is the significance of them evening out? What do you mean by that?

Is it just that the same number of close plays eventually gets called for a team or against? How long? Or do you mean a team would end up with the same record once it is evened out? I'm dubious of that.
 

8slim

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He made a bad play. Nobody is defending the play. I don’t think Rham’s lateral is an egregious mistake as it’s being made out to be, and certainly don’t think he should be cut or benched or Belichick fired because of it. You are free to disagree.
Has anyone suggested that Stevenson be cut or benched? There was a couple folks saying Meyers should be cut/benched, but that's not the majority.

You did say what Rham did wasn't "terrible", which is objectively wrong. It absolutely was a mistake and he admitted as much.
 

Toe Nash

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I'm relaxed. You should take your advice. Just trying to determine what you meant. I hear it a lot after these calls (in all sports) and people seem to mean different things.

How long do you think it takes for them to "even out" or more importantly what is the significance of them evening out? What do you mean by that?

Is it just that the same number of close plays eventually gets called for a team or against? How long? Or do you mean a team would end up with the same record once it is evened out? I'm dubious of that.
Ok man. I made an offhand comment that close calls even out and you jumped on me. I personally think they probably do over a season or so but it doesn't matter because there is nothing the team can do about it but move on.

What is the point you are making other than you think it takes longer? If you have a study on this please feel free to share.
 

BigJimEd

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Ok man. I made an offhand comment that close calls even out and you jumped on me. I personally think they probably do over a season or so but it doesn't matter because there is nothing the team can do about it but move on.

What is the point you are making other than you think it takes longer? If you have a study on this please feel free to share.
No study and didn't mean to jump on you. Sorry I came across that way.

I originally said I am doubtful as I am dubious the calls "even out" except in that at some vague point in time the number of close calls for and against a team are the same. I don't think the impact and significance of when some of those calls are made evens out and can/has affected a team's record and potential going forward. (see Saints/Vikings)


I was just trying to determine your point of they all even out anyway. What you mean by that phrase. I hear a lot of people say they even out so it doesn't matter; giving the NFL a pass. Obviously, I disagree. it does matter and feel NFL officiating is extremely poor.

I do agree there is nothing a team can do and needs to move forward. In their position they need to move past any close calls they don't like as quickly as possible.

Anyway, I'll drop the tangent and again apologize for the way I cam across. Was not my intention.