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trekfan55

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Opening day in Arizona,

Darvish at 80 something pitches in the6th. With the short Spring Training, methinks he’s not finishing the game regardless.

Through 6 now
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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May 5, 2017
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Another day, another San Diego no-hitter through 5. In his Padres debut, Sean Manaea has allowed 1 base runner on a walk. 66 pitches, 50 strikes... I'm assuming this early in the season that he's getting one more inning. Padres just broke through with two runs against Oliver Perez, who I had no idea was back in the league.
 

normstalls

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Mar 15, 2004
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DO just jinxed it. I can’t believe he said that. I was sure he dodge around it.
 

jon abbey

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Another day, another San Diego no-hitter through 5. In his Padres debut, Sean Manaea has allowed 1 base runner on a walk. 66 pitches, 50 strikes... I'm assuming this early in the season that he's getting one more inning. Padres just broke through with two runs against Oliver Perez, who I had no idea was back in the league.
ARI are collectively 3-44 to start the season, but won last night and still in this one.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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Granted, I don't watch a lot of games featuring cellar-dwelling National League teams in the west, but I've never heard of four guys in Arizona's starting lineup. Cooper Hummel is a 27-year-old who drew a walk in his major league debut yesterday, so he's batting leadoff tonight.

If this was a mid-season game, Manaea might have had a chance to go the distance, but they still got 7 innings out of him on 88 pitches. Instead, they needed six outs from the bullpen and Tim Hill loses the no-hitter in 5 pitches.
 

jon abbey

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ARI now a collective 5-55 in 2 games to start the season, they're not even playing the Dodgers or Giants.
 

cromulence

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Worth keeping in mind that Kershaw missed the playoffs last year with an elbow injury, on top of another elbow injury at the beginning of the season. Would've liked to see him stay in, but I get it.
 

Wingack

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Worth keeping in mind that Kershaw missed the playoffs last year with an elbow injury, on top of another elbow injury at the beginning of the season. Would've liked to see him stay in, but I get it.
They also didn't have him start the year until today. They are trying to conserve his bullets.

But he was making hitters look silly up there.
 

axx

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Jul 16, 2005
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Especially with the abbreviated spring training... it'd be crazy to push it this early. There won't be that many CG for a while.
 

jezza1918

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Red(s)HawksFan

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Do we need to remember what happened to Johan Santana? And that was mid-season, not his first start of the year after an abbreviated spring training coming off an elbow injury. Taking him out was 100% the correct decision.
 

Wingack

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Do we need to remember what happened to Johan Santana? And that was mid-season, not his first start of the year after an abbreviated spring training coming off an elbow injury. Taking him out was 100% the correct decision.
Kluber pushed it last year to get a no-no and then barely pitched the rest of the year.
 

Max Power

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Do we need to remember what happened to Johan Santana? And that was mid-season, not his first start of the year after an abbreviated spring training coming off an elbow injury. Taking him out was 100% the correct decision.
What does one have to do with the other?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Kluber pushed it last year to get a no-no and then barely pitched the rest of the year.
Exactly. And it's not really the concern of whether he can get through the next 20-25 pitches (or whatever it takes) without injury. It's his ability to recover and pitch again in five days. And how the extra strain might affect him a month or two months from now.

Santana went nearly 30 pitches over his season high, and close to 20 pitches over the limit his manager stated before the game. He had a 2.38 ERA for the season through the no-no, 8.27 ERA for the rest of his career (which was all of 49 innings). He was younger than Kershaw is now.
 

Ale Xander

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Exactly. And it's not really the concern of whether he can get through the next 20-25 pitches (or whatever it takes) without injury. It's his ability to recover and pitch again in five days. And how the extra strain might affect him a month or two months from now.

Santana went nearly 30 pitches over his season high, and close to 20 pitches over the limit his manager stated before the game. He had a 2.38 ERA for the season through the no-no, 8.27 ERA for the rest of his career (which was all of 49 innings). He was younger than Kershaw is now.
So Roberts should have taken out Kershaw by pitch 29?

Kershaw being older and probably in his last year is exactly why the risk is so low for Dodgers to keep him in.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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So Roberts should have taken out Kershaw by pitch 29?

Kershaw being older and probably in his last year is exactly why the risk is so low for Dodgers to keep him in.
My point with Santana's pitch count is that he wasn't on a significant pitch limit. He was stretched out, as they say (Kershaw isn't). 115 pitches was what his manager said, which was pretty standard fare in 2002, let alone 2012. He threw 134. He overextended simply to pitch a no-hitter, and it arguably cost him his career.

If we were in September, you'd have a point about Kershaw and his contract. This was the fifth game of the Dodgers' season. I imagine they want him to keep pitching effectively all year instead of sacrificing that for the fleeting glory of a perfect game.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Johan Santana threw 134 pitches. Kershaw was at 80. Why is it correct to take him out at 80, rather than at 70 or 30? The injury risk is there no matter what.
 

Marciano490

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So Roberts should have taken out Kershaw by pitch 29?

Kershaw being older and probably in his last year is exactly why the risk is so low for Dodgers to keep him in.
Dude, he’s a human being, not a science experiment so people can get a little jazz in their early afternoon.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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My point with Santana's pitch count is that he wasn't on a significant pitch limit. He was stretched out, as they say (Kershaw isn't). 115 pitches was what his manager said, which was pretty standard fare in 2002, let alone 2012. He threw 134. He overextended simply to pitch a no-hitter, and it arguably cost him his career.

If we were in September, you'd have a point about Kershaw and his contract. This was the fifth game of the Dodgers' season. I imagine they want him to keep pitching effectively all year instead of sacrificing that for the fleeting glory of a perfect game.
I just don’t get why 80 is the limit. I get having a limit, but why is 80 exactly when you should take him out, why not earlier if they’re that terrified of his arm snapping.

edit: see the sim game tweet about 75 pitches, makes more sense now
 

Marciano490

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I just don’t get why 80 is the limit. I get having a limit, but why is 80 exactly when you should take him out, why not earlier if they’re that terrified of his arm snapping
Maybe the professionals know why, and they’re the ones making the decisions?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Johan Santana threw 134 pitches. Kershaw was at 80. Why is it correct to take him out at 80, rather than at 70 or 30? The injury risk is there no matter what.
I don't know. Why was Eovaldi pulled today after 98? Why didn't he pitch more than five innings? Why are there pitch counts and pitch limits at all? Let's go back to 1964 when pitchers blew their arms out for less than life-changing money.
 

Ale Xander

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My point with Santana's pitch count is that he wasn't on a significant pitch limit. 115 pitches was what his manager said, which was pretty standard fare in 2002, let alone 2012. He threw 134. He overextended simply to pitch a no-hitter, and it arguably cost him his career.

If we were in September, you'd have a point about Kershaw and his contract. This was the fifth game of the Dodgers' season. I imagine they want him to keep pitching effectively all year instead of sacrificing that for the fleeting glory of a perfect game.
There is a huge difference between a no hitter and a perfect game and Santanas perceived future and Kershaws and between 80 and 115.
If Kershaw was too fragile to pitch an 81st pitch why was he even out there?
Why not just put him in bubble wrap and start him later? Dodgers don’t exactly need him for a playoff push.
 

Wingack

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I just don’t get why 80 is the limit. I get having a limit, but why is 80 exactly when you should take him out, why not earlier if they’re that terrified of his arm snapping.

edit: see the sim game tweet about 75 pitches, makes more sense now
Only 6 pitchers so far this year have thrown more than 90 pitches. None have thrown more than 96.

Edit: Those numbers were as of this morning. I see Eovaldi is in that club now.
 

jezza1918

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Can't both sides of this argument be true? In the sense that it was 100% the right move to lift him...but also things like this are a reason why casual fans might be opting out?