Potential Trade Deadline Targets

Tyrone Biggums

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Is there reason to believe he will get back to last year's numbers? Because he's been pretty shitty this year. He missed a month with an elbow injury and hasn't exactly been demonstrating that the struggles were attributable to the injury (5 appearances, 3 innings, 21.00 ERA, .556 OBP against since coming back).
Other than the canned change of scenery excuse maybe not. This is the first bad year he’s had in the bigs and could have something to do with injuries. On the other hand there’s no real downside on gambling on an arm that’s under team control till 2020 and had a couple good years of pitching up to 2018. Plus always room for someone on the left side. Not having a farm makes it tough.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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There's just no reason for them to throw shit at the wall on these castoffs. There are plenty of 6th inning guys in Pawtucket. Would either Holland or Lyons be better than Workman for example?

They don't need JAG's, they need an actual clear ugrade over Joe Kelly or another Matt Barnes type if anything.
I’m not sure Workman should have been optioned. He’s been good since coming back. But something seems to be off with Kelly.
 

ehaz

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Damn. DBacks get Eduardo Escobar for three single A players. He's a guy I would have liked to see.

 

YTF

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Queston for those more familiar with MLB logistics....would it be possible to agree to a trade for PTBNL (knowing it will be Swihart) and then complete the trade after Vazquez has returned? Would Swihart need to be passed thru waivers if the deadline has passed, or just wait until the off-season??
I believe part of the PTBNL rule is that the player cannot have been on the 25 man roster from the time the trade was agreed to when it is completed. Otherwise there would be potential for some serious shenanigans on the part of the team continuing to use a PTBNL before trading him. Which is also why the PTBNL is typically a list of minor league guys to guard against injury situations.
Good question, good answer.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Their #10 and #15 prospects respectively. Sox are running out of options to help this pen out which sorely, sorely needs it. There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen.
if Cora can manage things better it won't be as sore a need. Kimbrel should be banned from spanning an inning.

also who knows, maybe JoKe gets good again at the right time. in any case, we didn't have the prospect depth to match the Britton / Pressly offers.
 

Rasputin

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Their #10 and #15 prospects respectively. Sox are running out of options to help this pen out which sorely, sorely needs it. There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen.
The worst team in baseball is capable of winning a seven-game series against the best team in baseball. That's just how baseball is.

Statements like, "There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen." would be ridiculous, defeatist nonsense even if we went into the postseason with precisely this bullpen which literally everyone knows isn't going to happen.

This is a very good team.

It is not a perfect team.

Aint no such thing as a perfect team.

Let's stop being candy-ass shit-weasels and do this thing.
 

BaseballJones

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Kimbrel going more than 1 inning, before tonight:

2018
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 4 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 1 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 3 k
TOT: 5.1 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 3 bb, 10 k, 0.00 era, 1.13 whip, 16.9 k/9

2017
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 1 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 2 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 5 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 2 k
1.2 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 5 k
2.0 ip, 1 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 5 k
TOT: 11.1 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 3 bb, 25 k, 2.38 era, 0.71 whip, 19.9 k/9

2016
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 4 k
1.1 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 2 k
2.0 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 2 bb, 3 k
TOT: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 1 er, 2 bb, 16 k, 1.23 era, 0.95 whip, 19.6 k/9

So before tonight, in his Red Sox career, when going more than one inning, Craig Kimbrel has put up the following stat line:

24.0 ip, 13 h, 5 r, 4 er, 8 bb, 51 k, 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So it's simply ridiculous to claim - as many have tonight - that Kimbrel is ineffective when spanning two innings. Quite clearly, Kimbrel is as dominant as ever - moreso, in fact - when he is asked to pitch more than one inning. Here's how those numbers compare to his career numbers (before tonight, which is the information Cora had to go on when he made the decision):

Total career: 1.81 era, 0.91 whip, 14.6 k/9
Total 1 inning or less: 1.82 era, 0.91 whip, 14.4 k/9
Total more than 1 inning: 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So historically, Kimbrel has been BETTER going more than one inning than when he goes 1 inning or less.
 

bosockboy

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Their #10 and #15 prospects respectively. Sox are running out of options to help this pen out which sorely, sorely needs it. There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen.
Thornburg is progressing and we have Feltman stowed away. If EdRo gets back add Eovaldi.

We need a lefty and I expect DD to get one.
 

bosockboy

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Relying on a guy coming off TOS and a player who hasn’t pitched above A ball. Eovaldi is intriguing but he’s prone to the HR.
I expect we will make additions, just saying there’s some options. Brasier has been very solid too; tonight was primary dinks and dunks. Losing Smith and Kelly flatlining really has hurt though.
 

Devizier

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If the Twins are selling, would Zach Duke be a decent Ziegler-esque flier for the middle-back of the pen? At this point I'm mainly concerned with injuries (and think Kelly might be hiding one).
 

Byrdbrain

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Kimbrel going more than 1 inning, before tonight:

2018
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 4 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 1 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 3 k
TOT: 5.1 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 3 bb, 10 k, 0.00 era, 1.13 whip, 16.9 k/9

2017
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 1 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 2 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 5 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 2 k
1.2 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 5 k
2.0 ip, 1 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 5 k
TOT: 11.1 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 3 bb, 25 k, 2.38 era, 0.71 whip, 19.9 k/9

2016
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 4 k
1.1 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 2 k
1.1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 0 er, 0 bb, 3 k
1.1 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 2 k
2.0 ip, 1 h, 0 r, 0 er, 2 bb, 3 k
TOT: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 1 er, 2 bb, 16 k, 1.23 era, 0.95 whip, 19.6 k/9

So before tonight, in his Red Sox career, when going more than one inning, Craig Kimbrel has put up the following stat line:

24.0 ip, 13 h, 5 r, 4 er, 8 bb, 51 k, 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So it's simply ridiculous to claim - as many have tonight - that Kimbrel is ineffective when spanning two innings. Quite clearly, Kimbrel is as dominant as ever - moreso, in fact - when he is asked to pitch more than one inning. Here's how those numbers compare to his career numbers (before tonight, which is the information Cora had to go on when he made the decision):

Total career: 1.81 era, 0.91 whip, 14.6 k/9
Total 1 inning or less: 1.82 era, 0.91 whip, 14.4 k/9
Total more than 1 inning: 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So historically, Kimbrel has been BETTER going more than one inning than when he goes 1 inning or less.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, It was kind of shocking how quickly it became an obvious fact that Kimbrel can't pitch in multiple innings.
I didn't like what Cora did in taking out Barnes while he was cruising but lets not make up facts to support a one game anecdote.

Obviously the bullpen could be a problem but there is a long time between now and then and who knows what will happen. There are a few interesting arms that could help out and who knows JoKe could remember how to pitch again.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Thornburg is progressing and we have Feltman stowed away. If EdRo gets back add Eovaldi.

We need a lefty and I expect DD to get one.
Why do we "need" a lefty? I really think it's just a weird false negative. We need a good reliever, the hand he throws with really doesn't matter. The American League is riddled with unreal right handed power. I'd take a lock down righty over lefty right now.
 

joe dokes

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Kimbrel going more than 1 inning, before tonight:

So before tonight, in his Red Sox career, when going more than one inning, Craig Kimbrel has put up the following stat line:

24.0 ip, 13 h, 5 r, 4 er, 8 bb, 51 k, 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So it's simply ridiculous to claim - as many have tonight - that Kimbrel is ineffective when spanning two innings. Quite clearly, Kimbrel is as dominant as ever - moreso, in fact - when he is asked to pitch more than one inning. Here's how those numbers compare to his career numbers (before tonight, which is the information Cora had to go on when he made the decision):

Total career: 1.81 era, 0.91 whip, 14.6 k/9
Total 1 inning or less: 1.82 era, 0.91 whip, 14.4 k/9
Total more than 1 inning: 1.50 era, 0.88 whip, 19.1 k/9

So historically, Kimbrel has been BETTER going more than one inning than when he goes 1 inning or less.
Thanks for doing the leg work.

There may be good reasons to avoid it -- such as the impact on the next game of 33% extra in the previous game. But that's a different question.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I was one of the posters that considered letting Kimbrel go and bringing Kelly in as the closer for next season. If I didn't say "if he continues to pitch throughout the season like he has thus far", then I missed that. I wouldn't have annointed Doug Fister as our "no.2" for 2018 after his great stretch in 2017.
Definitely looking off the mark there.
Injury or not.... I'd guess at this point, with Kelly's salary for next season, he'll be non-tendered even if he turns into Mariano Rivera for the next two months.
 

bosockboy

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Thanks for taking the time to do this, It was kind of shocking how quickly it became an obvious fact that Kimbrel can't pitch in multiple innings.
I didn't like what Cora did in taking out Barnes while he was cruising but lets not make up facts to support a one game anecdote.

Obviously the bullpen could be a problem but there is a long time between now and then and who knows what will happen. There are a few interesting arms that could help out and who knows JoKe could remember how to pitch again.
An article on The Athletic this morning intimated pulling Barnes was due to him being available for 2 outs due to his workload Thursday night. Seems plausible but really underscores how badly not having Kelly right is hurting this pen. Article also states pretty clearly Eovaldi is being envisioned as a high leverage reliever in October.
 

grimshaw

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Why do we "need" a lefty? I really think it's just a weird false negative. We need a good reliever, the hand he throws with really doesn't matter. The American League is riddled with unreal right handed power. I'd take a lock down righty over lefty right now.
I've been saying this for months. If you're a good at baseball and improve the team in a weak spot, then acquire that player. Quality innings are more important than teaming up with Heath Hembree to get 4 outs.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was one of the posters that considered letting Kimbrel go and bringing Kelly in as the closer for next season. If I didn't say "if he continues to pitch throughout the season like he has thus far", then I missed that. I wouldn't have annointed Doug Fister as our "no.2" for 2018 after his great stretch in 2017.
Definitely looking off the mark there.
Injury or not.... I'd guess at this point, with Kelly's salary for next season, he'll be non-tendered even if he turns into Mariano Rivera for the next two months.
I put him in the same class as Barnes and Kimbrel but that was an overreaction. His peripherals were never that great, even last year. He has basically the same BB rate as Matt Barnes (12.4% vs 12.3%, respectively) and doesn't strike out nearly as many batters. A K/BB ratio of less than 2 is pretty bad, and he was less than 2 last year too.

I'd guess Kelly is about a league average bullpen arm.
 

Adrian's Dome

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The worst team in baseball is capable of winning a seven-game series against the best team in baseball. That's just how baseball is.

Statements like, "There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen." would be ridiculous, defeatist nonsense even if we went into the postseason with precisely this bullpen which literally everyone knows isn't going to happen.

This is a very good team.

It is not a perfect team.

Aint no such thing as a perfect team.

Let's stop being candy-ass shit-weasels and do this thing.
Thank you. Christ almighty, this team does not have a bad bullpen.

It is not perfect, but it's good. Really freaking good.

There's no room for defeatist, bullshit statements like "there's no way they even come close to winning a postseason series with the current pen". Kimbrel is one of the best closers of all time. Barnes is having an excellent year, Ks a ton, and is consistently difficult to hit. Hembree Ks a ton and is death on RHH. Thornburg is working his way back and was previously a top setup man. You can't do much better than Johnson/Velazquez for long men/spot starters.

Eovaldi will add another power arm come the postseason.

So Joe Kelly is inconsistent. No team's 5th best reliever is dominant, and if you expect them to be, you have no perspective on what a good or bad bullpen really is.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So Joe Kelly is inconsistent. No team's 5th best reliever is dominant, and if you expect them to be, you have no perspective on what a good or bad bullpen really is.

I think it's because people expected Joe Kelly to be 2b, rather than 5. He's been disappointing. Everything else is true. This team obviously has a chance to win the WS as is.

edit: By 2b, I mean Barnes is 2a. Not Kelly being a 2nd baseman.
 
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Adrian's Dome

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I think it's because people expected Joe Kelly to be 2b, rather than 5. He's been disappointing. Everything else is true. This team obviously has a chance to win the WS as is.
Those people haven't ever watched Joe Kelly pitch over the course of his career, then.
 

joe dokes

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I think it's because people expected Joe Kelly to be 2b, rather than 5. He's been disappointing. Everything else is true. This team obviously has a chance to win the WS as is.

edit: By 2b, I mean Barnes is 2a. Not Kelly being a 2nd baseman.
There's an unfortunate rush to anoint not-closers with innings or bestness.
Who the 2nd best reliever might change. Guys get hot, then they don't. Kelly was the 2nd best guy for awhile. He might be again.
 

BeantownIdaho

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The worst team in baseball is capable of winning a seven-game series against the best team in baseball. That's just how baseball is.

Statements like, "There's no way they even win a postseason series with the current pen." would be ridiculous, defeatist nonsense even if we went into the postseason with precisely this bullpen which literally everyone knows isn't going to happen.

This is a very good team.

It is not a perfect team.

Aint no such thing as a perfect team.

Let's stop being candy-ass shit-weasels and do this thing.

Amen brotha...last winter and spring we were suppose to be out of it by the All-Star break with this team according to most on the board.
 

uncannymanny

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Piling on, I mean Jesus Fucking Christ. The team is breaching 80 wins at the end of July. If you slice up the season into 7 game stretches, from *any* starting date, they’ve lost 4 of 7 twice. Get a fucking grip.
 

Al Zarilla

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Piling on, I mean Jesus Fucking Christ. The team is breaching 80 wins at the end of July. If you slice up the season into 7 game stretches, from *any* starting date, they’ve lost 4 of 7 twice. Get a fucking grip.
Being never satisfied like a typical Red Sox fan, it would be nice to have put the MFY further back in the rear view mirror. Tougher part of the schedule coming up and all.
 

Rasputin

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I've been saying this for months. If you're a good at baseball and improve the team in a weak spot, then acquire that player. Quality innings are more important than teaming up with Heath Hembree to get 4 outs.
That's not necessarily true. We've all seen games--series even--that come down to specific matchups at crucial times.

There's a decent chance we face the Yankees in a postseason series. If Gardner or Gregorius is up with men on in the 6th or 7th, I'm going to want someone who can specifically get them out.

It's not a matter of having hisg who are the best overall, it's a matter of having a collection of guys that give you good options in as many situations as possible.

We have pitchers that might reasonably only go five innings requiring some mixing and matching to get to the strong guys at the end of the bullpen. At some point, a good lefty is going to be up in a big situation and I want the guy to can handle it best. Maybe that's Brasier or Pomeranz, but maybe not, and we've got a deadline staring us in the face.

Also, we're calling Brasier "Manzier" right?
 

grimshaw

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That's not necessarily true. We've all seen games--series even--that come down to specific matchups at crucial times.

There's a decent chance we face the Yankees in a postseason series. If Gardner or Gregorius is up with men on in the 6th or 7th, I'm going to want someone who can specifically get them out.
If the Red Sox acquire a lefty on the market say - Adam Conley vs. a guy like Kelvin Herrera, does that make them a better team. What if you're facing Judge and Stanton in the 7th?

If there's a better pitcher out there who happens to be a lefty then sure, get him. I just don't like running out of good pitchers because you play the match up game so early.
 
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uncannymanny

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Being never satisfied like a typical Red Sox fan, it would be nice to have put the MFY further back in the rear view mirror. Tougher part of the schedule coming up and all.
Sure, it’d be great to win 160 games. The Yankees are just a second place team.
 

Rasputin

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If the Red Sox acquire a lefty on the market say - Adam Conley vs. a guy like Kelvin Herrera, does that make them a better team. What if you're facing Judge and Stanton in the 7th?

If there's a better pitcher out there who happens to be a lefty then sure, get him. I just don't like running out of good pitchers because you play the match up game so early.
We've got a lot of candidates for the guy to face Stanton in the 7th. Kelly, Brasier, whichever starters don't make the rotation, Eovaldi, Thornburg. Maybe even Barnes, though I'm assuming for this exercise he gets the 8th.

Our lefty options are Johnson, Poyner, Pomeranz, Robby Scott, and maybe Eduardo Rodriguez.

I know which group I have more confidence in.
 

chawson

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If the Red Sox acquire a lefty on the market say - Adam Conley vs. a guy like Kelvin Herrera, does that make them a better team. What if you're facing Judge and Stanton in the 7th?
Interesting question. I think yes it does, specifically against the Yankees and Cleveland.

Herrera and Conley both have negligible splits and are having dominant years, but Conley’s specific pitch mix from the left side is less likely to be redundant to the repertoires currently in our bullpen. If we’re facing Stanton or Judge in the 7th, we’ve got Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Kelly or Workman (or possibly Eovaldi) to throw at them. Herrera’s pitch mix is already in our pen.

If we’re facing Didi or Bird with Stanton and Judge on base in the seventh inning New York, the right move is probably to bring in Johnson, who throws 89 mph fastballs and slow curves. I think it would helpful in that situation to have the option of bringing in a power lefty like Conley, especially if we’d need Johnson in extras.
 

Rasputin

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Being never satisfied like a typical Red Sox fan, it would be nice to have put the MFY further back in the rear view mirror. Tougher part of the schedule coming up and all.
That tougher part of the schedule starts with a golden opportunity to put the Yankees further behind. They aren't playing well right now, Judge is out, and Severino has been pitching poorly. Stomp on their necks now and I'll feel better about September.
 

joe dokes

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That's not necessarily true. We've all seen games--series even--that come down to specific matchups at crucial times.

There's a decent chance we face the Yankees in a postseason series. If Gardner or Gregorius is up with men on in the 6th or 7th, I'm going to want someone who can specifically get them out.

It's not a matter of having hisg who are the best overall, it's a matter of having a collection of guys that give you good options in as many situations as possible.

We have pitchers that might reasonably only go five innings requiring some mixing and matching to get to the strong guys at the end of the bullpen. At some point, a good lefty is going to be up in a big situation and I want the guy to can handle it best. Maybe that's Brasier or Pomeranz, but maybe not, and we've got a deadline staring us in the face.

Also, we're calling Brasier "Manzier" right?
I think that Sox playoff success depends on at least sale going more than 5.
 

joe dokes

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That's not necessarily true. We've all seen games--series even--that come down to specific matchups at crucial times.

There's a decent chance we face the Yankees in a postseason series. If Gardner or Gregorius is up with men on in the 6th or 7th, I'm going to want someone who can specifically get them out.

It's not a matter of having hisg who are the best overall, it's a matter of having a collection of guys that give you good options in as many situations as possible.

We have pitchers that might reasonably only go five innings requiring some mixing and matching to get to the strong guys at the end of the bullpen. At some point, a good lefty is going to be up in a big situation and I want the guy to can handle it best. Maybe that's Brasier or Pomeranz, but maybe not, and we've got a deadline staring us in the face.

Also, we're calling Brasier "Manzier" right?
I think that Sox playoff success depends on at least sale going more than 5.
 

Al Zarilla

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That tougher part of the schedule starts with a golden opportunity to put the Yankees further behind. They aren't playing well right now, Judge is out, and Severino has been pitching poorly. Stomp on their necks now and I'll feel better about September.
Red Sox killer Gary Sanchez is out too.
 

Rasputin

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I think that Sox playoff success depends on at least sale going more than 5.
Sure, but Sale is going to pitch at most three games in a series and that's only if the planets align properly. Even if we assume we can get two wins from Sale in each series, we're going to have to get wins somewhere else. It's entirely probable that there's going to be a game four where we're faced with 3-1 or 2-2 (either way) and we really want a win from someone who isn't Sale, Price, or Porcello. Whoever that is, Johnson, Eovaldi, Pomeranz, Wright, Rodriguez...they're very unlikely to go 7. We get five good innings, mix and match the sixth, maybe the seventh, and go with the best guys at the end.

Red Sox killer Gary Sanchez is out too.
This really is an opportunity to stomp on their necks.
 

Kramerica Industries

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Rodney or Workman? Would you rather reliever x or Workman? I feel like that is the question. Though for some reason I feel like im watching a different pitcher than the Red Sox feel they are watching.

Someone like Britton made sense to me. He had the potential to be a clear upgrade. A relief ace that could be used whenever needed. But to give up anything for a non clear upgrade/ just another body seems wasteful and pointless to me.
 

uncannymanny

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Someone like Britton made sense to me. He had the potential to be a clear upgrade. A relief ace that could be used whenever needed. But to give up anything for a non clear upgrade/ just another body seems wasteful and pointless to me.
Agreed. Not interested in buying $10 scratch tickets.
 

Plympton91

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Amen brotha...last winter and spring we were suppose to be out of it by the All-Star break with this team according to most on the board.
I’m guessing there wasn’t a single regular poster here who didn’t consider the Red Sox to be favorites for a wild card slot, though probably more than half, including me, are pleasantly surprised to see them ahead of the New Yuk team.

That was a terrible take on the off-season discussions here.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Jose Iglesias would not be a bad addition. FA to be, owed around 2-2.5 million the rest of the year, great D, and an OK bat.
Garbage bat and 100% not worth blowing the tax for. What does he offer that Lin doesn't? Would there even be a difference between him and Holt? We're talking a month and a half of defense...a meaningless sample size that's impossible to quantify.
 

bosockboy

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Garbage bat and 100% not worth blowing the tax for. What does he offer that Lin doesn't? Would there even be a difference between him and Holt? We're talking a month and a half of defense...a meaningless sample size that's impossible to quantify.
First he’s much better defensively than Lin because he’s a generational defensive talent, no slight on Lin there. And his OPS is 30 points higher than JBJ, who most everyone on here values tremendously.
 

Cesar Crespo

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First he’s much better defensively than Lin because he’s a generational defensive talent, no slight on Lin there. And his OPS is 30 points higher than JBJ, who most everyone on here values tremendously.
He's better than LIn but is he really a generational defensive talent? I know he was hyped up to be.