Post Game Thread: Wk1 at Miami
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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Tale of two halves. Sure, the turnovers by Miami were a big help, but the offense didn't seem to have any problem moving the ball (other than the first series), and put up 20 points on what weren't completely short fields.
Gronk's TD seemed like there was about to be a return to the glory days.
Then it was just utter shit in the second half - Brady had no time, and everyone knows his accuracy suffers when under heat. In the first half, he was spot on. Thought he looked great.
It's all the O-line. They were just manhandled in the second half and were never at any point able to get a push.
Gronk's TD seemed like there was about to be a return to the glory days.
Then it was just utter shit in the second half - Brady had no time, and everyone knows his accuracy suffers when under heat. In the first half, he was spot on. Thought he looked great.
It's all the O-line. They were just manhandled in the second half and were never at any point able to get a push.
I'm concerned, but worried about competing with those three teams over 16 games isn't too concerning to me. They've got holes to plug, but let's not sit here and worry about them finishing 8-8.Stitch01 said:
RedOctober3829 said:
My concern is that they were physically outmatched today. It wasn't just bad fundamentals. The Dolphins were way more active and physical and completely exposed the limits of the Patriots line.
I agree, and this rushing the passer stuff looks to be the 1 thing that Hightower seems to be really good at. On that penalty he absolutely blew up the RB and then planted Tannehill. If he rushes timid now after the penalty he is down to being good at zero things.j44thor said:
I didn't see the game yet (whoa boy I just can't WAIT to watch it on NFL game rewind tomorrow….) but I kept checking the score and stats throughout. Looked like NE was dominating the first half but got hit by a cement mixer in the second.
I'm sure I will be horrified by what I see, but everyone about to hit the panic button needs to relax. It's almost as if some folks think the Patriots will not make improvements, that the bad things that happened today will automatically continue to happen.
Well, they might. And if they do, this will be the worst year any of us could have imagined. But I don't think they will. I think they have smart coaches and talented players and they will adjust and improve and they will be 1-1 after next week's game and we will see steady improvement throughout the year.
In other words: 12-4, going to the AFC Championship Game.
I'm sure I will be horrified by what I see, but everyone about to hit the panic button needs to relax. It's almost as if some folks think the Patriots will not make improvements, that the bad things that happened today will automatically continue to happen.
Well, they might. And if they do, this will be the worst year any of us could have imagined. But I don't think they will. I think they have smart coaches and talented players and they will adjust and improve and they will be 1-1 after next week's game and we will see steady improvement throughout the year.
In other words: 12-4, going to the AFC Championship Game.
They were outmatched in the 2nd half, not the whole game. They sucked, it happens. If it continues, then yes it's a big problem. I'm as concerned as a lot of you, but I'm not one of those to say outlandish things after 1 game. (Ok DrewDawg, it's just after Talib signing lol). I'm willing to chalk this up as a bad effort and move on to next week. If the same things happen next week, well then I'll panic.ScubaSteveAvery said:
Very true without Dante. But I think BB and the FO office know the two most important things to the Pats are 1) Brady and 2) keeping Brady upright.j44thor said:
There is really no other team that I have as much blind faith in than the Pats. They've earned it. If BB and the rest of the FO evaluated the o-line as poorly as we do, I doubt Mankins gets traded and I bet we see a lot more o-line players drafted and picked up for camp or even a trade before the season starts.
SeoulSoxFan
SoSH Member
Posted Today, 04:27 PM
j44thor, on 07 Sept 2014 - 4:24 PM, said:
While I'm not suggesting Chandler was high on the list of problems today, he also probably isn't as good as people make him out to be. At least PFF agrees with me based on last season.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/07/inside-the-numbers-week-1/
It is also worth noting that Chandler had 1 sack over the last 7 games last season including the playoffs, after recording 12 over the first 12 games.
SoSH Member
- 11091 posts
Posted Today, 04:27 PM
j44thor, on 07 Sept 2014 - 4:24 PM, said:
j44thor said:
While I'm not suggesting Chandler was high on the list of problems today, he also probably isn't as good as people make him out to be. At least PFF agrees with me based on last season.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/07/inside-the-numbers-week-1/
It is also worth noting that Chandler had 1 sack over the last 7 games last season including the playoffs, after recording 12 over the first 12 games.
The year Brady came back, they stole the opener (the Leodis McKelvin fumble). The next week they lost in NY. They've had a bunch of losses in NY and MIA (and a BUF loss a couple years ago) in September - I think the mark of these BB teams is they struggle early and he gets them coached up by December.
Not just saying, in BB we trust, but history says the worst days are early.
That being said, Brady looked atrocious to me. He can't get the ball downfield anymore. I don't know how they can run the ball if teams can cheat safeties up knowing Brady can't throw over the top.
Not just saying, in BB we trust, but history says the worst days are early.
That being said, Brady looked atrocious to me. He can't get the ball downfield anymore. I don't know how they can run the ball if teams can cheat safeties up knowing Brady can't throw over the top.
The Arizona loss was unbelievably annoying because of sloppiness. They gave that damn game away As Stich noted, this is a bit scary -- Miami took it.
There is probably collective overreaction. Probably, but not certainly because when football teams go south, they can do it with head spinning suddenness. It can be like termite damage.
There is probably collective overreaction. Probably, but not certainly because when football teams go south, they can do it with head spinning suddenness. It can be like termite damage.
Yep, they got beat in the second half but they outplayed Miami in the first.
They never play well in Miami.
It's only the first game.
They never play well in Miami.
It's only the first game.
They beat NY the next week in an ugly win and outplayed Buffalo in the opener.
I don't know, I hear everyone on the "its one game" and adjusting views drastically based on one game is almost always bad, but the fact that the one part of the team that was a giant question mark totally shit the bed is really troubling. A fourth round pick and a Josh Kline as potential saviors isn't that reassuring. I'm not sure the interior run defense is any good either, it was terrible all of last year. So I'm not sure what we saw out there was one bad game as much as lines just dramatically inferior talent wise vs competitors. The track record says they'll improve as the year goes on, but they have to improve just to get to passable.
The argument that the Pats struggled at times last year, especially early, is a valid one but its so frustrating to see the myriad of problems out there today for a team that we all hope is materially better than last year.
Long season, but this is the first time I've felt 8-8 or missing the playoffs is in play in a loooong time. For me, that was the most disheartening regular season loss in at least five years.
I don't know, I hear everyone on the "its one game" and adjusting views drastically based on one game is almost always bad, but the fact that the one part of the team that was a giant question mark totally shit the bed is really troubling. A fourth round pick and a Josh Kline as potential saviors isn't that reassuring. I'm not sure the interior run defense is any good either, it was terrible all of last year. So I'm not sure what we saw out there was one bad game as much as lines just dramatically inferior talent wise vs competitors. The track record says they'll improve as the year goes on, but they have to improve just to get to passable.
The argument that the Pats struggled at times last year, especially early, is a valid one but its so frustrating to see the myriad of problems out there today for a team that we all hope is materially better than last year.
Long season, but this is the first time I've felt 8-8 or missing the playoffs is in play in a loooong time. For me, that was the most disheartening regular season loss in at least five years.
7-7 in Miami since 2000. One of the wins was in OT
http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-england-patriots/teamvsteam?opp=17&ha=A
http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-england-patriots/teamvsteam?opp=17&ha=A
First one lost with the Pats having a positive turnover margin (yeah I know they had a punt blocked too but one of the fumbles was after a 4th down sack anyways). Pats didn't lose a game with a positive turnover margin all last year. Winning the turnover battle and losing by two scores or more is sort of an NFL rarity.
First time in the BB/Brady era they lost by two scores while winning the turnover battle.
First time in the BB/Brady era they lost by two scores while winning the turnover battle.
Record at each Quarter Pole since 2001. Just needed to get some perspective after a shocking day to say the least.
Week 1-4: 35-15
Week 5-8: 35-13
Week 9-12: 36-12
Week 13-17: 52-10
Here are some examples of perceived poor starts.
2001: started 1-3.(went 13-2 rest of season and the Super Bowl)
2003: started 2-2.(won next 15 games and the Super Bowl)
2005: started 3-3.(went 7-3 and divisional playoff appearance)
2010: started 1-1(went 13-1 to end regular season and divisional appearance)
2012: started 3-3(finished the year 9-1 and AFC title appearance)
There also have been times during the middle of the season which the Patriots have struggled and bounced back. In 2011, they lost 2 straight to Pittsburgh and New York. They did not lose again until the Super Bowl. In 2010, they lost to Cleveland 34-14 but boucned back to win their last 8 regular season games. Last season, they lost 2 of 3 going into Week 8 but then went 7-2 to end the regular season with a shadow roster.
Until it doesn't happen, I will think they'll find the cure to what's been ailing them.
Week 1-4: 35-15
Week 5-8: 35-13
Week 9-12: 36-12
Week 13-17: 52-10
Here are some examples of perceived poor starts.
2001: started 1-3.(went 13-2 rest of season and the Super Bowl)
2003: started 2-2.(won next 15 games and the Super Bowl)
2005: started 3-3.(went 7-3 and divisional playoff appearance)
2010: started 1-1(went 13-1 to end regular season and divisional appearance)
2012: started 3-3(finished the year 9-1 and AFC title appearance)
There also have been times during the middle of the season which the Patriots have struggled and bounced back. In 2011, they lost 2 straight to Pittsburgh and New York. They did not lose again until the Super Bowl. In 2010, they lost to Cleveland 34-14 but boucned back to win their last 8 regular season games. Last season, they lost 2 of 3 going into Week 8 but then went 7-2 to end the regular season with a shadow roster.
Until it doesn't happen, I will think they'll find the cure to what's been ailing them.
Both lines looked like shit, and its not a coaching problem, its a talent problem.
Also, as others have mentioned, Brady's deep ball is atrocious lately, it allows safeties to cheat up in all phases of the game.
It's early, but we may be in for a long season...
Also, as others have mentioned, Brady's deep ball is atrocious lately, it allows safeties to cheat up in all phases of the game.
It's early, but we may be in for a long season...
Clears Cleaver said:
The rush didn't help, but it's pretty obvious that Brady can't throw long with accuracy.
Depressing but true.FelixMantilla said:
Aside from the offensive line, the biggest story of the week should be Vince Wilfork's second season of uselessness. There was never any reason for him to be a Patriot this season.
Thought Wilfork was low on the list of problems...did not have any big plays, but you saw when he was out just how awful the rest of the interior linemen were. And that's why he's here---he's better than the alternatives pretty clearly.
Agree with you guys on Brady's inability to throw deep with any accuracy; that's a major issue at this point.
Agree with you guys on Brady's inability to throw deep with any accuracy; that's a major issue at this point.
Didn't record the game or anything, so I'm just going off memory but it seemed like every time the network showed a replay of a long run, Vince was busy being pushed backwards by a guard one-on-one. You are correct, of course, that any team starting Joe Vellano on their line is going to be a shitshow.
Bizarre play calling. The previous play was similar down the sideline to LaFell and he never saw the ball as he was looking directly up into the sun. So what do we run next......the same pattern with the same pass into the same sun. Wtf.Seels said:
That's interesting. My memory is the opposite, that Wilfork was penetrating often and it was the rest of the front 7 that was getting pushed wherever Miami wanted them to go. In fact, I thought he was getting so much penetration that I was wondering at times if they had changed his responsibility to a 1 gap technique. Maybe I was watching the wrong player, I'll try to keep a closer eye on him next game.SpacemanzGerbil said:
LaFell and Gronkowski were both awful in the 2nd half. Didn't get open, didn't make catches when the ball came to them, and each of them nullified a big play with a penalty.
The Hightower roughing the passer call was unbelievable BS. I know it's from 3 seasons ago but if this isn't a penalty:
there's no way the Hightower hit on Tannehill is.
The Hightower roughing the passer call was unbelievable BS. I know it's from 3 seasons ago but if this isn't a penalty:
there's no way the Hightower hit on Tannehill is.
It's the defensive line that has me more worried then the Oline. Olines seem to come together over time,money have a promising rookie in Stork to add to the mix, they can adjust play calling to slow down a pass rush. They have options.
But everyone thought this was going to be one of the best defenses in the NFL and their front line just got abused by a line that has never played together, started a rookie and was missing their best player. But I see less options on the Dline except, "need to play better". Chris Jones and Michael Buchannon returning to health are not the solution. I'll allow that Easley was making his debut after no preseason and there is obvious upside there, but watching the front seven get destroyed again was sad to watch.
I'll be curious what people who watch the game a second time think of Wilfork. There seems to be a 50/50 split in this thread between he was terrible and he played well.
But everyone thought this was going to be one of the best defenses in the NFL and their front line just got abused by a line that has never played together, started a rookie and was missing their best player. But I see less options on the Dline except, "need to play better". Chris Jones and Michael Buchannon returning to health are not the solution. I'll allow that Easley was making his debut after no preseason and there is obvious upside there, but watching the front seven get destroyed again was sad to watch.
I'll be curious what people who watch the game a second time think of Wilfork. There seems to be a 50/50 split in this thread between he was terrible and he played well.
Tanehill didn't have the ball when Hightower hit him, if I remember correctly. That's the issue. Can't hit him after the ball his out and still drive him into the ground. You have to let up. I thought it was actually legit in terms of the way the rules have been rewritten/specified.
Brady was lucky to have Edelman come down with that one long pass early, as he had to wait for it and basically just went and got it. Lots of passers let him go get it and it's a TD.
If the Pats have to complete 7-8 passes every time they want to score a TD, it's going to be a long season with that O line.
Brady was lucky to have Edelman come down with that one long pass early, as he had to wait for it and basically just went and got it. Lots of passers let him go get it and it's a TD.
If the Pats have to complete 7-8 passes every time they want to score a TD, it's going to be a long season with that O line.
I think Wilfork's game was a microcosm of the team's. He looked OK during the first half but dropped off in the 2nd. By the 4th qtr, he was gassed.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
A 7-7 record on the road vs the Dolphins since 2000 and something like 18 losses in a row from the mid 60's to the mid 80's; this franchise just does not fair well on the road vs this team; the names and faces change, the results do not.
The Dolphins had what, five new starters on their offensive line and they pushed the Patriots defensive line around pretty good today.
Also, pretty sure the announcers said all three starting linebackers were injured and out of the game, yet the offense struggled; one of the sacks on Brady came from some undrafted rookie free agent linebacker.
Both Patriot lines did not have a good day, period. Was Kelly really that bad? I trust the coaches decision to cut him, but that defensive line they trotted out today did not look very good. Is the talent on this team suited for a 34 or should they consider a 43 instead? Isn't Easley viewed as a tackle suited for a 43 system? I'm no expert on this, maybe someone else can enlighten me as to the viability of running a 43 or a 34 with the line and linebacker talent (or lack thereof) on this defensive unit.
Sloppy tackling too; Jesus Christ, wrap a fucking guy up somebody. On Moreno's touchdown run of about four yards, at least five players had a shot at him and couldn't bring him down, fucking frustrating to watch.
This defense was touted as being close to on par with the ones from the early to mid 2000's; not today it wasn't.
The coaches on both sides of the ball have their work cut out for them; as another poster said, it might not be a coaching issue but a talent issue.
Time will tell, but what a shitshow that was.
The Dolphins had what, five new starters on their offensive line and they pushed the Patriots defensive line around pretty good today.
Also, pretty sure the announcers said all three starting linebackers were injured and out of the game, yet the offense struggled; one of the sacks on Brady came from some undrafted rookie free agent linebacker.
Both Patriot lines did not have a good day, period. Was Kelly really that bad? I trust the coaches decision to cut him, but that defensive line they trotted out today did not look very good. Is the talent on this team suited for a 34 or should they consider a 43 instead? Isn't Easley viewed as a tackle suited for a 43 system? I'm no expert on this, maybe someone else can enlighten me as to the viability of running a 43 or a 34 with the line and linebacker talent (or lack thereof) on this defensive unit.
Sloppy tackling too; Jesus Christ, wrap a fucking guy up somebody. On Moreno's touchdown run of about four yards, at least five players had a shot at him and couldn't bring him down, fucking frustrating to watch.
This defense was touted as being close to on par with the ones from the early to mid 2000's; not today it wasn't.
The coaches on both sides of the ball have their work cut out for them; as another poster said, it might not be a coaching issue but a talent issue.
Time will tell, but what a shitshow that was.
Jettisoned said:LaFell and Gronkowski were both awful in the 2nd half. Didn't get open, didn't make catches when the ball came to them, and each of them nullified a big play with a penalty.
The Hightower roughing the passer call was unbelievable BS. I know it's from 3 seasons ago but if this isn't a penalty:
there's no way the Hightower hit on Tannehill is.
Off the top, Tannehilll has already passed the football which limits the lick you can put on him.
Edit: already covered
What is Hightower supposed to do? He jumped before Tannehill released the ball, magicly stop himself in mid air? It was a terrible call or rule you decide.
That game was total shit, but for some reason I'm not that worried. I don't really have anything to base that on other than track record. They just can't be as bad as they looked right?
Practice will not be much fun this week. In a weird way, that may be a positive to take away from this game.
Practice will not be much fun this week. In a weird way, that may be a positive to take away from this game.
MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
Jesus, Man. This same sentiment was written many times in the game threads last year in the first six weeks. They ended up with the second highest scoring offense in the AFC and the third highest in the NFL. Where is Rosie Colvin when you need him?
j44thor said:
It seemed to me Easley was drawing a lot of dbl teams and held his own.Obviously nothing that popped, though.
jsinger121 said:
That's my sense, too. I mean..who knows on Kelly, impossible to pass judgment, but he looked fine. In Vellano, love the guy would shake his hand for hishard effort if I met him. But there's JAGs and then there's ....a guy who isn't even a replaceable part. He's below replacement level, I guess would be the baseball term. I appreciate what he did last year when just showing up and giving effort in a slot devastated by injuries was something. But I don't get why he's on the roster and playing.
It's not the timing of the hit. It's the intent and force of the hit.Silverdude2167 said:
If he hits Tannehill and knocks him down, it's no call. He grabs Tannehill and drives him into the ground while he doesn't have the ball. That's a flag. It's pretty simple, actually, and a completely legit call.
The one you can make an argument about is the call where there was about a 5 minute delay in the call, but it was pretty clear that Jones's helmet made hard contact with Tannehill's face mask. The call was correct, but the timing of it made it seem pretty suspect.
The final one was a no- doubter. Tannehill was basically clotheslined.
sodenj5 said:
Agreed. This is what people don't seem to understand. This will be flagged every time.
Wonder how much the losses of Dante and Pepper Johnson are going to affect both of the lines. To me this could be a the big story in that these two coaches could get the most of the JAG's.
Post-mortem...
First half drives:
NE
3 plays, 6 yards, blocked punt
13 plays, 80 yards, TD
7 plays, 6 yards, FG
11 plays, 94 yards, TD
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
8 plays, 47 yards, FG
45 plays, 234 yards, 2 TD, 2 FG, 20 points
MIA
4 plays, 15 yards, TD
3 plays, 12 yards, fumble
6 plays, 37 yards, INT
5 plays, 40 yards, fumble
11 plays, 55 yards, FG
1 play, -1 yards, end of half
30 plays, 158 yards, 1 TD, 1 FG, 3 turnovers, 10 points
Ok, so that was a dominating half by the Patriots. 3-0 (really, 3-1 considering the blocked punt) in the turnover category. The Pats with two excellent long TD drives. Miami never got much going and when they did, the Patriots came up with a big play.
Oh, but the second half….
NE
4 plays, 14 yards, fumble
3 plays, 2 yards, punt
5 plays, 2 yards, punt
3 plays, -5 yards, punt
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
4 plays, -4 yards, fumble
15 plays, 37 yards, turnover on downs
37 plays, 47 yards, 2 turnovers
MIA
8 plays, 66 yards, FG
4 plays, 34 yards, TD
10 plays, 50 yards, FG
3 plays, -2 yards, punt
3 plays, -2 yards, punt
12 plays, 85 yards, TD
4 plays, 5 yards, FG
44 plays, 236 yards, 2 TD, 3 FG, 23 points
I mean, NIGHT and DAY.
So the Patriots played probably their worst half of football since…well…actually, since last year's first half of the Denver game, when they were outscored 24-0. That was pretty hideous. Fortunately, they played great in the second half and won that game. Yesterday, their good first half wasn't enough to overcome their crappy second half.
Long story short, the Pats have, in recent years, played some pretty awful halves of football. Usually they are able to overcome it. Not yesterday in Miami, a place that traditionally gives them problems.
First half drives:
NE
3 plays, 6 yards, blocked punt
13 plays, 80 yards, TD
7 plays, 6 yards, FG
11 plays, 94 yards, TD
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
8 plays, 47 yards, FG
45 plays, 234 yards, 2 TD, 2 FG, 20 points
MIA
4 plays, 15 yards, TD
3 plays, 12 yards, fumble
6 plays, 37 yards, INT
5 plays, 40 yards, fumble
11 plays, 55 yards, FG
1 play, -1 yards, end of half
30 plays, 158 yards, 1 TD, 1 FG, 3 turnovers, 10 points
Ok, so that was a dominating half by the Patriots. 3-0 (really, 3-1 considering the blocked punt) in the turnover category. The Pats with two excellent long TD drives. Miami never got much going and when they did, the Patriots came up with a big play.
Oh, but the second half….
NE
4 plays, 14 yards, fumble
3 plays, 2 yards, punt
5 plays, 2 yards, punt
3 plays, -5 yards, punt
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
4 plays, -4 yards, fumble
15 plays, 37 yards, turnover on downs
37 plays, 47 yards, 2 turnovers
MIA
8 plays, 66 yards, FG
4 plays, 34 yards, TD
10 plays, 50 yards, FG
3 plays, -2 yards, punt
3 plays, -2 yards, punt
12 plays, 85 yards, TD
4 plays, 5 yards, FG
44 plays, 236 yards, 2 TD, 3 FG, 23 points
I mean, NIGHT and DAY.
So the Patriots played probably their worst half of football since…well…actually, since last year's first half of the Denver game, when they were outscored 24-0. That was pretty hideous. Fortunately, they played great in the second half and won that game. Yesterday, their good first half wasn't enough to overcome their crappy second half.
Long story short, the Pats have, in recent years, played some pretty awful halves of football. Usually they are able to overcome it. Not yesterday in Miami, a place that traditionally gives them problems.
I think the 98 to 99 heat index during the game has more to do with this than we realize. We were rotating the lines early, I believe that was due to the heat rather than personnel matchups or groupings. First half was fine, second half was a mess. One team hit a wall, the team that practices in that stuff didn't.
I do think the lines will improve, I also think they weren't ready for the heat. Miami chose white for a reason. Same thing happened at Carolina years ago. Dark jerseys, hot day, we looked like shit.
I do think the lines will improve, I also think they weren't ready for the heat. Miami chose white for a reason. Same thing happened at Carolina years ago. Dark jerseys, hot day, we looked like shit.