Penn State AD and Sandusky Charged
- Thread starter Pesky Pole
- Start date
For all of those people advocating cancelling tomorrow's home game:
1. how does this benefit the victims? The prosecuting attorney has already stated that Paterno getting fired hurts his case...Victims do not want to come forward when they feel that people will blame them for this... Adding the loss of three games and a bowl game? That would only make his job even harder. Many fans of PSU will not see why the football team should be penalized for a retired coaches crimes and JoePa's failings... especially since there has been only an arrest at this point... there has been no trial, there has been no guilty verdict, there has been no sentencing. Paterno has not been given a chance to defend himself. There is assumed guilt on everyone's part, but nothing has been proven. One side of the story has been told. I don't think there's a chance in hell that Sandusky isn't found guilty or that there are many plausible excuses that can be made for PSU's behavior, but the legal system is in place for a reason and there is a chance that there is another side to the story, however unlikely. Canceling the game does not benefit anyone as far as I can see.
2. to those that think that there MAY be violence on saturday.... what one thing could PSU do to ENSURE that violence occurs? that's right. If you cancel the game there will be rioting in the streets of State College...however misguided. There are something like 35000 undergrads? The mob from the other night would be a flash in the pan in comparison. I went to PSU...the police force is incapable of fully containing a mad student population.
3. Football for most fans and even the school is not all about money lost at the game. This is the first year with a Big Ten championship game. College sports mean very little to people in Boston...but there are a lot of people in PA and alumni around the world who would care...and PSU has a lot of alumni in a lot of places...and many positions with power...the university would have to answer to a lot of those people...many who give money to the school... the endowment will suffer already...losing even more because you canceled three games is even less desirable than usual. We are talking more than just one or two million dollars. (would Nike even let them cancel the game? There's a chance Nike will pull their sponsorship already). I heard on the radio yesterday that PSU football brings in more money than any professional sports team in this country and has earnings in the range of teams like Real Madrid.
4. the Players. There are players with aspirations of playing in the NFL. Seniors who are playing their last home game... records that are being kept etc. It's very easy to say 'who cares', but imagine/remember your senior year and imagine someone taking away opportunities from you for nothing that you caused.
I guess in general... why should people who are innocent pay for the crimes of the guilty?
Press conf with president just announced McQuery is put on leave by AD. ESPN airing live.
It is paid leave. "Subject to further determination."
It is paid leave. "Subject to further determination."
Oh good. Paid leave. That helps.
eta: actually it probably does. But everyone should still be fired. Including their new coach.
eta: actually it probably does. But everyone should still be fired. Including their new coach.
That is the smart thing to do and I said that yesterday they should put him on administrative leave.
You do realize that Penn State would likely find itself afoul of various whistelblower statutes and a target of a lawsuit if it just fired McQuery. The only other option is paid leave until they can figure out a way to gracefully get him off the payroll. This is one case where the action of the university is 100% defensible.
I'm pretty certain that just about everyone associated with the football program at Penn State will be seeking other employment relatively soon.
I just read your entire post. How many posts did you read before making it? Many in the 60-some-odd pages of this thread have given their answers to the questions you've raised. And you probably only need to read a few to realize you're not the only person here who attended a Big Ten school, so the comments between ellipses about what college sports mean to people outside of Boston are really not necessary, and in my opinion, wholly irrelevant. Nobody has suggested that the games should be cancelled because nobody cares about college sports. Indeed, many have said exactly the opposite.
You responded to my post which was about the financial impact to the PSU program if the games were cancelled. It was in response to the assertion that the loss of revenue would cripple the program, not a statement that money is the most important consideration here. Again, it's just the opposite.
It would be very destructive if they accepted a bowl bid, which is why I would expect the Trustees will prevent it.
This reminds me. And this is just gonna sound like a rant but whatever. Can this sick fuck be prosecuted for doing less than the bare minimum when he saw the assault? (I know probably not) Because who the fuck sees something like that and thinks "I'll call my dad". The fuck? He was a grown fucking man and didn't once call the the goddamn cops. Fuck him.
I'm sorry, I just felt like typing that.
I'm going to return to the Papelbon thread and try not to throw up.
Not to mention that unless they get the auto-invite (unlikely) to the Rose Bowl, they would be looking at the bottom-of-the-barrel Big Ten game. Nobody is going to want to invite them.
I've goe back and forth on it, and see both sides.
They shouldn't be invited IMO, but I don't see them turning down an invite for some reason.
You really think a 10-2 Big Ten division-winner Penn State would accept an invite to the TicketCity Bowl to play Tulsa or Marshall?
Fair enough... I should have read more...i was responding to the posts that I had read on this last page that were still saying the game should be canceled..
I meant to imply that the three games would not be the only financial loss. I guess I misunderstood what you wrote...but it seemed like you were saying that after all was said and done it would be a few million dollars... I think the losses in revenue for the games would not be the biggest loss, but instead people who would stop giving money to the school because they canceled football games...even if they were misguided
I didn't mean to imply I'm the only person that went to a Big Ten school and I know that you did after reading it now a few times. I just meant to say that there are a lot of passionate people in the Big 10 family (i don't necessarily include myself although I do like watching the games) who would react violently to games being canceled because they are very much wrapped up in Penn State football.
Sadly, I think they'll get an invite to play in a far more prestigious game, if only because the people who run these things are the biggest ratings whores this side of ESPN. I also think that Penn State will want to accept any halfway decent invite they might receive. ("Think of the Seniors!")
If this happens, it's going to be up to the (new) administration and/or the Trustees to quash it.
In Pennsylvania, if you report it to your superiors you've fulfilled your legal obligations. If you fail to report it up the chain or to authorities, then you can be prosecuted. It's the person at the top of the chain who has the ultimate responsibility to notify the police.
This is different from most states, where you'd have a legal obligation to tell the cops.
So I guess the answer is "you can be prosecuted if you do less than the bare minimum, but that doesn't apply since he fulfilled the bare minimum obligation for PA".
Hopefully PA changes their laws after this.
Eh, I don't think so. The sponsors are not going to want to have anything to do with this team playing in their Bowl Game. I would expect it will not come to this because I fully believe the school will announce it will not accept any bowl bid in advance. We'll see soon enough.
Because I spent 4 years at a Big 10 school and my family spent another 7 years at them. I mean, you were the one who asserted that only people who went to one would "understand" how the Big 10 sports fanbase feels about football and how important it is to the college experience. So because I draw a different conclusion from you, is that assertion false now?
I think a major bowl would be hard-pressed to turn down Penn State, which is a top 5 bowl travel team, because they bring in more revenue for a bowl that nearly every other school.
In a month I'm not sure commercial interests would pull advertising already boomed.
It represents the sad state of college football I doubt a Outback Bowl or whatever would put principle before money.
Schultz was in charge of the campus police...correct? Could Joe have assumed that he was reporting the matter to the police?
I guess what's hard for me is how one could assert this to be true...
There is no other case like this...either in the crimes involved or the length of tenure for the coach involved.
It's hard for me to see how anyone outside of PSU could fully understand how this feels to the alumni and the student body and then say..that's how we would react if we were in the same situation.
Regardless of how one feels about college sports and the adoration given rightly or wrongly to coaches/players etc and that argument... this man has come to represent the school and the school's ideals. He is not simply a football coach, but has been deeply involved in the community and school as much as an educator as anything else. I don't think there's anything that could be described as typical in this situation as Joe as a coach. To then take that man and reduce him to nothing in both esteem and position in the course of a few days is hard for us to swallow... it's barely sunk in...i'm not a student anymore, but I can't imagine protesting this man yet...
Nobody who is younger than 61 remembers Penn State without Joe Paterno... Maybe that means nothing when it comes down to the end here.
This is not said to belittle the allegations that have been made against him..or to excuse him for what has happened... but maybe to say that no..maybe you don't understand how it would be like in this particular situation, because this situation has never happened before and you probably don't know how it feels even though you went to a big ten school.
Doesn't matter, you only have to report it to one of the police or your superior, and Joe reported it to his superior. So he legally covered his ass.
Schultz was the VP of Finance (I believe that was his title) the campus police department does report up through him but he is in no way shape or form "in charge of the police" or the "head of the campus police". This is a straw that many Paterno apologists grasp at and it annoys the crap out of me.
Talking to Schultz was in no way the same thing as talking to the police.
Edit:Not that I am disagreeing with SummerH, he is legally covered because he reported to "superiors".
We'll see in a few weeks, I guess. But in my opinion no bowl is going to invite this team over Wiscy, Nebraska, OSU (if eligible)' or Michigan, no matter what those teams do the rest of the way. If MSU wins 8 games, I'd out them there, too. So will the #6 bowl invite PSU over Purdue? Maybe.
I don't disagree. There isn't a single piece of evidence that links Gricar's disappearance to any of his cases. There were conspiracy theories surrounding the disappearance back in 2005, but this Sandusky thing has swung the door wide open to a whole new level of speculation. And why shouldn't it? Crazier shit has happened. Someone should at least dust off his case file. Where's Mike Wallace when you need him?
I don't think I'm a Joe Paterno apologist...but I do wonder why he would choose to cover up child abuse..or any of them would.
I guess I am grasping at straws to think that Paterno thought he had done all he could do...
It's harder for me to put myself in his shoes and fully understand what he was going through as so many seem to be doing.
One thing that also may have effected his thinking is that Sandusky had been cleared in 98 (why i have no idea) so Joe may have thought this was a similar case and not followed up on it. I also wonder how much daily interaction they had since both were extremely busy men and traveling a lot... i don't know how much time Joe spends at the facility where Jerry had an office or how many times they crossed paths after 99.
edit: clarity
forget about Paterno fulfilling his legal obligation to report this to his boss... can you honestly say that you think it's acceptable for him to have allowed a man he knows has been accused of child rape (and in 2002 he is told by an eye witness that he raped a boy in Joe Paterno's lockerroom, no less!) to keep an office in his building, hang around his team, use his proximity to PSU Football to run a charity he uses to attract more victims, and so on for at least 9 years and arguably as ling as 13 years?
Can you honestly say that Paterno was right to do that?
Just admit it. Your hero fucked up very badly and children were raped because of his decision to allow Sandusky to hang around PSU.
Take a breath, think about those poor kids, and admit it.
Fuck Joe Paterno.
I didn't mean to say you were but it is something I've seen and it bugs me.
Sandusky wasn't cleared of anything in 98, he just wasn't prosecuted. My opinion(and only my opinion) why is Paterno got involved and squashed it and forced Sandusky to retire. Once that is done Paterno is dirty and when 02 happens he has to keep that quiet or 98 is going to rear its head in any investigation.
Edit: And as to why they would cover it up is easy, it would have made the program look bad and that just couldn't happen.
Thanks, my thoughts exactly.
Lars10, I appreciate your opinions, we are all entitled to them. But you are coming off as a Joe Paterno apologist/fanboy, and it's not a good look for you.
With a brick through Sandusky's window, let me reiterate the call for protective custody or guards 24/7. He really does remain the thread which, if pulled, is most likely to get us to the bottom of this whole thing.
We are, I'm afraid, at the mercy of the PA authorities in unraveling the totality of this. Reflecting on it more, there is about zero chance of the DOJ picking this up. In late 2011, the Adminstration with be loathe to piss off even one person in PA -- and there is a sizable minority in PA who just cannot handle the truth.
We are, I'm afraid, at the mercy of the PA authorities in unraveling the totality of this. Reflecting on it more, there is about zero chance of the DOJ picking this up. In late 2011, the Adminstration with be loathe to piss off even one person in PA -- and there is a sizable minority in PA who just cannot handle the truth.
Crikey. You really need to read the thread and understand the timeline before spitballing like this. Sandusky was not cleared -- but he was not charged by the DA with a crime. Sandusky was forced into retirement following the 1998 incident, and Paterno was the one who told him directly that he would not be the next football coach at Penn State. By the time the McQueary report comes in to Paterno, it's a pattern of abuse, and the 2002 incident is not the same, but more serious.
As to why he would cover it up, there are lots of plausible speculations -- read the goddamned thread!
I would really like to know the details of the coversation in 2004 when the AD and University president tried to convince JoePa it was time to go, and Big Joe let them know who was really the boss at PSU.
Yikes there is an angle I hadn't thought of. Once you are part of a cover up there is no way out. Everyone has something on each other.
Man, it would be something to see Mike Wallace in his prime cover this story. He certainly wouldn't be afraid to stir up some shit, that's for sure. He is a Michigan alum after all.
Mike McQuery is in protective custody, and not in State Cillege. He and the receivers has a conference call a few mins ago and he basically told then he's no longer a coach and they can't see him.
It's getting worse and worse. Fortunately tomorrow is the last home game for 2011. If they were playing 2 or 3 more games in State College, they probably would have to bring in the National Guard to ensure public safety....they still might.
The National Guard? I'm curious, what do people think is going to happen tomorrow? The students are going to be fine, I mean they might erupt in some ridiculous Paterno chants and embarrass themselves and the school even further, but I really think the concerns about violence are way overblown.
As a current Penn State student I can tell you that Jnai nailed it. Kids grow up making the 3 hour trek from suburbs of Philly and Pittsburgh to tailgate all day and see a team they grow up loving. When the icon and legend of the team you love is forcibly removed, it elicits a strong emotional reaction. This issue is far deeper than kids being stupid immature college students. For many of them its like seeing their family broken up.
Franco Harris criticizes Penn State for firing Paterno - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Franco Harris rips the trustees, defends Paterno, claims allegations have no connection to the football program. Do any of these dumbass ex-PSU jocks bother to read the grand jury presentments or even the paper before making these moronic statements? Harris has so many it's hard to pick just one to share here, but how about this:
Franco Harris rips the trustees, defends Paterno, claims allegations have no connection to the football program. Do any of these dumbass ex-PSU jocks bother to read the grand jury presentments or even the paper before making these moronic statements? Harris has so many it's hard to pick just one to share here, but how about this:
You have four thousand posts on a Red Sox messageboard and you don't understand irrational fandom?
Even the most insane Paterno apologist isn't saying that. They simply refuse to believe that St. Joe could have possibly known anything about this and when he found out he did what he should have and other people let him down.
These people have grown up with the image of Joe being the most moral and good person ever, you can't expect that to change over night.
I assume given more time and more information most will come around to a more rational view but some will inevitably hold on to what they knew to be true.
It wasn't the game of football that Paterno/Spanier decided was more important than little boys getting raped.....it was the MONEY generated from this game of football that caused them to make this decision. They would have chosen curling if curling generated over $50m per year in profits.