But someone took a picture of it written down on a piece of paper. Done deal, right?
Pats QB Options
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I guess the question is.. how much more do they value the 15th pick than 29 though... I mean, I look at this draft and it's the wild west on projections. Some people see the Patriots taking Zaven Collins at 15, others have him out of the 1st round. Barmore could go top 10 or fall to the bottom of the 1st, how do teams evaluate the WRs... it's not unreasonable to be as high on one of the Moore's as Devonta Smith, and the Moores could easily go in the 2nd.
I don't think the Patriots do it, but it's not unreasonable that the Patriots would have a 2nd round grade on Love, and that they'd see 29 and a 2nd as more valuable than 15. The Patriots have a long tradition of thinking multiple later picks are worth more than their 1st, just last year they though 37 and 71 was worth more than 23, and there is no particular reason to think that #15 this year is a pick they see as uniquely valuable.. 15 is nice, but it's not a top pick, and we don't know how they see this draft vs. last year.. they may well see the 15th this year as being likely a player that last year they would have had at 21 or 23, likewise they might see 15 and 29 this year as being not much different.
FWIW, here's the opinion from just one medical professional I asked:
Hopefully, SoSH doctors can elaborate.
I just know from personal experience that everything is fine and dandy one moment and the next, the person is on the floor convulsing. One time, their head hit pretty hard on the floor and they are very fortunate it wasn't worse.
I assumed it was a spectrum thing though and the person I'm talking about was an extreme case. Fields would also have access to much better doctors. I'm just not sure Fields is any less likely to have a seizure on the football field than in his living room. I could be very wrong about that. It's also possible he's extremely unlikely to ever have any seizures at all so it doesn't really even impact his life much. I wouldn't think seizures discriminate based on location though.
Well, I'd think that the larger concern would be that it happen to him during live play since many bad things could happen there. That's unlikely since less than 1% of his work week is spent under those conditions.
That's what I meant by football field but I should have been more clear. Of course, that is the worst case scenario but one would think any and all seizures would impact his football career. Maybe having seizures don't take as much of a physical toll on the body as I think but if he has a seizure on a Wednesday, will he be cleared to play football that Sunday? When will he be able to play again? Seizures can lead to brain damage and/or death and those are 2 things that would obviously impact a football career.
In my scenario, the person came back to work a week later but the job wasn't physically demanding at all. He also wasn't working for the money, so maybe he could have been back faster.
Epilepsy can encompass a variety of different causes and effects. Not all seizures are minutes-long convulsions. They can be very brief, they can be partially conscious, they may get an "aura" that indicates the onset of a seizure, etc. They may be pretty localized to particular times of day.
For instance, I have a daughter who is 4 who has epilepsy caused by focal cortical dysplasia. She has very brief focal seizures (partial) that occur almost exclusively at night. They are rarely longer than 10 seconds long. Even as a toddler she can sense them coming and will throw herself to the ground so she avoids falling. And her condition is largely controlled by medication.
Fields doesn't have the same condition as my daughter, from what is reported, but I think it's important to understand "epilepsy" is more of an umbrella of conditions with similar effect (seizures) rather than a particular thing and the seizures can vary widely in cause, duration, frequency, timing, concern, etc. I am not a doctor (I once passed out a film strip on the circulatory system) but I would tend to think if Fields has made it this far, it's not likely to be any kind of impediment to an NFL career.
For instance, I have a daughter who is 4 who has epilepsy caused by focal cortical dysplasia. She has very brief focal seizures (partial) that occur almost exclusively at night. They are rarely longer than 10 seconds long. Even as a toddler she can sense them coming and will throw herself to the ground so she avoids falling. And her condition is largely controlled by medication.
Fields doesn't have the same condition as my daughter, from what is reported, but I think it's important to understand "epilepsy" is more of an umbrella of conditions with similar effect (seizures) rather than a particular thing and the seizures can vary widely in cause, duration, frequency, timing, concern, etc. I am not a doctor (I once passed out a film strip on the circulatory system) but I would tend to think if Fields has made it this far, it's not likely to be any kind of impediment to an NFL career.
If my choice was 3+1 of Love or 4 of Mond/Mills/Trask, I would take Love in a heartbeat.
But yeah, the price would need to be a bit less for me. Interesting outside the box thought, though.
I know from family experience that the medicine has really improved over the last 25 years. At least in the case I'm close to, this has gone from something that happened fairly regularly and I was always worried it would happen when my family member was driving alone, to where there have been zero episodes in the last decade after switching to new meds.
It's case by case. IANAD but I'd guess the fact (if this is true) that he had relatives who got over epilepsy is a good sign.
I've had 2 seizures in the distant past. The first came out of the blue and I was diagnosed as epileptic and went on meds. A few years later, since there was a good chance the seizure was a 1 time deal, my doctor weaned me off the medication and within a week I had my second, and last, seizure. Medication has kept it under control for 30+ years and I might have an aura once every year or two. My seizures are linked to blinking lights, so I avoid strobes, for instance. Given a QB may have his photo taken by dozens of flashes at an appearance, that'd be my biggest worry if he has a similar form of epilepsy.
Captaincoop is right - there are far better alternative medications available now and I switched to one. The old phenobarbital or dilantin would be a concern if they were the only choices as they're heavy and you can feel sluggish. If he's dedicated to his meds, I wouldn't cross him off the list. As always with an injury/condition, if the patient is serious about recovery/management, they can get along pretty good.
I've had 2 seizures in the distant past. The first came out of the blue and I was diagnosed as epileptic and went on meds. A few years later, since there was a good chance the seizure was a 1 time deal, my doctor weaned me off the medication and within a week I had my second, and last, seizure. Medication has kept it under control for 30+ years and I might have an aura once every year or two. My seizures are linked to blinking lights, so I avoid strobes, for instance. Given a QB may have his photo taken by dozens of flashes at an appearance, that'd be my biggest worry if he has a similar form of epilepsy.
Captaincoop is right - there are far better alternative medications available now and I switched to one. The old phenobarbital or dilantin would be a concern if they were the only choices as they're heavy and you can feel sluggish. If he's dedicated to his meds, I wouldn't cross him off the list. As always with an injury/condition, if the patient is serious about recovery/management, they can get along pretty good.
Is that photosensitive epilepsy? Would he have made it this far if had that?
Did you have to avoid the Chicago Bulls introductions of the 90's?
Yes, that's it, but if you look at even that one segment, there are a lot of variables. The EEG charting me lit up when the light flashes hit a certain high speed, so I avoided clubs and concerts that run wild with strobes. I'd guess Fields would be fine if he managed his medication and exposure correctly. If you have it, you can definitely feel a blinking light that's near a certain red line for you. It's like looking into the sun - don't do it.
I didn't get to see those Bulls intros in person, but they definitely looked problematic. At least ten times I've squeezed my eyes together pretty tightly and alternated opening and closing one eye to get through the last ten minutes or so of "Alien." It's that good.
I have a personal stake in this. Last offseason in a fit of irrational enthusiasm I purchased a Cam Newton Pats jersey. I don't ever do that--for context, my prior jersey was a Mosi Tatupu, and it basically disintegrated from years of use.
A few weeks ago I was wearing my Cam at at a family cookout. My snot-nosed nephew, who at age 11 has only known Pats success, sneered "Worst....jersey...ever."
So we need to stick with Cam, and he needs to have an all-pro season, and then next year I can rub that smarmy rugrat's face in it. I'll burn his snapper dog on the grill to boot.
A few weeks ago I was wearing my Cam at at a family cookout. My snot-nosed nephew, who at age 11 has only known Pats success, sneered "Worst....jersey...ever."
So we need to stick with Cam, and he needs to have an all-pro season, and then next year I can rub that smarmy rugrat's face in it. I'll burn his snapper dog on the grill to boot.
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Your nephew is a smart kid. More than likely he will be right again.
I own a Stidham jersey. Same irrational enthusiasm. I was high on the kid and when Brady bailed, I felt the need to support him.
Sigh.
I win...or lose....IMO
It was adjusted prior to the pro day based on the fact that they were the team who arranged the scheduling of it. Now it’s getting pounded more.
Even if Cam never amounts to much, it's still a great jersey because it's an expression of true hope and optimism for the team, as opposed to having a jersey just because someone is great.
Ok, now that is a terrible jersey purchase.
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Sure, and just cut the "LAW" off the back of an old Ty Law jersey and sew it on under the "1".
Dad has Epilepsy. Mid life (45ish) diagnoses after a couple scary siezures. Spent time in hospitals because it was affecting his behavior and actions.
Would tell stories with a certain cadence, a pause, a hand gesture. A few mins later would tell the exact same story IN THE EXACT SAME WAY. Candence, pause and hand gestures. It was spooky.
Anyway found a good doc who figured it out and took about 3 months to get his meds straight (which was pretty short in the scheme of things) Since then perfectly fine. No Seizures, "quirks" have gone away, high functioning mentally and for a now 72 year old pretty active physically.
All this to say with the right meds (based on my personal experience) if the medical team told me he was good to go, I wouldnt think twice about taking a premium prospect with epilepsy.
Would tell stories with a certain cadence, a pause, a hand gesture. A few mins later would tell the exact same story IN THE EXACT SAME WAY. Candence, pause and hand gestures. It was spooky.
Anyway found a good doc who figured it out and took about 3 months to get his meds straight (which was pretty short in the scheme of things) Since then perfectly fine. No Seizures, "quirks" have gone away, high functioning mentally and for a now 72 year old pretty active physically.
All this to say with the right meds (based on my personal experience) if the medical team told me he was good to go, I wouldnt think twice about taking a premium prospect with epilepsy.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/1385299517998878720
might not mean much and could just be posturing, but if Denver really doesn't try to move up that’s a big competitor off the board.
might not mean much and could just be posturing, but if Denver really doesn't try to move up that’s a big competitor off the board.
I would have looked him right in his crooked little eyes and said, "you were the worst...mistake...ever."
Sounds like a real missed opportunity.
Here's a link:
https://dcs.megaphone.fm/ESP9859550588.mp3?key=fffd0848eb8066c06e8f372ac11d99a1
Basically just that most of the film Ruiz has watched shows things that are unique to Mac's experience in a loaded college offense & there is not a lot that translates to what he will see in the NFL. & when he faces those more difficult, NFL-type plays, Mac does poorly.
Yeah--someone with his high level of success this year--to find certain things he messes up 80% of the time---that has to be a small sample, no?
If you listen to the pod (you should it was a good episode), he goes through a bunch of the QBs, but basically what he was talking about was going through every play, and then pulling out the plays that have real value in predicting NFL success, so you're eliminating a bunch of play types, a bunch of situations etc. So on the key types of plays, he was seeing a lot of issues. In particular he talked about how poorly he handled moderate pressure, so what is a good pocket in the NFL but a bit sloppy by "Alabama with 5 future pros on the O-Line against scrubs" standards, like having to slide up, or move away from guys who have been blocked to the ground, etc.
I obviously haven't seen all his snaps, but other people who are dubious about Jones note a lot of the same things... he didn't have many tight window throws, and the ones he had he wasn't anywhere near as good on, he doesn't manipulate the pocket well, it's either an enormous immaculate pocket or he leaves it, etc.
He also did note that his first thoughts on Jones were more negative, then he saw he could make some throws, but felt he wasn't a high 1st pick at all.
The thing that makes Jones hard to project is... he had a lot of success, but he also was in a position where any even backup quality pro prospect should succeed... he ran more RPO and PA than any of the other QBs, he had by far the best O-line, the best skill position players, he had a lot of simple throws to wide open players... and that isn't going to happen in the NFL no matter where you go. You have to handle at least moderate pressure almost every snap, and most of your throws downfield are going to be tighter windows, guys don't get WIDE open as often in the NFL.
Greg Bedard says the opposite on Jones. He says that after watching the tape that Jones was under pressure more than is being perceived and still put up the numbers that he did. Bedard came out of film study really impressed with him after not initially wanting to believe the hype around him.
I heard him say that there were 4 to 5 plays in each game where Jones would be involved in a play that would resemble an NFL game situation. Maybe I misheard. The only thing he seeemd to concentrate on was pressure on the QB. I didn't hear any other examples of NFL situations where he felt Jones failed. Except for one example, Ruiz didn't specify how Jones failed when under pressure. Did he throw the ball away? throw multiple int's? take unecessary sacks? or just look flustered? Maybe his analysis of Jones will turn out to be accurate, but Ruiz has had several bad misses when it comes to evaluating college QB talent. Mahomes and Watson
Herbert
I'm not sure if I had ever even heard of the guy before listening to the pod. I just liked that he agreed with me mostly lol.
It was probably a bad post on my part, but I'm glad it has led to a good discussion.
It looks like what those misses by Ruiz shows is that elite physical traits can make up for some of the things he sees on tape. Don't see Mac as possessing those elite physical traits.
It was probably a bad post on my part, but I'm glad it has led to a good discussion.
It looks like what those misses by Ruiz shows is that elite physical traits can make up for some of the things he sees on tape. Don't see Mac as possessing those elite physical traits.
Ruiz is fine, he's not better or worse than anyone else covering the draft... nobody gets every pick right, and NFL teams also generally missed on Mahomes and Watson too, if anyone really projected them to become what they did they'd have gone at the very top of the draft.
Honestly.. the Mahomes one for example, the grade of the pick turned out ugly, but was the evaluation itself wrong? He did need a year before he was NFL ready, and he does bail out of pockets, and he does have crazy mechanics... it just turned out that he fixed some things, he reads the field better (also he has an incredible offense and coach to help him) and also has insane arm talent. If Mahomes goes to the Jets is he Mahomes? Who knows, maybe he's just a big armed slinger running for his life and throwing into double coverage half the time because the offense is simplistic and the WR talent in marginal.
He actually addressed being wrong on Herbert in that pod, and how it impacted him this year.
One thing he also noted in that pod that I thought was really good was... it;s hard to judge college QBs, because so little of what you see is directly comparable to the NFL, whether that is play style, competition level, etc.
I wasn't a fan of Herbert or Watson during the draft, either, so I can't dock him for those. And Mahomes was a bit of a question mark coming out of school. But his actual analysis on Mahomes? Its literally the exact opposite of all of his strengths as an NFL starter. Its one of the most backwards analysis's that I've read.
To be fair, I don't watch much college ball, so maybe they were fair assessments coming out of school. But if thats the case, then you don't need to look further than Mahomes to see why the draft is a crapshoot.
Is this true? I could be mistaken, but considering his athletic ability, it feels like he sits in the pocket more often than he should, not less.
I don't have good source on numbers, but through his first 19 games he was averaging 8.74 passes thrown outside the pocket per game, more than 1 per game ahead of Rodgers who they note in the article as one of the league leaders in passes thrown outside the pocket.
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-highest-graded-nfl-quarterbacks-on-plays-outside-of-the-pocket
Mahomes throws from outside the pocket, a lot.
He may not be accurate when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks, but I sure do appreciate his Uncle Rico reference.
The fact that he wrote "them mountains" and not "them THAR mountains" automatically invalidates all the subsequent conclusions.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/as-ohio-state-qb-justin-fields-draft-stock-trends-downward-everyone-is-left-searching-for-answers/
"Justin Fields is turning out to be this draft season's piñata to smash. That's all but official now. The Ohio State quarterback who led his team to a pair of Big Ten titles and College Football Playoff berths has done nothing but drop lately in the eyes of pundits and perhaps the NFL teams who manipulate them.
Fields came into the draft as the clear No. 2 quarterback to be taken behind Clemson's Trevor Lawrence. Then, stuff happened. Though Fields showed well at his pro day showcases, puzzling whispers began to surface questioning both his work ethic and consistency."
Drop, baby, drop!
"Justin Fields is turning out to be this draft season's piñata to smash. That's all but official now. The Ohio State quarterback who led his team to a pair of Big Ten titles and College Football Playoff berths has done nothing but drop lately in the eyes of pundits and perhaps the NFL teams who manipulate them.
Fields came into the draft as the clear No. 2 quarterback to be taken behind Clemson's Trevor Lawrence. Then, stuff happened. Though Fields showed well at his pro day showcases, puzzling whispers began to surface questioning both his work ethic and consistency."
Drop, baby, drop!
The last 36 hours in this thread certainly seem to be validating the other thread I started a few weeks ago...
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/before-the-draft-tales-told-by-idiots-full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying-nothing.33229/
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/before-the-draft-tales-told-by-idiots-full-of-sound-and-fury-signifying-nothing.33229/
I liked reading through this ... it's like those brutally honest Oscar ballots
https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class
https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class
And yet we're seeing more and more stories that he may go 3rd after all. Yes, that's not #2, but it is the Jets picking second, they don't count.
But I hope he drops and plays with a chip on his shoulder and year's from now we watch the Fields 4 doc.
The Wilson quote reminds me of the best tweet of draft season:
View: https://twitter.com/QBKlass/status/1362134418681339905
Didn't know where to put this, but this thread gets the most traction:
Reiss: Last year's first round lasted 3 hours, 54 minutes. In 2019, it was 3 hours, 39 minutes. So splitting the difference with an average of 7 minutes per selection, and factoring in the Patriots' initial pick at No. 15, the team would be on the clock at about 9:45 p.m. ET.
Reiss: Last year's first round lasted 3 hours, 54 minutes. In 2019, it was 3 hours, 39 minutes. So splitting the difference with an average of 7 minutes per selection, and factoring in the Patriots' initial pick at No. 15, the team would be on the clock at about 9:45 p.m. ET.
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