Pats: Minicamp Catch-all Thread

Mystic Merlin

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Would’ve been surprising if he showed up, Giardi reported many months ago that Gilmore wasn’t gonna touch the field without a new deal.
 

BaseballJones

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I think the Patriots had an idea this was coming. If they weren't willing to bump up his pay, they would have traded him. I guess they still could, but now there's less leverage. So this tells me they're willing to pay him.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think the Patriots had an idea this was coming. If they weren't willing to bump up his pay, they would have traded him. I guess they still could, but now there's less leverage. So this tells me they're willing to pay him.
Yes. Even if they don't want to sign him long-term, they can give him a boost this year. None of this should be a surprise to anyone.
 

tims4wins

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Agreed with these takes, the Pats will either bump him up for 2021 in isolation, or tack on another 2 years and give him $30M+
 

Harry Hooper

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It would be essentially malpractice by the Gilmore camp to let him participate in practice and risk some mishap until a new deal is in place.
 

sodenj5

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Gilmore seems like a strange fit for NE’s current roster. Pats are clearly in a transitional period, and Cam is a bridge to Mac Jones who NE obviously hopes is the long term answer.

They might be good this year, or they might hover around .500 again. The defense is certainly better with Gilmore than without, but why commit the extra dollars and resources for this year?
 

BigSoxFan

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I remain disappointed that he wasn’t traded last fall. But I’ll take him back on a reasonable 2 year deal.
 

tims4wins

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I remain disappointed that he wasn’t traded last fall. But I’ll take him back on a reasonable 2 year deal.
Or even go back to March 2020. But I agree, they kind of missed the window on this one.

@sodenj5 I agree that giving him an extra $5M or whatever just to play in 2021 doesn't make any sense. Whatever they give him needs to add years.
 

Jimbodandy

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Gilmore seems like a strange fit for NE’s current roster. Pats are clearly in a transitional period, and Cam is a bridge to Mac Jones who NE obviously hopes is the long term answer.

They might be good this year, or they might hover around .500 again. The defense is certainly better with Gilmore than without, but why commit the extra dollars and resources for this year?
It's an important position where it's hard to have too much depth. I'd love to hear why we wouldn't want to spend the money there. They're not punting on this year, and punting on Gilmore weakens the team.
 

BigSoxFan

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Or even go back to March 2020. But I agree, they kind of missed the window on this one.

@sodenj5 I agree that giving him an extra $5M or whatever just to play in 2021 doesn't make any sense. Whatever they give him needs to add years.
At this point, I think you let him play it out and take the comp pick in 2023 draft, if a fair extension can’t be worked out. I think we’re now in Marcus Smart territory, due to a variety of factors, where the potential return won’t be worth dealing him.

Ball control and defense will be this team’s calling card so hard to justify dealing him now unless he goes nuclear on us.
 

tims4wins

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At this point, I think you let him play it out and take the comp pick in 2023 draft, if a fair extension can’t be worked out. I think we’re now in Marcus Smart territory, due to a variety of factors, where the potential return won’t be worth dealing him.

Ball control and defense will be this team’s calling card so hard to justify dealing him now unless he goes nuclear on us.
I'm in agreement, the return isn't worth it or else they likely would have dealt him pre-draft. I guess I could see them throwing him a bone in the form of a few million to get him to play the whole season as opposed to sitting out until week 10 or whatever it is to have the season count for his contract. Almost like a thank you / parting gift, akin to what they did for Brady.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Gilmore and the Pats have handled their business relatively quietly as star player contract issues go (see the 5M salary bump right before the season last year) so this should follow suit.
 

BigSoxFan

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Gilmore and the Pats have handled their business relatively quietly as star player contract issues go (see the 5M salary bump right before the season last year) so this should follow suit.
Yup. Not expecting fireworks. At his age, he needs to get out there and prove he’s healthy and still elite. They’ll take care of him and we’ll probably just see him leave next offseason without much fanfare.
 

sonofgodcf

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The toilet.
I've long wondered if Hoyer isn't McDaniels' eventual replacement. I can't see this team carrying four QB's, and I've always thought they liked Hoyer because he understands the system well, but just didn't have the skills to elevate a team.
 

RG33

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Some of these throws from Cam are a little uh...rough
Wow. That brought back some bad thoughts from last year. That is not a great sign that fundamentals have been a focus for Cam in the offseason. Lol
 

Cellar-Door

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My takeaways from that clip was...
Cam had grip trouble in the rain and was trying to fire everything in on a line.
Cam had way more on the ball than Jones.
Not always good, but I worry a bit about how floaty and soft those throws from Mac were.

Both looked.. okay? It's rain drills without D, so not gonna take much from it.
 

Shelterdog

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Wow. That brought back some bad thoughts from last year. That is not a great sign that fundamentals have been a focus for Cam in the offseason. Lol
Pretty much every single off-season story in any sport about a player working on X or being in great shape or whatever is bullshit. You can get some marginal improvements year to year (and sometimes you're lucky enough to find a player who steadily improves over a long period of time) but generally a 31 year old qb isn't going to be all that different than 30 year old qb unless there's a particular injury that healed or something.

I certainly think Cam could have better passing numbers this year with better receivers and a better command of the offense but he's just never going to be Tom Brady or Dree Brees. (Hell even really really good pocket passers aren't usually like Tom Brady).
 

reggiecleveland

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Wow. That brought back some bad thoughts from last year. That is not a great sign that fundamentals have been a focus for Cam in the offseason. Lol
Not sure. Jack Nicklaus famously went to his coach and started with his grip each off season, and step be step broke down his swing. I thought it was a scam to sell books, but seems it was true. I have worked with pro players, and from time to time offer fundamental advice. More often at that level they will come to me, "Coach I want my elbow 'here' if it is 'here' tell me." If a guy is shooting poorly he may ask for technique advice. Most pro/college teams end up with players and coaches working with particular guys on particular things. On NBA teams you will even find the GM gets a relationship with a player around his shot. Meta World Peace says he and Larry Bird had great relationship working on his skills, while other guys found Larry focused on technique too little.
 

Jimbodandy

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Not sure. Jack Nicklaus famously went to his coach and started with his grip each off season, and step be step broke down his swing. I thought it was a scam to sell books, but seems it was true. I have worked with pro players, and from time to time offer fundamental advice. More often at that level they will come to me, "Coach I want my elbow 'here' if it is 'here' tell me." If a guy is shooting poorly he may ask for technique advice. Most pro/college teams end up with players and coaches working with particular guys on particular things. On NBA teams you will even find the GM gets a relationship with a player around his shot. Meta World Peace says he and Larry Bird had great relationship working on his skills, while other guys found Larry focused on technique too little.
Always found this shit fascinating to hear/read about. Golf and tennis are such individual games, and tennis has the vast differences in play style across surfaces. It's understandable that they all have coaches. But batters have always astounded me. You're a pro for years and still tweaking your swing, opening and closing stances, leg kick changes. The stones that it must take to do that after 5 years in the bigs (or the desperation). If you're old enough to remember 1970s Dewey and 1980s Dewey, you're lucky.
 

Bowser

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But batters have always astounded me. You're a pro for years and still tweaking your swing, opening and closing stances, leg kick changes. The stones that it must take to do that after 5 years in the bigs (or the desperation). If you're old enough to remember 1970s Dewey and 1980s Dewey, you're lucky.
With hitters, I wonder if the constant tinkering has to do with failing 70% of the time they step up to the plate.
 

reggiecleveland

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Always found this shit fascinating to hear/read about. Golf and tennis are such individual games, and tennis has the vast differences in play style across surfaces. It's understandable that they all have coaches. But batters have always astounded me. You're a pro for years and still tweaking your swing, opening and closing stances, leg kick changes. The stones that it must take to do that after 5 years in the bigs (or the desperation). If you're old enough to remember 1970s Dewey and 1980s Dewey, you're lucky.
Improve of die. That is how it works. Generally you have to be better than last year, to put up the same numbers.

I can't find it, but there was really good opinion piece in SI or another magazine about how hard sports was, how fans don't get it. One of the examples was Fisk, at that time with the White Sox, had an injury that did not allow himself to swing the same way, so in his late 30s remade an entirely new swing, new bat path, new trigger, new stance, new approach to each and every pitch, and had several more good years.

In many ways this is why "(insert former star) couldn't play today" is so insulting to these guys. Really you think Michael Jordan couldn't learn to shoot 3s? Really you think Ted Williams could figure out how to hit 95+? Constant improvement is name of the game.
 

Shelterdog

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In many ways this is why "(insert former star) couldn't play today" is so insulting to these guys. Really you think Michael Jordan couldn't learn to shoot 3s? Really you think Ted Williams could figure out how to hit 95+? Constant improvement is name of the game.
Wilt with modern strength, conditioning, and birth control!
 

DJnVa

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Big storyline from today was the sizable increase in reps Mac Jones saw. Cam Newton continued to lead off, but Jones attempted the most passes in team drills. QB stats: Jones: 17 of 25 (9 of 13 in 11s) Newton: 9 of 17 (5 of 9) Stidham: 5 of 8 (3 of 5) Hoyer: none

1:02 PM · Jun 15, 2021
 

Cellar-Door

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Mills appears to be getting in great positions, and to have shit hands, every writeup is.... Mills dropped picks from basically every QB.