Patriots sign WR KJ Osborn

Van Everyman

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Sorry, you're correct. Messed up the dates.
I do think your general point is correct, though, that they have been looking for teams’ #2 or 3 receivers. Of course that’s because they never drafted a consensus top receiver under Bill or developed one really. Which was a luxury they had with Tom

But I’m not convinced they won’t begin to that now. I think there’s at least a chance they draft MHJ with #3 and, if not, swing for the fences with receivers more than they have given how the league has changed.

They let Jakobi go, and then signed JuJu as his "replacement" for a little less money.

Jakobi: 3/33
JuJu: 3/25
Unpopular opinion but I’m not convinced this was as indefensible a decision as it seemed – esp. if Bill had already decided Mac wasn’t long for the team, it didn’t make sense to overpay for his fine-but-nothing-special binky. The only reason he did ok last year was that he had Adams hoovering up all the double coverages.
 

BaseballJones

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Unpopular opinion but I’m not convinced this was as indefensible a decision as it seemed – esp. if Bill had already decided Mac wasn’t long for the team, it didn’t make sense to overpay for his fine-but-nothing-special binky. The only reason he did ok last year was that he had Adams hoovering up all the double coverages.
I agree with you on this.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I do think your general point is correct, though, that they have been looking for teams’ #2 or 3 receivers. Of course that’s because they never drafted a consensus top receiver under Bill or developed one really. Which was a luxury they had with Tom

But I’m not convinced they won’t begin to that now. I think there’s at least a chance they draft MHJ with #3 and, if not, swing for the fences with receivers more than they have given how the league has changed.


Unpopular opinion but I’m not convinced this was as indefensible a decision as it seemed – esp. if Bill had already decided Mac wasn’t long for the team, it didn’t make sense to overpay for his fine-but-nothing-special binky. The only reason he did ok last year was that he had Adams hoovering up all the double coverages.
I love MHJ, but goddamn, if they draft a wide receiver at #3 without a plan for an actual franchise QB (at least taking a shot at one), they should be fired into the sun. I'd rather see them trade down a few spots and get Nabors/Odunze and stockpile picks for the future if that's the route they want to go. MHJ and Brisset turns this into a 6-8 win team and NFL purgatory.
 

Deathofthebambino

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MHJ and....Nix as the QB of the future?
I could be wrong, but if Bo Nix is the QB of the future for this team, I don't think the future is very bright. Dude, at 24 years old, better be able to beat out Jacoby Brissett or I'm not sure how long you can wait. This isn't Jordan Love sitting behind Aaron Rodgers.

And there's that other problem, who is going to protect the blindside if they go MHJ and then Nix? Again, I love MHJ, but I just see no avenue for this team (absent some crazy trade or trades or subsequent free agents that get cut) to take him and have it make sense.
 

E5 Yaz

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I could be wrong, but if Bo Nix is the QB of the future for this team, I don't think the future is very bright. Dude, at 24 years old, better be able to beat out Jacoby Brissett or I'm not sure how long you can wait. This isn't Jordan Love sitting behind Aaron Rodgers.

And there's that other problem, who is going to protect the blindside if they go MHJ and then Nix? Again, I love MHJ, but I just see no avenue for this team (absent some crazy trade or trades or subsequent free agents that get cut) to take him and have it make sense.
Devil's advocate, because I'm not convinced this makes sense, but if they would up with 11 and 23, and have 34, ... they could conceivably draft a LT/WR/QB in those spots though obviously not MHJ.
They'd have to hope like heck they get two of those to hit, though, for the price of dropping out of #3 ... with the caveat being that the "third QB" is no certainty of fixing the problem himself
 

Deathofthebambino

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Devil's advocate, because I'm not convinced this makes sense, but if they would up with 11 and 23, and have 34, ... they could conceivably draft a LT/WR/QB in those spots though obviously not MHJ.
They'd have to hope like heck they get two of those to hit, though, for the price of dropping out of #3 ... with the caveat being that the "third QB" is no certainty of fixing the problem himself
Yeah, that's a totally different set of circumstances than taking MHJ at #3. That's why I said above if they aren't going QB at #3, I'd rather see them trade down, stockpile picks and go for all of those positions (although I still think they'll need to find their actual franchise QB another way).

Going from 3 to 11 wouldn't just get them #23 either. They'd better also be getting Minny's #1 next year, and I'd be pushing for their 3rd next year as well.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, that's a totally different set of circumstances than taking MHJ at #3. That's why I said above if they aren't going QB at #3, I'd rather see them trade down, stockpile picks and go for all of those positions (although I still think they'll need to find their actual franchise QB another way).

Going from 3 to 11 wouldn't just get them #23 either. They'd better also be getting Minny's #1 next year, and I'd be pushing for their 3rd next year as well.
Agreed, I was just setting the landscape for this year's draft under that scenario
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Jakobi left partly bc he was seen as a Mac locker room guy since he deigned to suggest that having Matty P might be a stupid fucking choice for OC.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Gonna need some sources on that one.
I've heard this alluded to on various podcasts with Curran and Perry, on patriots.com's Patriots Unfiltered and, I believe on Six Rings and Football Things. I didn't think this assertion was anything like controversial. Even just knowing BB as we do, do we honestly believe he took kindly to the following or didn't hold it against Meyers when they didn't work very hard to retain him a couple years ago?

“As for Jakobi Meyers [as reported by NFL Media’s Mike Giardi] … he said that ‘Confidence isn’t an issue.’ But he also said, and this one stuck to me: ‘I question what the plan is sometimes and how we’re going to attack.’ … That sort of put the focus again on Matt Patricia and that offensive collaboration as they try to get it done without Josh McDaniels.”

The Patriots offense has both heavily scrutinized and much maligned since the start of the offseason. With offensive line coach Matt Patricia and quarterbacks coach Joe Judge taking the most prominent roles, questions have been abound as to whether New England erred in placing the offensive responsibilities in the hands of two coaches with little experience in that area.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-pittsburgh-steelers-jakobi-meyers-mac-jones-matt-patricia-joe-judge
 

Eddie Jurak

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Here's the thing. How do you compare the production of a KJ Osborn type to Jacoby Meyers?

Meyers was that Pats #4 WR (by targets) in 2019, then their #1 for 3 years, then he went to Vegas and was the #2 behind Davante Adams.

KJ Osborn got zero offensive snaps as a rookie, and was the #3 WR in the next three seasons, but for the first 2 of those he was behind Jefferson and Thielen, and in the third year he was behind Jefferson and a first round rookie (Addison).

Had the switched places, Meyers would have been the #3 guy in AZ for those first 2 years because there is no way he was going to be targeted more than the other 2 guys. Maybe last year he is the #2, but he's abolsutely not at Jefferson's level or even close to that.

And Osborn, had he been in NE, would have had more opportunity and more tagrets than he did in AZ.

He did have a down year last year, but he took a one year prove-it deal and he's coming into a situation where the playing time and targets will be there for him to earn if he plays well.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Here's the thing. How do you compare the production of a KJ Osborn type to Jacoby Meyers?

Meyers was that Pats #4 WR (by targets) in 2019, then their #1 for 3 years, then he went to Vegas and was the #2 behind Davante Adams.

KJ Osborn got zero offensive snaps as a rookie, and was the #3 WR in the next three seasons, but for the first 2 of those he was behind Jefferson and Thielen, and in the third year he was behind Jefferson and a first round rookie (Addison).

Had the switched places, Meyers would have been the #3 guy in AZ for those first 2 years because there is no way he was going to be targeted more than the other 2 guys. Maybe last year he is the #2, but he's abolsutely not at Jefferson's level or even close to that.

And Osborn, had he been in NE, would have had more opportunity and more tagrets than he did in AZ.

He did have a down year last year, but he took a one year prove-it deal and he's coming into a situation where the playing time and targets will be there for him to earn if he plays well.
I've always said Meyers is a #3 option masquerading as a #2, but being used as a #1 in New England. He's a #2 in Las Vegas only because Mayer was a rookie at tight end, their running back (Jacobs) isn't a real three down back and isn't a great receiver, and their remaining group of WR's was led by the corpse of Hunter Renfrow.

Osborn is and always was the #4 option in Minnesota. Even in 2021 when he became the true #3 WR, Tyler Conklin had more targets (87) than Osborn did. The following year, the only reason he had more targets than Hockenson at 90-86 (and less than Jefferson and Theilen) was because Hockenson played 7 less games for Minnesota than Osborn did. Then last year, Hockenson led the team with 127 targets, JJ had 100 (but he missed 7 games) and Addison had 108. Osborn finished with 75.

Now folks could view this one of two ways, Osborn is really a #3 WR or #4 receiving option on a team with a good tight end, or he was blocked by studs in front of him and is looking to break out. I personally think its the former because if Minnesota had seen what they needed from Osborn, they wouldn't have needed to go and spend a first rounder on Addison and trade for Hockenson. I would love to be wrong, but Osborn is a short (5'11) 200 pound guy who ran a 4.48 at the combine (and doesn't appear to be getting faster and will be slower outdoors than in the dome), and didn't do much while playing a lot of college football (mostly in the MAC for Buffalo). Bourne is actually slower, but he's bigger and I think he's a more crisp route runner (although that remains to be seen coming off an injury).

But IMO, none of these guys move any needles. It's more of the same, but if we follow the model of Miami, Philly, Buffalo, GB, etc., this is the year you get your QB, and then you start looking for studs to put around them next year and the year after. The Pats, IMO, didn't do that for Mac in year two (plus they fucked up the coaching situation) or year three and Mac didn't do himself any favors either, but I'm going to hold out hope they learned their lesson from that experience.