Patriots Roster Projection 1.0

[RedOctober3829]

As of now, here's what I see in terms of a 53 man roster for the Patriots

QB(3)--Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe, Malik Cunningham
RB(4)--Rhamondre Stevenson, Pierre Strong, Kevin Harris, RB not on the roster yet(my projection is Zeke Elliott)
WR(5)--DeVante Parker, Juju, Kendrick Bourne, Tyquan Thortnon, Demario Douglas
OL(9)--Trent Brown, Cole Strange, David Andrews, Mike Onwenu, Riley Reiff, Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews, Atonio Mafi, Conor McDermott
TE(3)--Hunter Henry, Mike Gesicki, Matt Sokol
IDL(4)--Lawrence Guy, Davon Godcheaux, Christian Barmore, Carl Davis
EDGE/OLB(6)--Matt Judon, Josh Uche, Keion White, Anfernee Jennings, Jahlani Tavai, Deatrich Wise
ILB(3)--Ja'Whaun Bentley, Mack Wilson, Marte Mapu
CB(5)--Christian Gonzalez, Jon Jones, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Myles Bryant
SAF(5)--Adrian Phillips, Kyle Dugger, Jabrilll Peppers, Josh Bledsoe, Jalen Mills
ST(6)--Chad Ryland, Brice Baringer, Joe Cardona, Matt Slater, Brendan Schooler, Chris Board

PUP: Trey Flowers, Cody Davis
IR: Ty Montgomery
NFI: Calvin Anderson

Last 4 on: Malik Cunningham, Conor McDermott, Jalen Mills, Matt Sokol
Last 4 cut: Kayson Boutte, Kody Russey, CJ Marable, Ameer Speed

 

[ManicCompression]

ST(6)--Chad Ryland, Brice Baringer, Joe Cardona, Matt Slater, Brendan Schooler, Chris Board

I hope we don't cut a young player with upside like Boutte in favor of keeping a 26 YO special teams only player in Schooler.

Special teams is becoming an increasingly smaller part of football due to rules changes and dedicating 6 roster spots to players who can't contribute anywhere else seems like a misallocation of resources. I know Slater's not going anywhere and Board was just signed to big money for a special teams role player, so it's gotta be Schooler.

 

[BaseballJones]

Special teams was probably THE key factor in at least two games for the Pats last year - the 10-3 win over the Jets which was won by the Pats on the last second punt return for a TD by Marcus Jones, and the 35-23 loss to the Bills in which the Pats gave up two (!) kickoff returns for touchdowns.

 

[cshea]

Special teams was probably THE key factor in at least two games for the Pats last year - the 10-3 win over the Jets which was won by the Pats on the last second punt return for a TD by Marcus Jones, and the 35-23 loss to the Bills in which the Pats gave up two (!) kickoff returns for touchdowns.

I'd argue that ST factored into at least 2 additional losses.

The Vegas game they gave up a blocked punt, with 36 seconds left in the half that set up Vegas at the Patriots 20 and 2 players later the Raiders made it a 17-3 game. They get that punt off and it's likely 10-3 at half and who knows how the rest plays out.

The Vikings game the Pats took a 23-16 lead early in the 3rd quarter and immediately gave up a KR touchdown for Minny to tie the game.

Then, of course, the Buffalo fiasco. From what I can tell there were 6 KR TD's in the NFL last season and the Patriots were responsible for giving up 3 of them.

I've raged quite a bit at Cam Achord's continued emplyment considering these data points but alas he's still here. I'm not smart enough to determine if Schooler is good or part of the problem but I don't think now is the time to be cut corners with ST guys. They need dudes who can play.

 

[ManicCompression]

Special teams was probably THE key factor in at least two games for the Pats last year - the 10-3 win over the Jets which was won by the Pats on the last second punt return for a TD by Marcus Jones, and the 35-23 loss to the Bills in which the Pats gave up two (!) kickoff returns for touchdowns.

Yep, and I would say that:

- If we had better players on offense last year, we wouldn't need a miracle punt return to win a game against a pretty bad offensive team

- The roster had several "special teams only" players like Schooler and Slater and they still let up two kickoff touchdowns (with all of the focus they put on Special Teams, two kickoff touchdowns!), so maybe there's a level of variability to special teams that can't be controlled through roster building

- Having a kicker who can actually reach the end zone on kickoffs would be a nice change of pace (Pats were 30th in the league last year) - touchbacks by definition can't be returned for touchdowns

- Teams are going to open themselves up to more special teams variability when they can't move the ball - more punts totally, more punts from compromised positions, FGs from further outside the redzone, less breathing room in between special teams possessions (meaning a three and out forces the unit back out onto the field in short order, and though I can't for the life of me find three and out rates, I believe it was pretty high for the Patriots)

Whatever "special teams" losses we had were really offensive losses - the Raiders were one of the worst defenses in the league last year, and the Patriots scored one offensive touchdown against them. They were forcing games to be decided on basically chance interceptions and special teams - the stuff that we can tend to overstate is part of the BB design - because they were incapable of winning games with a competent offense. I don't know if Boutte will contribute to a competent offense - no one does - but there's at least upside that he can do so for multiple years (particularly with how frequently injuries happen to WRs) and that seems like a better gamble than 11 special teams tackles and maybe one field switching play from Schooler.

 

[mcpickl]

I hope we don't cut a young player with upside like Boutte in favor of keeping a 26 YO special teams only player in Schooler.

Special teams is becoming an increasingly smaller part of football due to rules changes and dedicating 6 roster spots to players who can't contribute anywhere else seems like a misallocation of resources. I know Slater's not going anywhere and Board was just signed to big money for a special teams role player, so it's gotta be Schooler.

Schooler is a near lock to make the team.

If you don't like the limited amount of snaps special teamers play, you'll really hate finding out how many snaps your 6th receiver will play every week.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

QB(3)--Malik Cunningham, Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe

RB(4)--Rhamondre Stevenson, Malik Cunningham, Pierre Strong, Zeke Elliott

WR(5)--Malik Cunningham, DeVante Parker, Juju, Kendrick Bourne, Tyquan Thortnon

OL(9)--Trent Brown, Cole Strange, David Andrews, Mike Onwenu, Riley Reiff, Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews, Atonio Mafi, Malik Cunningham

TE(3)--Hunter Henry, Mike Gesicki, Malik Cunningham

IDL(4)--Lawrence Guy, Davon Godcheaux, Christian Barmore, Carl Davis

EDGE/OLB(6)--Matt Judon, Josh Uche, Keion White, Anfernee Jennings, Deatrich Wise, Malik Cunningham (pass coverage specialist)

ILB(3)--Ja'Whaun Bentley, Mack Wilson, Marte Mapu

CB(5)--Christian Gonzalez, Jon Jones, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Malik Cunningham

SAF(5)--Adrian Phillips, Kyle Dugger, Jabrilll Peppers, Malik Cunningham, Jalen Mills

ST(6)--Chad Ryland, Brice Baringer, Joe Cardona, Matt Slater, Brendan Schooler, Chris Board

PUP: Trey Flowers, Cody Davis
IR: Ty Montgomery
NFI: Calvin Anderson

Last 4 on: Conor McDermott, Jalen Mills, Matt Sokol
Last 4 cut: Kayson Boutte, Kody Russey, CJ Marable, Ameer Speed

 

[BaseballJones]

So you have Cunningham listed twice. That would free up a roster spot.

 

[lexrageorge]

So you have Cunningham listed twice. That would free up a roster spot.

He forgot to add him as OL.

 

[BaseballJones]

He forgot to add him as OL.

Oh haha I totally didn't even notice that he's all over the roster. LOL

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

So you have Cunningham listed twice. That would free up a roster spot.

He forgot to add him as OL.

False.

 

[Shelterdog]

Yep, and I would say that:

- If we had better players on offense last year, we wouldn't need a miracle punt return to win a game against a pretty bad offensive team

- The roster had several "special teams only" players like Schooler and Slater and they still let up two kickoff touchdowns (with all of the focus they put on Special Teams, two kickoff touchdowns!), so maybe there's a level of variability to special teams that can't be controlled through roster building

- Having a kicker who can actually reach the end zone on kickoffs would be a nice change of pace (Pats were 30th in the league last year) - touchbacks by definition can't be returned for touchdowns

- Teams are going to open themselves up to more special teams variability when they can't move the ball - more punts totally, more punts from compromised positions, FGs from further outside the redzone, less breathing room in between special teams possessions (meaning a three and out forces the unit back out onto the field in short order, and though I can't for the life of me find three and out rates, I believe it was pretty high for the Patriots)

Whatever "special teams" losses we had were really offensive losses - the Raiders were one of the worst defenses in the league last year, and the Patriots scored one offensive touchdown against them. They were forcing games to be decided on basically chance interceptions and special teams - the stuff that we can tend to overstate is part of the BB design - because they were incapable of winning games with a competent offense. I don't know if Boutte will contribute to a competent offense - no one does - but there's at least upside that he can do so for multiple years (particularly with how frequently injuries happen to WRs) and that seems like a better gamble than 11 special teams tackles and maybe one field switching play from Schooler.

Just so you know like every single NFL team disagrees with you and carries four Schooler types.

carry on.

 

[lexrageorge]

False.

Read IDL as OL - my bad. Inside defense is the one place he is not listed.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Read IDL as OL - my bad. Inside defense is the one place he is not listed.

Bro. Why would he be listed there? Be realistic.

 

[ManicCompression]

If you don't like the limited amount of snaps special teamers play, you'll really hate finding out how many snaps your 6th receiver will play every week.

Between JuJu's injury history, Devante's injury history, Thornton's frame, and Bourne's tendency to go into the dog house, depth at WR seems pretty important. I can see multiple scenarios where the sixth receiver becomes the fourth or third option. I'd rather have the upside of Boutte than rely on a street free agent in the middle of the season, never mind long-term upside.

Just so you know like every single NFL team disagrees with you and carries four Schooler types.

Can you show your work? You don't have to list every team. Just share four guys who are on two different playoff teams that have absolutely no upside of contributing at any other position. So they're not young guys who have potential elsewhere. They're not your Cassius Marsh types, because he actually took snaps at DE. Four guys in the prime of their career who will not see the field outside of special teams. You might be right, I'd just like to see proof of it.

 

[Shelterdog]

Between JuJu's injury history, Devante's injury history, Thornton's frame, and Bourne's tendency to go into the dog house, depth at WR seems pretty important. I can see multiple scenarios where the sixth receiver becomes the fourth or third option. I'd rather have the upside of Boutte than rely on a street free agent in the middle of the season, never mind long-term upside.



Can you show your work? You don't have to list every team. Just share four guys who are on two different playoff teams that have absolutely no upside of contributing at any other position. So they're not young guys who have potential elsewhere. They're not your Cassius Marsh types, because he actually took snaps at DE. Four guys in the prime of their career who will not see the field outside of special teams. You might be right, I'd just like to see proof of it.

While I wouldn't--and didn't-go as far as saying every team has fourish guys who have zero upside and never ever see the field outside of special teams, NFL teams do routinely have four or so core special teams players who aren't contributing to that team much other than being like really fucking good at running up and down tthe field smashing people who don't have much of a future at other positions and who only play on regular units incidentally.

The 2022 Chiefs top seven special teams guys include three (Bush, Chanal, Grey) who were either promising younger players and/or played regularly on offense or defense but also includes four guys (Lammons, Cochrane, Burton, Bush) who are special teams only guys (lowly drafted guys only playing teams and/or older guys who aren't really playing on regular units.) 2022 Eagles is the same story --top seven special teams players by snaps include Nakobe Dean who definitely has promise for the futures, Zach Pascal who plays about 400 snaps at wide receiver and had about 15 catches so he's a mostly there for special teams guys, Patrick Johnson who is a recent seventh round pick who played 250 snaps of defense so you judge for yourself whether that guy has much real promise, and then four players (mcpherson, kvan wallce, shaun bradley, joseh jobe) who basically only played special teams.

 

[rodderick]

While I wouldn't--and didn't-go as far as saying every team has fourish guys who have zero upside and never ever see the field outside of special teams, NFL teams do routinely have four or so core special teams players who aren't contributing to that team much other than being like really fucking good at running up and down tthe field smashing people who don't have much of a future at other positions and who only play on regular units incidentally.

The 2022 Chiefs top seven special teams guys include three (Bush, Chanal, Grey) who were either promising younger players and/or played regularly on offense or defense but also includes four guys (Lammons, Cochrane, Burton, Bush) who are special teams only guys (lowly drafted guys only playing teams and/or older guys who aren't really playing on regular units.) 2022 Eagles is the same story --top seven special teams players by snaps include Nakobe Dean who definitely has promise for the futures, Zach Pascal who plays about 400 snaps at wide receiver and had about 15 catches so he's a mostly there for special teams guys, Patrick Johnson who is a recent seventh round pick who played 250 snaps of defense so you judge for yourself whether that guy has much real promise, and then four players (mcpherson, kvan wallce, shaun bradley, joseh jobe) who basically only played special teams.

Funny enough, the Chiefs and Eagles had the two worst special teams in the league last year according to Rick Gosselin's metrics.

 

[Shelterdog]

Funny enough, the Chiefs and Eagles had the two worst special teams in the league last year according to Rick Gosselin's metrics.

I didn't know that, just picked the two super bowl teams because that seems the least cherry-pickingest way to pick two teams to show that NFL teams tend to dedicate roughly four spots, maybe more, to pure coverage type guys. The Texans--top in Goesslein's ratings-had seven special teams guys who were basically specialists (not sure if all were rostered at once)--the top seven special teams coverage guys by snaps played between 23 and 200 offensive or defensive snaps so basically seven cody davis's, none of those top seven are younger high draft picks with upside.

I think the reality is this: in every NFL games there ballpark 12 punts and KO returns, plus another 8 touchbacks, so 20 windsprints, more than half of them quite physical, a game, position players get worn out doing in, and if you don't have a core contingent of fast/well conditioned/nuts dudes leading the way, bad things happen. And since you're talkng about a 53 man roster, how many teams really have a 50th guy who has some great potential?

 

[E5 Yaz]

... how many teams really have a 50th guy who has some great potential?

Outside of the 2000 Patriots, not many

 

[axx]

Outside of the 2000 Patriots, not many

Michael Bishop?

 

[Shelterdog]

Outside of the 2000 Patriots, not many

The first 49 weren’t so hot on that team either

 

[E5 Yaz]

Michael Bishop?

No, the fourth-string QB, according to PFRef

 

[joe dokes]

Can you show your work? You don't have to list every team. Just share four guys who are on two different playoff teams that have absolutely no upside of contributing at any other position. So they're not young guys who have potential elsewhere. They're not your Cassius Marsh types, because he actually took snaps at DE. Four guys in the prime of their career who will not see the field outside of special teams. You might be right, I'd just like to see proof of it.

Sticking to good teams....
Based on snap counts, Bengals had Chris Evans 155ST/18RB; Joe Bachie 168/13; Clay Johnson 315/1; Michael Thomas 289/25;

 

[rodderick]

I didn't know that, just picked the two super bowl teams because that seems the least cherry-pickingest way to pick two teams to show that NFL teams tend to dedicate roughly four spots, maybe more, to pure coverage type guys. The Texans--top in Goesslein's ratings-had seven special teams guys who were basically specialists (not sure if all were rostered at once)--the top seven special teams coverage guys by snaps played between 23 and 200 offensive or defensive snaps so basically seven cody davis's, none of those top seven are younger high draft picks with upside.

I think the reality is this: in every NFL games there ballpark 12 punts and KO returns, plus another 8 touchbacks, so 20 windsprints, more than half of them quite physical, a game, position players get worn out doing in, and if you don't have a core contingent of fast/well conditioned/nuts dudes leading the way, bad things happen. And since you're talkng about a 53 man roster, how many teams really have a 50th guy who has some great potential?

I think the actual answer might be more that special teams matters very little in today's game and with the rule changes for next season it probably matters even less than ever before.

 

[Shelterdog]

I think the actual answer might be more that special teams matters very little in today's game and with the rule changes for next season it probably matters even less than ever before.

Wait, the actual answer to why every NFL team has lots of special teams players is that special teams don't matter? The team's behavior suggests they all do think special teams coverage players are fairly valuable.

Totally agree that they might matter less in the future, we'll see what happens to roster construction if they do.

 

[rodderick]

Wait, the actual answer to why every NFL team has lots of special teams players is that special teams don't matter?

Totally agree that they might matter less in the future, we'll see what happens to roster construction if they do.

Never said special teams don't matter, just that when the worst team in football has great special teams and the Super Bowl participants are at the bottom of the league, it might indicate it's not where you'd want to utilize resources in order to change your fortunes.

 

[Shelterdog]

Never said special teams don't matter, just that when the worst team in football has great special teams and the Super Bowl participants are at the bottom of the league, it might indicate it's not where you'd want to utilize resources in order to change your fortunes.

I agree with that--I don't want the Pats drafting gunners in the second round-- but getting back to the original discussion the behavior of good teams (bengals eagles chiefs) all suggest that you do want to utilize four roster spots on people who are just going to be core special teamers. Which is what I said in the first place.

 

[mcpickl]

Between JuJu's injury history, Devante's injury history, Thornton's frame, and Bourne's tendency to go into the dog house, depth at WR seems pretty important. I can see multiple scenarios where the sixth receiver becomes the fourth or third option. I'd rather have the upside of Boutte than rely on a street free agent in the middle of the season, never mind long-term upside.

Depth is important at every position, just not as important as guys who will actually play every game.

For a sixth receiver to play any kind of role, you'd need three of those guys you listed to be injured/dog housed at the same time.

I guess it could happen, but not worth keeping over a guy who'll actually play 20 snaps every week.

You wouldn't be relying on a street free agent in the middle of the season if injuries hit either. You'd be dipping into your practice squad, where you may even find Kayshon Boutte.

 

[Jungleland]

Depth is important at every position, just not as important as guys who will actually play every game.

For a sixth receiver to play any kind of role, you'd need three of those guys you listed to be injured/dog housed at the same time.

I guess it could happen, but not worth keeping over a guy who'll actually play 20 snaps every week.

You wouldn't be relying on a street free agent in the middle of the season if injuries hit either. You'd be dipping into your practice squad, where you may even find Kayshon Boutte.

If it were a question of Tre Nixon, sure. But it's a question of a 21 year old who, for a season and a half at 18 and 19 was one of the best WRs in college football before getting hurt. It's not keeping a guy because of injury concerns with depth. It's keeping a guy because he might have a chance at rendering everyone ahead of him that depth.

It seems like his camp has been decent rather than great, so maybe they feel confident that level of potential is gone and maybe he doesn't make the team. And I don't think one needs to look much further than the 2022 Patriots to feel special teams is still important. But typical "to carry six receivers or not to carry six receivers" arguments feel kind of off mark to me here.

 

[Shelterdog]

If it were a question of Tre Nixon, sure. But it's a question of a 21 year old who, for a season and a half at 18 and 19 was one of the best WRs in college football before getting hurt. It's not keeping a guy because of injury concerns with depth. It's keeping a guy because he might have a chance at rendering everyone ahead of him that depth.

It seems like his camp has been decent rather than great, so maybe they feel confident that level of potential is gone and maybe he doesn't make the team. And I don't think one needs to look much further than the 2022 Patriots to feel special teams is still important. But typical "to carry six receivers or not to carry six receiver" arguments feel kind of off mark to me here.

So we’re clear the question is should that Pats have a third and fourth special teams coverage or should they hold on to Boutte. And the answer is that it’s a lock that like basically every other team they’re going to have four special teams coverage guys on the week 1 roster so if you want to be sure to get Boutte youll need to find another roster spot to do so.

 

[BigSoxFan]

If it were a question of Tre Nixon, sure. But it's a question of a 21 year old who, for a season and a half at 18 and 19 was one of the best WRs in college football before getting hurt. It's not keeping a guy because of injury concerns with depth. It's keeping a guy because he might have a chance at rendering everyone ahead of him that depth.

It seems like his camp has been decent rather than great, so maybe they feel confident that level of potential is gone and maybe he doesn't make the team. And I don't think one needs to look much further than the 2022 Patriots to feel special teams is still important. But typical "to carry six receivers or not to carry six receiver" arguments feel kind of off mark to me here.

Same. This isn’t about how much Kayshon plays this year, it’s about maintaining control over a potential asset at a position where we have 0 established young players.

If Boutte has starter potential, you figure out a way to keep him. If we think he profiles as a depth guy in the best of scenarios, he isn’t worth the fuss. At some point, this team needs to find a multi-year solution at WR. Maybe Douglas can be that guy, who knows. I’m not very bullish on TT being more than a decoy or low volume deep threat.

 

[mcpickl]

If it were a question of Tre Nixon, sure. But it's a question of a 21 year old who, for a season and a half at 18 and 19 was one of the best WRs in college football before getting hurt. It's not keeping a guy because of injury concerns with depth. It's keeping a guy because he might have a chance at rendering everyone ahead of him that depth.

It seems like his camp has been decent rather than great, so maybe they feel confident that level of potential is gone and maybe he doesn't make the team. And I don't think one needs to look much further than the 2022 Patriots to feel special teams is still important. But typical "to carry six receivers or not to carry six receivers" arguments feel kind of off mark to me here.

This wasn't the mark we were discussing.

I was pushing back on cutting a core special teamer(Schooler) in favor of a 6th receiver(Boutte)

It's one thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver as a future prospect over a deeper depth player at a different position. That's fine.

It's a whole other thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver over a guy who will play 20 snaps every week on special teams.

 

[Saints Rest]

This wasn't the mark we were discussing.

I was pushing back on cutting a core special teamer(Schooler) in favor of a 6th receiver(Boutte)

It's one thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver as a future prospect over a deeper depth player at a different position. That's fine.

It's a whole other thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver over a guy who will play 20 snaps every week on special teams.

I think one thing that’s sometimes lost in these end of the roster discussions is the difference between making the 53 vs making the 46.
ST guys make the 46 because someone has to play those 20 snaps.
6th WRs, 9th OLinemen, 5th safety, — those guys make the 53 but not the 46, unless/until there are injuries.

 

[GPO Man]

Boutte has to stick on the 53. Like someone else mentioned, he’s the only Patriots WR that has a chance to be a true #1. Zero chance he makes it to the practice squad. My guess is someone will get a phantom injury and be placed on IR to allow Boutte to make the roster.

 

[tims4wins]

Boutte has to stick on the 53. Like someone else mentioned, he’s the only Patriots WR that has a chance to be a true #1. Zero chance he makes it to the practice squad. My guess is someone will get a phantom injury and be placed on IR to allow Boutte to make the roster.

Why is there zero chance he makes it to the practice squad? It’s not like he has shown anything this summer. And it’s not like he was drafted in the 3rd round. Every team passed on him 5+ times.

 

[lexrageorge]

Why is there zero chance he makes it to the practice squad? It’s not like he has shown anything this summer. And it’s not like he was drafted in the 3rd round. Every team passed on him 5+ times.

He's shown he's healthy (a big question mark on draft day) and that he still has the potential to be a wide receiver in the NFL. I wouldn't say "zero chance" of Boutte's making it to the practice squad; other teams will have their own roster crunches as well. But it's not always easy to figure out who will get to the PS without getting claimed, and given the overall dearth of top end receiver talent on New England's roster, it may be a better play to avoid exposing him to waivers in the first place.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Why is there zero chance he makes it to the practice squad? It’s not like he has shown anything this summer. And it’s not like he was drafted in the 3rd round. Every team passed on him 5+ times.

Yeah, I don’t they the argument that he has a “chance to be a #1”. Is it really true, how is it determined, and what is the likelihood of it actually happening?

 

[rodderick]

I think a whole lot of teams passed on Boutte due to concerns over his character/maturity and those won't be alleviated in just three weeks of training camp.

 

[BaseballJones]

I think a whole lot of teams passed on Boutte due to concerns over his character/maturity and those won't be alleviated in just three weeks of training camp.

That's true. But all you need is one other team that likes him and you lose him. This will be an interesting situation.

 

[lexrageorge]

I think a whole lot of teams passed on Boutte due to concerns over his character/maturity and those won't be alleviated in just three weeks of training camp.

A lot of those "character/maturity" issues may be way overblown. He was coming back from a serious ankle injury which required multiple surgeries, and he supposedly clashed with a new and inexperienced coaching staff at LSU his final year. And he had a disappointing combine workout.

 

[BaseballJones]

QB (3) M.Jones, M.Cunningham, B.Zappe
RB (4) R.Stevenson, E.Elliott, P.Strong, K.Harris
WR (7) D.Parker, J.SmithSchuster, K.Bourne, M.Slater, K.Boutte, P.Douglas, T.Thornton
TE (3) H.Henry, M.Sokol, M.Gesicki
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, A.Mafi
T (4) Tre.Brown, R.Reiff, S.Sow, C.Anderson
DE (2) D.Wise, K.White
DT (4) C.Barmore, D.Godchaux, L.Guy, C.Davis
ILB(3) M.Mapu, M.Wilson, J.Bentley
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (6) C.Gonzalez, Jon.Jones, Ma.Jones, Ja.Jones, I.Bolden, M.Bryant
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (3) J.Peppers, J.Mills, B.Schooler
ST (3) C.Ryland, B.Baringer, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: http://patsfans.com/patspicker

Having Flowers on IR helps. Going with Cunningham and six WRs (Slater obviously is just a ST guy but you have to put him in at WR). Same with Schooler at S.

There's going to be some interesting and difficult decisions to be made. And there's going to be some good talent left off this roster. And of course there may be surprises and injuries from now til cut day.

 

[Shelterdog]

A lot of those "character/maturity" issues may be way overblown. He was coming back from a serious ankle injury which required multiple surgeries, and he supposedly clashed with a new and inexperienced coaching staff at LSU his final year. And he had a disappointing combine workout.

A bigger problem than not getting along with the coaching staff was apparently getting along too well with recruiting staff.

It's great that he's doing better but I don't think we've yet seen the kind of explosiveness that he showed in high school, in high school track, and early in his college career. Maybe that comes back maybe it doesn't but he's not a threat to be a number one receiver until it does return.

 

[mcpickl]

I think one thing that’s sometimes lost in these end of the roster discussions is the difference between making the 53 vs making the 46.
ST guys make the 46 because someone has to play those 20 snaps.
6th WRs, 9th OLinemen, 5th safety, — those guys make the 53 but not the 46, unless/until there are injuries.

Absolutely.

With Felger banging away on the ST topic for a decade, his theory seems to be if you didn't waste resources keeping the Schooler types on the roster you could have a really good defensive end instead. Where in reality, you'd just be keeping a borderline roster guy like a Sam Roberts. He'd be inactive every week while the rotation players who made the 46 that week would now have to soak up the 20 snaps that Schooler would play. In most cases, you'd just be keeping a guy on your 53 man roster who likely would've ended up on your practice squad anyway, and still be available as depth.

He's shown he's healthy (a big question mark on draft day) and that he still has the potential to be a wide receiver in the NFL. I wouldn't say "zero chance" of Boutte's making it to the practice squad; other teams will have their own roster crunches as well. But it's not always easy to figure out who will get to the PS without getting claimed, and given the overall dearth of top end receiver talent on New England's roster, it may be a better play to avoid exposing him to waivers in the first place.

I don't think the big question mark on draft day for Boutte is would he show he's healthy enough to play.

I think it was more, would he show he's recovered the explosiveness he had pre-injury.

I haven't seen enough of him myself, but I haven't heard much from the people covering the team that he has. Most reports on him seem to be that he's shown great hands and made some tough catches, not so much about his speed/quickness.

edit: didn't read down far enough. Shelterdog said pretty much the same thing. Agree with him.

 

[Justthetippett]

A bigger problem than not getting along with the coaching staff was apparently getting along too well with recruiting staff.

It's great that he's doing better but I don't think we've yet seen the kind of explosiveness that he showed in high school, in high school track, and early in his college career. Maybe that comes back maybe it doesn't but he's not a threat to be a number one receiver until it does return.

Where you see problems, Mr. Boutte sees opportunities.

I think if he doesn't put some explosiveness on tape during this preseason, then he's absolutely a candidate to get through to the practice squad, particularly as a rookie. If he's showing that in practice but not games yet, all the better in terms of keeping him and developing him throughout the year.

 

[mcpickl]

QB (3) M.Jones, M.Cunningham, B.Zappe
RB (4) R.Stevenson, E.Elliott, P.Strong, K.Harris
WR (7) D.Parker, J.SmithSchuster, K.Bourne, M.Slater, K.Boutte, P.Douglas, T.Thornton
TE (3) H.Henry, M.Sokol, M.Gesicki
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, A.Mafi
T (4) Tre.Brown, R.Reiff, S.Sow, C.Anderson
DE (2) D.Wise, K.White
DT (4) C.Barmore, D.Godchaux, L.Guy, C.Davis
ILB(3) M.Mapu, M.Wilson, J.Bentley
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (6) C.Gonzalez, Jon.Jones, Ma.Jones, Ja.Jones, I.Bolden, M.Bryant
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (3) J.Peppers, J.Mills, B.Schooler
ST (3) C.Ryland, B.Baringer, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: http://patsfans.com/patspicker

Having Flowers on IR helps. Going with Cunningham and six WRs (Slater obviously is just a ST guy but you have to put him in at WR). Same with Schooler at S.

There's going to be some interesting and difficult decisions to be made. And there's going to be some good talent left off this roster. And of course there may be surprises and injuries from now til cut day.

You'd probably have to find a spot for Chris Board on this roster.

He's making the team

I had trouble getting to 53. I usually have 55 guys I think are keepers, this year I've so far only gotten to 50.

Even with Zeke on board, I only see 3 RB keepers. Even though they're obviously going to keep more, I only got to 4 CBs. Also only have two TEs, but they'll obviously keep more. Also think there are 11 OL they could keep. They won't keep that many, but I'd guess injuries(or injuries?) will work that out.

 

[Jungleland]

This wasn't the mark we were discussing.

I was pushing back on cutting a core special teamer(Schooler) in favor of a 6th receiver(Boutte)

It's one thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver as a future prospect over a deeper depth player at a different position. That's fine.

It's a whole other thing to say I think they should keep a 6th receiver over a guy who will play 20 snaps every week on special teams.

We are in agreement there, apologies if my quoting of your message mischaracterized your take. I'm not as familiar with the roster depth as I would like to be at this point of the summer, but I feel confident that if Boutte makes the team, it won't be at the expense of Schooler.

 

[Saints Rest]

We are in agreement there, apologies if my quoting of your message mischaracterized your take. I'm not as familiar with the roster depth as I would like to be at this point of the summer, but I feel confident that if Boutte makes the team, it won't be at the expense of Schooler.

I agree. Boutte is in competition not just with Douglas, Nixon, Thornton, et al at WR -- a competition where he is fighting to be 5th WR and likely losing to Douglas and Thornton, -- but he's also in completion with Strong, Edwards, Russey, Murray, Richards, etc for the 52nd and 53rd spots as guys who you fear exposing to waivers.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

QB (3) M.Jones, M.Cunningham, B.Zappe
RB (4) R.Stevenson, E.Elliott, P.Strong, K.Harris
WR (7) D.Parker, J.SmithSchuster, K.Bourne, M.Slater, K.Boutte, P.Douglas, T.Thornton
TE (3) H.Henry, M.Sokol, M.Gesicki
C (2) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, A.Mafi
T (4) Tre.Brown, R.Reiff, S.Sow, C.Anderson
DE (2) D.Wise, K.White
DT (4) C.Barmore, D.Godchaux, L.Guy, C.Davis
ILB(3) M.Mapu, M.Wilson, J.Bentley
OLB(3) M.Judon, A.Jennings, J.Uche
CB (6) C.Gonzalez, Jon.Jones, Ma.Jones, Ja.Jones, I.Bolden, M.Bryant
SS (3) K.Dugger, A.Phillips, J.Bledsoe
FS (3) J.Peppers, J.Mills, B.Schooler
ST (3) C.Ryland, B.Baringer, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: http://patsfans.com/patspicker

Having Flowers on IR helps. Going with Cunningham and six WRs (Slater obviously is just a ST guy but you have to put him in at WR). Same with Schooler at S.

There's going to be some interesting and difficult decisions to be made. And there's going to be some good talent left off this roster. And of course there may be surprises and injuries from now til cut day.

You missed Jake Andrews.

 

[Zedia]

QB (3) M.Jones, B.Zappe, M.Cunningham
RB (4) R.Stevenson, E.Elliott, K.Harris, P.Strong
WR (7) D.Parker, J.SmithSchuster, K.Bourne, T.Thornton, P.Douglas, M.Slater, K.Boutte
TE (2) H.Henry, M.Gesicki
C (3) D.Andrews, J.Ferentz, J.Andrews
G (3) M.Onwenu, C.Strange, A.Mafi
T (4) Tre.Brown, R.Reiff, S.Sow, C.McDermott
DE (2) D.Wise, K.White
DT (4) C.Barmore, D.Godchaux, L.Guy, C.Davis
ILB(5) J.Bentley, J.Tavai, M.Mapu, M.Wilson, C.Board
OLB(3) M.Judon, J.Uche, A.Jennings
CB (5) C.Gonzalez, Jon.Jones, Ma.Jones, Ja.Jones, I.Bolden
SS (2) K.Dugger, A.Phillips
FS (3) J.Peppers, J.Mills, B.Schooler
ST (3) C.Ryland, B.Baringer, J.Cardona

Left Sokol off, left Russey off figuring they're not going anywhere.

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: http://patsfans.com/patspicker

 

[brendan f]

1.0 (First Go)
QB (3) Jones, Zappe, Cunningham
RB (3) Stevenson, Zeke, Strong
WR (5) Smith-Schuster, Parker, Bourne, Thornton, Douglas
TE: (3) Henry, Gesicki, Firkser
OL: (8) D Andrews, Brown, Strange, Onwenu, Mafi, Sow, Hines, Reiff
DL (7): Barmore, White, Wise, Davis, Godchaux, Ekuale, Guy
Edge (4): Judon, Uche, Tavai, Jennings
LB: (4)Bentley, Mapu, Wilson, Board
CB: (5) Gonzalez, Ja Jones, M Jones, Jo Jones, Wade
Safety: (5) Dugger, Phillips, Peppers, Mills, Bledsoe
Specialists: (6) Ryland, Baringer, Cardona, Slater, Schooler, Speed
PUP/IR/Whatever: Cody Davis, Ty Montgomery, Calvin Anderson, Trey Flowers, Jake Andrews, Kody Russey, Kevin Harris (redundant with Zeke)