Offseason rumors
- Thread starter opes
- Start date
- Status
I think assembling a collection of bats is more important than trying to upgrade the backup corner IF defense over what Turner provided. Half of fangraph's current projected roster couldn't even muster a .700 OPS last year; there are a ton of unknowns and if things break poorly the season could truly be a disaster.
To be fair, he was also pretty adamant (from I believe the same article) about doing a heck of a lot more to the rotation than has been done (which has netted to one SP added and one removed).
"Nevertheless, Breslow was resolute in his desire to add pitching. 'We’re going to be as aggressive as we can possibly be to fill the rotation,' he said."
"We’re similarly focused on starting pitching and recognize that while there is a need to add a right-handed bat, that’s probably going to be a secondary focus once we can make some more progress on the starting pitching front.”
"On the trade front, Breslow was relatively forthright when discussing the potential need to trade top prospects for pitching. 'We need to be willing to give up position player capital in order to get starting pitching, and controllable starting pitching, because it takes time for that pipeline to develop internally,” he said. “And we have to deal with the resources that we currently have and we have a really exciting group of position players, and we need to figure out ways to balance that out.'"
So I don't know that as we sit here about to start February that what someone said starting December is necessarily still the case.
https://theathletic.com/5112718/2023/12/04/red-sox-trades-prospects-pitching/
I just wanted to come back to this now that I have a minute and acknowledge the fact that you took the time to respond. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of Sanchez, but in my world I can only see it happening in one of two ways. First scenario, he's the primary catcher and occasional DH, as in occasionally he DHs as a semi day off. In this scenario he's one of two catchers on the 26 man roster. Second scenario, he's the primary DH and emergency catcher. It's the only way I can justify this team carrying 3 guys on the 26 man roster who's primary position is catcher. In this scenario Yoshida is the primary LF. In any other scenario you're likely to have two catchers as part of your bench on days that Sanchez is behind the plate and IMO that isn't in the team's best interest.
Well I suppose if you're going to spell questionable defenders with bad defenders ...
I guess Turner was the backbreaker for Simmons.
View: https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/1752429502955729159?s=46
View: https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/1752429502955729159?s=46
Ha! I respect his NBA insights and football... I guess he knows more than me. But he doesn't know shit about baseball anymore. His Sox content is pretty cringy.
Definitely; but he might not be wrong here. Selling is one of the few logical explanations for this disaster of an offseason.
I doubt that they’re selling any time soon but where is he wrong? This team is not very good and it doesn’t appear that it’s going to get much better.
No sweat, I have it on the highest authority we can expect at least average defense at each position.
Apparently Cora should have started spring training playing pepper in front of the monster years ago.
I don't think they plan to sell. I think the ownership is prepared to take their medicine for a season or two, and hope they can get another run going. And, it might work.
The scenario where it will get really ugly is the one where the Red Sox get off to a bad start on the west coast and things go down hill from there. I would have liked to see Turner come back as I think he is the kind of player that provides a steady perspective for the younger players. If everything goes right, this team should be able to compete at least for a while. But, this roster also seems like one where the bottom could really fall out quick if things get off to a rough start. Still some time to go before we know what the final roster will be.
They wouldn’t be developing all of that real estate around the ballpark if they were planning to sell.
If you wanted to try to sell me on the construction money coming out of the player payroll budget I might listen, I think it’s unlikely that’s what this is, but I would think it’s at least feasible.
But they’re not selling the team IMO. I think the “compete while rebuilding” approach didn’t work with Bloom, so now they’re trying the “tear it down rebuild” with Breslow, which has the side benefit of keeping the dividend money rolling in for Redbird and the other partners until they get in a position to compete again. People will still go to the games. Fenway is a destination for tourists or locals that fe like sitting outside and drinking beer in the summer. NESN ratings will suck but that’s a losing business model right now anyway.
They want to be the Astros or Braves. Problem is you’re just as likely to be one of the other 10 teams trying to bottom out and you spin your wheels for the next 5 years.
They are also the massive front runner for the Las Vegas NBA franchise; which will take some serious coin.
"Tear it down & rebuild?" I'm not quite seeing that yet, but I guess Raffy is pretty untradeable right now.
It will take the type of serious coin that they’re not going to get by shaving the Red Sox payroll by $20/$25 million per year. That will require some additional investment.
They have to pay somebody. And Devers is still young enough that he can still be good if it all works out in a few years.
You don't need to convince me, I have thought all along that adding 2 SP would make them a playoff team.
I was saying he generally does not have a good handle on baseball, he's really just a fan, and while he is entitled to his opinions, if I had that platform I'd either do more with it or stay away from stuff where my expertise has waned. I started skipping over his baseball content years ago when he began complaining about "math ruining the game". As to this tweet, I mean, I guess that can be one's opinion even though they are at what, $198m this season (Fangraphs)? I guess Justin Turner was the key to it all? His NBA coverage is pretty sharp on a daily basis. His baseball content is a million miles from that.
Are there experts who think the Sox are having a solid offseason and looking like contenders?
I don’t think that they’re selling the team because of the real estate development either which is why I prefaced what I said with “I don’t think he’s right about FSG selling the team.”
I don’t even think that they’re in tear-down-and-build mode. I think John Henry came to the conclusion that it doesn’t pay to invest heavily in player contracts (especially free agents) any more. I think he looked around at the Tampas and Minnesotas and other mid market teams who make the postseason and thought “the playoffs are a crap shoot, so why bother when the best team doesn’t win?”
There’s not really an incentive to put together a wagon because maybe, at best, you miss the first round. But that can also bite you in the ass as it did the Dodgers and Os this year. Get hot with a good, not great team and see where it takes you.
I don’t think that Henry liked his ROI on pitchers, so he’s not going to give out big time contracts anymore. And while I want him to continue to do so, I see his perspective too. If I kept buying Toyotas and they kept shitting out on me, I probably wouldn’t buy a Toyota.
It’s been five years, unless he’s visited by the ghost of Marvin Miller, I don’t think he’s going to spend on big time free agents again—unless they come at a massive discount.
But his overall point is that this Red Sox offseason is somehow worse than last years. Do you agree or disagree with that?
I’m not sure have to be Peter Gammons to come to that conclusion.
Yes of course, that’s in line with what I was thinking. I like a mess upgrade over one of the catchers with the other being traded, period. Or I like him as a primary DH who can be a catcher when one of the others gets hurt. The latter scenario seems unlikely now that he’s got value as a defensive catcher, but his market has been weird now two winters in a row.
I think the majority of experts have said that the offseason has been excruciatingly slow to develop, mostly.
Relative to that, it’s too soon to say how they’re doing. Relative to the calendar, which is the casual fan’s yardstick, it’s been fairly underwhelming.
Is it actually worse, or just not the pivot to better that most were expecting?
I don't agree that there's an obvious answer just yet. By "worse" you probably mean that they did less to increase the talent level on the team -- than last year? or than we expected? -- but I only care if they win games, and offseason roster additions are just one factor. I've said several times, if they are holding on to payroll space so they can make a play for Cease or another starter during the season, that could be a far better outcome than signing Blake Snell. I have no idea if they actually want to sell the team but he doesn't either. If this were the [insert NBA team that may be for sale], he would probably have real insight.
Quite honestly, I'm not sure. But I think it's OK to say that I would prefer a good defender to an option that has been presented as "not a good fielder' when defense was a huge issue last season.
Angelos is selling.
Sign Montgomery, Ryu (1 year), and Soler now. Make the playoffs while setting the team up for 2025.
Sign Montgomery, Ryu (1 year), and Soler now. Make the playoffs while setting the team up for 2025.
The future of the AL East for the next few years could be determined by how Baltimore moves forward this offseason after this sale.
Tampa is limping along. Toronto is tepid. NYY is depending on Rodon and Cortes along with Rizzo and Stanton. Time to strike while the iron is hot!
Just a reminder that the Braves lost in the Division round this year. Extending all your young guys doesn't guarantee anything more than playoff relevance.
Playoff relevance is basically all that any rational person can hope for. I'd kill dolphins to watch this team in the playoffs again, and I think they are closer than most here do.
But I also agree that this offseason has not been spectacular.
Eh, if you got any good at dolphin murdering John Henry would just make Breslow trade you before you hit free agency.
This feels likely but I still don't understand the logic. Three out of our last four championships came from great teams, no? It seems like the better the product on the field, the better our chances. Isn't having an above average pitching staff better than not having an above average pitching staff? And doesn't that cost money if we don't want to wait 5 years?
If there are any Athletic subscribers here, Jen McCaffrey has a Red Sox fan survey on the state of the team going right now, has to be submitted by midnight Wednesday ET.
https://theathletic.com/5230440/2024/01/29/red-sox-fan-survey-2024/
https://theathletic.com/5230440/2024/01/29/red-sox-fan-survey-2024/
When do you think you can give your answer? We’re two weeks away from pitchers and catchers, what are you waiting on?
When I said worse than last year, yes they did less this offseason than last offseason to make the team better. And I didn’t think that they did a great job last offseason considering they lost their best offensive player and the guy who was supposed to replace him was injured so severely that he didn’t play until the penultimate month of the season—and he was a shell of himself offensively.
The offseason is when the bulk of the roster building occurs. It’s really rare for a team to completely rebuild their roster and make the postseason. And if the Sox aren’t doing well, why would they trade for Cease? Again, a basement dwelling team normally doesn’t make a trade like that during the season.
Again, his thoughts on FSG selling is moot. It’s probably not happening, but his thoughts on this being a shit off-season are spot on. I'm not sure how you can argue that, unless you’re the world’s biggest Lucas Giolito fan.
Yes to all of your questions. I agree with you 100%. The 2004, 07 and 18 teams were built around primo free agents, great trade acquisitions and the farm system. The 2013 was cobbled together of two and three-year contracts and went on a crazy run.
I’m not sure why Henry wouldn’t want to keep winning, it seems fun to me. He’s at every game and watching a team that wins is far more enjoyable than a crap team. He has the money, it’s illogical to me why he would curb his enjoyment by not spending it.
But Henry hasn’t said boo in years. I have no idea what he’s thinking and can only read the tea leaves. Sometimes we’re wrong but it would be nice if he explained his view of the club and how it’s being run.
I believe Bradford Doolittle had an article that said that the Sox would be a breakout team next year but that didn’t really have anything to do with the offseason.
Other than that, no. The Sox have basically been a punching bag for everyone else. Rosenthal has called them out multiple times (including his “dork of the week” after the Yamamoto signing).
And let’s be honest, there’s really not much to be optimistic about.
Really? The 2023 Red Sox were the second worst defensive team of the statcast era. Since the season concluded they traded their best defensive player from last year and acquired a second baseman who is questionable in the field. Unless I’m missing something, the team’s only acquisition that could potentially be seen as a plus for the defense (O’Neil) has only had as many as 500 plate appearances once in his 6 year career (Verdugo had 600 last year), so it’s unlikely that his acquisition even makes up for the loss of Dugie.
I think you could make the argument that the biggest thing they have done to improve the defense just happened - when they let Turner sign elsewhere. And that’s not because Turner isn’t a good 3b or 1b anymore, it’s because if they signed him he’d get the majority of his ABs at DH and that means the team’s collection of subpar fielders would have gotten lot time in the field. Assuming they don’t sign a different dedicated DH that’s an upgrade.
Last edited:
View: https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/1752626961900298639?s=46
It’s a throw away line in a tweet but Gammons very casually mentions Musgrove here. Who is someone I’ve been coming back to for months a a target.
No idea what he’s even saying here. But hey, a rumor.
Musgrove is from SD with a full no trade. So he’d have to be compensated to do something there.
It’s a throw away line in a tweet but Gammons very casually mentions Musgrove here. Who is someone I’ve been coming back to for months a a target.
No idea what he’s even saying here. But hey, a rumor.
Musgrove is from SD with a full no trade. So he’d have to be compensated to do something there.
Last edited:
View: https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/1752621775593075029?s=46
We didn’t even engage with Turner….
We didn’t even engage with Turner….
That's fine if there's another shoe to drop. Tough to be positive about that at this point.
Last edited:
Man oh man. I'm afraid Werner isn't the only one who made statements that haven't aged well.
The Orioles news makes me somewhat less skeptical about the idea they're on the verge of selling the team. If the O's and Camden can get 1.7, imagine what the Sox + Fenway + goosed up real estate can fetch. On the other hand, if a sale is in the offing, then it's not clear why they'd need to be tight-fisted about cash to fund the real estate development (as McCaffrey speculated about recently)--surely lenders would be happy to support the real estate development in advance of a sale. The more I think about it, the more the NBA Vegas team seems like a reasonable explanation. That will be an enormously expensive purchase, and while JH and co are rich, they aren't Steve Ballmer rich (Henry isn't even Matt Ishiba rich). They'll need lots of cash.
- Status