I imagine that if the player wants an opt out after a few years, someone will certainly be willing to give it to him. If there are as many bidders as rumored to be, than the player can make more demands. I suspect it could depend on the team; he may not require an opt out if he signs with the Dodgers or Yankees but think he’d be more likely to want one from the Blue Jays or Mariners (although a NTC could suffice).
I don’t think the “six years service time” is really relevant to this situation, which is pretty unique. I’d be looking for 12 years guaranteed with an opt out after 3. Someone will blink.
Yeah, I think Ohtani's situation with the Angels was different because he a) wasn't 25 and b) didn't have six seasons in Japan. If he had waited two years to be posted he wouldn't have been subject to the international bonus pool and would have been able to sign a larger contract. I am not sure that all Japanese players are under team control for 6 years.
Kodai Senga signed a 5 year deal last year, for example, and Seiya Suzuki also signed for 5 years.
This article talks a bit about the difference between Suzuki's posting and Ohtani signing with the Angels.
Believe so. His stats are also much better across the board. Crazy thing is Roki might be even better. This is why I’m not concerned about the conversion. Japan is pumping out some serious talent now.
Believe so. His stats are also much better across the board. Crazy thing is Roki might be even better. This is why I’m not concerned about the conversion. Japan is pumping out some serious talent now.
Yeah, the continued idea that no good pitchers this age will ever be available seems exaggerated. The Sox themselves have a long history of acquiring marquee pitchers around this age (Pedro, Beckett, Matsuzaka). If they miss out here, they can still build a good team for next year. I don’t think they can go into any offseason with a “or bust” mentality for any individual player. There’s lots of ways to skin a cat.
Seeing as to how the Red Sox signed not only Pedro's brother but also his buddy and that worked out pretty well...
@JM3 - I'm just randomly curious - what do you think it would take to acquire Burnes from the prospects the Sox have, and as a Boras client, what do you think he'd need to be offered to sign an extension. I for one would certainly be interested in the pitcher, but I'd also tell the Brewers that the prospects they got back were dependent on them granting a window to discuss said extension and getting one worked out (which I think it'd be 7/$175m - or a little more than Nola signed for on the open market - which I'd be more than fine with).
For an extended Burnes the only prospects I'd balk on would be Anthony and Teel. Obviously for one year of him with a window and extension, the acquisition cost I'd be willing to pay would be down substantially.
I have Mayer as the Red Sox #1 prospect still, so to me he's not more on the table than Anthony or Teel. Baseball America in their rankings released today has it Mayer/Anthony/Teel (so do I). SoxProspects has it Anthony/Mayer/Teel. I think people forget that Mayer had a .996 OPS in Greenville before he injured his shoulder.
If you sign Burnes to a long term extension, it's going to be at or above market value, which means there really is not a lot of surplus value, if any, in the extension, unless you believe you're buying low on Burnes as his performance last year lagged behind his underlying #s.
MLTR projects Burnes' arb salary at $15.1m, so there should be a good amount of surplus value over that # which is really what you're buying of value. BTV lists his value as 33.8, which means he would need to have a $48.9m season for that to be accurate. According to Fangraphs, he hasn't been worth that much since '21, but taking the average of the last 3 years, including that huge year ($59.7m), his value has been $41.3m, which I think is a fine estimate, so I would put his surplus value at around $28m. You're probably going to have to offer something with more value than that due to it being a competitive market, but I wouldn't be excited about a huge valuation on 1 cheaper year of labor & one extension at market rate+.
From a BTV perspective, Jarren Duran is worth more than Burnes (34 to 33.8) & that would be a trade I would be happy to make, even if it's 5 years of control for 1 year of control. BTV has Mayer (44.5) & Anthony (41.8) as being significantly more valuable than Burnes (even though I think Burnes' # is high), but has Teel at 17.8 & Rafaela at 13.3. BTV values most prospects so lightly that I would never trade them at their values.
Side track on how poorly BTV values prospects in Spoiler cuz pointless:
For example, to get 1 year of Burnes, BTV says it would be fair to trade (using my rankings):
#3 Teel (17.8)
#5 Rafaela (13.3)
#7 Yordanny (2.1)
Total 34.2 (Burnes 33.8)
But bottom line, the Brewers need solid MLB type players who cost them like nothing because they are cheap. Something involving Duran & maybe like Hickey, Mata & a couple other guys makes sense to me. Or one built around Abreu & Yorke. Throw in Dalbec types if they want them, or other low ceiling MLB adjacent players like Walter & Hamilton (if they want him back).
Yeah, the continued idea that no good pitchers this age will ever be available seems exaggerated. The Sox themselves have a long history of acquiring marquee pitchers around this age (Pedro, Beckett, Matsuzaka). If they miss out here, they can still build a good team for next year. I don’t think they can go into any offseason with a “or bust” mentality for any individual player. There’s lots of ways to skin a cat.
There really aren’t many ways to find top of the rotation SP talent though. Yamamoto is basically it in FA. You can make trades but you’re going to part with prized prospects. We don’t have any knocking on the door. That is why I think Yamamoto is a must. The picture gets far murkier without him in the fold. Breslow is smart and he has assets and spending capacity to play with but there isn’t a huge supply here.
There really aren’t many ways to find top of the rotation SP talent though. Yamamoto is basically it in FA. You can make trades but you’re going to part with prized prospects. We don’t have any knocking on the door. That is why I think Yamamoto is a must. The picture gets far murkier without him in the fold. Breslow is smart and he has assets and spending capacity to play with but there isn’t a huge supply here.
Maybe there aren’t that many ways to find pitchers who are already considered top of the rotation talent- but the top 25 pitchers by fWAR this past year included Zach Eflin, Justin Steele, Logan Webb, Pablo Lopez, Jordan Montgomery, Kyle Bradish, Jesus Luzardo, Cesar, Burnes, Senga, and Merrill Kelly. These guys were acquired in all kinds of ways- then you’ve got others like Wheeler, Senga, Gausman, Verlander etc who were free agents.
I guarantee there are multiple pitchers available right now for reasonable amounts who will be really good next year; just a matter of figuring who.
Jon Heyman reports that the Red Sox continue to be linked with Shohei Ohtani and that they could get involved in the Juan Soto sweepstakes since they’re a good fit.
Maybe there aren’t that many ways to find pitchers who are already considered top of the rotation talent- but the top 25 pitchers by fWAR this past year included Zach Eflin, Justin Steele, Logan Webb, Pablo Lopez, Jordan Montgomery, Kyle Bradish, Jesus Luzardo, Cesar, Burnes, Senga, and Merrill Kelly. These guys were acquired in all kinds of ways- then you’ve got others like Wheeler, Senga, Gausman, Verlander etc who were free agents.
I guarantee there are multiple pitchers available right now for reasonable amounts who will be really good next year; just a matter of figuring who.
Considering the fact that from that list Steele, Webb & Gausman are all Breslow/Bailey adjacent, I'm inclined to trust whatever path they go with on pitching, at least for a year or two. & not substitute my judgment or the judgment of mass-hysteria over theirs.
Jon Heyman reports that the Red Sox continue to be linked with Shohei Ohtani and that they could get involved in the Juan Soto sweepstakes since they’re a good fit.
Jon Heyman reports that the Red Sox continue to be linked with Shohei Ohtani and that they could get involved in the Juan Soto sweepstakes since they’re a good fit.
How are we a good fit for Soto? Great hitter but below average defender (and we already have one of those in the outfield). Plus the Padres are going to ask for a ton back to replenish some of what they sent to Washington, and then we have to sign Soto -- a Boras client -- to an extension. Also, Soto is left handed, which we have too many of currently and more coming from the minors.
How are we a good fit for Soto? Great hitter but below average defender (and we already have one of those in the outfield). Plus the Padres are going to ask for a ton back to replenish some of what they sent to Washington, and then we have to sign Soto -- a Boras client -- to an extension. Also, Soto is left handed, which we have too many of currently and more coming from the minors.
If you can get Juan Soto for a justified price, then you get him and subsequently make other adjustments to the line up to address redundancies, cuz Soto would instantly be your best hitter.
If they sign Yamamoto, I don’t expect them to sign another big FA SP. If they don’t sign Yamamoto, I’m fearful of a couple Story like contracts for guys who may be good but who don’t have the upside we need.
That's going to be interesting to see. Because it that's the direction they go, they could have just kept Bloom. I'll be really surprised if Breslow doesn't make a splash, pretty much with a mandate from ownership.
I don't think it's the GMs/VPs who are influenced by these reports at all, it's more the fans who are theoretically supposed to get whipped up, grab their figurative torches and pitchforks, and force the baseball ops people to sign anyone. The thing is, signing Ohtani or any primo free agent is like winning the World Series; only one team can do it. Unlike the World Series, your team can get the "next best thing" (which might not be that close, but sure seems it) and if fans can pressure a team into signing Blake Snell as a consolation prize. Which, well, that's good for Snell and Boras (but probably bad for the team that signs them and their fans).
It's media manipulations 101 and Boras is pretty good at it.
How are we a good fit for Soto? Great hitter but below average defender (and we already have one of those in the outfield). Plus the Padres are going to ask for a ton back to replenish some of what they sent to Washington, and then we have to sign Soto -- a Boras client -- to an extension. Also, Soto is left handed, which we have too many of currently and more coming from the minors.
Who is the great hitter but below average defender we already have in the outfield? Yoshida? I really like Yoshida but he's a good not great hitter. At least in comparison to Soto (.946 OPS and 157 OPS+ for his career!!). As others have said, if they can snag Soto for a reasonable price, they should do it and sort things out after the fact. That said, I doubt it will happen.
My hopes are sky high! We are going to give Ohtani the biggest contract in sports history and trade pitching for one year of Soto so we can put out the "Story of 8 lefthanded DHs" lineup:
Story, SS
Soto, RF
Casas, IB
Ohtani, DH
Devers, 3B
Yoshida, LF
Valdez, 2B
Duran, CF
McGuire, C
Most of the fans will be ecstatic, since we will be spending big money for big name players.
And the games will be very entertaining, with an average final score of 11-10. NESN ratings will go way up, and so will revenue, with the added money from extra commercials due to 15 pitching changes per game.
Records of all kinds will be broken!
My hopes are sky high! We are going to give Ohtani the biggest contract in sports history and trade pitching for one year of Soto so we can put out the "Story of 8 lefthanded DHs" lineup:
Story, SS
Soto, RF
Casas, IB
Ohtani, DH
Devers, 3B
Yoshida, LF
Valdez, 2B
Duran, CF
McGuire, C
Most of the fans will be ecstatic, since we will be spending big money for big name players.
And the games will be very entertaining, with an average final score of 11-10. NESN ratings will go way up, and so will revenue, with the added money from extra commercials due to 15 pitching changes per game.
Records of all kinds will be broken!
Of course I would.
I said my hopes are sky high that the Red Sox will be bringing in both of them. Everyone is going to be excited when we win this offseason by bringing them both in.
It's simple, if they don't add these guys, then the entire offseason is a failure.
I certainly agree that any extension would be at market value. I think the "benefit", so to speak, would be 1) doing it this year and 2) being the only team able to negotiate with him (Boras). Which is why, at least for me, I'd have no qualms giving them Mayer for an extended Burnes. But there is also no way I'd move Mayer (or even Duran) for 1 year of Burnes - at least not with where the Sox are presently.
There are plenty of reasons the Sox aren't getting Ohtani nor Soto, but their being LHH should have absolutely nothing to do with why someone doesn't want them.
Ohtani has a career .831OPS vs LHPs and Soto's is .836. Using last year's offense, and simply looking against what they are against same handed pitching ONLY would have made them the 3rd and 4th best offensive players on the team overall. Not bothering to factor in the stupid .964 Ohtani hits against RHP or the 1.000 OPS Soto has against them. I know there is more that goes into it than career stats and last year's team, but my overall point is that they both hit LHPs extremely well, so there should be no concerns about their handedness.
Justin Turner (our DH last year and a RHH) has an .826 career OPS against LHPs, Adam Duvall (also a RHH) is .770.
Now, the fact that - in 2024 at least - neither is a top of the rotation SP is a different argument altogether and a major reason why I don't believe the Sox can afford to spend massive assets on either player, as much as I'd objectively like them on the Red Sox.
I certainly agree that any extension would be at market value. I think the "benefit", so to speak, would be 1) doing it this year and 2) being the only team able to negotiate with him (Boras). Which is why, at least for me, I'd have no qualms giving them Mayer for an extended Burnes. But there is also no way I'd move Mayer (or even Duran) for 1 year of Burnes - at least not with where the Sox are presently.
Let's say, hypothetically, that the cost to the Red Sox would be the same for Jordan Montgomery this off season as it would be to trade for & extend Burnes, which I don't think is accurate & I think Burnes would cost a fair amount more, especially to forego free agency. Montgomery is at least already living in Boston & his wife is already stuck there for a while. Burnes' only connection to the area that I'm aware of is that he played in the Cape Cod League in 2015.
I would much rather have Montgomery + Mayer than Burnes, even under the hypothetical where they are paid the same.
Let's say, hypothetically, that the cost to the Red Sox would be the same for Jordan Montgomery this off season as it would be to trade for & extend Burnes, which I don't think is accurate & I think Burnes would cost a fair amount more, especially to forego free agency. Montgomery is at least already living in Boston & his wife is already stuck there for a while. Burnes' only connection to the area that I'm aware of is that he played in the Cape Cod League in 2015.
I would much rather have Montgomery + Mayer than Burnes, even under the hypothetical where they are paid the same.
Agree totally and without any question. Which is why I've been saying for awhile (since after the Nola signing) that the Sox should call Boras, ask him what number it takes to get Montgomery to sign right now. Projections for Montgomery seem to be around $110m. I'm betting Texas will go up to around $125m pretty easily. Knowing what we know of Boras, I think he'd say something like 6/$165m - and I'd give it to him on the spot.
Mostly because you don't want to be playing from a position of extreme weakness with Boras (and negotiating trades with other GMs) assuming Yamamoto and Nola are off the board to teams that aren't the Boston Red Sox.
I have Mayer as the Red Sox #1 prospect still, so to me he's not more on the table than Anthony or Teel. Baseball America in their rankings released today has it Mayer/Anthony/Teel (so do I). SoxProspects has it Anthony/Mayer/Teel. I think people forget that Mayer had a .996 OPS in Greenville before he injured his shoulder.
If you sign Burnes to a long term extension, it's going to be at or above market value, which means there really is not a lot of surplus value, if any, in the extension, unless you believe you're buying low on Burnes as his performance last year lagged behind his underlying #s.
MLTR projects Burnes' arb salary at $15.1m, so there should be a good amount of surplus value over that # which is really what you're buying of value. BTV lists his value as 33.8, which means he would need to have a $48.9m season for that to be accurate. According to Fangraphs, he hasn't been worth that much since '21, but taking the average of the last 3 years, including that huge year ($59.7m), his value has been $41.3m, which I think is a fine estimate, so I would put his surplus value at around $28m. You're probably going to have to offer something with more value than that due to it being a competitive market, but I wouldn't be excited about a huge valuation on 1 cheaper year of labor & one extension at market rate+.
From a BTV perspective, Jarren Duran is worth more than Burnes (34 to 33.8) & that would be a trade I would be happy to make, even if it's 5 years of control for 1 year of control. BTV has Mayer (44.5) & Anthony (41.8) as being significantly more valuable than Burnes (even though I think Burnes' # is high), but has Teel at 17.8 & Rafaela at 13.3. BTV values most prospects so lightly that I would never trade them at their values.
Side track on how poorly BTV values prospects in Spoiler cuz pointless:
For example, to get 1 year of Burnes, BTV says it would be fair to trade (using my rankings):
#3 Teel (17.8)
#5 Rafaela (13.3)
#7 Yordanny (2.1)
Total 34.2 (Burnes 33.8)
But bottom line, the Brewers need solid MLB type players who cost them like nothing because they are cheap. Something involving Duran & maybe like Hickey, Mata & a couple other guys makes sense to me. Or one built around Abreu & Yorke. Throw in Dalbec types if they want them, or other low ceiling MLB adjacent players like Walter & Hamilton (if they want him back).
If Duran could be the biggest piece in a Burnes trade, I'd personally give him a piggyback ride to Milwaukee. But I don't want to trade our real prospects for 1 year of control of a Boras guy.
If Duran could be the biggest piece in a Burnes trade, I'd personally give him a piggyback ride to Milwaukee. But I don't want to trade our real prospects for 1 year of control of a Boras guy.
Serious question - but does anyone want real prospects (lets say any of Mayer, Anthony, Teel, Rafaela, Bleis, Yorke, Perales, Abreu or Gonzalez) moved for 1 year of ANYONE.
I don't think I've seen anyone advocate that; and as someone who thinks the Sox should cash in on some prospect capital, even I don't think that.
Multiple years of control (especially of top half of the rotation starters) or players that you only agree to deal them with the caveat of a negotiating window and extension is, I think, a totally different argument.
Well, the Sox traded assets for one year of Pedro Martinez and Josh Beckett, right? So I don’t think not doing that can be a hard and fast rule. There are only so many good SP in baseball, fewer available via trade, and if we only want players with multiple years of control, we may be really limiting ourselves.
The thing about having so many good prospects as the Sox seem to have right now, is that when they trade one, I'm going to be like...noooooo I don't want that guy gone! And yet I'll know it's probably in the best interest of the team.
Serious question - but does anyone want real prospects (lets say any of Mayer, Anthony, Teel, Rafaela, Bleis, Yorke, Perales, Abreu or Gonzalez) moved for 1 year of ANYONE.
I don't think I've seen anyone advocate that; and as someone who thinks the Sox should cash in on some prospect capital, even I don't think that.
Multiple years of control (especially of top half of the rotation starters) or players that you only agree to deal them with the caveat of a negotiating window and extension is, I think, a totally different argument.
I'd move all of the bolded for 1 year of great talent that fills a need for this team without much question other than the acquired player's willigness to play ball on an extension (I'd even do it without an extension in place). You're not getting young, cost controlled, high level starters for those guys. Those would require Teel/Mayer/Anthony.
Well, the Sox traded assets for one year of Pedro Martinez and Josh Beckett, right? So I don’t think not doing that can be a hard and fast rule. There are only so many good SP in baseball, fewer available via trade, and if we only want players with multiple years of control, we may be really limiting ourselves.
I think there's more of an appreciation for cost-controlled years now than there was when the Sox got Pedro/Beckett. Which is to say, I don't think the price for Burnes would be as high as it would have been 20 years ago. When Yu Darvish was traded in 2017, the price was one fringey top 100 guy and two other guys. So, nothing close Meyer. More like Yorke +.
Jon Heyman reports that the Red Sox continue to be linked with Shohei Ohtani and that they could get involved in the Juan Soto sweepstakes since they’re a good fit.
Now, the fact that - in 2024 at least - neither is a top of the rotation SP is a different argument altogether and a major reason why I don't believe the Sox can afford to spend massive assets on either player, as much as I'd objectively like them on the Red Sox.
Soto comes with one year of control, as much as the Padres might want to get back a prospect package in line with what they paid, the deal they're facing is the Mookie trade. If they're lucky they unload Bogaerts's deal in the process. But given the length of the deal that's unlikely unless they eat 2/3 of the cash.
I think there's more of an appreciation for cost-controlled years now than there was when the Sox got Pedro/Beckett. Which is to say, I don't think the price for Burnes would be as high as it would have been 20 years ago. When Yu Darvish was traded in 2017, the price was one fringey top 100 guy and two other guys. So, nothing close Meyer. More like Yorke +.
Yeah, for what it's worth @Petagine in a Bottle, I tend to agree pretty much with @moondog80 on this one. Cheap / cost controlled players seem to be worth a heck of a lot more now than they were at the time of the Pedro deal, for certain. Though I admittedly often try to isolate out the Pedro deal because there you were talking about dealing for someone that I think was pretty universally at the time regarded as the best pitcher on the planet. I suppose maybe someone wants to say Maddux could have been in the conversation, but I think that would be a stretch.
Looking at it relative to Beckett or Sale I think is the closer comp. I was pretty sure Beckett had 2 years left (as in I think that 2002, 03, 04 and 05 seasons counted for his clock but he had less than half a dozen starts in 2001 so I didn't think that counted as a year of service time; thus he'd have two left, right?). Sale also had 3 seasons remaining if I'm not misremembering - 2017, 2018 and 2019, but of course Dombrowski extended him following the 2018 season rather than letting 2019 play out. I could be misremembering on Beckett, but that's what I have in my head and looking at BBRef at least backs up the games from 2001. (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckejo02.shtml).
I'd move all of the bolded for 1 year of great talent that fills a need for this team without much question other than the acquired player's willigness to play ball on an extension (I'd even do it without an extension in place). You're not getting young, cost controlled, high level starters for those guys. Those would require Teel/Mayer/Anthony.
Interesting. I admittedly don't think the Sox are close enough to take that kind of a risk right now, but that is of course debatable. Burnes is obviously the most elite that fills a need (as there isn't one at either MI position, nor in RF), maybe one wants to argue Fried is "elite" too, but I think of him as a bit down from elite. I just really don't see the Sox as close enough to take that kind of gamble on a Boras client, sans extension.
The thing about having so many good prospects as the Sox seem to have right now, is that when they trade one, I'm going to be like...noooooo I don't want that guy gone! And yet I'll know it's probably in the best interest of the team.
There it's all going to depend on the return, even more than the player dealt, at least for me. But I'm also closer in mind to the MLB ranking of the Red Sox farm system (16th) as opposed to Fangraphs (2nd). That said, I'm admittedly more down on the system than most on this board, I'd suspect. I suppose it depends on where you fall in that continuum.
*I don't know where BA and BP have the Sox as I don't subscribe to either, but I assume they're higher than MLB but lower than FG. I'm guessing they're in the 5 range for those two, probably averaging out to around 6th or so, objectively speaking.
How are we a good fit for Soto? Great hitter but below average defender (and we already have one of those in the outfield). Plus the Padres are going to ask for a ton back to replenish some of what they sent to Washington, and then we have to sign Soto -- a Boras client -- to an extension. Also, Soto is left handed, which we have too many of currently and more coming from the minors.
Re: Beckett, I know he signed an extension in 2006, his first year with the Sox but he may have been under control through 07 anyways, I can’t find that information but I think you are probably right in that things have changed regarding value of pitchers traded with not much control left. Hell, the Beckett trade was 15 years ago and Pedro was 25 years ago (!!!!) so probably not terribly relevant to 2023. Time flies!
*I don't know where BA and BP have the Sox as I don't subscribe to either, but I assume they're higher than MLB but lower than FG. I'm guessing they're in the 5 range for those two, probably averaging out to around 6th or so, objectively speaking.
Red Sox were 5th in the August BA rankings. BA put out their updated Red Sox Top 10 rankings today, but I don't think they've updated their team rankings, yet.
I was trying to find the updated BP rankings, but couldn't (they seemed to have had the Red Sox 11th before the season).
Bleacher Report (9/20/2023) has the Red Sox 3rd (jumping up from 16th).
Re: Beckett, I know he signed an extension in 2006, his first year with the Sox but he may have been under control through 07 anyways, I can’t find that information but I think you are probably right in that things have changed regarding value of pitchers traded with not much control left. Hell, the Beckett trade was 15 years ago and Pedro was 25 years ago (!!!!) so probably not terribly relevant to 2023. Time flies!
Yeah, I absolutely remember him agreeing to the extension. I think that was one of those where with the old CBT it was "agreed to" even before then, but not announced until after the start of the 2006 season for luxury tax purposes, but I think he had two years left at the time of the deal.
Truth be told, I even think of guys that I'm advocating as lesser pitchers than Beckett (Cease and Gilbert, chiefly). Also, not for nothing, Hanley was (at least on BA) not seen as a top 25 prospect in the game when he and Sanchez were dealt for Beckett (and Lowell). Hanley was 30th and Sanchez was 40th. For whatever that is worth, which probably isn't much.
Moncada was the real "prize" but that was for 3 years of Sale (along with Kopech, of course).
Thanks @JM3. Serious question - do you give any credence to BR? I never have, but you know your stuff, and if you think they're worth an equal seat at the table, I'd cede to your opinion there.
So that puts the Sox (on average) roughly 6th or 7th (if one likes BR) or 8th / 9th (if they're not on par with the others). I have them closer to the MLB/pre-season BP rankings; I'd assume plenty have them closer to the FanGraphs or BR rankings. Which of course is going to have a major impact on how much they think the Sox prospects are worth in terms of trades and the like.
I think roughly splitting the difference and saying they have a "top 7 or 8" system is generally fair, however.
OMFG phenomenal reference! I was an arrested development 13 year old watching that show after school. CH 56? I can’t recall. Bonus points if you remember that!
Re: Beckett, I know he signed an extension in 2006, his first year with the Sox but he may have been under control through 07 anyways, I can’t find that information but I think you are probably right in that things have changed regarding value of pitchers traded with not much control left. Hell, the Beckett trade was 15 years ago and Pedro was 25 years ago (!!!!) so probably not terribly relevant to 2023. Time flies!
Re Beckett and Sale, the Sox were dealing from a very different position of strength, coming off recent titles and a clear claim to be among the league's elite, such that these guys who toiled in futility before they were traded wouldn't dare leave. Pedro a bit less so, but that was so long ago, I guess the money just got it done.
Well, my point with Pedro was that he was a guy on a one year deal who had already made it clear he didn’t want to sign an extension with the Sox. They made the trade anyways, and the rest is history. I wouldn’t shy away from acquiring good players if they only have a year left on their contract. Obviously, there’s a balance. But the Sox seem to be at the point where they need to convert some prospect capital into players that help the major league team.
OMFG phenomenal reference! I was an arrested development 13 year old watching that show after school. CH 56? I can’t recall. Bonus points if you remember that!
Well, my point with Pedro was that he was a guy on a one year deal who had already made it clear he didn’t want to sign an extension with the Sox. They made the trade anyways, and the rest is history. I wouldn’t shy away from acquiring good players if they only have a year left on their contract. Obviously, there’s a balance. But the Sox seem to be at the point where they need to convert some prospect capital into players that help the major league team.
I hear you but it's too old a data point to put much stock in. A lot has changed in how players approach free agency. But hey, we are talking about individuals, and if the Sox acquire one important player on a risky expiring deal, they just have to convince that one guy to sign. So yeah, we more or less agree I think?
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