Official Patriots 2024 Draft Pick Watch Thread (#3)

Oct 12, 2023
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No draft expert here, but I'm concerned with all the Jayden Daniels love. I see a slim dude who's carrying trait is running the ball. A guy with a slightly above average NFL arm. Someone who was throwing to two of college football's top 5-6 WRs. And a guy who'll be a 24 year old rookie. He's a talent for sure, and he may turn out to be a franchise QB, but I'm not seeing it.

Further, I'm concerned that Mayo, as a first-time HC, will take a very conservative approach to the draft. He'll want "his guy" at QB and will go with QB3 irrespective of whether that player might be available 5-10 picks lower, or whether QB4 -- who could be had by trading down -- is just a tick below QB3. I won't fault Mayo if this is what he does, but I'm not sure this is the year to take the third best QB because we happen to be picking third. It looks like each of the top 3 QBs have more warts than you'd hope to see.

Here's an interesting article about JJ McCarthy. It's from 2022 and gives a sense of what Michigan's "pro style" offense is about. Largely this means giving the QB the responsibility of checking out of a play after reading the defense. If I'm understanding, these decisions are often left up to the sidelines in a "check with me" scenario. Here's a little snippet:

"McCarthy is reading this play top-down, so he can either trust his arm to beat what’s essentially bracketed coverage (with his man out-leveraged) or he can check the ball down.

"Not only does he make the right decision to take the safer throw, but his arm talent allows him to clear those underneath defenders and get the ball to his second-level read for a first down and a chunk play. A lot of Big Ten quarterbacks — a lot of really good ones — are going to pass on that throw to Ronnie Bell and wait for Erick All (No. 83) to leak into the middle of the field."

I'm a JJM guy despite his largely underwhelming performance over the last few weeks of the season. He's a fantastic athlete with a hose, a high character guy, and he's still 20 for a few more hours. So if we can trade down to 8, while picking up a #2 and a 2025 #1 -- that is, the 33rd Team mock scenario -- and draft JJM, plus a Paul/Morgan (OT), plus a Polk/Corley (WR) ... sign me up.
There’s no real historical correlation between having great receivers in college and success/failure of QB’s in the pros. Joe Burrow had Chase and Jefferson and still turned out to be great (granted he has had Chase and Higgins). Mac and Fields had great weapons in college and stink in the pros. Stroud had great weapons and is awesome.

Nabers and Thomas are terrific prospects but for the most part they aren’t making him look good. They’re not padding his stats by catching bad passes for big gains, his passes are usually well placed. He’s not relying on quick throws on guys who can get open quickly (like Mac). His arm talent is legit regardless of who is on the other end of the pass (same argument for Penix). On the flip side of course you have a guy like Richardson last year whose stats were deflated by having a lot of decent throws dropped or missed by guys who are working at McDonalds right now.

Now, there’s an argument for both Penix and Daniels that if they go to offenses without vertical weapons, they will struggle because the ability to make those deep throws is a big part of their value but that’s different than saying these QB’s are only good because they have good receivers.

As for his age, I think it’s a non issue. He’s worked very hard to improve the flaws in his game. He’s not good simply because he has a ton of experience and has maxed out his learning (therefore would have less upside as a pro as he’s hit his developmental wall). Daniels 2023 was a much better version of 2022 and there’s reason to think he can still improve quite a bit. You can look at guys like Burrow and Purdy as guys with a ton of college development time (Burrow in years, Purdy in starts) who have hit it big in the pros. I’d be a little bit more worried about Penix in terms of age simply because there wasn’t a huge jump in his skills between 2022 and 2023. He might just be what he is with limited ability to fix the flaws he still has.

his weight/frame is clearly an issue and the big risk teams need to assess. But all the reports about his passion for the game, desire to improve (both which we have seen on the field) and his arm talent make him a high end prospect.

McCarthy has tools but what big time games or throws can anyone point to where he’s put his team on his back and come up huge? He might be a very talented guy, but there’s so little to go off of that he’s a massive risk. His performance in the playoffs was decent but not special. He gets credit for being a “winner” and having those intangibles but in his last 5 games he threw for over 150 yards once. He simply didn’t have the opportunity to show whether or not he can be a guy to carry a team which is what true franchise QB’s can do. His body of work was that of a game manager, and while I think his skills indicate he could be more than that in the pros, it’s a huge unknown.
 

twibnotes

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There’s no real historical correlation between having great receivers in college and success/failure of QB’s in the pros. Joe Burrow had Chase and Jefferson and still turned out to be great (granted he has had Chase and Higgins). Mac and Fields had great weapons in college and stink in the pros. Stroud had great weapons and is awesome.

Nabers and Thomas are terrific prospects but for the most part they aren’t making him look good. They’re not padding his stats by catching bad passes for big gains, his passes are usually well placed. He’s not relying on quick throws on guys who can get open quickly (like Mac). His arm talent is legit regardless of who is on the other end of the pass (same argument for Penix). On the flip side of course you have a guy like Richardson last year whose stats were deflated by having a lot of decent throws dropped or missed by guys who are working at McDonalds right now.

Now, there’s an argument for both Penix and Daniels that if they go to offenses without vertical weapons, they will struggle because the ability to make those deep throws is a big part of their value but that’s different than saying these QB’s are only good because they have good receivers.

As for his age, I think it’s a non issue. He’s worked very hard to improve the flaws in his game. He’s not good simply because he has a ton of experience and has maxed out his learning (therefore would have less upside as a pro as he’s hit his developmental wall). Daniels 2023 was a much better version of 2022 and there’s reason to think he can still improve quite a bit. You can look at guys like Burrow and Purdy as guys with a ton of college development time (Burrow in years, Purdy in starts) who have hit it big in the pros. I’d be a little bit more worried about Penix in terms of age simply because there wasn’t a huge jump in his skills between 2022 and 2023. He might just be what he is with limited ability to fix the flaws he still has.

his weight/frame is clearly an issue and the big risk teams need to assess. But all the reports about his passion for the game, desire to improve (both which we have seen on the field) and his arm talent make him a high end prospect.

McCarthy has tools but what big time games or throws can anyone point to where he’s put his team on his back and come up huge? He might be a very talented guy, but there’s so little to go off of that he’s a massive risk. His performance in the playoffs was decent but not special. He gets credit for being a “winner” and having those intangibles but in his last 5 games he threw for over 150 yards once. He simply didn’t have the opportunity to show whether or not he can be a guy to carry a team which is what true franchise QB’s can do. His body of work was that of a game manager, and while I think his skills indicate he could be more than that in the pros, it’s a huge unknown.
Very true the risk with JJ is tied to his low volume of throws. But, he has made big throws in very big games / moments…

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7WRl0clL0U


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ebMzN4vytQ


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4WcN1UOjmHM


Put differently, it’s true Mich ran a very balanced offense, but it’s not true that JJ wasn’t a key weapon who made big plays in big spots to win big games.
 

Jungleland

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McCarthy is interesting to me in two scenarios:

1) MHJ at 3 and McCarthy in the second without a trade up
2) Trade back from 3 to pick up a 2025 or 2026 first, take Nabers, Odunze, Alt, or Fashanu with the trade back, and McCarthy in the second without any trade capital going toward his pick

I still favor Daniels or Maye straight up if the QB available at 3 has a top 5 pick grade for the Pats front office, but for a team that desperately needs a QB, two WRs, and probably two tackles, I think there are reasonable scenarios where this team does not pick at 3 and/or pick a first round QB.
 

rguilmar

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No draft expert here, but I'm concerned with all the Jayden Daniels love. I see a slim dude who's carrying trait is running the ball. A guy with a slightly above average NFL arm. Someone who was throwing to two of college football's top 5-6 WRs. And a guy who'll be a 24 year old rookie. He's a talent for sure, and he may turn out to be a franchise QB, but I'm not seeing it.

Further, I'm concerned that Mayo, as a first-time HC, will take a very conservative approach to the draft. He'll want "his guy" at QB and will go with QB3 irrespective of whether that player might be available 5-10 picks lower, or whether QB4 -- who could be had by trading down -- is just a tick below QB3. I won't fault Mayo if this is what he does, but I'm not sure this is the year to take the third best QB because we happen to be picking third. It looks like each of the top 3 QBs have more warts than you'd hope to see.

Here's an interesting article about JJ McCarthy. It's from 2022 and gives a sense of what Michigan's "pro style" offense is about. Largely this means giving the QB the responsibility of checking out of a play after reading the defense. If I'm understanding, these decisions are often left up to the sidelines in a "check with me" scenario. Here's a little snippet:

"McCarthy is reading this play top-down, so he can either trust his arm to beat what’s essentially bracketed coverage (with his man out-leveraged) or he can check the ball down.

"Not only does he make the right decision to take the safer throw, but his arm talent allows him to clear those underneath defenders and get the ball to his second-level read for a first down and a chunk play. A lot of Big Ten quarterbacks — a lot of really good ones — are going to pass on that throw to Ronnie Bell and wait for Erick All (No. 83) to leak into the middle of the field."

I'm a JJM guy despite his largely underwhelming performance over the last few weeks of the season. He's a fantastic athlete with a hose, a high character guy, and he's still 20 for a few more hours. So if we can trade down to 8, while picking up a #2 and a 2025 #1 -- that is, the 33rd Team mock scenario -- and draft JJM, plus a Paul/Morgan (OT), plus a Polk/Corley (WR) ... sign me up.
He came into LSU pretty slim but has added some bulk. 6’3” 210 lbs isn’t that slim. Lamar Jackson is 6’2” 215 lbs, give or take, and a summer of an NFL caliber weight routine can do wonders.

I like the kid. He’s shown an ability to improve his game from last year to this year, much more so than the other top QBs. Add in the fact that he’s putting the work in at the gym, and I see someone who wants to get better and is getting better.
 

OldeBeanTowne

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For those advocating trade back if possible, and I may count myself among you, does anyone know what the current read on the 2025 QB draft class looks like?

Besides Sanders is there anyone intriguing? Milroe? Just wondering whether waiting until next year on QB, including after taking someone this year in the second round or later, is even worth considering.
 

DJnVa

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For those advocating trade back if possible, and I may count myself among you, does anyone know what the current read on the 2025 QB draft class looks like?

Besides Sanders is there anyone intriguing? Milroe? Just wondering whether waiting until next year on QB, including after taking someone this year in the second round or later, is even worth considering.
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/QB/1/2025
 

Cellar-Door

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For those advocating trade back if possible, and I may count myself among you, does anyone know what the current read on the 2025 QB draft class looks like?

Besides Sanders is there anyone intriguing? Milroe? Just wondering whether waiting until next year on QB, including after taking someone this year in the second round or later, is even worth considering.
It's hard to judge a class a year out but... I really don't think there is a Caleb Williams in that class.
Milroe to me isn't gonna play QB in the NFL, he's just not good at all the parts that aren't running the ball.

Edit- I think right now the guys in the running for the top pick are all the guys who went back because they weren't going to get 1st round grades (Sanders, Beck, Ewers)
 

DJnVa

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I won't hate it if we get MHJ, but what scares me is a run on QBs after we get him and we either burn draft capital to move back up or we go without and Gardner Minshew and Mac Jones are sharing snaps in preseason.
 

twibnotes

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One thing that is concerning is that onwenu might be hard to re-sign. If so, the o-line has a lot of holes. I hate the idea of throwing a young qb behind a leaky line - some guys don’t bounce back from that situation
 

Justthetippett

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He came into LSU pretty slim but has added some bulk. 6’3” 210 lbs isn’t that slim. Lamar Jackson is 6’2” 215 lbs, give or take, and a summer of an NFL caliber weight routine can do wonders.

I like the kid. He’s shown an ability to improve his game from last year to this year, much more so than the other top QBs. Add in the fact that he’s putting the work in at the gym, and I see someone who wants to get better and is getting better.
Lamar is listed at almost the same weight he was as a rookie, and that doesn't pass the eye test. I'd bet he's closer to 225 now. Ideally Daniels would be able to do the same. (JJ isn't any bigger really.) Aside from the weight though he'll need to pick his spots running, etc. There's no way around it.
 

OldeBeanTowne

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Thanks. I checked this and some other places before posting, but was looking for a more general idea of how the class is thought of/projected.
It's hard to judge a class a year out but... I really don't think there is a Caleb Williams in that class.
Milroe to me isn't gonna play QB in the NFL, he's just not good at all the parts that aren't running the ball.

Edit- I think right now the guys in the running for the top pick are all the guys who went back because they weren't going to get 1st round grades (Sanders, Beck, Ewers)
I guess your first sentence answers the question, and thanks for the Milroe insight. My first impression was that it doesn't look like a very inspiring class accepting the caveat of who the hell knows this far out?
 

Zincman

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I won't hate it if we get MHJ, but what scares me is a run on QBs after we get him and we either burn draft capital to move back up or we go without and Gardner Minshew and Mac Jones are sharing snaps in preseason.
This is so true. The presumption that there will be a worthy QB prospect available in Rd 2 may be highly flawed. There are so many QB needy teams that it is more than possible that 6 QBs go in round 1. Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Nix, and Penix are all 1st round possibilities, especially as the picking get short near the end of round 1. Especially with the combine and pro days yet to come.
 

DJnVa

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It's not binary, but the main choice seems to be between something like:

--rookie QB throwing behind revamped and possibly leaky OL with mid-level at best receivers unless they hit in draft or FA

or

--Mac Jones (or Zappe or Brissett or whatever) throwing to MHJ behind revamped and possibly leaky OL
 

j44thor

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Thanks. I checked this and some other places before posting, but was looking for a more general idea of how the class is thought of/projected.

I guess your first sentence answers the question, and thanks for the Milroe insight. My first impression was that it doesn't look like a very inspiring class accepting the caveat of who the hell knows this far out?
I don't think relying on the 25 draft for answers at QB is prudent. The NE Defense should be at least as good if not better next season with the return of Judon and Gonzo. With minimal offensive improvement they should be drafting in the 10-14 range putting them out of reach for what appears to be a mediocre class to begin with.
 

BaseballJones

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I am not seeing the downside of Daniels. Good arm, makes all the throws, great athlete, did very well in a brutal conference. He’s got all the tools.
 
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I'm not sure it changes what I want in this year's draft, but I believe it's worth bearing in mind that this team isn't going to win a ton of games next year anyway. A longer term view might change what some of us prefer the Patriots take at #3 overall, which makes me wonder if maybe it's worth the powers that be just doing whatever they can to build a roster devoid of talent, certainly on the offensive side of the ball. Having said that, it is hard to land a potentially elite QB and it's rare - we hope - that the team will be in position to draft one like we may be at the moment.
 

gammoseditor

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I am not seeing the downside of Daniels. Good arm, makes all the throws, great athlete, did very well in a brutal conference. He’s got all the tools.
On Nov 1 the athletic ranked him as the #43 overall prospect in the draft. Strangely there isn’t a single negative in the write up. Disclaimer, his stock is clearly up since these rankings came out and this is only one datapoint.

Daniels (2,573 yards passing, 30 total TDs) put quality tape out there while at Arizona State, but he took a noticeable jump last season after transferring to LSU and looks even better in 2023.

His running ability is a valuable asset, but I’m most impressed with his confidence and control as a passer — both in the pocket and on the move. He leads the FBS in completions of 20-plus yards with 49.

Daniels has received starter-level grades from NFL scouts.
 

Bowser

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You certainly know more about McCarthy and football in general than I do, and if you want to priortize projection over productivity that's fine, but taking what is largely projection at #8 strikes me as not wise.
A very fair point. Part of my problem is I loved JJM going back to last year and was pretty stunned he never became a playmaker down the stretch this season. He played, frankly, like a Round 2 QB.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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This is the same kid that meditates in plain view of the press before every game right?

Please, no.

Not that there’s anything wrong with meditating. I partake myself from time to time. But no one actually looking to clear their mind would ever for one second do it right in front of all the cameras unless they did it as sort of a PR stunt.

This will sound short and rude but after Mac’s breathing exercises between drives I think I just want a QB that is built right out of the gate to handle the pressure of playing in arguably the most visible, high-pressure position in American sports.
Not to go sideways on this, but meditation can achieve different purposes.

Is he going to he able to clear his mind and find "inner peace"? Probably not. But if he's simply looking to try and "be in the moment", I could see the benefit of that.
 

Cellar-Door

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Exactly and his stock will go up after the combine if he participates. He's going to go second and we will draft Maye assuming we don't trade back.
Seems like most people in the draft world are pretty sure he won't run. Probably going for a Bryce Young artificially inflate your weight combine.
I actually wonder if the pro-days and such might benefit Maye. He's gonna measure great and throwing sessions I think will show his arm to have more to it than Daniels, that's one of the knocks on Jayden is his arm isn't great.
I could definitely see either going #2 though. I kind of hope it's Maye. He probably has the higher ceiling, but .... I don't know he just gives me Wentz vibes.
 

Jimbodandy

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I won't hate it if we get MHJ, but what scares me is a run on QBs after we get him and we either burn draft capital to move back up or we go without and Gardner Minshew and Mac Jones are sharing snaps in preseason.
I'm on team QB, but one would not be crazy to suggest that MJH, two OTs with round 2 & 3, and a Minshew level QB wouldn't be light fucking years better than the offense that we just watched.

When you look at what some of the very mid QBs did this year behind decent offensive lines with half-decent receivers (Mayfield, Geno, et al.), it's not hard to visualize.

I'm still picking whoever's left of QBs 1-3 and grabbing an X and OT, but it's gonna suck watching MHJ build a HoF career somewhere else. Hell he could even put up 1000yds as a Bear rookie.
 

yalesoxfan

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I won't hate it if we get MHJ, but what scares me is a run on QBs after we get him and we either burn draft capital to move back up or we go without and Gardner Minshew and Mac Jones are sharing snaps in preseason.
This is my thought, as well. If we take MHJ, I think we’re watching Zappe throwing to him next year. Too many teams are looking for the QB in the draft or the bridge QB like Cousins.
If the defense comes back healthy and the line and receiver group produces slightly more, even with Zappe, the team will win more games and probably won’t pick top 10 in 2025. We are looking at solid mediocrity.
 

Justthetippett

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This is my thought, as well. If we take MHJ, I think we’re watching Zappe throwing to him next year. Too many teams are looking for the QB in the draft or the bridge QB like Cousins.
If the defense comes back healthy and the line and receiver group produces slightly more, even with Zappe, the team will win more games and probably won’t pick top 10 in 2025. We are looking at solid mediocrity.
This is the risk. And if they enter the season having not at least attempted to answer the QB question, that's going to very disappointing. I can be sold on a trade back, an OT and a swing at McCarthy or Penix later in R1 or R2. I think MHJ is a luxury for a team like the Pats right now.

With BB gone I think it increases the chances we play this one straight and just grab a QB. BB was often unorthodox and (rightly) extremely confident that he could get the most out of limited talent. Notwithstanding the trade stories on Mac, this was ultimately his downfall with personnel. The new admin is more likely to follow the consensus, at least for year 1.
 

NDame616

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Here is what I want the Patriots to do:
Pick 1 of the QBs from Maye/Daniels and commit to drafting him if he's still there at 3. If not, trade back or take MHJ.

The odds are more likely that all 3 will be busts than NFL stars, and while I'd hope they hit on the pick if it's a QB, I feel like if we take the "third guy left" it's "well, we really think all 3 are great and are happy with anyone!" That's how you get Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, etc.
 

Curt S Loew

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Here is what I want the Patriots to do:
Pick 1 of the QBs from Maye/Daniels and commit to drafting him if he's still there at 3. If not, trade back or take MHJ.
Well, that's basically every scenario.

I am actually coming around on trading down and grabbing Alt(especially with Onwenu unlikely to return).*

I haven't seen extensive tape on all the QB's, but I have watched them all. I really think McCarthy could be a hidden gem. If only for where he is likely to go.

We're not getting Williams. I could live with the above scenario. Today at least.

*Narrator: This is highly unlikely to happen.
 

jk333

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The odds are more likely that all 3 will be busts than NFL stars, and while I'd hope they hit on the pick if it's a QB, I feel like if we take the "third guy left" it's "well, we really think all 3 are great and are happy with anyone!" That's how you get Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, etc.
Not sure that QBs are this projectable. To use your example, in 2018 the Jets on purpose traded up to #3 for Darnold. Josh Allen was taken at #7.

I think previous posts have shown that most good qbs are taken in the first round. I’m not arguing that point. I’m just not convinced that teams are able to parse one top QB prospect versus another.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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Not sure that QBs are this projectable. To use your example, in 2018 the Jets on purpose traded up to #3 for Darnold. Josh Allen was taken at #7.

I think previous posts have shown that most good qbs are taken in the first round. I’m not arguing that point. I’m just not convinced that teams are able to parse one top QB prospect versus another.
Exactly. We won't be drafting in the top 3 again for a very long time. You have to take a swing at a top QB or be very very sure if you trade back you're going to get the second-tier QB (Penix, Nix or McCarthy) that you want.
 

jk333

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Exactly. We won't be drafting in the top 3 again for a very long time. You have to take a swing at a top QB or be very very sure if you trade back you're going to get the second-tier QB (Penix, Nix or McCarthy) that you want.
Yes, if you think Penix is as good as Daniels or Maye, sure trade down. But otherwise, just take the best QB prospect you can get.
 

Zincman

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Exactly. We won't be drafting in the top 3 again for a very long time. You have to take a swing at a top QB or be very very sure if you trade back you're going to get the second-tier QB (Penix, Nix or McCarthy) that you want.
OTOH, if you take a swing and miss at #3, you actually have a decent chance at drafting in the top3 again.
 

PRabbit

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1) Get Maye or Daniels at 3. Preferences to WR and OT prospects if grades are close, but overall BPA down the draft.

2) If not available, trade back (but not too far) to get Bowers, Nabers, or whatever pass-catching prospect is coveted and available. Use the extra draft capital to trade back into the 1st and get McCarthy. BPA down the draft, with preference to OT and WR prospects if grades are close. Get Minshew or Brisett or whoever isn't going to shit it up in FA.
 

DJnVa

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1) Get Maye or Daniels at 3. Preferences to WR and OT prospects if grades are close, but overall BPA down the draft.

2) If not available, trade back (but not too far) to get Bowers, Nabers, or whatever pass-catching prospect is coveted and available. Use the extra draft capital to trade back into the 1st and get McCarthy. BPA down the draft, with preference to OT and WR prospects if grades are close. Get Minshew or Brisett or whoever isn't going to shit it up in FA.
So don't draft Williams if it's him?

And, yeah, deciding which FA won't "shit it up" is kinda the whole point.
 

Cellar-Door

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Honestly... the more I watch the more I think you have to at least take the temperate of the Bears about a 1 for 3 swap. I assume the answer is "there is no price, we want him" but the more I watch Williams the more distance I see between him and the other QBs.
 

DJnVa

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Honestly... the more I watch the more I think you have to at least take the temperate of the Bears about a 1 for 3 swap. I assume the answer is "there is no price, we want him" but the more I watch Williams the more distance I see between him and the other QBs.
If they hire Kingsbury and are willing to trade away the chance to take Williams, that's a red flag.
 

Cellar-Door

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If they hire Kingsbury and are willing to trade away the chance to take Williams, that's a red flag.
Meh. I don't think Kingsbury's input is something I care about. I saw him coach in the NFL and college.
Also they didn't hire him yet.

Honestly the easiest way to tell that Caleb is the best prospect in this draft is that every discussion of him recently is vague "well his Dad is weird?" "Does he have the right vibes?" That's what gets put out when everybody knows you're the top prospect.

Not to say Williams doesn't have real concerns... has to play on schedule more, he's maybe a bit small....
 

lexrageorge

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Overall yes, certainly not in the first round. Not even close.
There were a couple of notable trade-ups, including trading up for Daniel Graham in 2002, and going up one slot to get Ty Warren in 2003. And, of course, trading up for Chandler Jones in 2012. It didn't happen often, but Bill generally did a good job when trading up in the first round.

Trades out of the first round included 2020 (picked Kyle Dugger in the 2nd), 2017 (Brandin Cooks trade), 2013 (traded for Jamie Collins and Logan Ryan picks, among others), 2009 (multiple times traded out of first round and ended with mostly nothing, although the exception was Julian Edelman with one of the 7th rounders eventually gained), and 2000 (traded by Kraft to hire Belichick).

Obligatory reminder that 2 Belichick first round draft picks were stolen by Goodell, and that it is difficult to trade up too far from #32 without giving up a fair amount of additional draft capital.
 

Super Nomario

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There were a couple of notable trade-ups, including trading up for Daniel Graham in 2002, and going up one slot to get Ty Warren in 2003. And, of course, trading up for Chandler Jones in 2012. It didn't happen often, but Bill generally did a good job when trading up in the first round.

Trades out of the first round included 2020 (picked Kyle Dugger in the 2nd), 2017 (Brandin Cooks trade), 2013 (traded for Jamie Collins and Logan Ryan picks, among others), 2009 (multiple times traded out of first round and ended with mostly nothing, although the exception was Julian Edelman with one of the 7th rounders eventually gained), and 2000 (traded by Kraft to hire Belichick).

Obligatory reminder that 2 Belichick first round draft picks were stolen by Goodell, and that it is difficult to trade up too far from #32 without giving up a fair amount of additional draft capital.
They got the 44th pick in 2010 with one of those trade backs ... which after throwing in a sixth to move up two slots, became Rob Gronkowski. They got Edelman and Gronk in the same trade, essentially.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,199
Meh. I don't think Kingsbury's input is something I care about. I saw him coach in the NFL and college.
Fair--but if the Bears hire him it's clear *they* care about that input. And if that input is not to draft Caleb, that's at least, I don't know, interesting?
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,935
Fair--but if the Bears hire him it's clear *they* care about that input. And if that input is not to draft Caleb, that's at least, I don't know, interesting?
Yeah I was mostly making a crack at Kingsbury that I think he's bad at identifying and developing talent within his teams.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,199
For those without access, he has Daniels #2 to Washington, but says it's really close.


3. New England Patriots
Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

It's a total makeover in New England, which will have a new coach and front office structure for the first time since Bill Belichick joined the organization in 2000. New coach Jerod Mayo, whose background is on defense, inherits a total mess on offense. The Patriots ranked second to last in the league in offensive points per game (12.9) and their offensive line ranked last in pass block win rate (43.5%). Linemen Trent Brown and Mike Onwenu and tight ends Hunter Henry and Mike Gesicki are among the team's free agents. What better way to start a new era -- and possible offensive rebuild -- than to take an elite quarterback at the top of the draft?

Maye had some ups and downs in 2023, but he's an outstanding deep-ball thrower in a 6-foot-4 frame. He takes care of the football and has some dual-threat ability. There's a ton to like in his potential. And while the Bears might struggle with the decision to move on from their first-round quarterback picked in the 2021 draft, the Patriots shouldn't agonize much. Mac Jones has regressed enough to make that an easy call this offseason. Quarterback is by far New England's biggest need.