Oct. 22 Celtics @ Magic

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This won't attract any national headlines, but quality win. It would have been easy for the C's to let down and lose tonite.
 

TripleOT

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So Jaylen Brown had a rough scoring night but he is the game leader in plus minus, at +12
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Takes all different ways to win games. You’ll take two wins out of a Florida back to back all fuckin day baby.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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DW was 5/8 from 3 in game 1 v. Golden State, so tonight will have to remain the Derrick White very good but not best game as a Celtic game.
 

koufax32

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So one thing we learned tonight is that Orlando is definitely not in the bottom feeder category of teams. They could be pretty good sooner rather than later.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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No Al, no TimeLord against a Magic team with good size was definitely a factor. Gave up a lot of second-chance points.

Tatum, Brown, White, and Smart all right at 36/37 minutes, Granite with 31, Brogdon just 20 (he was sorta meh tonight, but had some big buckets underneath).

Tatum not happy with the effort tonight, Magic were "too comfortable." Like his attitude a LOT right now. He really seems to have matured this summer.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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No Al, no TimeLord against a Magic team with good size was definitely a factor. Gave up a lot of second-chance points.

Tatum, Brown, White, and Smart all right at 36/37 minutes, Granite with 31, Brogdon just 20 (he was sorta meh tonight, but had some big buckets underneath).

Tatum not happy with the effort tonight, Magic were "too comfortable." Like his attitude a LOT right now. He really seems to have matured this summer.
I mean it's just talk but the Hanlen comments about Tatum being singularly focused on a championship during the summer is consistent with your observation.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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Coach Joe throwin some shade post-game by acknowledging the criticisms of his timeout usage. This guy has some brass ones that I didn’t anticipate.
 

Euclis20

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He'll be in the running for MVP along with Giannis, Luka, Joker

the scoring title is for guys like Trae, Beal
Tatum will never be a rebounder or defender like Giannis, and he'll never be the playmaker that Luka or Jokic are. Tatum's path to the MVP is similar to Durant's - scoring an efficient 30+ ppg while leading the league and being well above average (but not elite) everywhere else.

Magic might have something legit with Banchero
Indeed, it's rare to see a guy that big and that fast have that smooth of a shot. He feels like a bigger lock to get to 90% of his ceiling than anyone drafted highly in the last couple of years, he'll be an all-star for a decade plus.
 

dhellers

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Tatum will never be a rebounder or defender like Giannis, and he'll never be the playmaker that Luka or Jokic are. Tatum's path to the MVP is similar to Durant's - scoring an efficient 30+ ppg while leading the league and being well above average (but not elite) everywhere else.
Sort of how Tim Duncan was never the greatest at any one skill, but was real good at everything?
 

Euclis20

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Sort of how Tim Duncan was never the greatest at any one skill, but was real good at everything?
Duncan was never an elite scorer or distributor, but he was arguably the best defender for most of his prime (somehow never won DPOY, despite making 1st team defense 8 times and 2nd team 7 times) and was one of the best rebounders in the league as well. You have to be the best (or one of the very best) at at least one thing, as well as being the best player on one of the best teams. Tatum's path to MVP involves him being arguably the best scorer in the league - he probably never clears 9 rebounds or 6 assists, and he'll never make 1st team all defense. He needs to score an efficient 30+ ppg, that's how he gets to MVP level.
 

slamminsammya

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Duncan was never an elite scorer or distributor, but he was arguably the best defender for most of his prime (somehow never won DPOY, despite making 1st team defense 8 times and 2nd team 7 times) and was one of the best rebounders in the league as well. You have to be the best (or one of the very best) at at least one thing, as well as being the best player on one of the best teams. Tatum's path to MVP involves him being arguably the best scorer in the league - he probably never clears 9 rebounds or 6 assists, and he'll never make 1st team all defense. He needs to score an efficient 30+ ppg, that's how he gets to MVP level.
I can definitely see Tatum making 1st team all defense. Why wouldn't he?
 

Euclis20

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I can definitely see Tatum making 1st team all defense. Why wouldn't he?
It's possible, but so much of that is reputation, and he's a long ways away.

I pulled 9 rebounds and 6 assists out of my ass, but looking back over the last 15 MVPs, the only ones to not clear either mark are Durant and Kobe. It's not a surprise that of all the MVPs over that time, Tatum is compared to those two players the most. This is his path to MVP. He just doesn't fill up a box score the same way that any of the major contenders (Giannis, Luka, Embiid, Jokic) can, he has to be the best scorer.
 

snowmanny

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I can definitely see Tatum making 1st team all defense. Why wouldn't he?
It tough when you have two other Celtics that get mentioned for their defense over and over.

Edit - 1975 the Celtics had two on the first team and two on the second team. Hard to imagine that in this era.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Tatum will never be a rebounder or defender like Giannis,
Understand your pont t on fense, watch how guys generally don't even try to attack Tatum when Tatum is guarding on the perimeter. He's probably the best perimeter defender on he Cs.

His offense is superlative but IMO the only reason JT's D isn't mentioned in as comparable to Giannis is word-of-mouth (reputation).

Someone connect with Scal and have him start talking up JT's defense on the broadcasts like he did or Smrt DPOY last year.
 

TripleOT

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Is there a more versatile, better defender against 1-4 than Tatum? Not many players can be adept at slowing down quick PGs, fast twitch, strong wings, and bulkier PFs.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Is there a more versatile, better defender against 1-4 than Tatum? Not many players can be adept at slowing down quick PGs, fast twitch, strong wings, and bulkier PFs.
According to a survey of NBA GMs, the best perimeter defenders are:
1. Marcus Smart, Boston – 41%
2. Jrue Holiday, Milwaukee – 31%
3. Kawhi Leonard, LA Clippers – 10%
4. Mikal Bridges, Phoenix – 7%
» Also receiving votes: Paul George; Ben Simmons; and Andrew Wiggins

I don't watch a ton of the rest of the guys but from what I'd see, I'd put Tatum up there with any of them. Simmons pre-return was certainly special, and as SamRayNot will tell you (over and over again), what Wiggins did on defense last playoffs was amazing, although he's certainly helped by not having to be a main offensive cog.

I'll put this out that in terms of 1-3, JT is probably better than Smart since as we know, Smart has some issues with super quick guards, but Smart is so important to the Cs scheme because he can guard 4s and many 5s from the ballhandler role - so I'm not saying JT is a better defensive player but just in terms of perimeter defenders, JT is probably better. (Note that IIRC, he opened on Cole Anthony last night.)
 

Euclis20

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Is there a more versatile, better defender against 1-4 than Tatum? Not many players can be adept at slowing down quick PGs, fast twitch, strong wings, and bulkier PFs.
Simmons. There might be others, but I think despite all his other flaws, no one tops Simmons in this area.

Understand your pont t on fense, watch how guys generally don't even try to attack Tatum when Tatum is guarding on the perimeter. He's probably the best perimeter defender on he Cs.

His offense is superlative but IMO the only reason JT's D isn't mentioned in as comparable to Giannis is word-of-mouth (reputation).

Someone connect with Scal and have him start talking up JT's defense on the broadcasts like he did or Smrt DPOY last year.
I don't disagree with any of this (other than feeling that comparing his D to Giannis is a slight exaggeration), just that his relative quiet defensive reputation keeps it from being a real asset in the MVP discussion.
 

mostman

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I watched this game on delay, so I just caught up with the thread. One thing I’ll add, this is one of those games they lose last year where they frustratingly let go of the rope for long stretches. The added role players and White’s improved shooting make this team more capable of weathering those stretches. It’s going to be fun to watch this season.