I fucking love this. How is this the first time I've heard of this idea.
I'd even go for a tech like system where 3 egregious flops gets you 1 tech, and it builds up through the season.
Not Being a Joker, We Need A The Finals Thread
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I'd even go for a tech like system where 3 egregious flops gets you 1 tech, and it builds up through the season.
Maybe they could have an offsite team review flops after every quarter, and assess technicals in-game.
The NBA tried something similar about 10 years ago and it went nowhere. Ultimately I envision any system like this punishing players like Smart and ignoring superstars like LeBron because they don't want to deal with the backlash.
NBA establishes new anti-flopping penalties, could fine players - ESPN
Having two days off between games 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 has really sapped the energy from this series.
The thing is, what’s an “egregious flop”? How many times do we see fouls challenged (or discussed in the LTM report) where we think there’s no way it was a foul but the call is upheld?
I guess maybe this could work for extreme cases where a player truly wasn’t touched at all, but in the vast majority of cases there is some contact and the replay officials are left to try to determine its severity. Without a bright-line rule, which is impossible, we’d just be adding on another layer of arbitrary decisions.
Also, as a practical matter, it would be a pretty significant time commitment to have the NBA review every possession of every game in time for the teams’ next games (how would this work when teams have a back-to-back?). There’s a reason they do the LTM report only for close games.
When the NBA Finals drops to 3rd on my personal interest list behind Roland Garros and the PGA despite having a lot at stake....something went awry.
Heard on the radio this am that MIA is +90 or so in the 4Q during the playoffs, which is outrageous. What is even more outrageous is that MIA apparently had the most efficient 4Q in the entire NBA season in G2.
I'm sure some of that (as you point out) is skill - MIA knows what it wants to do offensively and just runs the same stuff until it gets the shot it wants plus the zone defense is giving teams fits and I presume it's a lot "easier" to shoot when the other team is missing on the other end) - but some of it is luck too.
It's better to be lucky than good.
Was hoping MIA's luck was running out. Still hoping . . . .
Riley bodyfat tests and Heat Culture conditioning could be a factor. Nice narrative anyway.
I'm sure Riley is trumpeting Heat Culture every chance he gets.
Personally, knowing exactly what they want to do on both sides of the ball is probably the better reason.
In game 2 I am tempted to say yes, actually. That is exactly what it looked like to me. The first quarter tonight will be interesting.
Well if a team has something that works, it may not be good in the long run to run it all of the time.
I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the Finals but I'm pretty sure MIA ran more zone against BOS in the 4Q of tight games than they did in the first 3 Qs.
I actually think having “scrubs” helps here, since there is a lot less bottom-up play design and more adherence to the system. Hard to see a lot of teams executing these schemes if star player X doesn’t get the touches he wants.
When we have robot umps, this will go away and it's bullshit that it's currently celebrated as a "skill".
On his podcast with Joe Posnanski, Michael Schur aka @KenTremendous nailed it, calling the Heat "Dementors" and saying "the Miami Heat exist for one and only one reason, and that reason is to suck all the joy and happiness out of sports and the fan experience."
On his substack Posnanski added:
On his substack Posnanski added:
This bit sums it up for me:
I was as pissed as anyone when the Cs lost the ECF but I have to say I don’t really get the complaints about watching the Heat from a neutral fan perspective. They hit a lot of threes, cause a lot of chaos, and are doing something that no NBA team has really done in terms of taking down multiple teams that were vastly better than them during the regular season. And a lot of their games have been pretty close.
I can’t say I’m exactly “rooting” for them but if the alternative is watching Denver stomp all over them in 4-5 blowout games I’d gladly take a more competitive, hard-fought series from a neutral perspective.
I can’t say I’m exactly “rooting” for them but if the alternative is watching Denver stomp all over them in 4-5 blowout games I’d gladly take a more competitive, hard-fought series from a neutral perspective.
Maybe its horrifying for the NBA to market?
I don’t know, I can’t stand the Heat and I think, as a team, they rely heavily on the refs to reward their flopping while also not calling it tight when they are on defense.
However, calling them “horrifying” is a pretty big exaggeration
I don’t know, I can’t stand the Heat and I think, as a team, they rely heavily on the refs to reward their flopping while also not calling it tight when they are on defense.
However, calling them “horrifying” is a pretty big exaggeration
Kudos to you on the ability to watch the Heat neutrally. I sure as shit can’t do it.
I've heard shit like this before, and it's infuriating when it's applied to a team that you root for.
This is all horseshit to me. It's already a star league. They already get a huge benefit of the doubt. If you want to make the NBA one where you find a way to make it so the Steph Curries and the Lebron Jameses always win, instead of almost always win, then make it a skills contest or award trophies by voting. Until then, the best team is the one that wins.
I think most of us are Patriots fans. I'm not expecting anyone to like the Heat or even to be rooting for them. I'm not. I hope Denver wins in 5. But, man, they have found a way to win the games, and that's what they give the trophy for. Good for them. That Posnanski quote sounds an awful lot like the Indy banner shit that we all mock. Maybe Denver can hang a "we were better" banner if they lose.
Wow, this is not what that means at all. It's actually a compliment to the way they keep beating teams that everyone thinks are better than them, by playing defense and slowing things down and getting big shots from UDFAs, thereby crushing the spirit of everyone rooting against them. The bolded parts make that clear.
The point is that the Heat are again and again stealing the joy of so many non-Heat fans who have to watch them pull out win after win against much higher seeded and higher rated teams in the frustrating style they play. It frustrates the heck out of me to watch them. You have to give them credit for winning, obviously. But that's not the point, the point is if you watch them do this to your much higher rated team, it's infuriating and soul-crushing.
It's written from the perspective of sports fans watching their teams get exposed and defeated on the big stage by an 8-seed that just slowly grinds them into dust. I don't even understand what you're saying here-- do you really think he is saying it's horrifying in a real life, real problems in society kind of way? It's so obviously not. I mean, what??
Ok, I guess I might have misunderstood what they are saying but I actually still don't really even understand what the point is. It always sucks to be a fan of a team that gets beaten by another team and when your team loses, it does take away the joy of the series. But I guess I'm having trouble understanding the rationale of why losing to the Heat should be any more joyless than losing to, say, a team with superstars who does it in a flashier way. I really can't identify a meaningful difference in my feelings between losing to the Heat this year and losing to the Dubs last year, except maybe that last year was tougher because they actually were just one series away from the trophy.
So if they are speaking for fans of the Bucks, Nicks, Celtics and possibly Denver, it doesn't resonate with me. Losing sucks. I took the quote about "most of us are not Heat fans" to mean he was purporting to speak for neutrals, which is what I was reacting to.
I don’t know, it definitely bothered me more to lose to the 8th seeded team that barely won 1 of their 2 play-in games to even make the playoffs.
it’s a matter of expectations going into the series but I can certainly empathize with the idea that losing to this years Heat team was especially painful
I begrudgingly have come around to kind of liking Duncan Robinson. Didn't know he was born in Maine (so, now I kinda have to root for him a little), but every time I see him interviewed lately, he's a real smart, humble, thoughtful guy.
View: https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/1666486650556370944?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/1666486650556370944?s=20
I guess? I mean, I'm obviously not the only one who read it differently...but at best how you framed it ("the Miami Heat exist for one and only one reason, and that reason is to suck all the joy and happiness out of sports and the fan experience" -- nothing there specific to the experience of a sports fan of the opposing team as opposed to just the average sports fan) and what you quoted give a very different impression (again, it doesn't say it's "horrifying" to Nuggets fans, he seems to be saying its horrifying to all fans unless they follow the Heat) give a very different impression. At worst, sure can be read as saying its objectively horrifying. I don't have access to Joe's full post as not a subscriber, so I assume with greater context your reading is correct.
My feelings on losing to the Heat were encapsulated by a play at the end of (I think) game 2 against the Celtics-- Miami had the ball late, critical possession, game in the balance, Gabe Vincent with the ball, guarded by Tatum. Instead of passing off or even taking a guarded 3, he sizes up Tatum and decides he will take him 1 on 1. He drives, fakes Tatum out of his jock, and scores a back-breaking bucket.
If it had been Giannis or Curry or even Butler doing that, it still would have sucked, but the fact that it was Gabe Vincent gave it a big extra bite of "What the hell is even happening here?!?! Is this even real?!"
You have to give Vincent a ton of credit for making a great play and for having the guts to even try it. But it burned even more because it was him, a UDFA (as was repeated 10 million times by the announcers) doing it to Tatum.
It seems like the Heat keep doing things like that (and also hitting killer 3s when they haven't been a good 3-point shooting team during the season) again and again, in every series. And they way they are doing it is crazy too-- they are eliminating really god teams by playing a zone defense. A zone, in the NBA! And by making every game a slog as much as they can, with plenty of flops thrown in too.
It must be amazing and incredible if you are a Heat fan. They refuse to die, and keep proving that they are smarter and guttier than the heavily favored teams they keep exsanguinating. But if you can't stand them, it's awful to watch-- at least it has been for me.
Edit:
Watching them keep doing this turns me into this guy, and I don't like it:
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Someone should check the ball inflation. And also check whether Miami coaches are filming Denver's defensive signals coming from the bench.
I get what people are saying. I think it's all just about how we think about the season ending with the less than a championship, which happens almost every year and is never great. Everyone thinks about it a bit differently. I acknowledge that something I can't quite put my finger on will make me feel better about things if Denver wins the series. But at the same time, I respect the crap out of the Heat and they have shown enough to me so far for me to admit that whatever their seed going into the playoffs, they are somehow more than the sum of their parts and have found lightening in the bottle. That doesn't happen so much in the NBA, but it's kind of a familiar story in the NCAA tournament so I see it as sort of similar.My feelings on losing to the Heat were encapsulated by a play at the end of (I think) game 2 against the Celtics-- Miami had the ball late, critical possession, game in the balance, Gabe Vincent with the ball, guarded by Tatum. Instead of passing off or even taking a guarded 3, he sizes up Tatum and decides he will take him 1 on 1. He drives, fakes Tatum out of his jock, and scores a back-breaking bucket.
If it had been Giannis or Curry or even Butler doing that, it still would have sucked, but the fact that it was Gabe Vincent gave it a big extra bite of "What the hell is even happening here?!?! Is this even real?!"
You have to give Vincent a ton of credit for making a great play and for having the guts to even try it. But it burned even more because it was him, a UDFA (as was repeated 10 million times by the announcers) doing it to Tatum.
It seems like the Heat keep doing things like that (and also hitting killer 3s when they haven't been a good 3-point shooting team during the season) again and again, in every series. And they way they are doing it is crazy too-- they are eliminating really god teams by playing a zone defense. A zone, in the NBA! And by making every game a slog as much as they can, with plenty of flops thrown in too.
It must be amazing and incredible if you are a Heat fan. They refuse to die, and keep proving that they are smarter and guttier than the heavily favored teams they keep exsanguinating. But if you can't stand them, it's awful to watch-- at least it has been for me.
Edit:
Watching them keep doing this turns me into this guy, and I don't like it:
I will admit to thinking it, but couldn't quite bring myself to say out loud (or write). The Heat are infuriating, but my respect for them has only grown over the past few weeks.
Game 2 was a fun game to watch as a neutral fan. Heat got up early, Denver battled back and seemed to take control, leading by close to 20 at one point I think. But the Heat just don't quit. Many other teams can't muster whatever it is they can muster, and just figure "we'll get 'em next game", but not these guys.
I don't know if I was misunderstanding or not but when he says "they can't shoot at all" and "slow the game to a crawl" I lol'd and clicked out of it.
What an awful call---are you even watching the play, or just reacting to the flop? Just embarassing.
Another shitty call benefitting Miami--- a team who, given good officiating, would already be gone.
If the NBA reviewed flops and assessed technicals via NBA review after games, Miami would not be able to field a team by this point in the playoffs---they all would be on technical-driven suspensions.
It's such a joke they get away with it so often.
The NBA risks being soccer if they don't get better at this. Miami has taken it to an art form and the league has not only failed to deal with it, their cast of shitty, "maybe they have money on the game" officials keeps buying in.
It's such a joke they get away with it so often.
The NBA risks being soccer if they don't get better at this. Miami has taken it to an art form and the league has not only failed to deal with it, their cast of shitty, "maybe they have money on the game" officials keeps buying in.
The replay showed it was a clear foul when he swiped down on his upper back. Embellishment, sure. Did you think that wasn't an easy call though?
It showed no such thing---watch it again on a better TV! If there was any contact at all it was the definition of minimal. And in no way caused him to fall.
I thought live, and was confirmed very clearly on replay, that was a no-call. It is literally a closer question whether Vincent should get a T for unsportsmanlike conduct for the obvious dive than that there was ANY basis to call a foul there. It was not remotely close to a foul.
That’s what hilarious to me about “Heat Culture” and why I fucking despise that team. They talk like these ultra tough guys but so much of what they do is tied into theatrics. Spo has mentioned the military at least twice in post game press conferences to show how tough they are. This would be like the NAVY Seals talking about how tough they are and how they cant be killed…and then finding out that playing dead is a huge part of their training and strategy
I hate the Heat grifting and diving bs....and Riley has been coaching that stuff for 30 years. I wish the NBA did better with that, and I wish opposing players were more aggressive in pointing it out and knocking Lowry/Butler etc. around for doing it.
But I have to give credit to the rest of what they do---they play smart, they play together, they are consistent, they play hard, they execute. They are, as someone here noted at some point in playoffs, the NBA version of the dynasty Pats---a team you think (correctly) isn't as talented as you are who still does so many things right, and is so smart and flexible in how they game plan, that they usually win. They are the best-coached good team in the sport, and they just outwork and outexecute you beyond that. I have to respect all that even if I want them to lose.
If the Celtics played like the Heat in terms of focus, intensity, consistency they'd be en route to back-to-back titles...
But I have to give credit to the rest of what they do---they play smart, they play together, they are consistent, they play hard, they execute. They are, as someone here noted at some point in playoffs, the NBA version of the dynasty Pats---a team you think (correctly) isn't as talented as you are who still does so many things right, and is so smart and flexible in how they game plan, that they usually win. They are the best-coached good team in the sport, and they just outwork and outexecute you beyond that. I have to respect all that even if I want them to lose.
If the Celtics played like the Heat in terms of focus, intensity, consistency they'd be en route to back-to-back titles...
