No Wiseman has the power

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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This ruling has been placed on hold, Wiseman is playing tonight.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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NCAA is trash.
I've been a hardcore college hoops fan for 40yrs, and the NCAA hypocrisy just keeps getting worse by the year.

Hopefully, the NBA puts more capital into the G-League and just opens up the gates to the top recruits. The NBPA should share the wealth with more kids trying to make it
 

Jimbodandy

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I've been a hardcore college hoops fan for 40yrs, and the NCAA hypocrisy just keeps getting worse by the year.

Hopefully, the NBA puts more capital into the G-League and just opens up the gates to the top recruits. The NBPA should share the wealth with more kids trying to make it
This is such an ass reaction on their part to the pay for play wave hitting the mainstream. Totally fucking tone deaf.

Yeah moving a kid's parents nearby is the same as buying him a Land Rover.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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Wiseman won’t be in the 2021 pool. He’s getting drafted next spring.
 

Big John

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He could go to Europe, make some $$, and still be a top 3 pick. But I think the NCAA caves on hardship grounds. This was not under-the-table booster money.
 

JCizzle

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Dec 11, 2006
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This sucks, I was looking forward to seeing him play. The NCAA is dumb.
 

RedOctober3829

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I think the NCAA is in the right here. The reason he was considered a booster at the time is because he gave $1 million to the athletic department which it used to build the Penny Hardaway Memphis HOF. It's naive to think that Penny paying for his family's moving expenses didn't have a part in him choosing to play in college for him as well. Wiseman was not seriously considering Memphis before Penny took over either.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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I think the NCAA is in the right here. The reason he was considered a booster at the time is because he gave $1 million to the athletic department which it used to build the Penny Hardaway Memphis HOF. It's naive to think that Penny paying for his family's moving expenses didn't have a part in him choosing to play in college for him as well. Wiseman was not seriously considering Memphis before Penny took over either.
The NCAA makes a lot of senseless decisions but like you say......this isn’t one of them. This is a pretty cut and dry case with Hardaway clearly falling under the “booster” category.
 

benhogan

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He could go to Europe, make some $$, and still be a top 3 pick. But I think the NCAA caves on hardship grounds. This was not under-the-table booster money.
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie...
oi, oi, oi...

He should join LaMelo Ball and RJ Hampton in the NBL
 

Big John

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Dec 9, 2016
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I understand that Wiseman could go overseas but suppose he wanted to play in the G-League. How would that work? Would he be an undrafted free agent able to sign with any G-League team? Could he continue to attend his college classes while playing in the G-League, e.g. for the Memphis Hustle, which plays its home games in a suburb of Memphis?
 

TripleOT

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Jul 4, 2007
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Or just go the Mitchell Robinson route and not play. It doesn't help his draft stock if he plays in Australia and puts up 5 and 5 per game, looking lost on defense.
 

benhogan

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Or just go the Mitchell Robinson route and not play. It doesn't help his draft stock if he plays in Australia and puts up 5 and 5 per game, looking lost on defense.
The Mitchell Robinson route did nothing for his draft stock

He goes to Oz if he wants to compete against the other potential lottery picks
 

TripleOT

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The Mitchell Robinson route did nothing for his draft stock

He goes to Oz if he wants to compete against the other potential lottery picks

It certainly didn't, but him doing well might make at least one GM think "We should have taken him in the first despite him sitting out college, and pull the trigger high on Wiseman. If this kid goes down under and can get on the court for only 10 mpg and goes for 4 and 4 without any display of a shooting game, isn't that going to expose him?
 

benhogan

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It certainly didn't, but him doing well might make at least one GM think "We should have taken him in the first despite him sitting out college, and pull the trigger high on Wiseman. If this kid goes down under and can get on the court for only 10 mpg and goes for 4 and 4 without any display of a shooting game, isn't that going to expose him?
Yes, if he plays like crap in OZ and gets exposed then he'll drop since a 7' with no skills are becoming an endangered species in the modern NBA.

BUT I'd assume Wiseman believes in his ability, likes to play and wants to show the world he is the most enticing prospect in the world. The talent at the NBL should not scare him off.

If I was an NBA GM I'd be concerned if Wiseman sat/had the fear to compete just to ensure his lottery pick money. I can think of a past top pick that has been accused of making up an injury at college to ensure their draft stock
 

InstaFace

He's no Nathan Hale
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Would've been 6 games and $5000 but he didn't grease the right palms.

Seriously though, "you had so little money you needed your coach to pay for your family to move to the area so you could go to college... so, we need you to come up with eleven grand that you almost certainly shouldn't have on hand in the first place".

I love these outlandish fines. They're not professional athletes! We can't pay them! We just expect to fine them huge amounts of money as if they were drawing an NBA salary!
 

chilidawg

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Yes, if he plays like crap in OZ and gets exposed then he'll drop since a 7' with no skills are becoming an endangered species in the modern NBA.

BUT I'd assume Wiseman believes in his ability, likes to play and wants to show the world he is the most enticing prospect in the world. The talent at the NBL should not scare him off.

If I was an NBA GM I'd be concerned if Wiseman sat/had the fear to compete just to ensure his lottery pick money. I can think of a past top pick that has been accused of making up an injury at college to ensure their draft stock
If he's concerned he might not look good in Australia he probably has no business in the NBA.
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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NCAA with a fucked up resolution. Suspended 12 games and he can come back if he pays $11,500 to a charity of his choice. Please burn this organization to the ground.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/memphis-star-james-wiseman-suspended-12-games-for-ncaa-violation-charitable-donation-among-punishment/amp/
They must know that $11,500 would be coming right out of the under-the-table payments that all big time recruits get, right?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
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The family needed money to move, but they can totally pay this fine.
 

InstaFace

He's no Nathan Hale
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Sep 27, 2016
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The family needed money to move, but they can totally pay this fine.
Hey now, it's not a fine. It's a voluntary agreement to contribute that much to charity. As a result of that totally voluntary contribution, the NCAA will totally voluntarily - definitely not transactionally - allow James Wiseman to play the important and money-making parts of his sole season for Memphis.

Just a bunch of generous people being generous. Nothin' but generosity to see here.
 

RetractableRoof

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So, the issue for me is that the money for moving didn't come from Hardaway when he was a representative of Memphis - he was a coach of the kid at the time. The money was provided in 2017 when there wasn't even an inkling either would be at Memphis. Wiseman's family needed money to move, they should have vetted anyone that offered to help by asking if they've ever donated enough money to a college to be considered a booster and then decline the help? This decision by the NCAA is ridiculous.
 

Captaincoop

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So, the issue for me is that the money for moving didn't come from Hardaway when he was a representative of Memphis - he was a coach of the kid at the time. The money was provided in 2017 when there wasn't even an inkling either would be at Memphis. Wiseman's family needed money to move, they should have vetted anyone that offered to help by asking if they've ever donated enough money to a college to be considered a booster and then decline the help? This decision by the NCAA is ridiculous.
You don't think Hardaway should have thought to say something when he subsequently took the head coaching position at Memphis and then recruited the kid to be his star player there?
 

sezwho

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Jul 20, 2005
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Any time young talent loses out on money and/or opportunity for monetizing that talent in a way not beneficial to a bunch of pieces of shot they will never meet (ncaa) I’m sad. That’s happened now.
 

RetractableRoof

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You don't think Hardaway should have thought to say something when he subsequently took the head coaching position at Memphis and then recruited the kid to be his star player there?
Then you sanction Hardaway for not talking/reporting to his compliance office, not the kid. If the kid goes to any other university, there is no issue. Because he chose to go to Memphis with a coach who he knows cares about his and his families well being (demonstrated when the coach had nothing to gain personally), he gets punished? Disgusting.
 

Captaincoop

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Then you sanction Hardaway for not talking/reporting to his compliance office, not the kid. If the kid goes to any other university, there is no issue. Because he chose to go to Memphis with a coach who he knows cares about his and his families well being (demonstrated when the coach had nothing to gain personally), he gets punished? Disgusting.
We may not like the rule, but it's been this way for a long time and other schools and kids have been held accountable similarly.

The fact that it wasn't dealt with until now means that Hardaway and Wiseman both failed to tell the NCAA Eligibility Center and the Memphis compliance staff about the issue for a long time and tried to slide by on it. If this had been addressed in advance, they probably could have worked it out much more favorably.

I know the Twitter outrage machine has spoken, but as usual it's missing tons of key details.
 

InstaFace

He's no Nathan Hale
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saying "but it's the NCAA's rule!" falls on deaf ears these days. The point is that the NCAA's rules are stupid, and their enforcement of them arbitrary and capricious, but always bent towards whatever will make them the most money.

Let's try this: what rule did they follow in resolving this dispute by having Wiseman contribute $11k that he perhaps doesn't, and probably shouldn't, have, to some random charity, and then serve a 12-game suspension?

Spoiler alert: there ain't no such rule. They're making it up as they go along, because nobody can hold them accountable or make them be consistent.
 

RetractableRoof

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We may not like the rule, but it's been this way for a long time and other schools and kids have been held accountable similarly.

The fact that it wasn't dealt with until now means that Hardaway and Wiseman both failed to tell the NCAA Eligibility Center and the Memphis compliance staff about the issue for a long time and tried to slide by on it. If this had been addressed in advance, they probably could have worked it out much more favorably.

I know the Twitter outrage machine has spoken, but as usual it's missing tons of key details.
Isn't one of those details the fact that Wiseman didn't know Hardaway had helped the family? If so, how was HE supposed to self report? Seems to me the onus is always on the coach to know the rules. Stop punishing the kids (12 games?) based on some regulation no 18 year old need be aware of.

The guilty-ish party here is new head coach Hardaway - for seemingly not being conversant about the rules fast enough to keep his player(s) out of trouble.

The draconian NCAA rules show absolutely no genuine interest in the well being of the student athletes.
 

Captaincoop

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saying "but it's the NCAA's rule!" falls on deaf ears these days. The point is that the NCAA's rules are stupid, and their enforcement of them arbitrary and capricious, but always bent towards whatever will make them the most money.

Let's try this: what rule did they follow in resolving this dispute by having Wiseman contribute $11k that he perhaps doesn't, and probably shouldn't, have, to some random charity, and then serve a 12-game suspension?

Spoiler alert: there ain't no such rule. They're making it up as they go along, because nobody can hold them accountable or make them be consistent.
You're completely wrong. This is exactly how they have always resolved cases like this. I've personally worked on several. I don't love the rules, but they are well established, and Memphis is responsible for educating its coaches about them and for following them.

And incidentally, this kid will never pay anything close to $11k back. He will agree to a four-year monthly payment plan to restore his eligibility, make payments in December, January, and February, then turn pro and become a millionaire.
 

InstaFace

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Could you point us towards some similar cases resolved similarly? I'm willing to be wrong on this one, God knows we're not short of valid things to criticize the NCAA for.