NFL: News and transactions

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,079
I mean, the other way to look at that is the team was paying Seikaly millions of dollars to try and win a championship, and he was failing every year.
Oh, I wasn’t posting this to debate the merits of his argument, I just think it is a beautifully told yarn. I’m sure it is embellished.
 

BunnzMcGinty

lurker
Jul 17, 2011
236
Right. I get that. I just thought that if (and we know this isn't allowed, so it's a hypothetical) a player switched teams, that the new team would start paying him right away for games he's playing in for THEIR team.
I see what you’re getting at, but the player contracts and payroll work based on league weeks, essentially. This is week 6. You can only play once and get paid once in week 6.
 

Spelunker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
8,062
Right. I get that. I just thought that if (and we know this isn't allowed, so it's a hypothetical) a player switched teams, that the new team would start paying him right away for games he's playing in for THEIR team.
You're not paid by the game. You're paid by the week.

Edit: and to be more specific, it's not even weeks of the season. They're now paid over 36 weeks.

It's just a weekly paycheck, over that period. Games don't matter.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,602
Dallas
Caleb Farley tore his ACL. Titans went really risky in the 1st round and have come up short this year.
Yeah but to be fair the risk with Caleb Farley was his back and his other knee. He tore the other ACL. Sometimes you get a Jeffery Simmons or a Harold Landry and other times you bust. Or Patriots edition sometimes you get a Gronk and other times you get a Ras-I Dowling.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,515
Trade Tua knowing that you’re punting on this year anyway and force the NFL’s hand/make any league suspension happen this year with the plan being all systems go in 2022?
/
I guess, but what are you getting back from Tua? A 3rd? maybe a 2nd? And you're shelling out multiple 1sts and 2nds for a guy who might never play for you.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
50,817
deep inside Guido territory
Of course the Dolphins should do this deal. Tua isn't leading you anywhere and there's no quality QB's in this year's draft. If you know the league's stance on Watson and are confident you can deal with the ramifications, go get him.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
8,104
Duval
/
I guess, but what are you getting back from Tua? A 3rd? maybe a 2nd? And you're shelling out multiple 1sts and 2nds for a guy who might never play for you.
I’m not saying it makes sense or is wise, but maybe they’ve gotten some type of word from Park Ave. what a league punishment would be if there’s a settlement, charges are dropped, etc. for all the possible endgames?
Talk about a franchise altering move. Either they’d be geniuses or complete idiots. No in between there…
 

Average Game James

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,735
Couldn't the trade just include conditional picks to help offset suspension risk for Miami? Basically, three second rounders in each of the next three drafts that can become firsts based on games on the active roster or snaps played?

Edit: I'm not sure if there could be a specific provision for a suspension or if Houston would be taking injury risk in accepting conditional picks based on playing time. But I can't imagine Miami paying full freight while also fully accepting the risk Watson is suspended for an extended period, so something conditional seems like Houston's best chance to maximize its return.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,515
Of course the Dolphins should do this deal. Tua isn't leading you anywhere and there's no quality QB's in this year's draft. If you know the league's stance on Watson and are confident you can deal with the ramifications, go get him.
I mean.. the league's stance matters a lot less than the pretty good chance he's going to trial on criminal charges once the grand jury wraps up. I doubt the League has any idea what they'll do, because they don't know what they're dealing with... is he going to trial? Is he gonna plead?
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
50,333
I came around too late for the squish the fish era so I never really got the Dolphins hate as they’ve been mostly hapless. This will be a good reason to actually detest a division rival, so I guess that’s nice, but it’s absolutely disgusting they’d trade for Watson and a very clear indicator that talent excuses even the worst behavior.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
50,817
deep inside Guido territory
I mean.. the league's stance matters a lot less than the pretty good chance he's going to trial on criminal charges once the grand jury wraps up. I doubt the League has any idea what they'll do, because they don't know what they're dealing with... is he going to trial? Is he gonna plead?
And is there even going to be a trial or any actual criminal charges that come from this at all? If a trade is going to happen, there will be conditions. The Dolphins aren't going to give up like 3 first rounders without attaching conditions based on the outcome of his legal stuff.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,515
And is there even going to be a trial or any actual criminal charges that come from this at all? If a trade is going to happen, there will be conditions. The Dolphins aren't going to give up like 3 first rounders without attaching conditions based on the outcome of his legal stuff.
No way to know for sure, but you empanel a grand jury like they did the odds are pretty good you're going to file criminal charges (unless it's a cop then it's just for show).
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
13,335
New York City
No way to know for sure, but you empanel a grand jury like they did the odds are pretty good you're going to file criminal charges (unless it's a cop then it's just for show).
I'm far less certain of that than you are. There may be a please, but I suspect he never spends a day in jail.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,973
Reasonable people can disagree on the degree to which pro athletes should lose their job as a result of off-field stuff. But the fact that switching teams seems to make it go away (Aroldis Chapman, Kareem Hunt, Antonio Brown,, and now Watson perhaps) is messed up.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,515
I'm far less certain of that than you are. There may be a please, but I suspect he never spends a day in jail.
Oh good chance he doesn't, just saying that the rate at which Grand Juries recommend prosecution is... real high. He's famous so that might knock it down some, but I'd still be quite worried that charges will be filed if I were a team looking at him.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
13,335
New York City
Oh good chance he doesn't, just saying that the rate at which Grand Juries recommend prosecution is... real high. He's famous so that might knock it down some, but I'd still be quite worried that charges will be filed if I were a team looking at him.
I think there's a real chance that this is like a police case in that you have to appear to do something, poltiically, you don't want to just go and arrest the guy, so you get a grand jury but don't actually push the grand jury to indict.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
3,316
Trading for a guy accused of what he's accused of shouldn't lead to an "of course".
I just felt this should be repeated.


As for the likelihood of a deal, we've heard this before. I'll wait for some credible non Houston based reports.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
The Dolphins should get absolutely roasted if they do this deal. "He's a predator and probably a rapist, but man he's good and the NFL is so bad at this discipline thing, he's worth a flier!"

This guy is a predator and should not play another game in the league (though obviously I am not holding my breath). Fucking sports sometimes.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
14,780
Sounds like he should be in prison for a long time if any of the accusations are true.

But assuming he does NOT end up in prison, and he shouldn't play anymore in the NFL, what job *should* he have?

(this must not be construed in any way as any sort of apologetic for Watson...I'm genuinely curious to know what people think about this)
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
Sounds like he should be in prison for a long time if any of the accusations are true.

But assuming he does NOT end up in prison, and he shouldn't play anymore in the NFL, what job *should* he have?

(this must not be construed in any way as any sort of apologetic for Watson...I'm genuinely curious to know what people think about this)
He's already made enough money in his NFL career that he doesn't have to work for the rest of his life. I can't imagine worrying about this for one second given the levels of incarceration we have in this country, and how difficult it is for people released from prison to re-join society, particularly non-violent drug offenders. If he feels like he wants to keep himself busy post-NFL, there are plenty of volunteer organizations that he might put his time into to try to rehabilitate his character.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,635
Burrillville, RI
I know opinions on our local sports radio are mixed at best but let me tell you... I had to work late last night and got in my car at 1:00 a.m. At that time 98.5 syndicates a national show. These 2 hosts were talking about the "trade" like it already happened. My ride is ~15 minutes and not once did they talk about it being a rumor, etc. They spent a lot of that time talking about Tua's next steps and how he should now demand a trade and sit out until they trade him.
Needless to say, when i got home and logged on here to see that it was just kind of more of the same, i was perplexed at what i had listened to!
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
14,780
He's already made enough money in his NFL career that he doesn't have to work for the rest of his life. I can't imagine worrying about this for one second given the levels of incarceration we have in this country, and how difficult it is for people released from prison to re-join society, particularly non-violent drug offenders. If he feels like he wants to keep himself busy post-NFL, there are plenty of volunteer organizations that he might put his time into to try to rehabilitate his character.
So in your view he should not hold any job then? (forget the money...that's none of your or my business how much money he has and how much is "enough" and such)
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
So in your view he should not hold any job then? (forget the money...that's none of your or my business how much money he has and how much is "enough" and such)
No he can work at a McDonalds or do a landscaping job or whatever other place will have him. Or he can go back to school and finish his degree and pursue a career in whatever industry will accept him given the accusations. I'm not going to worry about him not being able to play in the NFL anymore if that comes to pass. I can't imagine the pain of his victims watching him get to resume his NFL career as if nothing ever happened. He can go do something low profile where he's not on TV reminding those poor women of what he did.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,079
Sounds like he should be in prison for a long time if any of the accusations are true.

But assuming he does NOT end up in prison, and he shouldn't play anymore in the NFL, what job *should* he have?

(this must not be construed in any way as any sort of apologetic for Watson...I'm genuinely curious to know what people think about this)

I struggle with this question.
 

lostjumper

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 27, 2009
1,257
Concord, NH
He's already made enough money in his NFL career that he doesn't have to work for the rest of his life.
You seem unfamiliar with how much money professional athletes spend. While Watson has made millions, he has assuredly also spent millions as well. It's sad how many athletes are broke within a few years of retirement.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
You seem unfamiliar with how much money professional athletes spend. While Watson has made millions, he has assuredly also spent millions as well. It's sad how many athletes are broke within a few years of retirement.
No, I get it. I just don't understand worrying about what DeShaun Watson is going to do if he's not allowed to play in the NFL anymore.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,515
Sounds like he should be in prison for a long time if any of the accusations are true.

But assuming he does NOT end up in prison, and he shouldn't play anymore in the NFL, what job *should* he have?

(this must not be construed in any way as any sort of apologetic for Watson...I'm genuinely curious to know what people think about this)
ANy job he chooses, with the knowledge that based on his civil suits any company that has to worry about PR, deals with children or has female employees may well refuse to employ him as the NFL does in that case because of his history of sexual abuse allegations.
 

lostjumper

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 27, 2009
1,257
Concord, NH
No, I get it. I just don't understand worrying about what DeShaun Watson is going to do if he's not allowed to play in the NFL anymore.
I don't care if Watson ever makes another dime. Just saying that your statement that he's earned enough money to live the rest of his life on is possibly wrong.

I hope Watson is charged with multiple counts of sexual assault and spends years in prison. But currently, not a single charge has been filed against him. If none ever are, I don't see how the NFL can ban him from working. I mean, one of their organizations was trafficking women! They are trying everything possible to keep that story forgotten so they don't have to punish Snyder and the WFT organization. The NFLPA would have a field day with that if the NFL bans Watson.

It's why Watson isn't on the commissioners list. I don't think they dare touch it until charges are filed.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
I don't care if Watson ever makes another dime. Just saying that your statement that he's earned enough money to live the rest of his life on is possibly wrong.

I hope Watson is charged with multiple counts of sexual assault and spends years in prison. But currently, not a single charge has been filed against him. If none ever are, I don't see how the NFL can ban him from working. I mean, one of their organizations was trafficking women! They are trying everything possible to keep that story forgotten so they don't have to punish Snyder and the WFT organization. The NFLPA would have a field day with that if the NFL bans Watson.

It's why Watson isn't on the commissioners list. I don't think they dare touch it until charges are filed.
No my statement was correct, he's earned enough money to live the rest of his life without ever working again. Whether he has enough of what he's earned left to actually do so is unknown, but I get the point.

Anyway, I agree with you that unless he goes to jail I don't think the NFL should or could ban him for life. In an ideal world he'd be as toxic (actually way more toxic) as Kaepernick and no team would want him so a ban wouldn't be necessary, but I hold out no hope of that actually happening because he's a much better player than Kaep so that will override his transgressions.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
Apr 3, 2001
41,782
Mtigawi
No he can work at a McDonalds or do a landscaping job or whatever other place will have him. Or he can go back to school and finish his degree and pursue a career in whatever industry will accept him given the accusations. I'm not going to worry about him not being able to play in the NFL anymore if that comes to pass. I can't imagine the pain of his victims watching him get to resume his NFL career as if nothing ever happened. He can go do something low profile where he's not on TV reminding those poor women of what he did.
Not that it is germane, but Watson did finish his degree in the three years that he was in school. Granted, I think it's in Communications.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,079
I don't want to be police, but is this discussion better in the dedicated Watson thread? Seems like it could take over the wire service aspect this thread seemed to be serving.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
16,829
No my statement was correct, he's earned enough money to live the rest of his life without ever working again. Whether he has enough of what he's earned left to actually do so is unknown, but I get the point.

Anyway, I agree with you that unless he goes to jail I don't think the NFL should or could ban him for life. In an ideal world he'd be as toxic (actually way more toxic) as Kaepernick and no team would want him so a ban wouldn't be necessary, but I hold out no hope of that actually happening because he's a much better player than Kaep so that will override his transgressions.
The thing is if Kaep was as good as Watson, he would have never been blackballed out of the league. Unfortunately Watson is likely to get another chance if he isn't convicted of anything because he has a talent that is in incredible short supply.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,826
Westwood MA
The thing is if Kaep was as good as Watson, he would have never been blackballed out of the league. Unfortunately Watson is likely to get another chance if he isn't convicted of anything because he has a talent that is in incredible short supply.
I don't know why more people don't understand this.

Him being blackballed has nothing to do with his political/social views but everything to do with he's not very good at football.

If he was still good at football, regardless of what he does or says off the field, he'd be employed.

See Vick, Michael.
 

Oil Can Dan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2003
7,095
0-3 to 4-3
I don't know why more people don't understand this.

Him being blackballed has nothing to do with his political/social views but everything to do with he's not very good at football.

If he was still good at football, regardless of what he does or says off the field, he'd be employed.

See Vick, Michael.
Vick 'paid his price to society' by spending time in prison for his crimes, and then was allowed back into the league. Are you saying that Vick should have been blackballed even after that?
 

TFisNEXT

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
11,638
I don't know why more people don't understand this.

Him being blackballed has nothing to do with his political/social views but everything to do with he's not very good at football.

If he was still good at football, regardless of what he does or says off the field, he'd be employed.

See Vick, Michael.
Kaepernick was good enough to stay in the league as a backup. Now whether he was willing to do that is a point of contention I’ve seen in the debate. Some of those “anonymous” team sources claim that his camp made it clear he didn’t want to sign as a backup...but that’s been disputed too.

I agree he was a pretty shitty QB as a starter by the time he left SF.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
7,835
Needham, MA
I don't know why more people don't understand this.

Him being blackballed has nothing to do with his political/social views but everything to do with he's not very good at football.

If he was still good at football, regardless of what he does or says off the field, he'd be employed.

See Vick, Michael.
Was Kaepernick just not good enough regardless? Or was he not good enough to overcome the kneeling? Your last paragraph suggests that his off the field stuff may have been a factor but he wasn’t good enough to overcome that (which I agree with). Your 2nd paragraph suggest the off the field stuff had nothing to do with it (which I strenuously disagree with and requires a willful disregard for the politics around football on this stuff).
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,826
Westwood MA
Vick 'paid his price to society' by spending time in prison for his crimes, and then was allowed back into the league. Are you saying that Vick should have been blackballed even after that?
No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is he was still a talented QB, so he was given a second chance, a chance he earned after paying his debt to society. He was "allowed back into the league" because he earned his way in, which was fair and correct.

If he was no longer talented and could not catch on with another team, would people have said it was because of his crimes or because he was no longer talented enough?
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,826
Westwood MA
Kaepernick was good enough to stay in the league as a backup. Now whether he was willing to do that is a point of contention I’ve seen in the debate. Some of those “anonymous” team sources claim that his camp made it clear he didn’t want to sign as a backup...but that’s been disputed too.

I agree he was a pretty shitty QB as a starter by the time he left SF.
Yes he was.

And if he wasn't, teams wouldn't have wanted him as a back up, they'd want him as a starter.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
8,826
Westwood MA
Was Kaepernick just not good enough regardless? Or was he not good enough to overcome the kneeling? Your last paragraph suggests that his off the field stuff may have been a factor but he wasn’t good enough to overcome that (which I agree with). Your 2nd paragraph suggest the off the field stuff had nothing to do with it (which I strenuously disagree with and requires a willful disregard for the politics around football on this stuff).
He wasn't good enough.

Again my point about Vick was he was still good enough to play, so he earned his way back into the league.

If he was not and he could not find a job, would people have said it was due to his crimes and no NFL team wanted to bring him in due to possible fan blowback, or would they say he wasn't good enough anymore.